Color Wars!

[testszag]

Looking for any consistency in this ill-conceived fantasy universe was your first mistake OP.

 

 

What is it again? This game takes place 3,000 years before the movies? And we are running around in the same burlap hoods they are? In the same galaxy? Yeah.......... about that..........

 

well, if you look at many of the monk orders, they have used the same dress for quite a long time. it's not incnceivable that the look would be pretty much the same.

[DragonSentry]

^^ for a few hundred years.

 

And our monks aren't space faring "scientists" with powers to levitate objects and who will stab you with a beam of light that is capable of choosing it's own end point.

[Kindara]

It has been conclusively shown in the movies and the EU that Jedi and Sith can use sabers that aren't the traditional colors. Granting it was rare, but it was done, by Anakin, Obi Wan, and Vader in ROTJ.

 

You are suggesting a change that makes it impossible to do what has been shown in the movies.

 

So to protect against the possibility that people might violate what you consider the lore established in the movies and the EU, you are suggesting something that 100% undeniably violates the lore that is seen in the EU and the movies.

 

So you're suggesting BW should violate the lore to protect the lore?

 

On a side note, I'll ask yet again a question that nobody has addressed.... Han Solo is the most famous smuggler in the movies. He has always used red blaster bolts. You are suggesting a system that makes it impossible for me to use red laser bolts with my smuggler. If the lore is so important to you, why is that okay with you?

 

^^ This

 

 

oh and ^^ This on a few above posts except the Hood / cloak issue. The SWTOR ones atleast get armor and other wrappings its way more boring in the Prequal & Original Trilogy. Still it makes sense if your going after their clothes. Hell the Pope's been wearing the same thing for hundreds of years. Sometimes I wonder if the Pope is the same pope from thousands of years ago as well they always are certaintly male and ancient :/

 

Im ready for some special edition pink or something that fires off sparkles to really make the OP & Loanstar's day. It'd certaintly make mine (not really but I still wouldn't care even if it would be Bizarre to see in star wars).

Edited March 10, 2012 by Kindara

[Laufton]

^^ for a few hundred years.

 

And our monks aren't space faring "scientists" with powers to levitate objects and who will stab you with a beam of light that is capable of choosing it's own end point.

Thank you for cracking me up.

[loanstarr]

It has been conclusively shown in the movies and the EU that Jedi and Sith can use sabers that aren't the traditional colors. Granting it was rare, but it was done, by Anakin, Obi Wan, and Vader in ROTJ.

 

You are suggesting a change that makes it impossible to do what has been shown in the movies.

 

So to protect against the possibility that people might violate what you consider the lore established in the movies and the EU, you are suggesting something that 100% undeniably violates the lore that is seen in the EU and the movies.

 

So you're suggesting BW should violate the lore to protect the lore?

 

On a side note, I'll ask yet again a question that nobody has addressed.... Han Solo is the most famous smuggler in the movies. He has always used red blaster bolts. You are suggesting a system that makes it impossible for me to use red laser bolts with my smuggler. If the lore is so important to you, why is that okay with you?

 

by your own admission you say it was rare. I would argue very rare. So do you think when everyone can do whatever they want its following that logic?? No it wont, it will be common, completely destroying the precedent that has existed for years.

[Viera]

by your own admission you say it was rare. I would argue very rare. So do you think when everyone can do whatever they want its following that logic?? No it wont, it will be common, completely destroying the precedent that has existed for years.

 

Your argument is based on a stance where the player-characters a majority. They simply aren't. The majority is all the NPC's you will encounter, the Sith NPC's using Red and Purple, the Jedi NPC's using Green, Blue, Yellow, whatever.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't common. Just because you're choosing to ignore all the NPC characters to support your argument doesn't invalidate them.

[Viera]

did you read the OP? the EU is discussed. And every example you could point out is a "rare" occurrence not a common one. How are people missing that? When 1.2 drops every player out there will have different colored lightsabers making a hideous eyesore that is not represented in anything StarWars.

 

And choices are supposed to have meaning. light vs dark, blue/green vs red. thats what makes things interesting and drives story telling. Which BW supposedly cares about.

 

By the way, your idea of a story is depressingly limited if you feel that 'blue/green vs red' is the main driving point...

[loanstarr]

FALSE.

 

A LOT of Force users across an expansive timeline. Many KOTOR-era/TOR-era Jedi used yellow. Purple was also common. In the NJO era, purple, bronze, orange, yellow, silver, and more are COMMON among Luke's Jedi Order.

 

What 10, 20? out of how many across all story lines? The only thing that is false is your ridiculous assertion that everyone had different colors.

 

 

...ignores COMPLETELY the fact that OUR CHARACTERS are interesting, stand out, unique. The Jedi Knight story, the Consular story, Warrior, Inquisitor... THEY ARE ALL OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS..

 

Yes your such an individual when you get to the fleet and everyone is carrying lightsabers, same with warzones, etc Do you actually think having a special color will mean squat when everyone else has one?

 

 

Oh, and we can deny the distinction, because it HASN'T alwas existed. Originally, all sabers were to be white. Heck, even before THAT, just about EVERYONE in Star Wars was supposed to have lightsabers, from Han Solo to the Stormtroopers.

 

Red and blue only came about to tell the two saber-wielders apart. It was an arbitrary choice of colors. Green was only introduced because the first major action sequence in Return of the Jedi featured many shots with a blue sky background, making the blue blade blend in. If Vader were fighting on a world with a red sky, his blade color probably would've changed, too.

 

And who cares why the distinction exists? The fact is every expansion of starwars is based on the movies of the original vision by George Lucas. Where good guys use blue/green and bad use red.

[loanstarr]

By the way, your idea of a story is depressingly limited if you feel that 'blue/green vs red' is the main driving point...

you ever seen a western? good guys wear white hats, bad wear black. Its not a main driving point but its a common theme that exists in many stories.

[loanstarr]

Your argument is based on a stance where the player-characters a majority. They simply aren't. The majority is all the NPC's you will encounter, the Sith NPC's using Red and Purple, the Jedi NPC's using Green, Blue, Yellow, whatever.

 

nonsense. go to the fleet, go play a warzone. The places where players hang out they far outweight NPC's.

 

And if the NPC's follow the rule set as you state then why would it make any sense for players to differ?

[Vecke]

by your own admission you say it was rare. I would argue very rare. So do you think when everyone can do whatever they want its following that logic?? No it wont, it will be common, completely destroying the precedent that has existed for years.

 

I've explained many times in this thread how it will still be rare, so I'm not doing that again.

 

But just for fun, let's just concede your point. That it should be VERY rare.

 

You still didn't answer either of my questions.

 

Why are you asking BW to absolutely 100% violate lore in a way that everybody on both sides agrees is a violation of lore, just to prevent some people from going against lore that isn't agreed upon?

 

And Han Solo is the most famous smuggler in the movies. He has always used red blaster bolts. You are suggesting a system that makes it impossible for me to use red laser bolts with my smuggler. If the lore is so important to you, why is that okay with you?

 

You're asking BW to do exactly what you're here arguing against them doing. Why?

[Viera]

nonsense. go to the fleet, go play a warzone. The places where players hang out they far outweight NPC's.

 

And if the NPC's follow the rule set as you state then why would it make any sense for players to differ?

 

I've just come to the conclusion that you're probably not worth it.

 

But let me put it this way. Every player character is as unique if not more so as all those 'rare examples' of people using different lightsaber colors (which isn't so rare, as in the New Jedi Order they all used Synthetic Crystals and whatever colors they could get their hands on).

 

Not to mention the worlds of evidence of colors mean absolutely nothing, including a direct quote from a Jedi saying that the color of a lightsaber guarantees nothing.

 

By the way :

 

http://www.deep-focus.com/assets_c/2010/08/1764_django-thumb-728x438-1680.jpg

 

http://cdn-images.hollywood.com/site/eastwood_good_ugly.jpg

 

You're still not even looking at it in the big picture. Even on the fleet, even on the warzones, the player characters are STILL A MINORITY OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. You can't claim that "SUDDENLY EVERYONE EVER IS BREAKING TRADITION" when there is a few hundred people out of tens of thousands standing on a space station with different colors. That is just assuming everyone on the fleet is a Jedi using a non-traditional lightsaber color.

[Vecke]

You're still not even looking at it in the big picture. Even on the fleet, even on the warzones, the player characters are STILL A MINORITY OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. You can't claim that "SUDDENLY EVERYONE EVER IS BREAKING TRADITION" when there is a few hundred people out of tens of thousands standing on a space station with different colors. That is just assuming everyone on the fleet is a Jedi using a non-traditional lightsaber color.

 

I've made this point a dozen times and it continually gets ignored. Their premise is simply incorrect.

 

But even if they were correct (which they aren't), their solution is asking BW to violate lore to counter-act what they think is a violation of lore. How does violating the lore help the lore?

[loanstarr]

I've explained many times in this thread how it will still be rare, so I'm not doing that again.

There is no explanation; if everyone has it by definition it’s not rare.

 

Why are you asking BW to absolutely 100% violate lore

if they keep to the established rule set how are they violating it?

in a way that everybody on both sides agrees is a violation of lore, just to prevent some people from going against lore that isn't agreed upon?

What? Who agreed on, your speaking for everyone now?

 

And Han Solo is the most famous smuggler in the movies. He has always used red blaster bolts. You are suggesting a system that makes it impossible for me to use red laser bolts with my smuggler. If the lore is so important to you, why is that okay with you?

I don’t give a toss about blasters. They exist in hundreds of different movies. The lightsaber is iconic to starwars and so is the color scheme.

And I could easily ask you, why have any difference in between factions with that logic. I’m republic but I like empire ships better, therefore I should have one and their armor too.

[loanstarr]

I've just come to the conclusion that you're probably not worth it.

 

But let me put it this way. Every player character is as unique if not more so as all those 'rare examples' of people using different lightsaber colors (which isn't so rare, as in the New Jedi Order they all used Synthetic Crystals and whatever colors they could get their hands on).

 

Not to mention the worlds of evidence of colors mean absolutely nothing, including a direct quote from a Jedi saying that the color of a lightsaber guarantees nothing.

 

By the way :

 

http://www.deep-focus.com/assets_c/2010/08/1764_django-thumb-728x438-1680.jpg

 

http://cdn-images.hollywood.com/site/eastwood_good_ugly.jpg

 

You're still not even looking at it in the big picture. Even on the fleet, even on the warzones, the player characters are STILL A MINORITY OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. You can't claim that "SUDDENLY EVERYONE EVER IS BREAKING TRADITION" when there is a few hundred people out of tens of thousands standing on a space station with different colors. That is just assuming everyone on the fleet is a Jedi using a non-traditional lightsaber color.

 

Oh i get it, your talking about the perception of your story in the game. You dont get i'm saying its irrelevant because the reality everyone will have a different color. Your still going to be massed with numerous other players in game all force users wielding lightsabers. I know that a sith using anything other than red is very rare but the reality will be different.

[Frostvein]

For the last time -

 

 

Just beause you think it violates the lore doesn't mean that it does.

 

We don't know how many Jedi in the EU used different saber colors outside of the 3 or 4 common ones, but what we do know is that there are enough examples of Jedi using other colors to justify allowing them in the game.

 

It doesn't matter if you like it.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with it.

it doesn't matter if you think it violates the lore.

 

Lucas himself said it doesn't matter, you wanna go tell him he is wrong?

[Vecke]

There is no explanation; if everyone has it by definition it’s not rare.

 

You're saying everyone will do this? I won't. You won't. Everyone that agrees with you won't. The tens of thousands of NPCs won't.

 

if they keep to the established rule set how are they violating it?

 

In the lore, it is not impossible for a Sith to use a blue lightsaber. Even you said it's rare. It's not impossible. You're asking BW to make it impossible. That is a violation of lore.

 

What? Who agreed on, your speaking for everyone now?

 

Find one person that says in the movies it's physically impossible for a Sith to use a blue lightsaber. Not rare, but impossible. Find one single person. Everyone agrees because it's a fact. Nobody is arguing that fact.

 

 

I don’t give a toss about blasters. They exist in hundreds of different movies. The lightsaber is iconic to starwars and so is the color scheme.

And I could easily ask you, why have any difference in between factions with that logic. I’m republic but I like empire ships better, therefore I should have one and their armor too.

 

 

And with this post, I'm done debating this with you, as there is no point.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Vecke

[OpticRefit]

I can just create a Role-playing based reason why my Sith Sorceror's purple-bladed saber, which will also include my pre-50 leveling with a red saber to boot!

 

 

Due to the corrupted energies of the Dark Side constantly flowing through the Sorceror whenever he/she summoned bolts of force lightning, the original bright-red synthetic crystal embedded inside his/her lightsaber, over a significant period of time, began to take on hue similar to the corrupted purple of Sith-summoned lightning.

 

That work?

[BlazingShadow]

This is an issue that does not affect the color-blind.

[loanstarr]

For the last time -

 

 

Just beause you think it violates the lore doesn't mean that it does.

 

and just because you think it doesnt violate the lore doesn't ....

 

We don't know how many Jedi in the EU used different saber colors outside of the 3 or 4 common ones, but what we do know is that there are enough examples of Jedi using other colors to justify allowing them in the game.

 

we know that its rare and it really doesnt matter because the movies already set the precedent.

 

It doesn't matter if you like it.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with it.

it doesn't matter if you think it violates the lore.

 

Welcome to the forum of public opinion. feel free to express yours while I continue to express mine

 

Lucas himself said it doesn't matter, you wanna go tell him he is wrong?

It doesnt matter whether he created it intentionally or un-intentionally, the fact is it does exist and has for a lot longer than this game has been around.

[loanstarr]

You're saying everyone will do this? I won't. You won't. Everyone that agrees with you won't. The tens of thousands of NPCs won't.

I think you grossly underestimate the number of players that will do it just because they can and those that want to spit on the lore for lulz.

 

In the lore, it is not impossible for a Sith to use a blue lightsaber. Even you said it's rare. It's not impossible. You're asking BW to make it impossible. That is a violation of lore.

I never said it should be impossible. In fact there was an existing mechanic in game where players could work to get the opposite faction crystal, which I was fine with. Because it made it what?....”rare”

 

Find one person that says in the movies it's physically impossible for a Sith to use a blue lightsaber. Not rare, but impossible. Find one single person. Everyone agrees because it's a fact. Nobody is arguing that fact.

So? again, I never said it was impossible. Even in the movies it was a rare occurrence that was immediately corrected. Which the OP clearly explains.

[testszag]

I think you grossly underestimate the number of players that will do it just because they can and those that want to spit on the lore for lulz.

 

 

I never said it should be impossible. In fact there was an existing mechanic in game where players could work to get the opposite faction crystal, which I was fine with. Because it made it what?....”rare”

 

 

So? again, I never said it was impossible. Even in the movies it was a rare occurrence that was immediately corrected. Which the OP clearly explains.

 

you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it

[clintcasey]

Synthetic Crystals, it’s a Sith Thang!

 

Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in light sabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration. As a result of their artificial origins, synthetic crystals created more powerful light saber blades and could be more easily augmented. Also, their common usage by Sith and other Darksiders after this discovery caused synthetic crystals to become something of a staple among such groups, and their use among Jedi was strongly discouraged.

 

Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued light saber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades". However, synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging. Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers, most individuals who utilized colors other than red were Darksiders looking to hide their affiliations

 

1. But Exar Kun had a blue light saber!

Explanation: The lightsaber of Jedi Knight Exar Kun was a device that was initially created to produce a single beam of blue-white energy. However, upon his ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Kun redesigned his lightsaber based on instructions hidden within an antiquated Sith holocron. The finished product was a double-bladed weapon imbued with dark side energy, from which sapphire blades materialized up to 1.5 meters from either end of the hilt.

(Exar Kun had learned long lost secrets from a holocron that forged the look but it is a synthetically made crystal infused with the dark side of the force.) A rarity your character is not significant enough to overshadow and take away the iconic look of this character.

 

2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3!

Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal.

(What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.)

 

3. But Mace Windu had a purple colored crystal!

In the Prequel Trilogy, Mace Windu's unique purple lightsaber was a functional change but Samuel L. Jackson, who played Windu, asked for a lightsaber to match his favorite color, and the distinct shade helped his character stand out on the battlefield from the red, blue, and green of the other lightsabers.

A rarity, nuff said!

 

Jedi used natural crystals!

According to The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force, lightsaber colors originally indicated a Jedi's role in the Order. For example, Jedi Consulars, who focused on non-violence, carried green lightsabers to symbolize peace. Jedi Guardians, on the other hand, carried blue lightsabers as a symbol of uniformity and solidarity.

The lack of lightsaber color variation in the movies is a lack of colored crystals. According to Jedi vs. Sith, the Empire (Past/Present/Future) quarantined or destroyed many sources of lightsaber crystals. This left the Jedi with mostly Ilum crystals, which can only produce green or blue blades.

 

Conclusion

Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions. The symbols of the big three colors are iconic to the faction which they have been displayed upon. Posters, movies, books, cartoons, toys and comics is proof enough that Red is the faction color of the Sith, while Blue/Green is the faction color of the Jedi, regardless of a select few iconic characters.

 

Flame away!

 

Accept for Luke Skywalker who's Green Lightsaber Blade was made from a synthetic crystal that he made on Tatooine.

 

Source: Shadows of the Empire

[Vecke]

So? again, I never said it was impossible. Even in the movies it was a rare occurrence that was immediately corrected. Which the OP clearly explains.

 

Perhaps you should read the OP's conclusion (to which I've said many times that I can respect the OP's point but strongly disagree with his solution).

 

What the OP clearly said was "Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions."

 

This violates lore.

 

If you're in agreement, you're supporting a mechanic that violates lore.

 

If you actually want a system that lets people "earn" opposing crystals, you're not in agreement with the OP. You're actually offering a compromise between the two positions. While I would still disagree with that position, I at least admit it's reasonable.

 

If that's your position, perhaps you should stop saying the OP is right, because the original post concluded that it should be restricted to the opposing faction.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Vecke

[loanstarr]

Perhaps you should read the OP's conclusion (to which I've said many times that I can respect the OP's point but strongly disagree with his solution).

 

What the OP clearly said was "Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions."

 

This violates lore.

 

If you're in agreement, you're supporting a mechanic that violates lore.

 

If you actually want a system that lets people "earn" opposing crystals, you're not in agreement with the OP. You're actually offering a compromise between the two positions. While I would still disagree with that position, I at least admit it's reasonable.

 

If that's your position, perhaps you should stop saying the OP is right, because the original post concluded that it should be restricted to the opposing faction.

 

you pulled one statement out of context and disregarded the rest of his post. He clearly mentions exceptions multiple times.

 

and if BW did nothing as the game stands right now those colors are restricted. with an exception that makes it rare.