I can. It is harder on my republic toon, but far from impossible. /who is your friend. On the republic side i play a healer. So when i want to do a flashpoint (for example boarding party) i first check my friend list for tanks i played in the passed. If that fail i write a polite request that i copy to clipboard. go /who and punch in vanguard 32-37 and paste the question to all valid vanguards not already in a flashpoint. repeat with shadows and guardians. Most will not answer back. Most of the people that do will be dps and not tank. Of the few tanks that respond some will be busy but there will always be one or two that also want to do the flashpoint. DPS is easier to find. I always try to set up a team of all four base classes so no drops goes to waste. No risk for that in 1.2 i guess. good luck. (This was also how you would put togehter groups in "the other mmo" if you were in a hurry - long before looking for dungeon features or if you cba at spamming general chat in the main capital city all day long)

It works for me. The resolve game mechanic is in place to prevent too many hostile abilities that cause total loss of character. Snare and Root do not prevent total loss of character (you can for example still pass the hutt ball, you can still use your abiliites and you can still use a consumable). Skills that cause a mesmerize or stun effect etc. does not work on a target that currently have resolve immunity. Snares and Roots are not affected or affect resolve. If your force/tech accuracy is low enough or if your target have high enough force/tech resistance (or even immunity) then your memerize or stun effect etc can miss (or get "resisted" which is the same thing really) even if your target does currently not have resolve immunity. Force Shroud is a good example of an ability that does this. There are other examples. To recap; Resolve work in the expected way for me. Every single time. Maybe you have different expectations on what resolve should do compared to what it actually does...?

Welcome to this thread AngryCa. However, your contribution to this thread felt a bit taken out of context to be honest. Why do you even feel the need to use this thread to reply to a post from a different, not to mentioned closed, thread...?

Agreed. But a sniper on defense can deny your opponent the luxery of mobily. Your opponenents can't force charge themselves up from the pit to a sniper as they could on another class defending your ramps or your home court. A sniper can knockdown enemies that stand at the edge ready to receive a pass to deny intercede or Pass the Huttball. He can sit up on the ledge and rain down death while the enemy ball carrier can not jet charge up to him. A stealthed operative that sneak to enemy ramps or even enemy home court create mobilty for your team. He enables your juggernaut ball carrier to intercede (or pass the ball) from the side or straight from the pit into the enemy home court. Bypassing the need and the time to navigate all the fire traps. Yet both the sniper and the operative are arguable the least mobile classes in swtor...

I think most people realize that different classes are good at moving the ball in Hutt Ball. Snipers/Gunslingers, for example, are very poor hutt ball carriers. What some people seem to miss, however, is that to win hutt ball you cannot only have a strong ball carrier (supported with sorcs that use Extriaction or operatives that use stealth at the goal line). You also need people to control the middle so you get the ball when it reset and you need people on defense. If we take the Sniper/Gunslingeris example again. This class is arguable THE best defensive class for Hutt Ball. You can not force charge them (and use them to traverse the ball). They have a very strong knockback (much stronger than SI, very hard to position yourself so you are not knocked down from the ramp). They are one of the few classes that have access to a ranged root (and root bypass resolve and it also root people that use force speed - very good tool to when you want to kill someone at the owen). They can make themselves immune to knockbacks (they win a knockback wars against sorcs that try to get into position to use Extriaction). They deal insane amount of damage. They have 35m range. I would not be supprised if there will be top ranked rated teams that will bring a sniper and use him for this purpose during hutt balls.

Here we go, again. The issue I have with your suggestion is that you refuse to disconnect it from the resolve game mechanic. The resolve game mechanic is there to prevent loss of character from hostile abilities. Extriaction is not a hostile ability. Friendly abilities, such as Extriaction, will never be affected or affect the resolve game mechanic. Nor should they. There are a lot of suggestions to nerf Extriaction that does not involve the resolve game mechanic. Including, but not limitied to, putting a debuff on the target to prevent further Extriactions for a set time period (basically your suggestion but disconnected from the resolve game mechanic - why do you think this is such a bad idea??), cast time on Extriaction so it can be interrupted, longer cooldown to reduce the overall usefullness and spammability in a full game etc. etc. This thread is full of suggestions that does not involve having a friendly ability affect or being affected by the resolve game mechanic. Extriaction is overpowered because Pass the Huttball is too hard to execute? You might be right, this might actually be one of the reasons why so many people does not use it. But if this is the problem then a solution could be to make Pass the Huttball easier to execute (or to make Extriaction harder to execute). Then again I guess that - at least top ranked rated - teams could practice and eventually learn to master the art of using Passing the Huttball just as efficient as using Extriaction.

Yes...!

Agreed. Pass the Hutt ball is probably the most overpowered ability in hutt ball, more so than Extriaction. Everyone have access to it. It has no cooldown. You can use it while rooted, snared and even while you [or your target] have resolve immunity. To be honest I wonder why not more people [ab]use it.

I don't worry about offensive abilities that cause loss of character (such as stun, grapple, mesmerize etc) also affect and are affected by resolve. I do worry when someone want to have a friendly ability (such as cleanse, heal, guard, extriaction, force speed or intercede) affect or being affected by resolve. There are other ways to nerf friendly abilities than to break the resolve game mechanic. A 30 sec debuff on the target you just used extriaction on is probably the best suggestion so far, but there is a whole list of suggestions on how to potentially nerf extriaction if you re-read the entire thread (IFF extriaction [and/or force speed] is in need of a nerf in the first place that is).

Trading Extraiction and Grapple every other 10 second or so is not really "chaining" (according to the OP as using Force Charge every 12 seconds is not "chaining" the ability). What OP is worried about is when you (or rather several people of the same class) cast the same ability back to back to "chain" the ability. Moving a target from middle to goal in less than 10 seconds with multiple Extraictions. Grapple does not cause 1000 points of resolve on its own. You can "chain" grapple a target up to 60m (which is out of range for Extraiction) before you reach immunity due to resolve.

Shieldtech Powertechs even get a talent that root the target for 3 seconds after using Grapple (without extra resolve contriubtion) so they can do this even in a PuG and even without the need for co-ordination (without filling the resolve bar). That sound as an excellent way to nerf chain casting Extriaction (IFF Extriaction is in need of a nerf).

Agreed. There are statistics that show SI being the most popular base class (a lot more so than for example the Smuggler base class which I belive is the least played atm). If a lot of players play SI then it is a fair assumption that SI will also be overrepresented in wz (and in operations and in flashpoints and even when you walk around the fleet). But there WILL be top ranked rated teams with less than 4 inquisitors and there WILL be top ranked rated teams with less than 3 sorcs. People will [eventually] realize that snipers and marauders are extra good at killing sorcs and people will [eventually] start to spam the forums with "nerf marauders!" and "nerf snipers!" (actually there are "nerf marauders!" posts already - something you didnt see just a few months ago). The FOTM population will [eventually] reroll into the "next big thing".

Grapple -> grapple + no escape > grapple -> stun

You can kill targets in void star without sacrifice yourself in a number of ways. Here are two: Your target end up slightly infront of you. If you position yourself close to the speed buff but on the very edge of the platform while your target either run between the console to extend the bridge on the other side of the gap or if your target run across the bridge - in both cases your target will land slightly off the platform and fall down and die, from full health. If you are being pushed off the bridge by a knockback you can grapple your opponent and bring him with you (but that would count as sacrifice yourself). As a shieldtech powertech you can also Jet Charge back to the bridge (but I don't think you can do both at the same time due to GCD).

Force Shroud does not break roots The darkness assassin ability to "grapple" opponents is called Force Pull. To avoid confusion you should probably call the sorc ability by its rightful name; Extrication. Or at least use "friendly pull" to differ it from "force pull" which is a grapple-like offensive ability that is affected by resolve and to which Force Shroud is a good counter against. Can you stop insulting fellow posters? Please? Is it too much to ask?

You are not alone

You don't think BioWare designed the gap like that on purpose? Interesting...

As you seem insult people in virtually every single post you make (whether you realize this or not) I would imagine that you would end up with a rather low rating. Of course Grapple can be toned down more. One suggestion to "tone down" Grapple would be that Grapple and friendly pull both put a debuff on the target to prevent the same target from being Grappled or pulled again for the duration of the debuff. And there are plenty of other ways to "tone down" Grapple. Giving it a longer cooldown. Give it a cast time that can be interrupted. Shorter range. Increased resolve contribution. Shorter duration on the Root aspect from No Escape. Of course you can chain pull someone using two powertechs (or darkness assassin(s)). - As we already established that Force Pull does not cause full resolve on its own. Other powertechs and darkness assassins (except you i guess?) used it to force pull out rebels from their base in Ilum so they could not be friendly pulled back by a sage. You can also use it in warzones to transport a target up to 60 meters in a few seconds. Please refrain from insulting your fellow posters. There we have it: someone that doesn't know how abilities ...This is not an answer to my question. A simple link would do fine. Please stop insulting your fellow posters. There was actually a reason why the question was not directed to you. I am not a game developer (for this game) so I don't have access to the ins and outs of every single game mechanic. Nor do you. BioWare did post the behind the scenes for a lot of abilities during beta, but I don't recall reading the mechanic about force speed removing the hutt ball snare effect. And, as I wrote, I am not saying he was wrong. I know that if you spec darkness as an Assassin you also get Disjunction which DO remove all snare and root effects (which could include the snare effect from the hutt ball), but I don't have access to a sorc... Reading the tooltips does not give a hint about snares or roots being removed when you activate force speed. If it do, then maybe this is an oversight by BioWare that will be fixed in a future patch (and in that case force speed will be affected by the snare from hutt ball) - or maybe it is an intended behavior in which case BioWare might want to consider altering the tooltip of the ability (and in that case it is actually indended by BioWare that the hutt ball should not cause snare during force speed). The speed buff you get from force speed IS short but very big. The speed reduction you get from carry the ball is very small compared to force speed. It is simply not very easy to tell with 100% accuracy just by using the skill if you run slightly slower or not when you have the ball. Now, having said that; I *think* force speed suppress snares (including, but not limitied too hutt ball snare), but not roots, during its duration and if you have Disjunction you also actually remove snares and roots at activation (and that force speed still suppress snares, but not roots, that hit you during its duration). Suppress in this context mean that if there is a duration left on the snare after force speed end you will still be snared (opposed to if force speed actually remove snares as you would then have normal running speed after force speed end). But again, this is what i *think*. I want to read what is actually *confirmed*. To me, "actually knowing" and "think you know" are two vastly different things. That is why I ask, again, is it confirmed? (Tested and documented with test method and results or did yellow text confirmed it) If so - can you (or preferable someone else) answer with a simple link. Thank you.

Good bye. Hello, again There are counters to this (friendly pull is not the only one btw) similar as there are counters to friendly pull. But despite the fact sorcs can pull one target out of fire / stun every minute - Grapple still often work at killing fully healed targets with the help of a hazard zone in hutt ball (and void star). The Interwebs are full of videos that showcase this over and over. And despite that there is a counter to Grapple, many still consider Grapple an I-WIN button similar that despite there are counters to friendly pull you still consider friendly pull an I-WIN button.

Yes, the difference between 200% normal movement speed (or +100% extra movement speed) and 250% normal movement speed is small. And the time window is only two seconds. The difference is so small that I would say you would have to actually test it to confirm if the snare is there or not. Actualy force speed is 250% of normal movement speed (or +150% extra movement speed). 1 * 0.5 * 2.5 = 1.25 (which is 125% of normal movement speed - or +25% extra movement speed). Still, big difference between +100% and +25%. Because the resolve game mechanic is to prevent loss of character control from hostile abilities. Friendly pull is not a hostile ability. If i like it or not have nothing to do with it. The game mechanic is not implemented to prevent friendly abilities (having resolve affect or being affected by friendly abilities WOULD be bad game design if anything). There are both ways to counter it and there are other ways to nerf friendly pull that does not break the resolve game mechanic and still prevent it from being chained on a single target. 1) There are several ways to counter at least 3 sorcs that run a head to get into position to chain cast pull at the same time. 2) Throwing the Huttball can be chained. 3) Two powertechs/darkness assassins can chain Force Pull a target up to 60m in a matter of seconds. Powertech bounty hunters and darkenss assassins can kill fully healed targets or prevent an opponent from scoring just as he was about to pass the goal line. Many people consider grapple an I-WIN button in Hutt Ball. To get the ball up from their pit with no friendly units on the ledge or in their goal area, one charge is all you need to score (or at least to get get a friendly unit up on the ramp or into their goal area so you can pass the ball and then score). Many people consider Charge an I-WIN button in Hutt Ball. If you don't want my help, fine, but please stop insulting your fellow posters. Please? BioWare will never break their resolve game mechanic. You need to think up a different suggestion. This have nothing to do with if i like being chain pulled or not. There are ways to counter teams with 3 or more sorcs. Not all top rated ranked teams will have at least 4 inquisitors where at least 3 of them are sorcs, just because there are ways to counter it.

Please refrain from insulting fellow poster, thank you.

Moving the with the ball give you slightly slower movement speed than if you dont carry the ball. Are we sure using force speed with the ball is not slightly slower than if you use force speed without the ball (is it "confirmed")? (I am not saying you are wrong, just that the movement debuff is very small and the force speed buff is very big, short but big = it is very hard to tell). Most assassin ball carriers are pvp tank specced si they break snares and roots when they activate force speed. They are, however, not immune. It is quite possible to root a sprinting assassin as he pass through the fire. You can also grapple him back into fire (unless he got white resolve, but if you play in a premade team you will not give him full resolve unless he is in a trap). Or force charge him. Or stun him. Or knock him off the ramp. (Not saying that stopping an assassin that sprint away from you is easy - but it is not impossible, either) Same as it is not really easy to stop a pvp tank juggernaut that leap to a friendly target. Leap to an enemy. Push enemy through the fire trap to reset leap. Leap again to the target he just pushed back. Intimidating roar everyone around him. Score. Or if their ball carrier dies in your pit. Your team get the ball, but a powertech pvp tank in their team grapple your ball carrier into the owen close to your home (and his grapple have an in-built 3 second root... and powertech also have access to CC if your ball carrier break the root). He get the ball and leap to a target that just spawned at the goal line. Score. I think it is safe to say that most top rated wz teams will run with one or two dedicated ball carriers. Good to see that tanks have a role in PvP for a change

Funny, there are a lot of people that consider Grapple an I-Win button for hutt ball. But I guess you don't see it that way

Humankeg, you just said you won hutt ball using pull once every 30 seconds. Now you say that using Jet Charge every 15 seconds is not a valid argument? You claim is that top rated teams will stack at a minimum 4 inquisitors of which at least 3 sorcs [because force speed and pull is overpowered]... The whole reason for your thread is t hat all top rated teams will stack half the team or more with inquisitors. Does this mean that you now think there will be top ranked teams with less than 4 inquisitors or less than 3 sorcs? Interesting... This is a fair assumption, I too think that SI will have the highest represantation (for once we agree) - but not just in Hutt Ball and not because of pull and force speed, but because of the fact that Inquisitor is the most played base class in the game and because most teams will not force you to re-roll into another class, at least not if you are very good at what you do. Since you will play in a (or "the") top ranked team (according to you) and all the top ranked teams will stack sorcs (according to you) then you could always try to put together a team composition that focus on killing sorcs (Snipers, Marauders and Assassins)... No. Can you please stop insulting your fellow posters. Thank you. I understand that. Now, can you please try to give a suggestion that disconnect resolve from friendly abilities? I gave you plenty of suggestions how to nerf Pull so it is no longer as attractive for Hutt Ball - without having it affect or be affected by resolve. Please change your suggestion to not affect resolve and I will even help you fine-tune it. The resolve game mechanic does not have anything to do with friendly abilities. Nor should it. There is not a single friendly ability in the game that affect or is affected by resolve. For a reason. Please change your suggestion so you do not break this. I gave you several suggestions how to nerf pull without involving resolve, please give them a few minutes of though. Do you belive that pull would be acceptable in the current shape if advanced prototype powertechs and egnieneer snipers was given a talent so they could spec for it? Making it 3 classes have access to the ability. Personally I don't think the ability would become less powerful, but if this is very important for you then maybe you should change your suggestion to this. Again, the main thing i do not agree with regarding your pull suggestion is that you want to break the resolve game mechanic. I have been very clear on this. Please read the and consider my suggestions. Maybe we can brainstorm up other options as well. As long as you disconnect resolve from your pull suggestion... No we have not. We established that 1) you or your team have trouble dealing with teams that stack sorcs in hutt ball. We also established that 2) you play dps powertech which is not really good at hunting sorcs high up on ramps due to force speed and knockbacks or pulling the ball carrier due to pull. We established that 3) you think all top rated teams will stack at least 4 inquisitors of which at least 3 are sorcs, making SI very dominant. And as a result of 1), 2) and 3) you think sorcs should be nerfed [a perfectly understandable point of view, but many posters in this thread does not share your point of view on the matter]. We gave you suggestions on how we deal with sorc heavy teams on our servers. If you want to take our advice or continue to explore counter tactics is up to you - but so far you mostly only replied "stop spam and stay on my topic on how to nerf pull". Shrug. To score one goal, yes. But then what? And what about my suggestion to put a debuff on the target so it can not be pulled? Or what about my suggestion that you cannot pull targets that are CC'ed (which would prevent people from pulling ball carrier out of the fire pit)? Please review my suggestions again. There are ton of ways to nerf pull without breaking the resolve game mechanic. There are examples of games that got destroyed because developers listen too much on forum posters (that in reality only represent a small % of the total player base). If developers would listen to your two suggestions then they would nerf force speed - but not nerf all the other powerful ways to move the ball, such as intercede, predation, jet charge and they would break the resolve game mechanic so it start to affect and being affected by friendly abilities. Again, please refrain from insulting your fellow posters. There are some skilled players that are good at balance games, but most skilled [young] players tunnel vision too much. Does not have an overall overview on what other abilities that also need tuning at the same time. Most players also only play one or two characters so they are more of the time only on the receiving end on the overpowered ability. I am not against you suggesting nerfs. There are other suggestions that also make it unwise or even impossible to chain pull the same target. Key is to not break what the resolve game mechanic is for (preventing loss of character from hostile abilities for more than a short period of time in a row). Friendly pull will simply never affect and be affected by the resolve mechanic. The sooner you understand this, the sooner we can work out a valid suggestion on how to change pull to balance it for hutt ball.

Agreed. I would even say that there are several abilities and talents besides Jet Charge that need nerfing if BioWare nerf Extrication... Hydraylic Overdrives comes to mind. Not that I think it is needed in the first place as there WILL be successful rated top teams that does NOT stack 3-4 inquisitors where at least 3 of them are sorcs (the whole point of the thread is moot).