PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[DarthKhaos]

If you dont want trends, numbers, and statistics driving your game play....well..

 

 

DONT PLAY AN MMORPG!!!

Let me get this straight. Massively Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING Game is based on trends, numbers and statistics.

 

Do you even know the origin of the genre? It wasn't from number crunching.

[ChrisJanM]

without full combat metrics, the hardcore crowd will never be happy.

 

Without the hardcore crowd, this game will not last very long.

 

and all the while the casuals can just choose not to use logs and everyone will be happy.

 

Can you explain why a game will not last very long without (self-proclaimed) hardcore crowd? Do you think the press will not publish articles anymore? Do you think Gamebreaker TV will stop discussing The Old Republic online?

 

I'm really interested in your answer.

 

I played WoW from vanilla till a month ago. Did a fair amount of heroics as a healer and take some pride that in more than 90% of the cases the groups I was in didn't wipe. And I never ever needed Recount or other add-ons to improve. Reading Forums where more experience healers explained the mechanisms was enough.Well, I must say that I never raided as a healer, so I can't judge the need of combat logs there.

I think the solution BW offers suffices. EJ's will analyse the numbers, forums will be filled with their analysis and recommendations etc. That will be enough for me to improve, I'm sure.

[GalacticKegger]

combat logs used in a raid group provide accountability, how so? rather than having to watch and babysit 8-16 other people in the raid you can refer to the log to see who has been messing up. having to waste an attempt to sit there and watch someone rather than pull it up from a data source that is unbiased and true to the last number saves a great deal of time, and prevents drama in a group. lets say I watch player A stand in mechanic B, i tell him hes doing it and his immediate reply is "no i didn't" i tell him that i watched him do it and he further repeats "no" i have no way to prove what happened without a full combat log. if I had a combat log I could pull up the data and state what happened, as well as provide an exact time to when it happened.

 

it's not the raid leaders job to be on top of the raid to better themselves as players, its his job to make strategies based on how well his raiders should be performing. they shouldn't be carried through nightmare modes and the best way to tell who deserves a raid spot or not is the math and hard data behind what happened in the encounter says that they performed well. a combat log is a tool for someone who seeks to improve themselves, pump out as much healing or damage they can during a boss fight, that is what makes a good raider good. the way they want to play is the right way. and players that want to do this are seriously hindered due to people wanting to live in ignorance

 

check....

Personal experience does not equate to fact. Stats & numbers (i.e. the same data the pro-log folks are asking for) or it's all opinion.

[Englefield]

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame.

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics turn regular players into egotistical e-peeners.

 

 

FYI One of those wasn't a fact

 

FACT: All content has been cleared without your precious combat log.

 

Perhaps you need them, but it appears the real harcore players of this game are getting by without them. To the good players they were not needed.

 

Try again.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Englefield

[Charliff]

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame.

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics turn regular players into egotistical e-peeners.

 

 

FYI One of those wasn't a fact

 

FACT: All content in the game currently gets cleared without any need for a real combat log so they arent really useful or needed in the endgame of the Old Republic.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Charliff

[Drewser]

again, i've been in this since the very first thread.

 

It's not about personal preference, it's about the health and longevity of a game i would love to see succeed.

 

Then you have read the various reasons given against public logs.

 

BTW, real time logs in or out will not have a major impact on the longevity of the game.

[Retzilla]

No. Go back and review them yourself. If you are too lazy to do that, that is your issue, not mine.

 

look I've gone through the last 90 pages and even OP's with a quote against them still rambling. I would like to see what you people consider a logical argument against it

[Hupepak]

Sigh at all the people who dont want combat log. Combat logs will allow us to know more about the mechanics in the game, and thus, improve our knowledge of the game. It will also help the devs in terms of data gathering. If you dont want combat log it's like you dont want technological progress in the real world. You rather be a caveman huh?

[GalacticKegger]

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame.

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics turn regular players into egotistical e-peeners.

 

FYI One of those wasn't a fact

Actually they're all fiction because there's no quantifiable data to support any of them. Edited March 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Charliff]

It will also help the devs in terms of data gathering.

 

I am quite sure the devs don't need to implement a real combat log like some players want. They get their numbers already more detailed than a log ever will be.

[Retzilla]

FACT: All content has been cleared without your precious combat log.

 

Perhaps you need them, but it appears the real harcore players of this game are getting by without them. To the good players they were not needed.

 

Try again.

 

this content is a JOKE, every nightmare mode is laughable and this is coming from a player who has done every single nightmare mode and compared it to several tiers of raiding across several MMO's including FFXI

[Lijun]

I want combat logs so I have an idea of what talents and rotations are best for my classes/roles/specs.

 

How can a tiny little MMO like Rift get so many things right with so much smaller of a budget and this company cant give simple MMO standards like: Combat logs and Macros?

 

I enjoy this game, but I do see them failing in way and I really wish they didnt, because it can cost them precious players and without players MMOs die quick.

[Matte_Black]

Sigh at all the people who dont want combat log. Combat logs will allow us to know more about the mechanics in the game, and thus, improve our knowledge of the game. It will also help the devs in terms of data gathering. If you dont want combat log it's like you dont want technological progress in the real world. You rather be a caveman huh?

 

You might want to read a bit closer. It's a small minority calling for no combat logs. Most here are against BioWare expanding them beyond their proposed patch 1.2 ones.

[DarthKhaos]

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame.

 

FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character.

FACT: Private combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame.

 

FACT: Private combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character.

 

Would you look at that...

[CaMiCaZiE]

This is a fallacy.

 

In fact I would argue the opposite. If developers did not let you see "behind the curtain", it is harder to figure out how to overcome difficult encounters.

 

without knowing what dps your raid can do, how can you make a boss be both a decent dps challenge at same time as a coordination challenge?

 

you can only make a guess. if you raided in the current content you have seen how easy it is. our dps is much higher than it needs to be. i would assume bioware doesnt know what we can do. or maybe they are just making it a casual cheese walk.

 

1.2 will show what bioware intend for the raiding of this game. wether they want it to be free loot or actually a challenge/reward system. the latter is much more fun and longer lasting.

 

what you argue is only true if players are subpar. if half your raid is made of decent players, they will perform close to omptimum already, without the meteres. the other half doesnt know and they need help. we need meters to get them up to scratch.

[Drewser]

Sigh at all the people who dont want combat log. Combat logs will allow us to know more about the mechanics in the game, and thus, improve our knowledge of the game. It will also help the devs in terms of data gathering. If you dont want combat log it's like you dont want technological progress in the real world. You rather be a caveman huh?

 

HUH? Giving us logs does not impact one way or the other how the Devs are gathering data.

[Retzilla]

Actually they're all fiction because there's no quantifiable data to support any of them.

 

johnny gets hit by a rock that does 10k damage, the log isnt quantifiable data and therefore is fiction, johnny therefore didnt get hit by a rock, and did not lose 10k health

[Evironrage]

People interested in masking their performance or not interested in bettering their own play can choose to play with like-minded individuals.

 

This. The more detailed the information available the better imho. Ops angst (which some call Elitism) is spawn from playing with those who have an interest in being carried. I prefer my comrades know what they need to work on to improve over all Ops performance. Players that are scared of information have always confused me. Oh well.

[Quraswren]

again, i've been in this since the very first thread.

 

It's not about personal preference, it's about the health and longevity of a game i would love to see succeed.

 

It's all about personal preference for this thread.

 

However, biowares decision is not personal. The combat logs and meters should stay the way BW has designed them.

 

It fits more people into the bell curve than not having them as well as having full blown real time.

 

You can hardly get better than that and get the most out of it in the grand bell-curve of players in the game and you always throw out the outliers (players on both ends)

 

Thats called making a smart decision for the best fit benefit of the gaming population.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Quraswren

[GalacticKegger]

this content is a JOKE, every nightmare mode is laughable and this is coming from a player who has done every single nightmare mode and compared it to several tiers of raiding across several MMO's including FFXI

January began your community membership ... new to the game or just the forums? If January is when you began playing, would you please be so kind as to share how you cleared Nightmare Mode already? Welcome either way! Edited March 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Daellia]

So, you were not very clear. Are you talking about a guild raid, or a PUG raid????

 

If it is a guild raid, then it's not a very good guild if they do not take into account the fact that they need to rotate in, support, assist, and tolerate a new raid player. That is how guilds build stronger members, and every guild I have been in is very much focuses on this.

 

If it's a PUG raid, well, enough said. Most PUG raids are full of socially terribad people who could care less about anyone but themselves, don't socialize, are intolerant, and just want their lootz asap so they can PUG another round. This is also where most harrassment and abuse takes place using in game damage monitoring tools.

 

I was referring to a PuG, not a guild raid. Guild raids can intentionally sacrifice a bit of performance and carry a newer, less experienced, or undergeared member through as an investment in future raids. It doesn't make sense for PuGs to do this.

[Drewser]

without knowing what dps your raid can do, how can you make a boss be both a decent dps challenge at same time as a coordination challenge?

 

you can only make a guess. if you raided in the current content you have seen how easy it is. our dps is much higher than it needs to be. i would assume bioware doesnt know what we can do. or maybe they are just making it a casual cheese walk.

 

1.2 will show what bioware intend for the raiding of this game. wether they want it to be free loot or actually a challenge/reward system. the latter is much more fun and longer lasting.

 

what you argue is only true if players are subpar. if half your raid is made of decent players, they will perform close to omptimum already, without the meteres. the other half doesnt know and they need help. we need meters to get them up to scratch.

 

Your assumptions are 100% wrong. They know exactly how much damage we are doing.

 

Furthermore, players getting logs, has ZERO to do with how tough developers could make the content. They could make bosses unbeatable or a cakewalk or anything in between.

[GalacticKegger]

johnny gets hit by a rock that does 10k damage, the log isnt quantifiable data and therefore is fiction, johnny therefore didnt get hit by a rock, and did not lose 10k health

That's not data, that's relaying an experience. How do we know it was a rock and not, say ... a water ballon? How do we know Johnny didn't only get wet instead of taking damage? We don't - we have to take your word for it. And that's the whole point. Edited March 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Retzilla]

January began your community membership ... new to the game or just the forums? Welcome either way! If January is when you began playing, would you please be so kind as to share how you cleared Nightmare Mode already?

 

my guild rerolled in and hit 50 in 1 month, and about 5 days in /played, we cleared normals in 1 week, cleared HM the next, cleared nightmare mode next, I have footage of our raid night in EV nightmare and us 1 shotting 3 of the encounters and 2shotting one.

[VeetorDaal]

No...