"Clickers"

[RAVM]

The benefit to being a clicker is obvious, no learning curve, can get into things right away. Taking the time to get used to using the kb for abilties will for sure benefit someone in the long run, the downtime for me is to get used to keybinding and in the beginning, I'll be worse for it than just clicking. I can click my way through PVE content even with my melee DPS character just fine.

The investment would be worth it for any long time MMO player I believe, but for me, I generally play single player RPGs and fps. MMOs are the only kind of game that requires this kind of crazy number of key binds. Other games have far fewer things that need to be spammed in combat, and/or allow pausing anytime to activate something. Mass Effect, for example, has a fraction of the combat abilities, *and* pausing to activate them.

[Delmina]

I never played WoW, so the whole "binding" thing is a bit weird to me. I click and use keyboard for movements but mouse to adjust camera and all that. Doesn't matter much to me since my main is a gunslinger so typically I'm rooted to one place anyways.

 

I did however play ffxi for a long time and I LOVE how movement and camera were used with the number pad and arrow keys. I could do all my moving with one hand quite effectively while using my free hand to use ctrl/alt macros 1-0. It did mean though, that I had some adjustments to make coming to play swtor. Is it possible to bind movement/camera rotation to the numberpad?

 

Also, how does one run with the mouse? It may sound like a dumb question but I've found that a lot of the lingo/methods people take for granted as a known are really hard to decipher or find info on if you haven't played WoW.

[Evan_Gregory]

Hi

 

 

 

That's is just the point. I cannot give u any benefit for being mouseclicker and u cannot give me any benefit for being keybinder. We do exactly the same but on a different way.. so being keybinder or being mouseclicker is not worst / or best.. it only depends on the skill with the method u have. .. so the entire discussion is just pointless.

 

But I can and have given you many benefits.

 

Casting while moving is much more flexible with keybinds.

 

By using keybinds, you should never have to take your eyes off this battle whereas if you click, even if you are good at it, you have to look to get your bearings and a general picture of where your pointer is.

 

Keybinds provide faster activation of abilities due to the fact that your mouse does not have to travel from ability to ability. Not all spells share a global cooldown, and some are crucial for effective play and vary depending on class.

 

For healers in particular, it's a major setback having to click from person to spell over and over while healing multiple targets. Quickness and timing are two of the most important factors for healing, and clickers cannot match that of keybinders for that under any circumstance.

 

For abilities that need to be activated very quickly and unexpectedly, (remove cc ability, any lifesaver abilities a class may have, health pots, cc reducing spells) you lose precious time moving the cursor and clicking in that time of crisis or whatnot. Keybinding could save yours or someone else's life in this aspect.

 

These are all very solid benefits of keybinding that cannot be matched with clicking. I'm not saying a good clicker can't reduce the setbacks of not binding, but an equally skilled binder will almost always be quicker to the gun than the clicker.

 

A sprinter may be super fast at what he does, but just simply can't beat a car in a race.

[Dayln]

Evan is being a dick about it. Everyone else has been respectful. You have been trying to say the other side has no validity and it's an ego thing. Both are wrong.

 

 

Really? I don't see anyone else equating people's postion to an ego trip.

 

You mean the group that wholly against meters, keybinding, and other things that make good players better? Well shucks. (not that I would tell others how to play... unless they started a thread... about said topic... asking for an explaination.....)

 

Of course not. You've not said anything negative about the motives of those who confess keybinding is ultimatly a better means of control.

 

You are wrong on every single point... ready to try again?

 

The ego is obvious, why else would someone care SO MUCH about how another person plays, particularly if they are effective in the way they play? Constantly say how much better they are than others, I have not said that I am, they ( you ) are saying that.

 

Of course I am opposed to meters, and macros, the game is easy enough as it is, we don’t need more nerfs, I am in the majority there as well

 

I have said negative things about people that insist how others play, I have not said anything bad about key binding and playing on the keys instead of clicking stills.

 

Not once, I said I know some very good players that are clickers and keyboarders as well.

 

I would not kick either out of a group, I would however kick someone that is constantly telling others how they are supposed to play.

[XOrionX]

Well "LOS or any of that" are all essential strategies and tactics to play at high skill level.

 

Ignoring that disregards your whole argument.

 

Ok. I'll try and spell this out to you again. I was talking about a specific situation. Imagine for a moment that you are melee.

 

I on the other hand am ranged DPS. I am in the open, with not a whole lot of cover for you to hind behind or LOS me.

 

If you want to damage me, you need to get within YOUR range. However you are still within my range, I can hit you from where I am. I can stand still while you are strafing me and all i have to do is hit one key to turn and follow you while still hitting you with dps.

 

In this particular situation, strafing is worthless.

 

Quit putting words in my mouth. I was talking about something specific, and you start trying to slit hairs that aren’t there.

 

Your argument is invalid because it ha nothing to do with what I had to say. .

[Evan_Gregory]

Ok. I'll try and spell this out to you again. I was talking about a specific situation. Imagine for a moment that you are melee.

 

I on the other hand am ranged DPS. I am in the open, with not a whole lot of cover for you to hind behind or LOS me.

 

If you want to damage me, you need to get within YOUR range. However you are still within my range, I can hit you from where I am. I can stand still while you are strafing me and all i have to do is hit one key to turn and follow you while still hitting you with dps.

 

In this particular situation, strafing is worthless.

 

Quit putting words in my mouth. I was talking about something specific, and you start trying to slit hairs that aren’t there.

 

Your argument is invalid because it ha nothing to do with what I had to say. .

 

Yeah and strafing is also worthless while browsing your bank, what's your point?

 

It has lots of beneficial uses, but is obviously not going to be applicable in every scenario...

[Workerdrone]

By using keybinds, you should never have to take your eyes off this battle whereas if you click, even if you are good at it, you have to look to get your bearings and a general picture of where your pointer is.

 

I shouldn't, but in this game I have to.

At least until they allow me to rearrange my UI, and implement some sort of Power Auras feature.

[XOrionX]

Oh your statement that "strafing is useless" isn't theory?

 

I'm assuming that you have it backed up by facts and examples that prove that you never ever have to strafe and it's "useless"...

 

Again. Since you continue to take everything I say out of conext I am done with you. I was talking about one particular situation and you completely disregard it and think I was making a blanket statment. Nothing you have said applies to my specific point.

 

If you want to have a discussion fine, but if you came to just be an aggressive alpha and thump your chest like a primate then I am done.

 

next time, read for context. K?

Edited March 9, 2012 by XOrionX

[Evan_Gregory]

The benefit to being a clicker is obvious, no learning curve, can get into things right away. Taking the time to get used to using the kb for abilties will for sure benefit someone in the long run, the downtime for me is to get used to keybinding and in the beginning, I'll be worse for it than just clicking. I can click my way through PVE content even with my melee DPS character just fine.

The investment would be worth it for any long time MMO player I believe, but for me, I generally play single player RPGs and fps. MMOs are the only kind of game that requires this kind of crazy number of key binds. Other games have far fewer things that need to be spammed in combat, and/or allow pausing anytime to activate something. Mass Effect, for example, has a fraction of the combat abilities, *and* pausing to activate them.

 

Speaking of Mass Effect; best game I have played in a long while.

[origamikitsune]

I never played WoW, so the whole "binding" thing is a bit weird to me. I click and use keyboard for movements but mouse to adjust camera and all that. Doesn't matter much to me since my main is a gunslinger so typically I'm rooted to one place anyways.

 

I did however play ffxi for a long time and I LOVE how movement and camera were used with the number pad and arrow keys. I could do all my moving with one hand quite effectively while using my free hand to use ctrl/alt macros 1-0. It did mean though, that I had some adjustments to make coming to play swtor. Is it possible to bind movement/camera rotation to the numberpad?

 

Also, how does one run with the mouse? It may sound like a dumb question but I've found that a lot of the lingo/methods people take for granted as a known are really hard to decipher or find info on if you haven't played WoW.

 

Ah, yes. FFXI. How I have missed those controls. Every time I try a new PC game I hope, nay, PRAY that it can be set up that way. But then, mouse support in that game really sucked in almost every respect - even lacking features. So that game, at least, there was an actual technical advantage to keybinding. Not so here. Also, in this game, holding down both left and right mouse buttons will allow you to run to wherever you point the mouse.

 

As to binding to emulate the FF11 style camera/movement, it won't work. The camera and movement controls are different at a fundamental level, namely keyboard controls always run your character in relation to which way the character is facing, not in relationship to the camera. Hopefully this will change in 1.2 or another patch, but for now it is literally impossible.

 

EDIT: Also, in this game, running backwards actually make your character run backwards, instead of turning around and running forwards. It is also slower than running forward, in case you hadn't noticed / experienced that yet.

Edited March 9, 2012 by origamikitsune

[XOrionX]

I am right, no matter what you say. You are wrong, no matter what you say. My playstyle is superior.

 

ftfy

Edited March 9, 2012 by XOrionX

[Dagimpster]

Everyone who clicks because you have 0% chance to turn your character/strafe whilst clicking abilities. Players seasoned with mmos are always goibg to nove away from such behaviour as soon as they are confortable enough to try.

 

strafing with q and e.....turn with a and d.....i have a nagga so i do bind some moves now but i still move through the letters cause i find it better in mmos. i am sure if u are use to the mouse movement then that could be better...

[Astharothtx]

Hi

 

Casting while moving is much more flexible with keybinds.

 

Why? i move my char with wasd, click force choke, rotate camera/rotate my char, select another target(tab+tab) and be ready to do a saber throw before the 1.5 gdc comes to me Maybe is more flexible for you, but is not the rule for all the ppl over the world.

 

By using keybinds, you should never have to take your eyes off this battle whereas if you click, even if you are good at it, you have to look to get your bearings and a general picture of where your pointer is.

 

Everyone needs to take an eye on the spellbar to get remind of coldowns.. i do the same, and i dont need to "look" more often and i dont miss anything on the battle. Ill show u an example. You're playing left 4 dead 2.. and a hunter comes from a rooftop, that rooftop is on the left corner of your screen.. ¿you need to take a look? ¿seriously? .. the reality is can "see" the hunter even if u're not centered in him. Same for the king size spell icons ... well.. icons are easy, are static on the screen and more visible than a hunter

 

 

Keybinds provide faster activation of abilities due to the fact that your mouse does not have to travel from ability to ability. Not all spells share a global cooldown, and some are crucial for effective play and vary depending on class.

 

Again, you, before, says something about "no superspeed" and u're now claiming the same. Maybe keybinds provide "faster" activation for you.. but not for all the ppl. For a guy who scores 4:1 ratio on css "faster" would be click, not press (for example)

 

For healers in particular, it's a major setback having to click from person to spell over and over while healing multiple targets. Quickness and timing are two of the most important factors for healing, and clickers cannot match that of keybinders for that under any circumstance.

 

Never had a healer... but... why click from person to speel?... why not use bars? i've seen a pair of good "click" healers and they click on life grids / spells as hell no matter where the player to heal was.

 

For abilities that need to be activated very quickly and unexpectedly, (remove cc ability, any lifesaver abilities a class may have, health pots, cc reducing spells) you lose precious time moving the cursor and clicking in that time of crisis or whatnot. Keybinding could save yours or someone else's life in this aspect.

 

Again, talking about speed... maybe is faster for you, but not for others. When i say "i click" i mean "i click on everything when i need".. the only thing i need to take care is to practice everytime i remap my "icon set"... the same as you everytime you remap your keybinds.

 

 

These are all very solid benefits of keybinding that cannot be matched with clicking. I'm not saying a good clicker can't reduce the setbacks of not binding, but an equally skilled binder will almost always be quicker to the gun than the clicker.

A sprinter may be super fast at what he does, but just simply can't beat a car in a race.

 

If u gets a guy who scores 5 or 6:1 on a fps... for sure, will get bored on a MMO clicking on screen..

If u say "equally skilled" is equally, they're equal but use different way. Its really hard to understand u can get the same results on a different way?

 

Someone can say "well, to activate my spell 1 i just move 30 milimeters my finger this is fast"... yeah, but to activate the spell 13 to cc,pots,etc,etc? ah, okey, is a bit more away... same on ... and again "fast"... the argument is supposed i cannot use because on a 1.5gdc game makes no sense... is just fun, if u're keybinder u can use the "speed" argument.. if u're mouseclicker u cannot cause the gdc is 1.5...

 

 

So, "the truth is keybind is the best cause is the thing i use. period". Nice arguments.

 

 

End of discussion.

[Sneaky_Minotaur]

I use both clicking and keybings, just depends on the situation which one I use at any given time.

 

One thing I find odd about this discussion is people saying it's easier to use the mouse to move, I don't think this is true. The only advantage the mouse has for movement is the ability to quickly (at least more quickly than turning on the keyboard) change direction. Mind you I recognize that's a huge advantage but still...

 

I frankly find it much, much easier to strafe while clicking. In fact, half the time I end up clicking it's so I can strafe and move more effectively in combat.

 

I also find it annoying how often I mess up the camera angle while using the mouse to move. I know, it's not a big deal and quick as heck to correct but I still find it highly annoying when I'm in a hurry to move and I end up trashing my camera angle (I'd love to have a return to defualt view button to keybind). I should just practice more I suppose.

 

Anyway, I don't think it really matters too much which way you choose. Just practice so you'll be fast and efficient and you'll be fine.

[Dayln]

So, "the truth is keybind is the best cause is the thing i use. period". Nice arguments.

 

 

End of discussion.

 

And that observation is why it is obviously all about ego, and little else

 

Well said!

[Mashy]

if thats how they choose to play who cares?

and to say it is less efficent you should see my wife.. shes a clicker..and one of the best healers i have ever seen. and in pvp shes always hovering around the mid range of players in a game and she doesnt even like pvp i drag her along to heal me...

 

so some clickers can get pretty damned efficent with clicking

 

Well said! My sister in law clicks and is an amazing healer too. To watch her play is really something to behold. I should make a youtube video of her and put this ridiculous argument to bed for good.

[Dayln]

Well said! My sister in law clicks and is an amazing healer too. To watch her play is really something to behold. I should make a youtube video of her and put this ridiculous argument to bed for good.

 

They don’t care if others are successful playing differently than they do, to "win" the argument they have to be right and everyone else has to be wrong.

 

It is all about ego.

 

I use keys for my primary skills and attacks myself, but I don’t belittle a clicker one little bit, I have seen great players doing it either way ( and in a few other ways ) and you should use what works for you, and ignore those telling you that their way is best.

[AislingKerrigan]

I tried key binding most of my 12+ abilities/trinkets I use on my main and it wasn't that efficient. The frustration of having to remember that many key combinations across multiple characters just doesn't outweigh the benefits.

 

With a mix if clicking and keybinding (1,2,3,4 & F,shift+F for taunts) I've had no issue tanking for HM FPs and Operations; and I've had the top spot in WZs more than a few times.

 

To each their own. Just give up trying to force everyone to play your way.

[Wookieluva]

The problem isnt really the DPS/Healing, its the dps/healing WHILE moving thats the problem for clickers. This has become a real issue in fights where you have to move alot, this is why clickers are looked down upon when it comes to gaming.

 

now i have been playing swtor pretty often on my Consular Sage and you know what i have found? none of his dps or healing abilities can be used while moving.... btw what does it matter to anyone how i play my character as long as they dont die while we are in the fp...

[TziganeNZ]

I don't keybind for a couple of reasons - I can't remember which spells are bound to which keys, and my off-hand coordination is complete rubbish (I'm right-handed).

 

I have been a very successful raid healer using mouse clicks in other MMOs (no, I've never played WoW). I don't PvP so no need to change my preferred playstyle. Not that I would because other people expected me to - I do what suits me.

[FalconDroid]

Ah, yes. FFXI. How I have missed those controls. Every time I try a new PC game I hope, nay, PRAY that it can be set up that way. But then, mouse support in that game really sucked in almost every respect - even lacking features. So that game, at least, there was an actual technical advantage to keybinding. Not so here. Also, in this game, holding down both left and right mouse buttons will allow you to run to wherever you point the mouse.

 

As to binding to emulate the FF11 style camera/movement, it won't work. The camera and movement controls are different at a fundamental level, namely keyboard controls always run your character in relation to which way the character is facing, not in relationship to the camera. Hopefully this will change in 1.2 or another patch, but for now it is literally impossible.

 

EDIT: Also, in this game, running backwards actually make your character run backwards, instead of turning around and running forwards. It is also slower than running forward, in case you hadn't noticed / experienced that yet.

 

FFXI I played Keyboard only. I love it. Best lore and music in an MMO ever.

[Krashh]

I mix it up.

 

I usually use 1-4, Shift + 1-4, Q, E, Shift + Q, Shift + E for casting important abilities, with my hands. The shift key is mapped to one of my mouses thumb buttons, the other to ctrl. Everything else is pretty much with mouse clicking.

[AislingKerrigan]

If someone is moving too much in a WZ I just stun/hold them.

[origamikitsune]

FFXI I played Keyboard only. I love it. Best lore and music in an MMO ever.

 

I miss Prishe. T_T *sniffle* This game needs a Prishe. I still remember the first time I met her, and she said something to the effect of, "I heard there's a REALLY huge dragon nearby! LETS GO POKE IT!" I think I fell in love. Okay, not really, but she was an epic awesome character and personality.

 

I am still holding out for the possibility of using those controls in this game. BW said at one point they were going to allow you the option to lock/unlock the camera and/or turn off chase cam. Don't remember the exact wording. I'm hoping with it, we get changes that allow us to make "back" on the keyboard have your character run forward towards the camera. Soon as that happens, I'm back to keyboard 100% of the time. Granted, this game will still be missing the menu options for abilities, etc., but you can't have everything, right? A shame. Was such an intelligent and intuitive design. Heck, it is one that console programmers use all the time (d-pad navigating quick bars, menus, etc.) I'm honestly surprised we don't see more of that in PC games. I understand that with a mouse keyboard combo there isn't a NEED for it, and it is just extra coding to get the situational aware navigation, but still. It is so damned convenient!

[Dayln]

I don't keybind for a couple of reasons - I can't remember which spells are bound to which keys, and my off-hand coordination is complete rubbish (I'm right-handed).

 

I have been a very successful raid healer using mouse clicks in other MMOs (no, I've never played WoW). I don't PvP so no need to change my preferred playstyle. Not that I would because other people expected me to - I do what suits me.

 

 

What!?!?! You cant do what suits you.... you have to do what others tell you to do!!!