It's time to nerf Smash.

[pairadox]

Oke so you have a warrior doing this

 

Leap/Charge -> Choke -> Smash

 

After the choke use your knockback or before and you are fine. I play a jugg myself and the smash ability is easy to counter. And because of the 5meter radius of smash a little knockback is al you need.

 

I think the smash crit is the most easy ability to counter.

 

Force leap, choke, force push, force leap, smash.

 

Oh look at that... 0/13/28 I can now insure that I never ever ever get knocked back again, after I force leap to you, with my improved force leap and 100 percent push back immunity, I wont even get into my insta crit smashes....

 

Seems like it would be easy, but.... He force chokes you, you trinket, and pushback, he force pushes you, leaps, and smashes. Your eating the smash one way or another on any halfway competent player.

[pairadox]

Crying about a 5k Smash/force sweep.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet a Dps Powertech in 4 piece merc dps set can 5k-4k you in a global....k

 

Interesting. Because a DPS Jugg thats halfway decent can 9k you in a single smash.

[BrutalPain]

Interesting. Because a DPS Jugg thats halfway decent can 9k you in a single smash.

 

Ye thats interesting if they do that.

[Eommer]

Interesting. Because a DPS Jugg thats halfway decent can 9k you in a single smash.

 

9k? now is 9k? OMG, i will be so overpower when I get my BM gear...

[BrutalPain]

9k? now is 9k? OMG, i will be so overpower when I get my BM gear...

 

U dont need BM gear. He said "half way decent" is enough.

[Mongrul]

So, every game I play against the republic now consists of 5 sages and 3 smash spec'd jedi knights.

 

There's a reason everyone is rolling these 2 classes.

 

 

 

 

Inb4l2play, stop qq, you're bad, can i have your stuff?, WTFZOMGBBQ

 

what is wrong with you dude

[jinzunza]

Inb4l2play, stop qq, you're bad, can i have your stuff?, WTFZOMGBBQ

 

Please

[Modru]

And despite the nerf's I destroy fullly geared BM's of almost any class consistantly.

 

I wear 1/2 cent gear 1/2 champ gear.

 

Why? Because I'm that good at my class.

 

So much so I get hate tells constantly.

 

People ask me how to play operative I tell them PVP a lot.... But they don't understand just how much that is.

 

I average 40 warzones a day. Most people can't even stomach 10.

 

I never lose to my own class scrapper or concealment.

 

I never lose to assassins (which is why I think they need a boost)

 

I destroy tracer spam like I use toilet paper. So much so I can name 15-20 merc BH's who changed their specs because of me.

 

I destroy PT's of any spec without breaking a sweat.

 

I destroy marauders who aren't in full BM gear.

 

No I'm not bragging, I am that ef'ing good at my class.

 

I destroy every JK and SW I go up against save a VERY specific few which I can count on one hand.

 

Ironically their spec of choice.

 

Rage.

 

Love ya man, you know I respect you... But your feeble jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

 

Not this time.

 

Despite all that.

 

Yes I still think smash is OP.

 

 

ah you have revealed the truth finally.

 

theres something that can kill you soooooooo........NERF IT!

 

amiright? haha. ya im right.

 

still waiting on these screenshots or videos of a guardian/jugg hitting for 7k+ in march. you know this month, after all those changes to consumable stacking and the surge nerf.

lets see something recent thats relevant.

 

but you know why you and the OP will never post something like that? because its not possible and its quite clear that your a troll.

 

you know whats even funnier? im a shadow......the class you said that needs a buff remember? and the funny thing is........i don't have a problem fighting rage/focus speced guardians or juggs. in fact theirs not one class im afraid of...... oh and heres the kicker...........im not even a kinetic shadow...

[Darth_Sookie]

Interesting. Because a DPS Jugg thats halfway decent can 9k you in a single smash.

 

hahaha yeah and we shoot lazers out of our eyes.

 

Unlike you, i have tested this with the best possible gear setup against a player with no pvp gear and light armor.

 

76% surge. 460 power. Full Battlemaster with custom mods for max power. 703 expertise.

Warrior + sorc buff. Only buff i didnt have was marauder "bloodlust".

 

The highest smash i could acheive with fully stacked sunders was 7300 with Warzone Adrenal + Battlemaster trinket and 4 stacks of shockwave. This was under ideal conditions.

 

I tried it with the rakata power trinket and with Full Rakata gear aslo.

[Semitote]

Only way I can see 7800+ crits is with 0 surge rating from gear (which means you'll be around 500 expertise and 15k HP) and a surge adrenal + power relic. EDIT: I guess the Marauder buff can probably push it that high as well. But that rarely happens since it's on such a long CD.

 

As far as 7k+ crits, here ya go: http://swlegends.shivtr.com/gallery_images/419965

 

Also had a 7500+ crit that game, but it killed the dude (who was obviously a sorc), so I didn't get full credit for the damage.

 

I'm running Champion Earpiece, Champion Belt, 1 Champion Power Relic.. The rest is BM.. 2 of my BM pieces have the 56 mod from the Champion chest - the helm & gloves have the mod that came with them and one piece has the 58 deft mod, all my enhancements are Advanced Adept Enhancement 25.

 

I've only broken 500k 8 times ever, and all in Voidstar: http://swlegends.shivtr.com/gallery_categories/22391

 

I've never broken 600k, but I know it's possible.

 

I don't exactly have the best spec (according to the elitists who troll the forums): http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/juggernaut/#::ef8ef3dfef24ede3fe2fe9fe:

 

So I'm not getting the free Force Screams.

 

But I have crit Force Screams for 4k+... Maybe 5k, I can't remember.

 

I have hit a 5k Vicious Throw, but only once.

 

 

Good players are hard to kill. You have to catch them with CD's down in order to destroy them. Shadows typically burn their yellow-skin cooldown as soon as I apply my Force Crush. Sorcs (and maybe other classes) can also dispel it I hear. This is why I typically will find a non SI/JC to put my Crush on while I attack the SI/JC (though Crush can do roughly 5k damage, so it may slow down the killing of my current target). Almost everyone will use their cc break ability if it's up to pop out and stun or push me back to interrupt Force Choke.

 

Key thing to remember when going up against a JK/Jugg is that their 4-piece gives them 10% bonus damage for 5 seconds after a Force Charge/Leap. This means that more than likely a Smash should come directly after the Force Charge/Leap - so that is the best time to CC them. Players who charge and then choke or crush are doing it wrong under most circumstances, but cc'ing them has the same effect as cc'ing someone who has 4 stacks - but they don't even get their 4 stacks when you cc them. Our only stun is channeled and on a one minute CD (50 seconds talented, but I don't talent that). We also have an AoE fear that lasts 6 seconds but breaks on damage - Some people will use this before their smash to guarantee it hits, but it's a risky move if anyone else is attacking the same target or if your target's teammates know what's coming and CC us.

 

Rage Juggernaut is all about taking advantage of your opponents mistakes (such as clumping together, not CC'ing after a charge, etc.) - or taking advantage of your opponents when their CDs are down. It is the only way we can deal damage. If you have a group that has a ton of knockbacks and roots, we can be controlled harder than any class.

 

If Smash is nerfed, then we need more ways to break roots. Force Charge and Obliterate will need to break roots to rebalance it. Have it as a talent in the Rage tree. I'll gladly take that tradeoff.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Semitote

[Endusima]

Nerf smash, buff something else.

[FalmeseReb]

It's not practical to dodge each smash when you have 3-4 Smash knights a game whilst being cc'd. Let's get real. That strat is fine and dandy 1v1, but to execute that in WZs while capping nodes isn't going to happen.

 

yeah, you should be able to dodge 4 people at once np.

[Obie_Wan]

Force leap, choke, force push, force leap, smash.

 

Oh look at that... 0/13/28 I can now insure that I never ever ever get knocked back again, after I force leap to you, with my improved force leap and 100 percent push back immunity, I wont even get into my insta crit smashes....

 

Seems like it would be easy, but.... He force chokes you, you trinket, and pushback, he force pushes you, leaps, and smashes. Your eating the smash one way or another on any halfway competent player.

 

By going that spec you've basically rendered your smash bombs to every 50 seconds because you gave up on the 31 pointer which would've given you a smash bomb every 19 seconds. It looks great on paper, but far from practical.

 

The people on the forums are behind the curve when it comes to the next beastly OP specs.

 

Do you know that DPS Powertech/Vanguard that are properly geared can pretty much demolish you within 10 seconds? Their DoTs and plethora of tech attacks + 90% armour penetrating rail shots are staggeringly powerful. Right now the community still doesn't know how to properly maximizing their stats.

 

The ones that do are hitting for 5.7k crit on HiB + DoTs + Tech attacks. The thing about Powertech and Vanguard is that most of them don't do it in one massive chunk, which helps puts them under the threat radar compared to Operatives/Juggernauts. Not a lot of people are playing them either because most people prefer to shoot missiles out their back. They're like DPS Assassins except with a way heavier armour, a VERY good survivability CD on a VERY reasonable CD. They'll deliver their damage in a sustained series of attacks hitting for 2k -> 3k -> 2k -> 5k plus DoTs ticking away within the span of 4 seconds. Much quicker than the setup it takes for a Smash Juggernaut.

 

You guys haven't even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. We'll see you a month from now when you've caught up. In the meantime the rest of us who're ahead of the curve will try to figure out how to counter the insane walking death machine that is the DPS Powertech/Vanguard.

[Lostpharoah]

So, every game I play against the republic now consists of 5 sages and 3 smash spec'd jedi knights.

 

There's a reason everyone is rolling these 2 classes.

 

 

 

 

Inb4l2play, stop qq, you're bad, can i have your stuff?, WTFZOMGBBQ

 

!!! Troll !!!

 

for real the JK pur DPS class's ONLY ability. Wow this has gotta be a joke .. yeah nerf that and JK focus spec is reduced to complete uselessness, as that spec is already pretty useless ..

 

This thread is nothing but a trolling .. seriously if you cant handle a JK then wow you have bigger problems to worry about.

[EternalFinality]

As a Sentinel, I like to use my CC breaker and Force Camouflage in the middle of their "combo" after they use the Force Push and before they leap to me. They just stand there looking confused.

[Halefthaut]

Interesting. Because a DPS Jugg thats halfway decent can 9k you in a single smash.

 

The Troll is strong in this one

[Obie_Wan]

The Troll is strong in this one

 

Ya think?

 

That guy somehow came to the conclusion that by not taking the 31 point Focus talent in lieu of Unremitting somehow turns the Focus bomber into an even greater threat. He has below average understanding of the class, and/or very little logical thinking process on this issue.

 

If you guys think Smash/Sweep bombing is bad, wait until you start seeing more properly geared DPS Powertechs and Vanguards in the warzones. Suddenly the 19 seconds in between force bombs and completely transparent set ups will pale in comparison to the massive damage they'll be eating with non stopping or escape from these extremely durable death machines.

[Magdain]

By going that spec you've basically rendered your smash bombs to every 50 seconds because you gave up on the 31 pointer which would've given you a smash bomb every 19 seconds. It looks great on paper, but far from practical.

 

The people on the forums are behind the curve when it comes to the next beastly OP specs.

 

Do you know that DPS Powertech/Vanguard that are properly geared can pretty much demolish you within 10 seconds? Their DoTs and plethora of tech attacks + 90% armour penetrating rail shots are staggeringly powerful. Right now the community still doesn't know how to properly maximizing their stats.

 

The ones that do are hitting for 5.7k crit on HiB + DoTs + Tech attacks. The thing about Powertech and Vanguard is that most of them don't do it in one massive chunk, which helps puts them under the threat radar compared to Operatives/Juggernauts. Not a lot of people are playing them either because most people prefer to shoot missiles out their back. They're like DPS Assassins except with a way heavier armour, a VERY good survivability CD on a VERY reasonable CD. They'll deliver their damage in a sustained series of attacks hitting for 2k -> 3k -> 2k -> 5k plus DoTs ticking away within the span of 4 seconds. Much quicker than the setup it takes for a Smash Juggernaut.

 

You guys haven't even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. We'll see you a month from now when you've caught up. In the meantime the rest of us who're ahead of the curve will try to figure out how to counter the insane walking death machine that is the DPS Powertech/Vanguard.

 

Your argument is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Just because there are other overpowered spec (even if they are more overpowered than you), doesn't mean that your spec is fine. Yes, many specs do entirely too much damage- I can name 4 off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean this issue get a free pass when it comes to balance discussion.

 

 

I honestly don't know enough about the spec as a whole (nor do I have enough experience fighting them), but it's very apparent that smash (the individual ability itself) is a balance problem right now, and it will only become more apparent as time goes on. The problem with the ability is that it is 100% reliable, hits far too hard, and cannot be countered when used properly.

 

I'm not talking about some idiot that tunnel visions the same target for 25 seconds then crits them with smash. I'm talking about somebody that attacks a target to build up buff stacks, charges to a person who is now unable to move, and uses smash before it is physically impossible for them to react to the charge. Smash is an ability that gives you on demand 5k+ damage to any individual target within 30 meters.

 

What does this mean right now when a competent 4 man team (not to even speak of future 8 man teams) runs 2 or more rage specced warriors? They can kill any full health target within 30 meters in 2 globals. This is impossible to predict, impossible to counter, fairly easy to execute, and completely dumb gameplay.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Magdain

[TOGFelix]

is everyone rolling those 2 classes? then where's all the missile spam coming from?

 

What you MEAN to say is, "MY class can't pwn everyone, please nerf everyone but me so i can roxxor"

 

^ This

[Badlander]

So, every game I play against the republic now consists of 5 sages and 3 smash spec'd jedi knights.

 

There's a reason everyone is rolling these 2 classes.

 

 

 

 

l2play, stop qq, you're bad, can i have your stuff?, WTFZOMGBBQ

 

Corrected

[Helig]

Ya think?

 

That guy somehow came to the conclusion that by not taking the 31 point Focus talent in lieu of Unremitting somehow turns the Focus bomber into an even greater threat. He has below average understanding of the class, and/or very little logical thinking process on this issue.

 

This post is correct.

 

A +100% bomb every 9 seconds for 3 cycles and +75% bombs every 9 seconds for subsequent cycles while Choke\Stasis is on c\d, or Unremitting+one +100% bomb every 50 seconds.

 

Unremitting is kind of overrated everywhere outside Huttball (you can still jump back one level up with Zealous Leap\Obliterate, or infinite levels using charge or friendly leap), and the pushback\CC threat can be overcome via experience (or leet skeelz, as some people prefer to put it).

Edited March 9, 2012 by Helig

[BrutalPain]

Your argument is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Just because there are other overpowered spec (even if they are more overpowered than you), doesn't mean that your spec is fine. Yes, many specs do entirely too much damage- I can name 4 off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean this issue get a free pass when it comes to balance discussion.

 

 

I honestly don't know enough about the spec as a whole (nor do I have enough experience fighting them), but it's very apparent that smash (the individual ability itself) is a balance problem right now, and it will only become more apparent as time goes on. The problem with the ability is that it is 100% reliable, hits far too hard, and cannot be countered when used properly.

 

I'm not talking about some idiot that tunnel visions the same target for 25 seconds then crits them with smash. I'm talking about somebody that attacks a target to build up buff stacks, charges to a person who is now unable to move, and uses smash before it is physically impossible for them to react to the charge. Smash is an ability that gives you on demand 5k+ damage to any individual target within 30 meters.

 

What does this mean right now when a competent 4 man team (not to even speak of future 8 man teams) runs 2 or more rage specced warriors? They can kill any full health target within 30 meters in 2 globals. This is impossible to predict, impossible to counter, fairly easy to execute, and completely dumb gameplay.

 

You said you don'T know enough about the spec and you dont have enough experience fighting them. Too bad on my server premades have enough experience and they know enough about the spec and they can counter it fairly easily. Thats why i reroll to immortal as soon as i can.

[Chaosmagistrate]

What does this mean right now when a competent 4 man team (not to even speak of future 8 man teams) runs 2 or more rage specced warriors? They can kill any full health target within 30 meters in 2 globals. This is impossible to predict, impossible to counter, fairly easy to execute, and completely dumb gameplay.

 

So your complaint is that two Ragernauts on vent, who coordinate their timing and chokes, get their 4stacks, mark and sync a target, then leap and double Smash is OP?

 

How is that any different than dual Concealment Ops training people? Or double Marks Snipers an target assists? Or double Pyro PT with uber-procs?

[Vikassi]

i think the repubs are overpowered for a reason, and we all know its the balance issue ..

[bicuspid]

unremitting is a good talent, but usually the people who say it is a "must have" are people who trinket out of the first sap they receive

 

its a good skill. it is not the only way to go though, and it is definitely not worth switching for force exhaust.

 

 

as far as the thread goes, OP needs to l2p. i can bomb pugs who don't know what they're doing for 700k on VS, but against the premades who are good on our server, i get maybe 400-500k instead

 

and the arguement of "oh well its hard to dodge when there are 4 warriors doing it" is retarded. you can take any skill in the game, then multiply it by 4 people doing it, and its harder to deal with.

Edited March 9, 2012 by bicuspid