1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[Sparcrypt]

I do agree - I hate the split between PvP and PvE gear.

 

The issue is finding a balance so that top tier versions of each are equally challenging to get, to prevent people from considering PvP gear 'easy mode' gear, or vice versa.

[Luochaz]

disagree with OP, keep pvp& pve seperate.. a game called rift had it soe pve gear was better for pvp and it destroyed the pvp community, forceing us to pve to get prime gear

[Crazylor]

OP I think you did it wrong.... I do both, and there is definitely time to do both in this game considering you don't have to constantly farm Operations for gear, and you can hop into pvp games anytime and start earning gear. Unless gear became harder to get I don't see what you're talking about, you're probably not doing something.

[Broom]

I am a PVPer. I only rarely do PVE, and then only to spend time with guildies and help out, not because I enjoy the whole PVE thing. But I DO value the fact that I currrently CAN help my guildies while I only have PVP gear. I seriously do not want to grind for PVE gear too, or see a rift happen in the guild when those who prefer PVP can no longer help out those who prefer PVE.

 

Honestly, why couldn't they just do the rational thing and make PVP gear and PVE gear the same? And please, no 'but then PVPers gear up too fast'... it took me a month to get my T3 pvp gear... and yesterday I met a guy who got 6 pieces of Rakata (T3 PVE, yes) in 1 night of playing.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Broom

[me_unknown]

Honestly, why couldn't they just do the rational thing and make PVP gear and PVE gear the same? And please, no 'but then PVPers gear up too fast'... it took me a month to get my T3 pvp gear... and yesterday I met a guy who got 6 pieces of Rakata (T3 PVE, yes) in 2 hardmodes.

 

because you do not want to start grinding pve gear when ever new pve content comes out to remain competitve in pvp.

 

man is it so difficult to undestand that it is the stupiest idea for pvp to NOT split pvp and pve gear?

[Broom]

because you do not want to start grinding pve gear when ever new pve content comes out to remain competitve in pvp.

 

man is it so difficult to undestand that it is the stupiest idea for pvp to NOT split pvp and pve gear?

 

I've played a lot of games, and many of them did NOT have the disctinction and did perfectly well. Also, you DO realise it's perfectly possible to add a new layer of PVP gear (different looks, same stats) when a new layer of PVE gear comes out, right?

[me_unknown]

I've played a lot of games, and many of them did NOT have the disctinction and did perfectly well. Also, you DO realise it's perfectly possible to add a new layer of PVP gear (different looks, same stats) when a new layer of PVE gear comes out, right?

 

sure. but this does exactly what i am talking: enforces again grinding for gear!

 

didn't you saw what the people are complaining about the most? imbalance in pvp due to grear difference. and you wnat to make this even bigger and not only this, you want to have it to be an endless story?

 

most pvp do not want to regrind gear every time new content comes! they want to have fair fights vs players.

hence you need a gear limit for pvp. but you cannot keep a gear limit on pvp equip and allow it be viable in pve END PVE CONTENT while the end content increases!

 

so you either will have to ALWAYS grind for better pvp equip to remain competitive in pvp, which is the contrary of a sportive competision (every sportive competition elsewhere has a gear limit!!!) or you do pve to get pve equip and pvp equip remains pvp equip.

Edited March 15, 2012 by me_unknown

[Broom]

sure. but this does exactly what i am talking: enforces again grinding for gear!

 

didn't you saw what the people are complaining about the most? imbalance in pvp due to grear difference. and you wnat to make this even bigger and not only this, you want to have it to be an endless story?

 

most pvp do not want to regrind gear every time new content comes! they want to have fair fights vs players.

hence you need a gear limit for pvp. but you cannot keep a gear limit on pvp equip and allow it be viable in pve END PVE CONTENT while the end content increases!

 

so you either will have to ALWAYS grind for better pvp equip to remain competitive in pvp, which is the contrary of a sportive competision (every sportive competition elsewhere has a gear limit!!!) or you do pve to get pve equip and pvp equip remains pvp equip.

 

Actually, I'd prefer it if there were not gear progression at all. I honestly hate the whole principle. I prefer skill to be the determining factor for PVP and PVE, not how lucky you were in getting drops, or how many hours you spent grinding gear.

[me_unknown]

Actually, I'd prefer it if there were not gear progression at all. I honestly hate the whole principle. I prefer skill to be the determining factor for PVP and PVE, not how lucky you were in getting drops, or how many hours you spent grinding gear.

 

than how can you agree with the op? what op wants is the contrary of what you seem to want.

 

but regarind gear progression in pve: there it is a must have! gear progression is one if not the most important dynamic of pve. you get new pve content which (idealy) is hard and needs tactics to master. as reward you get better gear which makes the encounter easier and lets all feel honored for their work.

 

then to retain challenges in pve there comes new pve content which has been balanced to your new gear to be difficult enough to be challenging.

 

and so on and on.

 

the rewarding with better gear is ONE of the biggest motiviation for pve for 99.99999999999% of the people.

 

but it is a pvp breaker! it is a killer for any sportive competition. hence you MUST seperate both some how!

[Gnugthreeonefive]

It's very simple. It's because of BiS issues.

 

The moment a BiS item comes from the other variant (PvP/PvE), you are "forcing" the player to do what he doesn't want to in order to optimize his performance in the variant he enjoys.

 

In order to avoid having gear from the other variant ever becoming BiS, you'll need something like a PvP only stat.

[JediDuckling]

they need to seperate PVP gear from PVE period

 

 

pvp gear is ment for pvp

 

and

 

pve gear is ment for pve

 

 

 

 

it shouldnt be that pve gear is best for pvp and pve as its rediculous.

 

or for the FOTM min maxer players that use parts or BM and RAKTA to get bonus's from each set. lol

 

 

this is not how it should be

 

 

bioware are buffing expertise to make pvp gear worth useing.

[JediDuckling]

not to mention you can craft some PVE rakta parts that can be socketed for even higher stats.

 

i mean come on

 

rata belts and bracers with 140+ to your main stat ? its rediculous

 

not to mention crafting rakta implants and earpieces socketed also then augmenting those.

 

then theres the rakta artifacts that can be socketed so you have like 75+ endurance and another +28 to your main stat from each artifact

 

 

its getting realy silly

 

 

pvp gear should have augment slots in also i think

[Scotland]

This isn't wow, cheers.

[JackBlackjack]

I agree 100% with OP.

 

They splitting the game in two pieces just like WoW did.

 

As a player I want to play all aspects of the game that suits my level/gear rating, but I dont want to have to focus on PVE or PVP, and do double work to enjoy the game.

 

Unfortunately, they are just copycating WoW.

 

And this is what is going to take me GW2. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. Not WoW with SWTOR theme.

Edited March 15, 2012 by JackBlackjack

[me_unknown]

I agree 100% with OP.

 

They splitting the game in two pieces just like WoW did.

 

As a player I want to play all aspects of the game that suits my level/gear rating, but I dont want to have to focus on PVE or PVP, and do double work to enjoy the game.

 

you do not have to do neither bouble work nor can't you enjoy both!

 

you want to enjoy pve? then go do pve.

but it seems you want to SKIP most of the pve content and jump right into the endgame pve content. this is not PVE!

 

if you enjoy pve than do pve, which means, start from the hardmodes fp and go through the story and gear up. this means PVE!

 

you are kidding yourself with that above!

 

and you will destroy pvp if what the op demands will happen!!

[ragamer]

I wholehearty disagree with the OP by a simple reasson...

 

...Item stat allocation is straightforward to do and they can do it correctly to disable "cross" gear, if they want.

 

The problem is what you need to do to get the gear...

 

...After 1.1.5 changes PvP gear is a simple loot piñata allowing any character to get all the PvP gear they need without the help of a team.

 

Meanwhile the best PvE gear requires mandatorily an Ops team.

 

Top PvP gear is got doesn't matter the result of your activity (a simple grind... Winning just speeds it up).

 

Top PvE gear is NOT got if you don't complete successfully your activity (ie you defeat the Boss).

 

 

So for as long as the rewards are gotten in the above way you can't allow top PvP gear to be remotely usefull at PvE because it will remove the needs to team up.

 

 

Obviously I like the "harsher" approach on PvE, because it encourages preparation, an stable team that trains together, and gearing up to be able to defeat a challenge (Which justifies playing a MMO for me at least)...

 

...Not just siting there buying tickets for the gear lotery like PvP is atm. Remains to be seen how ranked PvP gear is going to be introduced on 1.2... But I'm afraid it will remain the same "speed variable" grinding seasson 2+ arenas were on WoW (I left WoW before SWP hit, and obviously I lost interest in arenas rapidly after checking how S2+ removed any kind of team-based progression beyond braging rights).

 

 

Obviously I would like to get an Objective Team based progression on PvP also, not just the current weak gear "progression" you can do even AFKing on WZ... But I'm afraid the mentality of some "PvP Grinders" will systematically block any kind of effort there by BW.

Edited March 15, 2012 by ragamer

[TapSumBatt]

And who wants PvE heroes destroying your fun as a PvP player? No thanks. PvP gear was never compatible in PvE, didn't hurt being a PvP'r.

[Stovokor]

After reading that, I'd have to stress that: splitting PvP / PvE gear will IRREVERSIBLY damage this game.

 

No it won't.

 

The analogy and timeline you are providing is flawed and based on opinion. Overall subscription dropped in WoW thus impacting participation in PvP. The game was starting to show its age and Blizzard had some bad expansions.

 

 

5. Fueled by schism between PvP / PvE and exacerbated by imbalance issues, PvP participation in wow declines DRAMATICALLY over time.

Kinda obvious you are really reaching with your logic when you use the words DRAMATICALLY and over time in the same sentence.

 

Remember in vanilla and burning crusade WoW, TOP pve guilds in the world also ran the top pvp teams?

They did not have the top pvp teams.

 

If you know any names, guilds such as Nihilum and SK Gaming excelled in both pvp and pve,

Your using some pretty flimsy correlations for your examples. SK gaming sponsored Curse PvE group. LOL did you ever see anywhere in the forums at the time where players correlate Nihilum to PvP ???? They were known for World first kills. If they even had a PvP team the gear might have allowed them to go beyond the norm but even with best raid gear they did not become No.1 PvP. By your logic, this should have happened over and over cause they dominated PvE for a long time.

 

 

 

 

SWTOR

Expertise ....

There is no logic in forcing people to raid to be viable in PvP. There are many players that just want to focus all effort and time on PvP. No correlation between the PvE and PvP so it should not influence ranked warzones. Nothing stopping player's that want to immerse themselves in both PvE / PvP from doing so and collecting all armor.

[djtrav]

r

No it won't.

 

SWTOR

Expertise ....

There is no logic in forcing people to raid to be viable in PvP. There are many players that just want to focus all effort and time on PvP. No correlation between the PvE and PvP so it should not influence ranked warzones. Nothing stopping player's that want to immerse themselves in both PvE / PvP from doing so and collecting all armor.

 

ok, your right, make them both even, or you will be missing out on the bigger market, the casual gamer who enjoys both but doesnt concentrate on one or the other. Some players want to pve and pvp but lack in both because they enjoy both? So screw that market segment which makes up at least 30% of the player base? Only hardcore pve's and hardcore pvp's get gear? Screw the guy that likes to casually play both...gotcha.

[Crazylor]

Obtaining a set of each type is not hard to do at all, it may be hard and time consuming to max both out, but seriously, Operations always drop gear and you only need to do it once a week compared to other games where you farm constantly. Then pvp is also pretty easy to hop into and start working on gear, I don't see the issues here.

[Stovokor]

r

 

ok, your right, make them both even, or you will be missing out on the bigger market, the casual gamer who enjoys both but doesnt concentrate on one or the other. Some players want to pve and pvp but lack in both because they enjoy both? So screw that market segment which makes up at least 30% of the player base? Only hardcore pve's and hardcore pvp's get gear? Screw the guy that likes to casually play both...gotcha.

 

The ones concerned about this don't care about MARKET share, they are just worried about themselves

 

If a player is CASUAL and mediocre, the rewards thy receive will rightly be in line with that. However those that are casual but still display exceptional level of gameplay should have relatively little problem accruing raid gear and also good PvP gear if they choose to do so.

 

Many people identify themselves as casual but still spend plenty of time gaming. If your expecting "relaxed" gameplay to be given handouts to put them on par with people that are focused on a niche & spend way more time in game, the issue at hand is not with SWTOR but rather with MMO's as a whole.

[djtrav]

Obtaining a set of each type is not hard to do at all, it may be hard and time consuming to max both out, but seriously, Operations always drop gear and you only need to do it once a week compared to other games where you farm constantly. Then pvp is also pretty easy to hop into and start working on gear, I don't see the issues here.

 

define casual and get back to me. You spend 3-6 hours sometimes doing raids, that takes up my whole weekend of game time. WZ's take 5 minutes to queue sometimes and than 15 minutes to complete, thats 20 minutes, thats 3 an hour. If your casual you might play 2 hours a night. Define fair and causual. Some of us arent kids, work and family = casual gamer. We cant dedicate the same time but enjoy both... so yeah penalize us, and people will just wait for the next game till someone gets it right..

 

edit: my point being, i wouldnt mind seeing both pve and pvp gear equaling eachother.

Edited March 15, 2012 by djtrav

[jayfourc]

Now try taking your BM gear into 16 man nightmare mode and tell me you keep up....cause you don't.

 

No good raid leader would take you along for a 16 man nightmare if you're undergeared. Go do some normal/get carried in a few hardmodes first before you try something like that.

 

And the OP is wrong. The way things are now, with the buffs/stat penalty combination that PVP gear gives, full Rakata is on par or even better than full BM in PVP. This is because of the diminishing returns on expertise once you go over ~550. It's not that the 2 are separated by some enormous chasm. PVE can PVP at similar tiered levels, but the converse is not true. I still have a 3 pieces of Columi in my PVE set but it has ~9% more damage and 12% more HP than my PVP set (all BM for 552 expertise and then 3 pieces of Rakata).

[djtrav]

No good raid leader would take you along for a 16 man nightmare if you're undergeared. Go do some normal/get carried in a few hardmodes first before you try something like that.

 

And the OP is wrong. The way things are now, with the buffs/stat penalty combination that PVP gear gives, full Rakata is on par or even better than full BM in PVP. This is because of the diminishing returns on expertise once you go over ~550. It's not that the 2 are separated by some enormous chasm. PVE can PVP at similar tiered levels, but the converse is not true. I still have a 3 pieces of Columi in my PVE set but it has ~9% more damage and 12% more HP than my PVP set (all BM for 552 expertise and then 3 pieces of Rakata).

 

i mix rakata into my champ gear right now, unfortunately i am not a BM, rank 57.

[jayfourc]

i mix rakata into my champ gear right now, unfortunately i am not a BM, rank 57.

 

BM is not as big of an upgrade to justify all the grind complaints. The accuracy stats on BM gear (all classes) are ridiculous (bad) and BW has admitted that they screwed up with those. I swap out 3 of my BM enhancements for Sentinel Champ enhancements to stack crit/surge up to 41/72 with my rakata stim and my own smuggler buff.