1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[xmercxrayx]

I dont know if you are purposefully missing the whole point they try to make them mutually exclusive or what.

 

The best gear in the game under your rules would have to be obtained thru both exclusive pvping and pveing.

 

IMO, the best gear in the game should only be available to those that do both. Everyone else should be concerned about what they are missing from not taking on the content they have decided to punt... Perhaps PVP gear could drop stronger enhancements and PVE gear could drop your Mods and crafters could make your Armoring... this keeps all content alive and well.

 

I shouldn't have to swap my gear depending upon what part of the game I am playing today. One single streamlined expereince... it takes long enough to grind for one set of gear, let alone a different outfit for each part of the game I want to play.

 

(I also agree that you could drop PVP armor and just live in a ranking system world, but this is not how they have decided to go...)

[djtrav]

m

I don't get why you keep referring to me as a 'troll', I have a hard time believing you are a responsible adult when your comments are those of a 12 year old. You are a casual gamer who games for 5 hours a night? That's casual?

 

I like your comment though, 'doesn't take much effort'. I could say that about PvP gear after the last patch, you wouldn't have to play half that long in order to gear yourself out appropriately for PvP.

I'm pretty sure you decided to 'troll' me first but I guess via the interwebs, opinions of others that dispute your own is considered 'trolling'.

 

this is what makes you a troll. no contructive posts towards topic, you rather be personal with an individual instead of address the topic.

 

You're calling me a 12 year old., well lets take it to the personal level than, I work fulltime, I have a family, and I also take classes to further my education... there are 168 hours during a weeks time. 20-30 hours of gameplay is a drop in the bucket considering the things I do, My kids are 1-2, my wife is a stay at home mom. I was in the Marine Corps, served in 3 combat tours, 2006-2008. I am pretty good with time management, so good, I actually schedule the time I play so it doesnt interfer with my personal life. I doubt, you're half the man I am.

 

I voiced my concerns about the game, stated my reasons.

 

I have multiple characters to cater to guild needs. I play pve and pvp. I have played multiple games that dont seperate pvp and pve and they worked out just fine and actually people still play them. I enjoy swtor and probably will play it no matter what the devs do, because its that awesome of a game imo. I rather not see a difference in gear, its evens out the playing field and opens up more competition in premades and war zone rankings. Skill over gear imo.

 

edit: why does 5 hours a night have to be consecutive? and why do I have to explain to you that? Did I play straight 5 everyday? no I didnt. Grow up. I gave a general statement and I try to exagerate more than not giving the benefit of the doubt. When you shoot for a budget in a business you want a little extra incase your wrong.

Edited March 15, 2012 by djtrav

[Psylant]

The system is not only to seperate pve and pvp, its to make pvp more even... fun competitave.

 

Look at it this way, team A and team B are both equally geared, they dont hurt eachother anymore than they would do with pve gear on because they both have equal ammount of resistance and dammage increase. So, the diffrence is that Healing is increased and health is increased, so your not containtly going to 3 hit people.

 

I mean if you think thats a bad idea, the other option is to say screw it, lets increase healing by 20%.. wait no now everyone crys because pve is too easy.

 

No matter what is done people are going to cry about it. I mean i understand why people think its a bad idea.. but i dont see how they can "fix it" the way the game currently is. You'd have to completely revamp the whole combat system to fix that. It would be a totally diffrent game.

[ESTistheGAME]

resilience/expertise is the worst thing that can happen to an mmo... this is just another reason not sub for this game ever again. pvp was horrible and unbalanced as it is, this will just turn bad pvp experience into nightmare.

 

You do realize that you joined a gaming community that is only a few months old. I hate all these people who keep coming in from other games like WoW who had reasonable pvp balance after 6 YEARS this game is 3 months old they can't make everything perfect with a single patch and they are even trying to re-balance classes in 1.2 but I am sure you will be mad either way because you are probably playing one of the classes who is getting nerfed so don't let the door hit you on the way out...

[ZeketheReaper]

plz get rid of expertise. let people gear up however they want but have Item appearances still be exclusive to the activity you do. for example if people wanna pvp to get gear for pve then let em but make it take longer. I think pvp gear should just increase stats not increase damage to players only.

[Osskscosco]

plz get rid of expertise. let people gear up however they want but have Item appearances still be exclusive to the activity you do. for example if people wanna pvp to get gear for pve then let em but make it take longer. I think pvp gear should just increase stats not increase damage to players only.

 

If pvp gear has better stats then why the hell would you ever use pve gear?

 

Think about it.

[Grymmjow]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

Lol go get pve gear if you want to do both parts of the game. I have u don't hear me crying. I prefer having more then one thing to do gearing up wise. Everyone who doesn't want to work for your gear in both aspects of the game....Go back to wow.... I hear LFR lets full pvp gear people do raids... Lawls

[ESTistheGAME]

Hey, Luciela here:

 

I stopped posting in this forum for a long time. I read somewhere patch 1.2 preview that bioware will be changing (probably buffing) expertise so that PvP and PvE gears will be even more incompatible.

 

 

After reading that, I'd have to stress that: splitting PvP / PvE gear will IRREVERSIBLY damage this game.

 

 

Making PvP and PvE incompatible with each other itemwise, will also further fuel the schism between PvP and PvE community. Many players tend to focus largely on progressing in either PVP or PVE, and are unwilling to invest in the less favorable gear. (I.E. I mainly play pvp. do operation in pvp gear 'for fun')

 

PVP/PVE gear incompatibility will further cause characters to be "specialized" in PvP or PvE. Since PVE gears will perform poorly in PVP, PVEers will be discouraged from playing PVP, and vice versa. This divide will be irreversible, since most PVPers will end up hating PVE, while PVEers will end up hating PVP.

 

In long story short, you plan to force players into dividing between PVP and PVE, and only let them play "half the game".

 

 

 

 

 

Exact same thing is what happened in WoW:

 

 

Remember in vanilla and burning crusade WoW, TOP pve guilds in the world also ran the top pvp teams? If you know any names, guilds such as Nihilum and SK Gaming excelled in both pvp and pve, with arena teams in SK top 200 arena list, blizzcon, MLG, and world first kills on virtually all bosses. Today, not only is such a thing unimaginable, but also there is so much hate between PvP and PvE community. So many posts scream "shut up pvp guy" or "pve is killing pvp" - sometimes I wonder how they even tolerate playing the same game with one another.

 

 

How did this all happen? It is because of resilience (same stat as expertise in SWTOR). TIMELINE:

 

1. Vanilla WoW - complete lack of resilience. Most players participate in both pve and pvp.

 

 

2. In the burning crusade expansion, resilience is introduced. However, TBC resilience only reduced damage from DOT and criticals, and was nowhere as good as it is today. This therefore made PvP gears subpar for raiding. However, (since resilience wasn't that great), some PvE gear gave large advantage in arena, and thought by some to be "required" for competitive PVP.

 

However, even this disadvantage wasn't as big as you think. One of my high school friends and his brother who played in BG9 ran the highest rated rogue + disc priest 2v2 in the world, with ZERO PvE gear. All other rogues they faced at their ratings were loaded with pve gears and dual warglaives of azzinoth (rogue were one of the more PVE gear dependent classes in TBC)

 

 

3. In wrath of the lich king expansion, blizzard completely overhauls resilience. It is now completely impossible to play competitively using PvE gears in PvP and vice versa. WoW community [permanently] splits into PVE and PVP. Most of the PvP imbalances are largely ignored throughout the expansion ("resilience will fix it" mentality by developers).

 

 

4. Over the years, Blizzard patches mostly according to numbers generated in PvE. Results: even more class imbalance in PvP. Animosity between pvp and pve communities further increases.

 

 

5. Fueled by schism between PvP / PvE and exacerbated by imbalance issues, PvP participation in wow declines DRAMATICALLY over time.

 

If you want to see the statistics, it is as following. Note: Gladiator = assigned to top 0.5% team on ladder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will this really happen to SWTOR? WoW and SWTOR are different games - no one can predict what will happen to this game.

 

 

Right now, I wear full battlemasters gear and have no problem running hard mode operations. PvE gears are also largely useable in PvP too, as long as one has 400+ expertise. Apparently, for whatever reason bioware doesn't want that, which I guess furthers their trend of copying only the bad part of wow, while ignoring the good part in an effort to appear different :/.

 

A piece of advice from Luciela - don't make PvE and PvP gears incompatible.

 

I'm not necessarily against your idea I just have a great example of it on my server. One of the better raiding/pvp guilds behind our guild is called Serenity Now. They focus more on PvP but do occasional 8 man raids on Nightmare mode. They mostly had full BM and some Rakata/Columi know what happened? They had their full Battlemaster, and almost full Rakata so they beat the Nightmare Modes on both raids and stop playing the game. They had no reason to continue playing until the next patch comes out because they had both sets of gear. Think of if both sets were mostly the same because of what you are suggesting? I sure as heck wouldn't continue if I dominated PvP (I am only champions some rakata right now and I am better than most) and beat all content (which we have)

[uzairzaidi]

Op is stupid. PVP and PVE are separate aspects of the game. Vanilla wow pvp was PATHETIC. A high warlord guy whose only aim was pvp would get destroyed by a keyboard turning clicking pve hero because he spent the same amount of time killing dragons.

 

I think they should make pve gear completely unusable in warzones. I dont have time to do pve in this game, whatever time I get after work I put it into playing warzones and I EXPECT to be geared specifically for that.

 

So please take your crap logic and statistics somewhere else. Keep up the good work Bioware.

[QiBao]

So if I only want to PVP I should be forced to run operations to be successful? Or I should be able to get the same gear via PVP? 'Cause if I can get the same gear from PVP, that route will probably be much, much easier.

[JedixJarf]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

whajackiechan.jpg

 

Thats why you master pvp to get the top pvp armor, then master pve to get pve armor.

[Azrienov]

Disagree with OP. By keeping two sets in the game it stretches out game content. You can do JUST FINE in PvE gear in WZs. Not perhaps as well as you like, but some top damage specs say screw expertise, on with the pve damage bonuses. I'd say that so far, things aren't too bad, and that we should re-evaluate after 1.2

 

However, I did like the way your argument was presented and thought out. It has made me consider this.

[Sevvy]

Are they doing something to the stats of PvE gear that makes it useless in PvP or something?

 

I like wearing my 4-piece PvE set in PvP. o_O

[Metalmac]

Are they doing something to the stats of PvE gear that makes it useless in PvP or something?

 

I like wearing my 4-piece PvE set in PvP. o_O

 

You may like it but with low Expertise you do 10% less damage and take 10% more damage.

 

This is why people complain in the first place they are to lazy to get the PVP gear to PVP.

 

Or to lazy to get the PVE gear to do PVE.

 

If this is the case then go back to WoW please, besides they are losing players everyday.

 

This MMO is growing for a good reason, I left WoW after 6 years and you guys are the reason.

[me_unknown]

Are they doing something to the stats of PvE gear that makes it useless in PvP or something?

 

I like wearing my 4-piece PvE set in PvP. o_O

 

no, i think its planned to make expertice even more effective. so yes, your pve gear will do less damage due to expertise preventing more if your opponent has more expertise than you because he has it on every slot.

[Skylancewalker]

Personally I enjoy the pvp aspect of games alot more than pve. It has nothing to do with the gear. I occassionally dont mind running a Hardmode, but its actually just for the mats for crew skills.

[unixbomber]

whajackiechan.jpg

 

Thats why you master pvp to get the top pvp armor, then master pve to get pve armor.

 

If we're going to hand out gear for "mastering" pvp and pve in a balanced manner, rakata gear should be given out to everyone who attempts a raid. You don't have to beat a boss or anything. Just try. Hell you don't even really have to try... Just be the instance and get credit. Take the time to "master" pve like you "'master" pvp in this game.

[Alacranmex]

Op is stupid. PVP and PVE are separate aspects of the game. Vanilla wow pvp was PATHETIC. A high warlord guy whose only aim was pvp would get destroyed by a keyboard turning clicking pve hero because he spent the same amount of time killing dragons.

 

I think they should make pve gear completely unusable in warzones. I dont have time to do pve in this game, whatever time I get after work I put it into playing warzones and I EXPECT to be geared specifically for that.

 

So please take your crap logic and statistics somewhere else. Keep up the good work Bioware.

 

I completely agree. One thing I don't like is that my centurion is completely gimp for PVP compared to my Columni.

 

I will always use my highest item level gear in pvp until bioware makes some kind of change or buff to the stats taken up by expertise. Not worth losing all of the strength and endurance at the moment.

[venjinze]

m

 

this is what makes you a troll. no contructive posts towards topic, you rather be personal with an individual instead of address the topic.

 

You're calling me a 12 year old., well lets take it to the personal level than, I work fulltime, I have a family, and I also take classes to further my education... there are 168 hours during a weeks time. 20-30 hours of gameplay is a drop in the bucket considering the things I do, My kids are 1-2, my wife is a stay at home mom. I was in the Marine Corps, served in 3 combat tours, 2006-2008. I am pretty good with time management, so good, I actually schedule the time I play so it doesnt interfer with my personal life. I doubt, you're half the man I am.

 

I voiced my concerns about the game, stated my reasons.

 

I have multiple characters to cater to guild needs. I play pve and pvp. I have played multiple games that dont seperate pvp and pve and they worked out just fine and actually people still play them. I enjoy swtor and probably will play it no matter what the devs do, because its that awesome of a game imo. I rather not see a difference in gear, its evens out the playing field and opens up more competition in premades and war zone rankings. Skill over gear imo.

 

edit: why does 5 hours a night have to be consecutive? and why do I have to explain to you that? Did I play straight 5 everyday? no I didnt. Grow up. I gave a general statement and I try to exagerate more than not giving the benefit of the doubt. When you shoot for a budget in a business you want a little extra incase your wrong.

 

Lets recap:

 

You initially quoted one of my posts directed at someone else and called me a troll.

 

My posts were on topic and addressing someone elses arguement, in favor of the ops suggestion, while my comments have obviously been opposed.

 

I have nothing against you but YOU decided to make it personal. 5 hours is 5 hours, doesn't have to be consecutive.

 

I have yet to see anything constructive from you in this thread, again, your initial post was calling me a troll because you dont agree with my point of view, thats fine. It's one thing to disagree with someone but it's another to disagree with someone with no real rebuttal and just call them a 'troll'.

 

Last, you don't have to justify your life to me, there just isn't a point disclosing your life outside of the game.

 

EDIT:

 

also, my point of view isn't mine alone, there are other people on this thread that agree. I also have a guild of 40+ PvP centric players that share my outlook.

Edited March 15, 2012 by venjinze

[Cyphen]

If your plan is to remove PvP gear or rather expertise then the PvP gear would HAVE to be equivalent to top end raiding gear (BM to Nightmare that is).

 

Or increase Stamina with PvP gear but reduce Damage.

With PvE, Reduce Stamina but Increase damage or keep it the same.

 

Its too late to remove Expertise and personally, it does not bother me what so ever

[clickonce]

I don't want to do pve content. It is the same in this game as every game like it before it. I want to pvp. I like pvp because the players I face are more dynamic (most of the time) than some scripted encounter that follows the same rules every time you do it.

 

Allowing pve gear to outshine pvp gear (or even have a place in pvp) forces me to do pve to compete in pvp. I really do not want this. I can't imagine slugging through the ops and HMs over and over doing the exact same thing just to have the gear I need to be viable in pvp.

 

Sure, I play huttball over and over, but it is always different. Ops bossses are always the same. Always. It is fun a few times, then its stale, to me, anyway. I know that is a fun aspect for many, and that is great! I am glad the game has an outlet for those people's passions.

 

Mine, however, is pvp. I want to log in for a bit, pvp with all 4 of my pvp characters, do the dailies, see who is playing, and crush some skulls (or get crushed, depending on who I am facing).

 

The day I have to trudge through Ops every week to be able to compete in pvp is the day I hang it up.

 

Agree 100%.

[Fajing]

1. Remove expertise

2. Remove PvP gear too (or make it purely cosmetic)

3. Normalize stats in PvP

 

Raiders are happy because noone can bring PvP gear to a raid because there is none.

PvPers are happy because so what if someone brings raid gear to PvP - it has no effect.

 

The only people who aren't happy are gear grinders who pretend to like PvP.

[venjinze]

1. Remove expertise

2. Remove PvP gear too (or make it purely cosmetic)

3. Normalize stats in PvP

 

Raiders are happy because noone can bring PvP gear to a raid because there is none.

PvPers are happy because so what if someone brings raid gear to PvP - it has no effect.

 

The only people who aren't happy are gear grinders who pretend to like PvP.

 

So since I don't enjoy PvE, I basically have to roll around in green and orange gear with blue mods while someone who PvP's on occasion has full PvE epic gear. How would this fiasco work in Ilum? Or any open world type PvP? oh thats right, it wouldn't work.

 

How is running PvE instances/operations NOT gear grinding?

 

How is your point relevant at all in 1.2 where everyone has the opportunity to get the highest tiered PvP gear?

 

Again, its easy to get PvP gear in this game within only a few weeks, if that... people are just greedy and feel entitled to something that other people have earned. I am not making posts about how I should get a full set of Rakata gear when I suddenly feel like raiding, or 'normalize' stats when i go do an operation so my PvP gear is on par with Rakata/Columi.

 

Why not just remove gear completely? Everything should be cosmetic, right?

[Lesrach]

It is very important to me to have one good gear set that I could accomplish both pvp and pve. This whole Resilience scenario was a failure in wow and is utterly ruining swtor for me or 50% of the game.

 

+ swtor is a mmorpg and it just doesn't fit a roleplay setting that your epic armor only works occassionally!

[iM_TeHCno]

This post is probably dead by now but I wanted to make my counter argument and had to go to work first.

 

I am a hardcore PvP'er. My first character was leveled from 19-49 exclusively with PvP, a few FP's (1 run of each until D7 and excluding MP), and space dailies. I don't like PvE, I hardly enjoy gear progression at all, and welcome the new PvP gearing system. You say you don't want to have to play large amounts of PvP to be competitive. I don't want to have to spend 2 weeks gearing to join my guild for a Nightmare mode. Even after patch 1.2 top tier... note I said TOP, will be easily accessible over a moderate amount of time to anyone who actively participates in rated WZ's (the exact amount of time isn't known yet). There isn't even really a gear progression anymore. Join rated WZ's, lose for awhile due to minimal Expertise, get t4 PvP gear... Nobody would touch my BM Sage for an OP Nightmare FE run.

 

Keep in mind in order to be 100% optimal at PvP atm I HAVE to PvE in order to mix Rakata and BM gear, as well to remod my PvP gear, and (of lesser importance) datacron hunt. Not to mention to gain access to stims/adrenals/meds that are more useful than what I could obtain through PvP. (No stims in PvP form, WZ adrenals run into the Expertise soft cap problem, and medpaks for some low health classes become obsolete due to giving %HP return) Not only do I have to PvE... I have to obtain Rakata level gear. I don't want to do this... I want to play my WZ's, and fight in Open World PvP (yeah now you know I'm a troll when I mention that in SWTOR XD), and with my own skill be capable of being the best.

 

Try and make the counter argument that you need to obtain BM to be competitive in PvP... and I'll mention how that isn't the case come the 1.2 Patch. Make it so PvE gear can effectively and efficiently be combined with PvP gear to be competitive.... but let me skip PvE progression and hand me my top tier equipment then please.

 

TL;DR: Top Tier PvP gear will soon be easily accessible to everyone, there are already enough PvE requirements to PvP competitiveness, I for one am glad they'll make it so I don't have to grind Rakata to be 100% effective.