1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[Vaipyr]

This is not rocket surgery.

 

I luld.

 

Kudos

 

Your chess is silly

No, what's silly is that you're choosing to ignore the fact that this is how you (the collective you of whiners) want PvP to be.

More tiers of pvp gear can be easily fixed by adding new champion gear that's closer and attained the same way.

So fix the problem by.... continuing with the same problem? Yeah, this makes no sense man. LETS JUST ADD MORE GEAR TO GRIND FOR (while people still have numerical advantages over others, muwahahaha)

People play competitive pve are you IMPLYING PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PVE JUST TO PVE WAHHHHHHT ?

What are you saying here? I will choose to think that english isn't your first language and respond appropriately. If I was implying anything close to what you said it would be more that people DO pve just to PvE. But until some game comes along and changes the mold and makes PvE dynamic and skill-based (more like an FPS. without aggro tables, memorized sequences, tank/healer/dps holy trinity mechanics etc) the way PvE is played is determined by both gear checks and ability to memorize sequences.

 

Also if I in my guild am better geared that you, PvE wise, it does not hinder your progress or cause you to fail in your PvE (in fact if we group it helps you. Co-operative play and all). On the other hand if you're in level 50 blues and I'm in BM for PvP then I am directly affecting your win/loss. It is now competitive. It should now be balanced and not some stupid steamroll because I exploited/grinded longer to get an artificial mechanical advantage that prevents you from winning, no matter how skillfully you play.

 

You really make no sense.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Valkuu
Quoted deleted post

[MartyrLXXVII]

Your chess is silly the gear difference won't be that big. More tiers of pvp gear can be easily fixed by adding new champion gear that's closer and attained the same way. People play competitive pve are you IMPLYING PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PVE JUST TO PVE WAHHHHHHT ? Its honestly hilarious how ignorant a majority of the swtor pvp base is

 

 

Example ? "PVE WILL ONLY BE FAIR IF ALL GUILDS HAVE THE SAME GEAR AND GET TO DO BOSSES ON A EQUAL PLAYING FIELD herpie derpie'd"

 

The playing field is fair once again you choose to ignore the fact that the difference in champion and battlemaster gear is miniscule.

 

Ok, going to ask you the same thing I did in another thread.. forgeting all arguments just answer this simple question...

 

Why is vanity progression not good enough, why do you have to have stats?

[Seriasx]

Item progression works well with pve since the mobs are pit against what players are capable of in said gear, players can choose from the lowest/easiest raid/group to gain gear to do the higher tier mobs.

 

Its kind of lazy, but it works, you get a certain level of gear to defeat such and such encounter.

 

PvP item progression does NOT work because players without any gear have to play against those with gear and they also have to beat those players to aquire the gear. Its a horrible system that puts players who play constantly above those who are new or have less time to play.

 

Notice I said less time to play and not better or worse at pvping because NO ONE knows who is better because of the gear disparity.

 

Good pvpers who play alot, good pvpers who play less, new pvpers, and bad players do NOT want gear progression in pvp because instead of tactics, playing ability, battle awareness "paying attention to your surroundings" and class knowledge "both your class, your teammates class and the ones against you" should be the deciding factor in pvp combat.

 

Gear progression in pvp puts less and less emphasis on playing ability and more and more emphasis on how often and how many bags you opened and put onto your toon. Its as unrewarding an experience as you could have in pvp.

 

Let your playing ability be the deciding factor in winning or losing, let those you dominate know they were outplayed by a superior player/team as opposed to being out geared.

 

No good player could ever want gear progression in pvp, its counter to what they want which is to beat players with their ability to play, not their ability to put gear on.

[justadude]

The playing field is fair once again you choose to ignore the fact that the difference in champion and battlemaster gear is miniscule.

 

You choose to ignore the fact that there is a difference.

 

Battlemaster gear does not make you better that someone in champions. It does not even mean you are good, it only gives you an advantage.

 

Competitive pvp will only be competitive if the playing field is level. Even a miniscule difference in gear makes it a farce by negating the skill factor even slightly.

 

There is no arguing about this. There need to be very hard to get cosmetic rewards for winning in pvp, but in no way, shape or form should you gain an advantage through your rewards.

 

The Super Bowl mvp does not get to use his car in a game.

[Morticoccus]

Just wanted to inform bioware that tons of the members of several pvp guilds on my server are quitting after the news that rated warzones will be the new valor grind, except any requirements at all. One large pvp guild also disbanded yesterday.

 

Now I wonder, who's idea was it that "rated" pvp, would not mean squat? All they are doing now is seperating normal warzones from rated warzones, even if they will basically be exactly the same, just that rated will give better free gear.

 

I will cancel sub and prolly play my month out like 80% of my pvp guild already have, but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized.

 

High warzone rating = no rewards worth mentioning, A LOT more effort.

Low warzone rating = the same rewards as high rating, a lot LESS effort.

 

Endgame pvp gear worth working for = None.

Chance of getting bored from lack of worthwile "goals" pvp wise: High.

 

You failed with Ilum, and now you fail with this. Both had good potential.

 

Clickers and backpeddalers that run around playing rambo in pvp with no tactics in their head should NOT be awarded 100% as much as those who put more effort in it and play organized.

Just like hardmodes gives better rewards than story mode in pve.

 

Even though those that play organized get score from beating the clickers and backpedallers?

Seems to me you should be complaining about a lack of challenge rather than a lack of goals, seeing how obviously skilled you are for knowing how to keybind.

[Chrisbox]

Just wanted to inform bioware that tons of the members of several pvp guilds on my server are quitting after the news that rated warzones will be the new valor grind, except any requirements at all. One large pvp guild also disbanded yesterday.

 

Now I wonder, who's idea was it that "rated" pvp, would not mean squat? All they are doing now is seperating normal warzones from rated warzones, even if they will basically be exactly the same, just that rated will give better free gear.

 

I will cancel sub and prolly play my month out like 80% of my pvp guild already have, but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized.

 

High warzone rating = no rewards worth mentioning, A LOT more effort.

Low warzone rating = the same rewards as high rating, a lot LESS effort.

 

Endgame pvp gear worth working for = None.

Chance of getting bored from lack of worthwile "goals" pvp wise: High.

 

You failed with Ilum, and now you fail with this. Both had good potential.

 

Clickers and backpeddalers that run around playing rambo in pvp with no tactics in their head should NOT be awarded 100% as much as those who put more effort in it and play organized.

Just like hardmodes gives better rewards than story mode in pve.

 

 

 

 

Skill > gear. Once everyone is geared by the time 1.2 comes out only the best will move on.

[Ainew]

You choose to ignore the fact that there is a difference.

 

Battlemaster gear does not make you better that someone in champions. It does not even mean you are good, it only gives you an advantage.

 

Competitive pvp will only be competitive if the playing field is level. Even a miniscule difference in gear makes it a farce by negating the skill factor even slightly.

 

There is no arguing about this. There need to be very hard to get cosmetic rewards for winning in pvp, but in no way, shape or form should you gain an advantage through your rewards.

 

The Super Bowl mvp does not get to use his car in a game.

 

If you think the miniscule difference in gear is really causing you to lose you really do not know the limit of your skill in this game. Mmo's will never be the fair level playing field you want this is not an FPS where everyone is the same. Stop treating it as such.

[TipsyDrow]

I never said all BM are skilled. Don't put words in my mouth scrub because of a similar avatar.

 

 

But since you want to go there....

Chances are they put in more time and have played more, making them in all probability better than someone who plays less. In most cases of course.

 

Sure there are some baddie BM's

 

But there is way more baddie fresh 50 in blues and greens queing up for warzones and crying as a result of the outcome.

 

Also the only time I tried/played WOW was back in vanilla, It was too linear and carebear, so I never went back, IMO it was ruined out the gate. Right up your casual alley.

 

Telling me to shut up and saying I don't know what I'm talking about.....

 

If your first and only other MMO was WOW, then you have nothing to contribute to my argument noob.

 

First, insulting people only makes you sound like a 14 year old with an attitude problem, who's sole gratification in life comes from MMO's. I recomend you take a step back and do a check up from the neck up on yourself. Now for the on topic. I'll just quote another post I made on another of these numerous QQ threads.

 

I play alot. I pvp alot. The only thing it took to get to 500+ expertise and valor 60+ was time. It took no skills and no effort. Trust me. I sucked when I started to pvp at lvl 44 on a guardian. Two weks later I had 500+ expertise and valor 60+. I didn't earn any of that gear by doing anything special. I simply had more time on my hands then others. All the gear does is give you an advantage over fresh 50's. Otherwise it's all a complete wash. I have 11% bonuses from expertise, you have 11% bonuses. PVP at 50 against a fresh 50 was ridiculous when I had 500+ expertise. I could tell some folks were without a doubt better then me, yet I stomped their faces off because of gear and NOT my skill (which is thankfully much much better at this point) So what's the big deal if everyone has it? Afraid the skilled folks with less time are now gonna embarras you? I'm not. I think leveling the gear out is a GOOD thing.

[Ainew]

I luld.

 

Kudos

 

 

No, what's silly is that you're choosing to ignore the fact that this is how you (the collective you of whiners) want PvP to be.

 

So fix the problem by.... continuing with the same problem? Yeah, this makes no sense man. LETS JUST ADD MORE GEAR TO GRIND FOR (while people still have numerical advantages over others, muwahahaha)

 

What are you saying here? I will choose to think that english isn't your first language and respond appropriately. If I was implying anything close to what you said it would be more that people DO pve just to PvE. But until some game comes along and changes the mold and makes PvE dynamic and skill-based (more like an FPS. without aggro tables, memorized sequences, tank/healer/dps holy trinity mechanics etc) the way PvE is played is determined by both gear checks and ability to memorize sequences.

 

Also if I in my guild am better geared that you, PvE wise, it does not hinder your progress or cause you to fail in your PvE (in fact if we group it helps you. Co-operative play and all). On the other hand if you're in level 50 blues and I'm in BM for PvP then I am directly affecting your win/loss. It is now competitive. It should now be balanced and not some stupid steamroll because I exploited/grinded longer to get an artificial mechanical advantage that prevents you from winning, no matter how skillfully you play.

 

You really make no sense.

 

This is a pointless argument there is no winning here people think they lose because of small gear advantage and it takes no skill to get the gear they don't have.

 

We are talking about pve races for world firsts,better gear would give you advantage over someone who started 1 or 2 weeks later.Yes pve is different but you fail to understand we are talking about gear progression. People like you are to ignorant to ever realize its you and not the gear that is losing.

 

It won't make a difference you will be back here complaining about unfair class advantages when you have the same gear

 

"People can't have an advantage if they put in time I want the same thing gimmie gimmie"

 

This attitude is not good for mmo's or even society people don't want to work to gain an advantage its a man child attitude that everything should be equal.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Ainew

[MartyrLXXVII]

This is a pointless argument there is no winning here people think they lose because of small gear advantage and it takes no skill to get the gear they don't have.

 

We are talking about pve races for world firsts,better gear would give you advantage over someone who started 1 or 2 weeks later.Yes pve is different but you fail to understand we are talking about gear progression. People like you are to ignorant to ever realize its you and not the gear that is losing.

 

It won't make a difference you will be back here complaining about unfair class advantages when you have the same gear

 

"People can't have an advantage if they put in time I want the same thing gimmie gimmie"

 

This attitude is not good for mmo's or even society people don't want to work to gain an advantage its a man child attitude that everything should be equal.

 

So I'm asking again... if all the gear differences are so miniscule, why do you -NEED- to have stat progression and vanity progression isn't good enough?

[Rizenxin]

Just wanted to inform bioware that tons of the members of several pvp guilds on my server are quitting after the news that rated warzones will be the new valor grind, except any requirements at all. One large pvp guild also disbanded yesterday.

 

.bye.

[iceperson]

I'm still waiting for anyone to cite a source from BW where they say players are going to all be upgraded with full sets of the new pvp gear as soon as they login after 1.2

[MartyrLXXVII]

I always hear this "when everyone has that extra 5% stat boost,you'll see man we are going to stomp you,if only we had 50 more expertise man...." My friends could beat the bad battlemasters in champ gear why can't you ?

 

Still waiting for you to answer the question I've asked twice now.

 

Answer it please.

[Ainew]

Still waiting for you to answer the question I've asked twice now.

 

Answer it please.

 

Because a lot of the pvp players want ranked pvp and to get a reward besides cosmetic gear which will be replaced by orange gear with augments.If you read my previous posts about 10 pages back you can find a more detailed version.But to sum it up not everyone goes home with the gold.

 

Do you think hardmode flash points should drop nightmare loot but with a different graphic ?

Edited March 11, 2012 by Ainew

[MartyrLXXVII]

Because a lot of the pvp players want ranked pvp and to get a reward besides cosmetic gear which will be replaced by orange gear with augments. Do you think hardmodes should drop nightmare loot but with a different graphic ?

 

You can't compare PvE and PvP. But for myself, I don't care if stats don't change in either.

 

Different skins, titles, rankings. That's all fine by me and many others.

 

But that's your reasoning? I mean you still didn't even answer the question...

 

-WHY- isn't cosmetic gear good enough, why must it have stats to be worth anything to you?

[Spanglish]

Clickers and backpeddalers that run around playing rambo in pvp with no tactics in their head should NOT be awarded 100% as much as those who put more effort in it and play organized.

Just like hardmodes gives better rewards than story mode in pve.

 

enough with the clicker ****! lol i click and pawn noobs, and "pros" i do very well in pvp, and pve.

[DarthRaneDeer]

Seriously?

 

It's pretty well known that people who engage primarily in PvP are a minority in most MMO communities.

 

Oh, you mean like raiding... it is commonly known that most raiders are a minority in MMO communities. Let's sell all their loot to the pvp minority for creds.

[ApotheosisLanyx]

My issue with bads getting gear is this:

 

It's just annoying because it'll take that much longer to roll through them when I'd rather the game just end at the very start with the win so that I can get into a diff match that is hopefully against some skilled players so I can actually have some FUN which is why I play the game. To have FUN which is only possible when I'm fighting competitive players.

 

Edit: The problem is that I'm willing to bet that the highest rated pvpers WON'T be the skilled players, just the players who play the most. Really doubt they'll handle the rating system right, messed up a lot of things in swtor so far, epic fail for the me3 ending.. Just don't have a lot of faith in them right now. :/

Edited March 11, 2012 by ApotheosisLanyx

[KhealThar]

Because a lot of the pvp players want ranked pvp and to get a reward besides cosmetic gear which will be replaced by orange gear with augments. Do you think hardmodes should drop nightmare loot but with a different graphic ?

 

The game will have a more respectable/longer life in the PVP area if they make it competitive and even the gear playing field.

 

It isn't fair for someone who just hit 50 to have to grind for a month just to be competitive with the battlemasters, it makes people not want to pvp and kills that part of the game for them.

 

If you're the kind of guy who needs 5 more strength on his gear to feel like you accomplished something, you're not a true pvper.

 

What we should be aiming for is a completely balanced playing field with no gear gaps and it all comes down to who the better team is.

 

The good players will be at the top and the bad ones at the bottom, nothing will change.

 

Also, Battlemasters are NOT good players by default, all it takes is someone with a lot of time on his hands to achieve battlemaster.

 

Cosmetic gear is all real pvpers should need, to keep a true competitive atmosphere, you shouldn't want to have gear disparity and other various advantages.

[AKfourtyseven]

It isn't fair for someone who just hit 50 to have to grind for a month just to be competitive with the battlemasters, it makes people not want to pvp and kills that part of the game for them.

 

...

 

Cosmetic gear is all real pvpers should need, to keep a true competitive atmosphere, you shouldn't want to have gear disparity and other various advantages.

 

While you are correct with regards to the spirit of PvP, in reality this is something that is almost impossible in a game of this type. We do not have a game that has been deisgned from the ground up for PvP, with years taken to finely tune each class so they are in balance with each other on a 1v1 basis.

 

This is not Street Fighter. There is no true balance between classes on a 1v1 level because each class is designed to perform different roles in combat. As soon as we accept that fact then some things will always be more powerful in a certain setting and when combined with another and we get the force multiplying effect.

 

So yes, while i understand your argument, if people really wanted PvP then a MMO of this kind might not be the place to find it, what we have here is character Vs character and your character involves gear, stats and linear progression.

 

What i would suggest is if we really want to go down perfectly balanced PvP, we allow players to use pre-created PvP characters that are designed for balance and roughly tuned to around a BM in terms of effectiveness. Then you can either use your own character that is tuned how you like it, or the stock characters.

Edited March 11, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Spyritwind]

So you don't want to work hard for your gear? I believe you. You want to face roll pugs, newbs and people with worse gear to make your self feel good. Well I got news for you. Those pug newbs with worse gear have been working harder for their gear so far and now that you got news that you may actually have to face a more equal challenge you can't handle it?

[Deathstroke]

Take a note from WoW (OMG did he really just say that) WoW kept rating requirements on gear but only really changed the asthetics and the amount needed to obtain said gear. If BW took a note from WoW...I.E. giving end of season titles, exclusive mounts and having a higher rating = more valor...it would solve all the QQ from the people who wine and don't want good competition just faceroll.

 

I like competitive PvP and straight up hate when it's a faceroll match over and over. Good job BW keep up the good work!

[Cempa]

I have killed tons of BM players with both my lvl 50's when I only had centurion gear.

And the difference between champion and BM is close to nothing. A champion geared guy who say "omg you are BM, not fair" when the BM player owns him, just needs to learn how to play.

 

Sadly many clueless people think BM is superior :/

 

You are wrong, the mitigation is superior as in TOR 2% more mitigation is clearly sen and felt.

 

Moreover; in full BM means you have accumulated enough Comms to optimize Enhancements which makes a massive difference.

 

For example a BM Sorcerer -DPS- would want to purchase Champion Operative Hand/Head for the best Enhancement -HP/Power/Surge.

 

Alacrity is by far our worst stat after 100-200 and the only stat that has no diminishing returns whatsoever is Power!

 

I see and feel the difference when going up against BM players especially when they use Biochem.

[Bbizzle]

Good thing pvpers are the minority and nobody cares.

 

Not as much as you might think.

[OGsam]

Progression care-bears can quit all they want, nobody cares.