1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[Antipathize]

By his analogy showing up to the Olympics repeatedly and placing last every time will eventually result in taking home the gold.

[ragnarz]

I find it funny that all these 1337, hardcore, PvPers think that WZ's are actual PvP, they are a diversion at best. 1.2 is destroying what little open world PvP there is with nothing to replace it with. Ilum is a joke, I get that, Outlaws Den.....*** are they doing with OD?

 

I came from a game that made us play in the same zone for PvP for 4+ years, I'm not settling for 4 WZ's that don't require a brain to participate. I want open world PvP where tactics, movement, and the element of surprise allow a tight knit smaller group dominate a larger group, not through OP classes or superior gear, but through afore mentioned tactics and movement. As it is now looks as though my guild will look somewhere else, its a shame too, ToR is a fun game.

 

Crazy huh, you actually miss the Ettenmoors!

[rzrknight]

Yup mate , i for one already adopted the movie watching pvp.

 

I mean haha , winning server no purpose? Then let the other team win , i dont care.

 

Sr about the people that will lose rank cause im in their team , since with ranked i can be in anyone team , but i rly dont care about you that much.

Edited March 10, 2012 by rzrknight

[Ngamok]

There need to be items that you need a minimum rating to purchase.

 

You baddies are the types of people who think trophies of any kind are bad. EVERYONE who shows up to the Olympics should get a medal for showing up. It's really not fair that people who are better and work harder get Gold while others have to settle for bronze.

 

Dumb analogy is dumb. You should add in there that the person who wins the gold medal every time is the one who dopes their blood because that is what having the best gear is. Or is a genetically enhanced Clanner, Aff?

[OeSan]

MMO's are about progression, or time sinks if you are looking on them from a business standpoint. This isn't street fighter. If we were to tell the pve'rs they all get the same, endgame (rakata) gear off a vendor so they could all experience pve on the same leveling playing field they would be enraged. This is no different.

 

MMO's make you work to develop a character, whether that be in pve or pvp should be the players preference. This is being taken away from pvpers.

 

Most people, and I mean most, are not complaining that they cannot get much better gear and faceroll noobs, that can be done ganking in world pvp, which is not being done for the most part. It's the tiered progression and sense of accomplishment that defines a successful mmo that is being (seemingly so) torn from the grasp of pvpers.

[rzrknight]

Dumb analogy is dumb. You should add in there that the person who wins the gold medal every time is the one who dopes their blood because that is what having the best gear is. Or is a genetically enhanced Clanner, Aff?

 

Im amazed you still respond to a person that HAS JUST QUESTIONED the way the Olympics a freaking event with more than two thousand year old history works LOL.

 

I could say what i think of him , but that is against the forum rules hehehe.

[Ainew]

PvP is Player vs Player, not Gear vs Gear. The point is to have fun winning / losing good, competitive matches, not grind #¤%#¤% epics so you can stomp newbies even harder.

 

You realize almost always the ones with more gear are also more skilled that's how they got the gear. Most of the people saying it shouldn't be about gear are the only ones who want to remove rewards for being a good player.Its the same as the 99% no one is willing to work for something,it must be handed to them. Most likely because they couldn't attain it with their current skills thus they think its the gear causing them to be out played.

 

Let them remove it and most of you will be back here complaining about class balance or huttball mechanics being unfair for some classes. Because most of you don't understand that you are just being out played. Unless you are in greens/blues/orange with blue mods. The gear difference between cet and BM gear isn't to large to overcome.

 

People aren't asking for a 50% better set of gear. We are asking for a reason to try and get high rankings. Why should we give it our best when everyone else is getting a gold medal for playing horribly ? Yes we do pvp for fun also,What you don't seem to understand is that people also have fun getting high ratings and having a goal to attain the best gear. Just because people want to play more/better than you doesn't mean they are elitist looking to crush low levels.

 

You act as if those low levels are being held down and can't do what everyone else did anyway. How about people change their attitude and try and be the best instead of asking the best have things taken because its not fair to give rewards to people who put in time for them.

[Delease]

First off stop straw manning no one ever said anything about rolling "fresh level 50's"

 

Let's apply the same logic to a pve situation normal mode drops the same loot as HM/NM. I want you to seriously stop and think about this for a minute. How do you think people would react and how many people would really approve.

 

Let me take it a step further considering there is only warzones for pvp. Let's make it so that hardmode flash points drop the same gear as raids but only offer about 5% less in stats. Can you honestly tell me people would enjoy this ?

 

 

Prior to 1.1.5 grinding battlemaster did take some work/time and rewarded us with a slight (please not slight it hardly made any difference) stat boost. All we are asking for is something similar to this,What is the point in even trying to win if I can just afk the same stat gear easily.

 

^ this.

 

Your efforts should be rewarded. It is in PVE, why not in PVP?

[OeSan]

You realize almost always the ones with more gear are also more skilled that's how they got the gear. Most of the people saying it shouldn't be about gear are the only ones who want to remove rewards for being a good player.Its the same as the 99% no one is willing to work for something,it must be handed to them. Most likely because they couldn't attain it with their current skills thus they think its the gear causing them to be out played.

 

Let them remove it and most of you will be back here complaining about class balance or huttball mechanics being unfair for some classes. Because most of you don't understand that you are just being out played. Unless you are in greens/blues/orange with blue mods. The gear difference between cet and BM gear isn't to large to overcome.

 

People aren't asking for a 50% better set of gear. We are asking for a reason to try and get high rankings. Why should we give it our best when everyone else is getting a gold medal for playing horribly ? Yes we do pvp for fun also,What you don't seem to understand is that people also have fun getting high ratings and having a goal to attain the best gear. Just because people want to play more/better than you doesn't mean they are elitist looking to crush low levels.

 

You act as if those low levels are being held down and can't do what everyone else did anyway. How about people change their attitude and try and be the best instead of asking the best have things taken because its not fair to give rewards to people who put in time for them.

My thoughts exactly, extremely well said. I miss games like LoL where the dev's take active participation in the forums. It would be nice to see what they think of the players responses to the direction they are taking PvP. IE Star Wars Street Fighter Edition.

[Delease]

MMO's are about progression, or time sinks if you are looking on them from a business standpoint. This isn't street fighter. If we were to tell the pve'rs they all get the same, endgame (rakata) gear off a vendor so they could all experience pve on the same leveling playing field they would be enraged. This is no different.

 

MMO's make you work to develop a character, whether that be in pve or pvp should be the players preference. This is being taken away from pvpers.

 

Most people, and I mean most, are not complaining that they cannot get much better gear and faceroll noobs, that can be done ganking in world pvp, which is not being done for the most part. It's the tiered progression and sense of accomplishment that defines a successful mmo that is being (seemingly so) torn from the grasp of pvpers.

 

 

Another person who gets it.

 

This is reminding me of what SWG went out and let EVERYONE become a jedi so easily..which essentially led to the demise of the game.

[ylaenna]

The devs are “going back to the drawing board” on Ilum, because they believe it needs a complete re-work to live up to their goals for open-world PvP. In the meantime, ranked PvP for WarZones will give PvPers a place to focus their energy to get the recognition and rewards they deserve.

 

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

[Narcosis]

Crazy huh, you actually miss the Ettenmoors!

 

LOL, I'm a lifer, but not sure I can bring myself to return there, at least not permanently.

[Dego_Locc]

You realize almost always the ones with more gear are also more skilled that's how they got the gear. Most of the people saying it shouldn't be about gear are the only ones who want to remove rewards for being a good player.Its the same as the 99% no one is willing to work for something,it must be handed to them. Most likely because they couldn't attain it with their current skills thus they think its the gear causing them to be out played.

 

Let them remove it and most of you will be back here complaining about class balance or huttball mechanics being unfair for some classes. Because most of you don't understand that you are just being out played. Unless you are in greens/blues/orange with blue mods. The gear difference between cet and BM gear isn't to large to overcome.

 

People aren't asking for a 50% better set of gear. We are asking for a reason to try and get high rankings. Why should we give it our best when everyone else is getting a gold medal for playing horribly ? Yes we do pvp for fun also,What you don't seem to understand is that people also have fun getting high ratings and having a goal to attain the best gear. Just because people want to play more/better than you doesn't mean they are elitist looking to crush low levels.

 

You act as if those low levels are being held down and can't do what everyone else did anyway. How about people change their attitude and try and be the best instead of asking the best have things taken because its not fair to give rewards to people who put in time for them.

Agreed.

[sumfizz]

Let them quit. I'd rather those type of people were not in the game to start with. Warzones need to be competative and not all about geeks who play 24/7 and have the best gear.

 

I agree with you 100%. I would add that PVP needs deeper goals. Gear grinding is sooooo passe it's not even funny. A modern day MMO that utilizes that mechanic is one that is not worth investing time into much less a subscription fee.

[Dego_Locc]

The devs are “going back to the drawing board” on Ilum, because they believe it needs a complete re-work to live up to their goals for open-world PvP. In the meantime, ranked PvP for WarZones will give PvPers a place to focus their energy to get the recognition and rewards they deserve.

 

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

 

So basically. "We're giving up on Open World PVP, and gear progession, so go play those same 3 old instanced small battles over and over again, plus our one new wz, and forget about Open world PVP for the time being, cough cough forever cough."

 

Thanks Bioware!

 

I don't blame them, they wanna make more money, and this is what the majority of people want, most casual and pve ppl want this.

 

But I don't. Being part of the minority sucks.

[Dego_Locc]

I agree with you 100%. I would add that PVP needs deeper goals. Gear grinding is sooooo passe it's not even funny. A modern day MMO that utilizes that mechanic is one that is not worth investing time into much less a subscription fee.

 

You say you agree, and then you say gear needs better goals. Well now, post 1.2 there will be no goals at all. PVP just for the sake of PVPing, only in instanced small fight warzones, will get old quick. Hell it already has been old, and this is gonna kill it even faster IMO. For the minority of players who are strictly PVP.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Trevalion]

I dont understand why people say the new system is removing the pvp goals. It is just transferring them away from the gear which ANY player can currently achieve, even by losing every single warzone they participate in. Can you people not see that? The current system with gear progression is NOT A FREAKING REWARD FOR GOOD PLAYERS! It is simply a milestone for time spent playing pvp! What is not clear about that?

 

The new system (which is not tied to valor in any way because valor != pvp skill folks, it simply == time spent) will allow those people who ARE skilled at pvp to rise to the top of the ranking system, which is a reward in itself. People at the top of the ranking system get cosmetic perks THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS. There is the PvP reward. It's right here, clear in purple crayon! Not only that but more depth is being added to the meta-game by allowing all purple gear to have mods extracted so that YOU and YOUR RANKED TEAM can modify your builds and gear to suit your tactics and playstyle... Can anyone who is playing the current pvp say that the current gear sets allow that? Of *********** course not, because they dont. The current pvp meta-game is so mind numbingly simple that anyone can do it.

 

This whole argument is a obvious troll and people buying into it just feeds it. Seriously, when will the madness end!

[Dego_Locc]

MMO's are about progression, or time sinks if you are looking on them from a business standpoint. This isn't street fighter. If we were to tell the pve'rs they all get the same, endgame (rakata) gear off a vendor so they could all experience pve on the same leveling playing field they would be enraged. This is no different.

 

MMO's make you work to develop a character, whether that be in pve or pvp should be the players preference. This is being taken away from pvpers.

 

Most people, and I mean most, are not complaining that they cannot get much better gear and faceroll noobs, that can be done ganking in world pvp, which is not being done for the most part. It's the tiered progression and sense of accomplishment that defines a successful mmo that is being (seemingly so) torn from the grasp of pvpers.

 

 

I feel more so in the game then any other MMO, like there is a big in game parent (Bioware) guiding me down every glorified hallway of a world and telling my what to do and how to play.

 

Why am I paying for this linear, predetermined PVP-less mess?!

 

Only because I like Star Wars, but thank excuse is wearing thin on me.

 

Hell these forums have better PVP than the game, and instead of BM gear the minority of us have a brain and want more freedom in this game and when we make valid points we are attacked by hordes of the majority of casuals who don't know what they are talking about with their small minded only one other MMO experience under their belt happily being spoon fed this grap excuse for PVP and thinking its a good idea. The latter are clearly underminded and wearing forum "greens and blues".

[Swarna]

Ratings should never be associated with gear. I can't think of any good game where your rating gives you any tangible advantages. It should be purely for competitive sport like in Starcraft 2, League of Legends, and many more games.

 

MMO rewards have always been about time invested. That's how it is currently (although recently they lowered the time required to get good gear) and that's how it WILL be in 1.2 atm.

 

If I have a high rating, I don't want any gear advantage over someone with a lower rating than me when I hand their asses to them.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Swarna

[rzrknight]

I dont understand why people say the new system is removing the pvp goals. It is just transferring them away from the gear which ANY player can currently achieve, even by losing every single warzone they participate in. Can you people not see that? The current system with gear progression is NOT A FREAKING REWARD FOR GOOD PLAYERS! It is simply a milestone for time spent playing pvp! What is not clear about that?

 

The new system (which is not tied to valor in any way because valor != pvp skill folks, it simply == time spent) will allow those people who ARE skilled at pvp to rise to the top of the ranking system, which is a reward in itself. People at the top of the ranking system get cosmetic perks THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS. There is the PvP reward. It's right here, clear in purple crayon! Not only that but more depth is being added to the meta-game by allowing all purple gear to have mods extracted so that YOU and YOUR RANKED TEAM can modify your builds and gear to suit your tactics and playstyle... Can anyone who is playing the current pvp say that the current gear sets allow that? Of *********** course not, because they dont. The current pvp meta-game is so mind numbingly simple that anyone can do it.

 

This whole argument is a obvious troll and people buying into it just feeds it. Seriously, when will the madness end!

 

the problem is that while i agree that the rewards should be given based on your rating i dont agree that the rating should be the ONLY freaking thing you get.

 

Cause plz , cars colors and that other crap does not count.

 

What is the point of playing to be the best , if all you get is NOTHING.

Edited March 10, 2012 by rzrknight

[Ngamok]

Another person who gets it.

 

This is reminding me of what SWG went out and let EVERYONE become a jedi so easily..which essentially led to the demise of the game.

 

Really? The demise of the game had nothing to do about the CU or NGE? The game was still active when WoW came out. Bunch of us quit to go play something new. I played SWG off and on till Jan 2005 (WoW came out Nov. 2004). When the CU hit, tons of people quit, then again in the NGE.

[Lightmaguz]

First off stop straw manning no one ever said anything about rolling "fresh level 50's"

 

Let's apply the same logic to a pve situation normal mode drops the same loot as HM/NM. I want you to seriously stop and think about this for a minute. How do you think people would react and how many people would really approve.

 

Let me take it a step further considering there is only warzones for pvp. Let's make it so that hardmode flash points drop the same gear as raids but only offer about 5% less in stats. Can you honestly tell me people would enjoy this ?

 

 

Prior to 1.1.5 grinding battlemaster did take some work/time and rewarded us with a slight (please not slight it hardly made any difference) stat boost. All we are asking for is something similar to this,What is the point in even trying to win if I can just afk the same stat gear easily.

 

Because PLAYING is fun. And playing fair games is even more fun, or is it?

[Scudmungus]

Sir,

 

kindly..

 

 

TOYS ------> PRAM

 

 

Regards,

 

Scud

Edited March 10, 2012 by Scudmungus

[Ngamok]

Like Arena killed WoW? Shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

You honestly believe that everyone with the best gear is the most "Skilled". I saw that post you quoted. I can tell you right now on this game, and like in Rift, a lot of the people with 80+ Valor are no lifers. Does it mean they're the best? Hell no, it means they don't have a job, a wife, kids, responsibility.

 

I know plenty of people who got Battlemaster pre patch who weren't good. I also have seen pvp movies/streams from War Heros pre valor buff who backpedaled and clicked. Were they better than me? Hell no, not even close. But I have a job, I have responsibility. I'm a War Hero now thanks to the 1.1.5 patch, but I work my 40-50 hours a week.

 

Whoever believes people with the best gear are the most skilled are probably the biggest jokes of a player. Good players don't care if everyone has equal gear, why? Because they know they won't lose. Bad players worry about fighting on equal playing fields and GOOD player will enjoy the Ranked Warzone system because we can fight equally skilled opponents. That is why Arena is so competitive, because at a certain point everyone has the same gear, what keeps them going is to be the best or to achieve higher ratings, or get that simple Gladiator title.

 

Just because you can spend 18 hours a day grinding Warzones while you click and backpedal against good teams like mine, doesn't mean you deserve the best gear.

 

Hi Mega. And Megatf speaks the truth. Even in WoW, arenas was all about comp. Everyone had the same gear. What you competed for was being #1 in rankings.

 

Brutal Gladiator Megatf

[Trixfayne]

You realize almost always the ones with more gear are also more skilled that's how they got the gear. Most of the people saying it shouldn't be about gear are the only ones who want to remove rewards for being a good player.Its the same as the 99% no one is willing to work for something,it must be handed to them. Most likely because they couldn't attain it with their current skills thus they think its the gear causing them to be out played.

 

Let them remove it and most of you will be back here complaining about class balance or huttball mechanics being unfair for some classes. Because most of you don't understand that you are just being out played. Unless you are in greens/blues/orange with blue mods. The gear difference between cet and BM gear isn't to large to overcome.

 

People aren't asking for a 50% better set of gear. We are asking for a reason to try and get high rankings. Why should we give it our best when everyone else is getting a gold medal for playing horribly ? Yes we do pvp for fun also,What you don't seem to understand is that people also have fun getting high ratings and having a goal to attain the best gear. Just because people want to play more/better than you doesn't mean they are elitist looking to crush low levels.

 

You act as if those low levels are being held down and can't do what everyone else did anyway. How about people change their attitude and try and be the best instead of asking the best have things taken because its not fair to give rewards to people who put in time for them.

 

1st paragraph: The people in SWTOR that have better gear won the RNG lottery due to large time commitments not skill. I know... I am one of them.

You are right , it is like the 99%. They didn't "get there first" and now have to fight a system that rewards the wrong types of behaviors.

 

2nd Paragraph: There is a dependency on gear in this game to be competitive. That gear is rewarded for the investment of time, not skill. There is a large gap in gear. Don't believe me? Level up a character and upon hitting 50, buy any available gear you can afford immediately after hitting 50. Then duel a Battemaster fully geared. We do not have a problem getting the gear. We have a problem with it being a crutch for skill.

 

3rd paragraph: The majority of people who engage in Player vs player game play do not want a stat advantage for winning. Those who do are the minority. Those who do it for a stat advantage over another player are not a part of the Player vs player community. They are a part of the Gear vs Gear community (ie... PvE.) Just because people play less than you doesn't mean they should automatically be at a disadvantage.

 

4th paragraph: I do not feel as though the majority of the PvP community feel they are being held down. In fact, most have done the grind. We are doing exactly what you just suggested. We are changing our attitude on Player vs Player game play. We are tired of having to "Grind" before we can have fun. I have 2 50's that I hardly play. I don't like the grind to get gear to be competitive. Especially when I can 10-49 bracket and be competitive and have fun immediately.