Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't think you "read gud". I said good players don't want gear gaps because it is not fun to roll people because of the gap. Perhaps you have never experienced that, but for average and above players it is not fun destroying lesser geared players just because they have worse gear. You will have to take our word for it. Actually I quite enjoyed being the underdog on my alts in centerion against BM's. I prefer more of a challenge. Assume more about me.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't think anyone can define what a "real" MMO is. Perhaps what they like in one, but not to be able to define it. Same thing with PvP. Theres many different styles, and i have played all of them at some point. Some i like, some i don't. Same with MMOs. Real MMO was a bad term used by me. What I should have said was what I expect from PVP in an MMO, given all he different MMO's I have experienced. And you are correct it all boils down to personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So reading this, how are you gonna think about those who afk in warzones just to get the new easily obtainable War Hero gear in upcoming patch 1.2? You do realize that win or loose ppl are still getting the comms towards their new gear (which even fresh 50's can wear by the way, and makes BM obsolete). In the long run it's just Bioware rewarding lazy players for sucking, and encouraging bad play to those who can abuse it. Which will kill the overall PVP base in the end. Watch and see. I have seen it happen plenty of times in other games. This is a sinking ship, a year out, sub numbers (if it aint F2P) will be well under 1 million. They are going to be at the bottom of the ratings and I will never see them. Time investment is not a skill. It is an external factor determined primarily by lack of real world responsibilities. If you are going to reward for that it makes equal sense to charge for gear as people who spend their time making money have as much right to gear as someone who just invests time. You are not special because you have a lot of time to play. As you grow older you will find your ability to spend as much time will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokingGoose Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) *** has communism got to do with bioware or pvp. Are you realy as mentaly deficient as you apear? yes.. Edited March 11, 2012 by SmokingGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) They are going to be at the bottom of the ratings and I will never see them. Time investment is not a skill. It is an external factor determined primarily by lack of real world responsibilities. If you are going to reward for that it makes equal sense to charge for gear as people who spend their time making money have as much right to gear as someone who just invests time. You are not special because you have a lot of time to play. As you grow older you will find your ability to spend as much time will go away. Funny, I'm 30, and you have totally missed my point. You assume way too much. Gear progression was all this game offered to those who only PVP. The "play and pvp for the fun factor" will go stale within months of the rated warzones with the addition of the new one. There is not enough content pvp wise to keep the majority of the PVP base. These changes are made to affect the majority of players, who are casual. But in the end it will suffer with out the PVP community. You may be a PVPer, and you may still hang around for a long time in this game, But most of the REAL pvp crowd, has either already left, or is planning on leaving, and most will never give this game a second chance. Edited March 11, 2012 by Dego_Locc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokingGoose Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Guild wars 2 has no gear progression in pvp and is yet considered the Holy Grail of a pvp mmo. How funny. Edited March 11, 2012 by SmokingGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeeFiFoFum Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 It's not supposed to be a grind? This MMO? Interesting...... Yes this MMO or any MMO is not supposed to be a grind. Cant have MMORPG without GAME, not having fun? Do not play. Stick to your consoles and single players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Yes this MMO or any MMO is not supposed to be a grind. Cant have MMORPG without GAME, not having fun? Do not play. Stick to your consoles and single players. This carebear linear excuse for an MMO is aimed more at casual console gamers, than at PVP pc gamers, so what is it exactly you are trying to get at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Guild wars 2 has no gear progression in pvp and is yet considered the Holy Grail of a pvp mmo. How funny. Because gear progession is not needed in a game with THAT much PVP content. This game however, needs gear progression to help with the bore of the same ole warzones 8 v 8 over and over and over, and total lack of open world PVP battles or ojbectives, or even zones that both fractions use for questing. Edited March 11, 2012 by Dego_Locc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyillo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Guild wars 2 has no gear progression in pvp and is yet considered the Holy Grail of a pvp mmo. How funny. Guild Wars 2 arenas don't use gear progression. The one feature that most people are excited about is WvWvW and gear progression is definitely there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Guild Wars 2 arenas don't use gear progression. The one feature that most people are excited about is WvWvW and gear progression is definitely there. That's what ppl keep getting twisted. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The people who put in more time are usually the more skilled as well, and by no means always cause there a lot of people who have just invested time and is still at square 1 in skill. I like the idea that everyone should be equal to an extended. How ever if you guys feel so strongly about this why dont you make the same Case in PvE, nobody has answered that yet. If you take out the rewards you take out the purpose. Maybe vanity will be enough, I have my doubts. PVE is different because the content is gated by gear (well the stats on the gear), pvp isnt nor could it be effectively, the only reason for pvp gear in the first place is to prevent pve gear giving an unfair advantage in pvp to those that dont pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Actually I quite enjoyed being the underdog on my alts in centerion against BM's. I prefer more of a challenge. Assume more about me.......... I like being an underdog too... But I hate dominating because of gear. Thus the net result is remove the overall stat progression relatively early on. Listen I was screaming to defend expertise as loud as anyone. Still am. These changes will hopefully and likely make expertise MORE important. It is fine to have a base level of gear progression but it is not fine keeping a perpetual gap between players based on play time. That is horrible pvp game design. In pve players can progress through the content at various rates. In pvp the other players are the content and perpetual imbalance makes for bad pvp gameplay. These changes will improve pvp significantly. Over time new tiers of gear will come out and you can spend all your free time to get your 15 minutes then everyone else will catch up and game on. Until the next tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Funny, I'm 30, and you have totally missed my point. You assume way too much. Gear progression was all this game offered to those who only PVP. The "play and pvp for the fun factor" will go stale within months of the rated warzones with the addition of the new one. There is not enough content pvp wise to keep the majority of the PVP base. These changes are made to affect the majority of players, who are casual. But in the end it will suffer with out the PVP community. You may be a PVPer, and you may still hang around for a long time in this game, But most of the REAL pvp crowd, has either already left, or is planning on leaving, and most will never give this game a second chance. If you play any pvp for gear progression you are not a pvper. In other words your are doing it wrong. If you are playing pvp to get gear or max medals then I don't want to play with you. I want to play against and with people who want to win a match not a fashion show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I like being an underdog too... But I hate dominating because of gear. Thus the net result is remove the overall stat progression relatively early on. See the main difference in our opinion, is I just don't flat out think the current gear gap is that crucial in a fight at this point, it doesn't make bads good, and it doesn't make it impossible for an under geared skilled player to beat us,yet it is just enough to give people something to work towards. Take it away, and PVP in this game will die in months. Mark my words. It's going to happen. It already has started to happen in a sense with PVPers leaving the game. And it's not just a tiny a fraction, the majority of PVPer's admit this games PVP is lacking, and endgame sucks and the loss of endgame PVP progression is going to make it worse overall. My theory anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeeFiFoFum Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 This carebear linear excuse for an MMO is aimed more at casual console gamers, than at PVP pc gamers, so what is it exactly you are trying to get at? What im trying to get at is if you do not like it, do not play it. Hardcores just ruin it anyway. BM in a week or two going on and on about how easy it was. We all do not have time to play all day everyday straight. It is not that easy, but it was fun, for me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Well look on the bright side. When you beat someone, or someone beats you again and again and again, you can't blame them for having better gear, because everyone will have the same gear, hence the only thing that will determine a fight is Skill, Lag, and FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Because gear progession is not needed in a game with THAT much PVP content. This game however, needs gear progression to help with the bore of the same ole warzones 8 v 8 over and over and over, and total lack of open world PVP battles or ojbectives, or even zones that both fractions use for questing. This game doesn't NEED gear progression. What it needs are achievements for pvp that doesn't necessarily have to be gear progression. Bioware just happened to use gear progression because 2 other moderately/successful MMOs use it (Mind you those two successful mmos PvP sucks. I'm looking at you WAR and WOW.) Dego if you're that incensed about the lack of pvp content leave for a few months and come back. If the pvp content still sucks go play GW2. I still think you should consider playing WAR or WOW because I don't think you'll care for GW2 style of pvp. Most who are leaving this game because of the armor progression change most likely wouldn't like GW2 either, you won't be able to use gear as a crutch in that game either. Edited March 11, 2012 by portichae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 If you play any pvp for gear progression you are not a pvper. In other words your are doing it wrong. If you are playing pvp to get gear or max medals then I don't want to play with you. I want to play against and with people who want to win a match not a fashion show. I am not playing for that, but, I can recognize that it's ALL this game offers PVP wise to keep PVPers subscribing month after month. People will get tired of even matches with nothing to work for but new colors, a high rank, all in the same 4 boring warzones with no world PVP. What is so hard to get about that and see the writing on the wall of how things are gonna go down with the PVP side of this game?> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Because gear progession is not needed in a game with THAT much PVP content. This game however, needs gear progression to help with the bore of the same ole warzones 8 v 8 over and over and over, and total lack of open world PVP battles or ojbectives, or even zones that both fractions use for questing. So LoL has loads of maps? or maby it has gear progression? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) This game doesn't NEED gear progression. What it needs are achievements for pvp that doesn't necessarily have to be gear progression. Bioware just happened to use gear progression because 2 other moderately/successful MMOs use it (Mind you those two successful mmos PvP sucks. I'm looking at you WAR and WOW.) Dego if you're that incensed about the lack of pvp content leave for a few months and come back. If the pvp content still sucks go play GW2. I still think you should consider playing WAR or WOW because I don't think you'll care for GW2 style of pvp. Most who are leaving this game because of the armor progression change most likely wouldn't like GW2 either, you won't be able to use gear as a crutch in that game either. There will be a form gear progression in the WvWvW FYI. Also I like WAR open world PVP. Was a blast. WOW on the other hand was too carebear, like this game. Edited March 11, 2012 by Dego_Locc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyLightATX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! So long, and thanks for all the fish! Gee tee eff ooh. Looks to me like we're better off without you good sir. The community is much better off without all the egotistical people that think they're better than everyone else because they most likely used the exploit to gear up early on and roflstomp fresh 50's. I loved killing those guys when I was a fresh 50. Made me laugh so hard I died to the next one of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) like i said: pvp = player vs player. it's not gear vs gear. it's not have vs have not. progression in pvp should be progression of the PLAYER, not of the CHARACTER. the CHARACTER is a pve function, and should only progress through pve. Like I said the whole thread is summed below. I am not sure what you think you are adding. People like progressing their characters in MMO's even in PvP. You are saying they shouldn't progress their characters. I dont get why you think if a character has 2% more HP it becomes gear vs gear. There is a point where you can have (gear or character) progression and not ruin/imbalance the game. I mean, do you believe that every class is really 100% balanced against every other class? Summary f thread to date: Player 1 - I am upset that they are removing progression from PvP Player 2 - PvP is not about gear, if you are good at PvP you don't need great gear Player 1 - I understand, but I want limited progression, better gear that is not a huge gap Player 2 - You stink, you just want to roll fresh 50's Player 1 - No, it's an MMO and progression is a big part of the fun Player 2 - PvE is progression, PvP is about skill, all gear should be equal Has there been one post (49 pages atm) that is not covered in the above? Edited March 11, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 There will be a form gear progression in the WvWvW FYI. Also I like WAR open world PVP. Was a blast. WOW on the other hand was too carebear, like this game. There won't in the sense you mean gear progression in PvP. Trust me i'm VERY much aware of what will be in GW2. WvW bonuses will not affect PvP. WvW bonuses are treated as PvE bonuses because arena-net doesn't consider WvW as competitive PvP, WvW is considered a PvE event. I'd like to see this game move towards a similar system because I also enjoy WvW, when I'm not participating in competitive PvP events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegwulf Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why is it so hard to give those that put in the effort to push their characters to that next level a nod for the effort? I did not get my BM in the first month but i did put an effort for to make BM before they capped valor gains in llum and boosted valor gains in the wz's (which btw is now easy mode). I would hope that if you are entering the ranked wz's you wouldnt be undergeared or a fresh 50 because as hard as it is to hear for most of you, until you actually put in the time on your main character your not as good as you think. It drives me nuts to watch the fresh 50's coming in the 50 warzones and still not know what in the hell is going on, standing flat footed, and not knowing how to maximize the use of the resolve bar. My hope is that these ranked wz's give the serious pvp'ers the challenge they are looking for, if not i will continue to destroy these fresh 50's entering in the wz's and i will NOT hold my head in shame for being full BM, I earned the title before it was given, and got the gear before it was handed out. I will continue to adjust my game and be one of the best on the server because i adjust my game to patches and dont expect this game to be like WoW or WAR, I will play this game like SW:TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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