1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[Proppa]

I play to get a buzz, killing people on an equal playing field gives that. Fighting full battlemaster war hero's, on a fresh 50 is just like lambs to the slaughter. No ammount of skill can overcome the stat/expertise difference.

 

Whilst some players have marginally better standard gear via datacrons etc, Expertise alone provides a 20% or higher bonus to battlemasters vs fresh 50's, let alone the stat discrepencies listed.

 

So this gives the teams with the most / highest gear the largest advantage. Making it easier for them to complete dailies and harder for normal people to do them.

[portichae]

There already is a KotOR 2... <.<

SHUTURFASE That's a lie!!

[Incendergel]

what incentive do people need besides killing the other faction,thats what real pvpers are.the ones that pvp for the enjoyment of pvp,not because they just want "phat loots"so there pvping to get them

 

Because there is no faction war come patch 1.2??? Warzones can be made same faction like hutball today.

 

Because some people actually like to PvP outside a restricted / confined space of a warzone? 3 warzones today. 4 come 1.2. Do you like seeing the same thing over, and over, and over? Maybe I'm a minority here /shrug. Maybe all you have played or know is battleground type pvp. That is fine. Others have played with no restrictions and prefer that - maybe hoped this was it?

 

Legacy will only blur the faction lines worse or so it would seem.

[AAmedeo]

Listen, I have to admit something.

 

I have PvP'ed quite a bit since hitting 50. I have gotten better at it and have enjoyed it.

 

I WANT THE LOOT. AND FOR A DIFFERENT REASON THAN YOU THINK.

 

Champ and Battlemaster gear is almost as good for PvE as Tionese and Columi. Due to my guild only raiding once a week on Saturday nights, and I agreed with my wife to only use every other Saturday night for it, the other to be with her, it is a very slow process to get endgame PvE gear.

 

So I PvP at all differnent days and times, getting PvP gear that makes me viable in PvE raiding.

 

If PvP gear was useless in PvE, I would queue up 10 times less than I do now.

[Varicite]

There are 8 off the top of my head I could go on but why bother. It is going to get worse if they add damage meters or allow mixing of PvE gear with PvP. The utopia that you want won't exist and it can't unless they strip everything away including datacron buffs. Pretty difficult.

 

No one is arguing that there isn't already an inherent stat disparity already in the game. What we are saying is that there is no need to FURTHER unbalance what is already in place by giving even more stats. Especially in a competitive PvP system where "sportsmanship" should be the name of the game.

 

No one is pretending that taking away STAT rewards from higher-rated characters is going to magically make every single stat discrepancy go away; if they are, they are likely delusional. What I think, however, is that there is no reason to make the stat discrepancies any larger than they already are.

 

And as I keep saying, ESPECIALLY not in a "competitive" PvP environment, as it goes against the very spirit of competition itself.

 

You don't take a broadsword to a fencing match and call it an even fight.

[Incendergel]

I play to get a buzz, killing people on an equal playing field gives that. Fighting full battlemaster war hero's, on a fresh 50 is just like lambs to the slaughter. No ammount of skill can overcome the stat/expertise difference.

 

Whilst some players have marginally better standard gear via datacrons etc, Expertise alone provides a 20% or higher bonus to battlemasters vs fresh 50's, let alone the stat discrepencies listed.

 

So this gives the teams with the most / highest gear the largest advantage. Making it easier for them to complete dailies and harder for normal people to do them.

 

Centurion: 466

Champion: 650

Battlemaster: 703

 

Centurion don't have relics I think - maybe I'm wrong but if I recall that is why centurion to champ is a wider spread.

 

Question to you. Do you think having a 50 - 53 expertise is a game changer? Because that is all there is. Don't believe me, visit the NPC vendor like I suggested earlier and add. If you are lazy, then google is your friend.

 

People say they want skill to matter - there you go. Champion gear isn't so bad now is it?

[Varicite]

Centurion: 466

Champion: 650

Battlemaster: 703

 

Centurion don't have relics I think - maybe I'm wrong but if I recall that is why centurion to champ is a wider spread.

 

Question to you. Do you think having a 50 - 53 expertise is a game changer? Because that is all there is. Don't believe me, visit the NPC vendor like I suggested earlier and add. If you are lazy, then google is your friend.

 

People say they want skill to matter - there you go. Champion gear isn't so bad now is it?

 

He didn't say a thing about Champion gear, he said that a fresh 50 going against BM is a large gap, and it is.

 

That's going to be made a lot softer w/ the new set of blue lv50 PvP gear, along w/ the changes already in place for obtaining gear.

 

Are you the type of person who would join a baseball team and then insist your steel-plated bat should be allowed because it only gives you a SMALL advantage over the other team? Do you think that your reasoning would fly in that situation?

 

Why do you think it flies here?

[Proppa]

I re-rolled from my nearly Battlemaster full Champ Sorc due to getting bored with continuous Huttball, and outnumbering the reps on that server by 3/1 ratio atleast.

 

My Vanguard I was able to get nearly full champ gear pretty quickly and with a pocket healer I can easily stand up against a Battlemaster.

 

But, my Sentinel who was a fresh 50, going up against War Hero's in Full Battlemaster gear I was getting slaughtered. I started with around 200 expertise (41 from each of the Colour Crystals you can buy) then 2 or 3 pieces of centurion gear from opening the 6 champ bags upon dinging.

 

Trying to join a warzone, where the Imperials have been playing since release and there are full premades of War Hero's, the gear makes it almost unplayable to be honest. The more days go by I find myself player for fewer and fewer hours a day.

 

I rolled republic, because I wanted to try and "even" the odds a bit. Also, hoped to have a better mix in PvP. But travel to Ilum and your outnumbered 2/1 atleast. The imps on my server will just cap the central alllll the time. So I travel with the op reps on the server then we just kill a few but get over-run quickly. Making the Ilum daily, turn into a multiple day quest, whereas the Imps would get their 30/150 kills within a few minutes then be off back to the Warzones.

 

Ilum "Armaments" was probably the worst thing added to the game, so few has made people lie and try to "steal" them frmo other people etc. I logged on and asked in general what central was like, a player replied with "overrun by imps" I travel there needing 2 armaments for daily, turns out it was just 2 reps capping.

 

But sorry I'm straying from the point. I dislike the fact that the strong just get stronger and stronger and the weak just give up trying. There is almost no skill involved in it. You get over 20% (10%+ reduction 10%+ damage), aswell as battlemaster having slightly better stats over-all.

 

So yes, Full Champ to Full BM isn't that big a difference, but Full BM to basic gear is huge. Trying to compete as a fresh 50 is nigh on impossible now. Thats what I'm trying to get at.

[Incendergel]

He didn't say a thing about Champion gear, he said that a fresh 50 going against BM is a large gap, and it is.

 

That's going to be made a lot softer w/ the new set of blue lv50 PvP gear, along w/ the changes already in place for obtaining gear.

 

Are you the type of person who would join a baseball team and then insist your steel-plated bat should be allowed because it only gives you a SMALL advantage over the other team? Do you think that your reasoning would fly in that situation?

 

Why do you think it flies here?

 

Fresh 50 can obtain gear in a day or two at best and then there isn't a gap. The problem people won't admit is they want it once they hit 50 and not do any work. At 50 you should have 1 bag in the bank and 5 ready to purchase. Do I really need to do the math and list out how many tokens it would yield? Really?

 

They have already changed the game to resolve the issue of gear disparity. I'll list just a few for you yet again.

 

1. Daily and weekly Ilum - moved to warzones

2. 500 valor per medal, caps at 4 medals - that is 2,000 valor

 

So what I'm hearing you say is that you want to be able to ding 50 and enter a warzone AND be equal as the rest in the fight? No disparity at all to include pve gear, pvp gear, stims, or even datacrons.

[Varicite]

Fresh 50 can obtain gear in a day or two at best and then there isn't a gap. The problem people won't admit is they want it once they hit 50 and not do any work. At 50 you should have 1 bag in the bank and 5 ready to purchase. Do I really need to do the math and list out how many tokens it would yield? Really?

 

They have already changed the game to resolve the issue of gear disparity. I'll list just a few for you yet again.

 

1. Daily and weekly Ilum - moved to warzones

2. 500 valor per medal, caps at 4 medals - that is 2,000 valor

 

So what I'm hearing you say is that you want to be able to ding 50 and enter a warzone AND be equal as the rest in the fight? No disparity at all to include pve gear, pvp gear, stims, or even datacrons.

 

Not really sure where you got any of what you just said from what I just said.

 

In fact, I basically agreed w/ you that gear is easy to get. I wasn't disputing that.

 

The last part of what you wrote is actually the exact opposite of what I've been saying, so you might want to get those ears of yours checked. Whatever you're "hearing" is nowhere near what's being said.

 

In fact, here's what I did say:

 

No one is arguing that there isn't already an inherent stat disparity already in the game. What we are saying is that there is no need to FURTHER unbalance what is already in place by giving even more stats. Especially in a competitive PvP system where "sportsmanship" should be the name of the game.

 

No one is pretending that taking away STAT rewards from higher-rated characters is going to magically make every single stat discrepancy go away; if they are, they are likely delusional. What I think, however, is that there is no reason to make the stat discrepancies any larger than they already are.

 

Yeah, definitely not at all what you "heard" me say.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Varicite

[Gadian]

No one is arguing that there isn't already an inherent stat disparity already in the game. What we are saying is that there is no need to FURTHER unbalance what is already in place by giving even more stats. Especially in a competitive PvP system where "sportsmanship" should be the name of the game.

 

No one is pretending that taking away STAT rewards from higher-rated characters is going to magically make every single stat discrepancy go away; if they are, they are likely delusional. What I think, however, is that there is no reason to make the stat discrepancies any larger than they already are.

 

And as I keep saying, ESPECIALLY not in a "competitive" PvP environment, as it goes against the very spirit of competition itself.

 

You don't take a broadsword to a fencing match and call it an even fight.

 

This.

[Incendergel]

 

So yes, Full Champ to Full BM isn't that big a difference, but Full BM to basic gear is huge. Trying to compete as a fresh 50 is nigh on impossible now. Thats what I'm trying to get at.

 

Fresh 50, sure. But that is the same regardless if they pvp or pve (yeah, scripted, I know). It is there to purchase with little to no effort. That list was to show people who freak out thinking there is some huge disparity - there isn't. It is what, 36 or so per piece for centurion, then 46, then 50. Like I said earlier - they have patched the game to address the accessibility of the gear. It is a moot point - they have said as much. Band aide, short term, until they can figure something out. Part of the debate these past 120+ pages as been incentive - or what is in store. Not many are actually saying it has to be gear. They are calling a spade a spade to show the gear really isn't a issue if you put it together.

 

What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.

[Proppa]

Incendergel do you play Imperial or Republic? What server do you play on?

 

Honestly, on my server at the moment, getting the Warzone wins often only comes from Huttball of Rep vs Rep. There are SO many more BM+ Imps than Reps it seems on my server.

 

A friend of mine, in 3hrs of playtime on my server got 1 warzone win all night.

 

So that Daily turned into a 2 daily. Although he did get about 24 armaments from the warzones. The queues were about 15mins+ apart.

 

So generally it can be "easy" to get the gear, I think server by server is having very different experiences.

[Gadian]

Fresh 50, sure. But that is the same regardless if they pvp or pve (yeah, scripted, I know). It is there to purchase with little to no effort. That list was to show people who freak out thinking there is some huge disparity - there isn't. It is what, 36 or so per piece for centurion, then 46, then 50. Like I said earlier - they have patched the game to address the accessibility of the gear. It is a moot point - they have said as much. Band aide, short term, until they can figure something out. Part of the debate these past 120+ pages as been incentive - or what is in store. Not many are actually saying it has to be gear. They are calling a spade a spade to show the gear really isn't a issue if you put it together.

 

What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.

 

Nobody is arguing this. I think you actually agree with us (even if you don't think you do).

 

Read the original poster and I think it will all make sense. He was crying that gear won't be rewarded for pvp grinders. We are arguing that gear-based pvp rewards are bad. The end. Some of your posts seem to agree with this.

[Varicite]

What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.

 

That's not what you're hearing, that's just what you're assuming.

 

Your assumption is actually very, very far off of the mark from what is actually being said by most of us who are against higher rated players being rewarded w/ higher stat advantages.

[Mallani]

FreWhat I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.

 

Yes! At this point PVP success becomes skill dependant and not gear dependant. That is how it should be. Think about it, in any sport, profession, hell life itself, success is based largely on skill. Not who has the newest skates.

 

As far as the people quitting, I will sub another account just as a big **** you to all the crybaby whiners complaining about newb 50's not having to "work" for their gear.

[Proppa]

I would much rather rewards be superficial things. Not something which gives you a clear advantage.

 

To me, it wouldn't be any fun if I was in full BM gear spanking everyone below me. I'd much rather be all in the same gear then get Titles, pets, valor ranks etc. Stat-based websites showing the top classes/players. Knowing I am better than other players, or worse than other players if the case may be, but we were all in equal gear is what I enjoy to be honest.

 

I have no interest in the gear grind. It honestly does nothing for me, not because I'm lazy or don't want to put effort in. At the moment, I've probably played 10+hours a day since I lost my job (although I have a second interview for another job early next week). But for most of that time, there is NO action at all so since my sentinel dinged 50 it's probably 3/4 hours a day. Playing between 5/10 GMT or there abouts anything out of those hours and action goes to null.

 

It's just that nothing feel's skill based, and it's always easy to blame the gear disparity, or use it as a crutch to how good you "feel" you are.

[Gadian]

To me, it wouldn't be any fun if I was in full BM gear spanking everyone below me.

 

That is the difference between you and the people who want gear for grinding.

[Gadian]

That's not what you're hearing, that's just what you're assuming.

 

Your assumption is actually very, very far off of the mark from what is actually being said by most of us who are against higher rated players being rewarded w/ higher stat advantages.

 

This.

[Incendergel]

Incendergel do you play Imperial or Republic? What server do you play on?

 

Honestly, on my server at the moment, getting the Warzone wins often only comes from Huttball of Rep vs Rep. There are SO many more BM+ Imps than Reps it seems on my server.

 

A friend of mine, in 3hrs of playtime on my server got 1 warzone win all night.

 

So that Daily turned into a 2 daily. Although he did get about 24 armaments from the warzones. The queues were about 15mins+ apart.

 

So generally it can be "easy" to get the gear, I think server by server is having very different experiences.

 

Dragon trail. Republic. About 5 days head start. Hit 50 oh, I don't remember. January sometime. Most people I pvp'd with are war hero before patch dropped. I'm lagging and not even a BM. It doesn't phase me one bit.

 

Casual player. I did though use Ilum to my advantage and went there after picking up my dailies. I play a couple hours a night if possible mainly to complete them. Weeklies always get completed because the dailies do - works out that way. Sort of nice.

 

While leveling I kept my valor level as close as possible. I don't level alts. I'm a smuggler - leveled up as GS, then dirty fighting. So no stealth. Ilum - get the buff, group up as best as we could - we are out numbered by a easy 3:1. Usually in a group of 8, roaming outside of map, say out of center. Pick off smaller groups. Valor flowed in, quest got done, end of story.

 

Not pro. Don't use all my keybinds. I actually prefer to play in the 10 - 49 bracket of warzones - I do have a shadow I'm sort of playing but I think it suits my play style more. I tend to run to the fights rather than use range and movement. So I'm not very good.

 

Saved valor for 5 bags. Had a 6th saved. Upon those 6 I got a chest piece first - champion - this was before the patch. Since then pretty much only have pvp'd. Mix champion and centurion gear. Gear difference doesn't bug me at all. I actually cheat though because I do have a healer I group with more often than not so if we play smart we can usually prevail or hold them off until help comes.

 

My issues are not so much the warzones as it is the population imbalance. I actually liked Ilum. I liked the points to capture for valor buffs. I didn't like the client performance and laggy'ness. I'm not sure if classes are balanced but who knows.

 

I sure in the hell don't want damage or health meters. I think that will ruin the game more than what we are all pissing in the wind over 1.2. Just my opinion.

 

That help at all?

 

Oh - my preference for PvP is actually DaOC open world pvp. Realm rank 8 Thane, master level 10. Realm rank 10 sprirtmaster, master level 10. Stopped playing after ToA though because the haves vs have nots with PvE and PVP ruined the game. The downside of DaOC though was the abilities tied to realm rank. It does put you at a disadvantage. So what does that leave us with? I dunno.

[Gadian]

This.

 

Look, for the most part we aren't arguing about the status quo, gear doesn't take too long to obtain (although YMMV depending on your server, and I would like to be able to avoid repeating the initial pvp grind for alts).

 

We are arguing against any future implementation of gear-based PVP rewards. In other words, we are responding to the OP.

[Incendergel]

Oh - I'll add it takes me about an hour to win 3 games, but takes me about 12 games to win 3 If that makes sense. We have a few imperial guilds that field premades. Also if I queue with the 3 I play with, well, the queue times are that much longer. I just read during that time.

 

The game is very casual player friendly in this regard. I don't know a ounce of how the PvE or raiding is though. Although I do see people pvp'in in rakata gear.

[Proppa]

I played DAOC, with about 10 RR6/10 toons, all ML10/CL10 etc. I prefered being in equal gear and having skill the deciding factor in most fights. Open PvP was FAR more fun there.

 

Atleast in DAOC, the gear/stats never created as much of a difference as the gear in this game seems to have.

 

Good to know you play Rep, seems you are in a similar boat.

 

I re-rolled like I said. My Sorc was EASYYYY as hell, as there were no battlemasters, I was in the first wave of 50's and often ran in premades. So I was nearly battlemaster after about 3/4 weeks of playing. But got bored of being the over-pop, fancied playing the underdog. But since re-rolling, there are War Hero's a plenty, so trying to get thing's done is much harder now, than it was for those who are BM/War hero currently.

 

Atleats if gear is equal and there were other benefits, fresh 50's wouldn't feel as useless.

 

People hurl abuse at people with less than 15k hps in most of the warzones I join. Often quite bad to watch, but everyone has to start somewhere.

[Rakugo]

Nobody on this game will be able to beat my team. Thinking so is a joke.

 

I assure you we are the most organized, skillcapped players and you probably won't face us because your random and once were sitting on the rank 1 roster, our alts will take rank 2-5

 

you wantz cookieez withzz that sir:)

[Spuck]

i think the real pvpers in this game

 

1.already left,because the pvp so far ive expieranced was meh at best

 

2.dont really care,because they already relize the game was more focused towards story then it was pvp.but are probably on there way out of the door because guild wars 2 and tera

 

 

but i could be wrong.i mean,im only lvl 27 so maybe theres a difference between 1-49 pvp and lvl 50 pvp

 

But Guild Wars 2 isn't scifi and it isn't Star Wars. That's 2 strikes already