PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[FourTwent]

POLL

 

I want to create this poll to try and get a sensus on combat logs and the importance of real logs along with DPS meters, threat meters and the like. Please keep this discussion civil. Below is what I wrote in the UI thread from the guild summit.

 

Understand, currently the new logs are only accessable outside of the game and only display information that has happened to you. (ie the "what happened to me" button in WoW's combat log). DO NOT VOTE if you do not understand combat logs, what kind of combat logs they are implementing (only self, a lot of people do not understand this as I have read from answers to other threads), or if you intend to troll.

 

NOTE:

 

Combat logs serve important for the future of DPS meters, threat meters and all around important additions that will help improve the overall performance of players, knowledge of players and most importantly CONTROL of your character.

 

Also understand that it will be MORE DIFFICULT for BioWare to implement TRULY difficult content with more engaging mechanics without the use of combat logs and logging for improvement.

 

Why'd you close the poll so early? Not like the kind of results you were getting initially?

 

'real combat logs' as you put it are not needed at all. the combat logs we are getting are 'real' and you can 'log' them for improvement without the need to make them public knowledge.

 

its nice to see Bioware make a stand on something like this and not cave in to the pressure.

[Monfort]

It's not about improvement. They don't care. It's about playing the way they want to. And they don't want people having the tools to tell them otherwise. They'd rather have the game change to their way of playing instead of learning their class and playing the way the devs made it to be.

 

Playing your way is one thing, but telling your group/ops that your dps doesn't matter because you're enjoying your low dps setup. While what you're really doing is holding the group back.

 

That's is a very ironic post considering that since the devs have made it clear that there won't be any WOW style combat logs and add ons added to SWTOR. Apparently you are the one playing in way the devs don't want, not everyone else.

 

It's even more ironic that the same people who say we need the combat logs and add ons are the same ones saying that SWTOR is too easy. If this game is sooo easy, why do you even need that stuff?

 

 

I will play exactly in the way I want you. You do the same. But have no fear, if I ever find myself grouped with someone who shares your attitude that I am holding the group back because I am not specced the way you think I should be, I will quit that group long before yoiu can kick me.

 

I play games for fun, not validate my existence through accomplishments in a video game. I dont need to measure my epeen.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Monfort

[Monfort]

Why'd you close the poll so early? Not like the kind of results you were getting initially?

 

'real combat logs' as you put it are not needed at all. the combat logs we are getting are 'real' and you can 'log' them for improvement without the need to make them public knowledge.

 

its nice to see Bioware make a stand on something like this and not cave in to the pressure.

 

He mad bro.

[NinjaApacHe]

Absolutely not, I do not want that people start looking at their combat log instead of focusing on their raid duty. Combat log ruined every game.

[stineo]

NO!!! If you are too lazy to run a parser program, then you don't really care that much about how much DPS you do.

 

Also, I love this option of combat logs. Because if people want to spam thier epeen DPS parsers they actually have to make an effort to post it on chat. And eventually they will get tired of doing that and keep that epeen to themselves. If you decide to continue to spam your parse in raids or groups then people may kick you out of raid or group. That's the way I like it.

 

DPS meters, Threat meters, healing, anything meters are stupid and dumb down the game.

[WereMops]

Why'd you close the poll so early? Not like the kind of results you were getting initially?

 

'real combat logs' as you put it are not needed at all. the combat logs we are getting are 'real' and you can 'log' them for improvement without the need to make them public knowledge.

 

its nice to see Bioware make a stand on something like this and not cave in to the pressure.

 

He didn't close it, he put up the link to the "result/duplicate/you have already voted" part of the poll, this is the correct address http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b

 

EDIT: or you could just hit the back button below the results and vote

Edited March 7, 2012 by WereMops

[Neoforcer]

NOon combat log that other can view yes on pirvate combat logs

[stineo]

He didn't close it, he put up the link to the "result/duplicate/you have already voted" part of the poll, this is the correct address http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b

 

EDIT: or you could just hit the back button below the results and vote

 

ATM, 75% are against his poll there too.

[cmecu]

I am on both sides of the fence. Having Logs was nice when I played WoW, You knew how much Damage you did, how much the Boss Did, could keep an eye on tanks threat, keep an eye on your own threat. It allowed everyone to know who was doing what and how much of it, BUT with that being said let me be the devils advocate and give my input on why there should be no meters.

It leads to elitism where people demand how much damage your doing else you cant get into the raid, guild, party ect ect .

It makes boss fights more technical and not enjoyable.

More Clutter on the Screen.

 

Seriously just enjoy the game, and play. Actually allow yourself to have a challenge from boss fights. Not let it always turn into a number crunching game. I been playing MMOs for a very long time. My best times.. Everquest. Get back to the fun of an MMO. Just play

[DJunior]

This truly is the fisher price MMO.

 

Yep. Complete with rainbows.

[fordpre]

Definetly no to threat meters it removes part of the skill of playing your class both as a DPS and a tank, and breaks imersion in fight totally. As for DPS meters I am not generally in favour yes to a personal DPS meter that allows people to tune up there own gameplay, no to a full DPS meter or if there is one it should be limited to group/ops leader only. I really have no interest in going back to people who constantly watch the meter then funnily enough when they hit having the highest DPS in one fight "Post recount PLZ"

[MajikMyst]

I think self logs is sufficient..

[chaosvernon]

There's so much Butthurt in this thread.

[crimsonsglory]

There's so much Butthurt in this thread.

 

The real butthurt comes when we have meters. I enjoy insulting baddies and then kicking them

Edited March 7, 2012 by crimsonsglory

[Vankris]

3rd party damage meters using combat log can work well.

 

- you can run a program that parse combat log in real time (no real doubt this kind of program will exist)

- you can alt tab or play in windows mode to check dps performance, death log, etc... in between tries

- you can adjust strats, talk to people performing horribly or in the worst case scenario replace them. (yes i did say replace them, if one person just sscrewing the whole evening for 7/15 others, the need of the many outweight the need of the few)

 

 

i never check recount during an encounter anyway, i am focussing on the fight, trying to play the best i can for my friend, i respect them too much to even think of playing poorly and relying on them killing the boss for me.

 

so i'm fine, not ideal but combat log is a definitly an improvement.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Vankris

[Mrs_Murder]

I am in favor of combat logs for MY character, and DPS/Threat meters for use by the Ops leader...only if they are in-game features, not add-ons.

 

We do not need another game where people are told you must have add-ons X and Y in order to be in this Ops group, etc.

 

This. Threat meters is especially not needed. Only the ops leader/assistant lead need to see dps meters.

 

Sincerely an elitist min/maxing hardcore raider who likes a challenge.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[Monfort]

its probably only 10% (if that) of the population to whom damage metres are so important. im sorry that at this point you cant use elitism to its max and kick players left, right and centre for being "bad" because the metre said so

 

maybe one day you too will learn to use your character correctly, and your own brain, without some plugin telling you what to do and when to do it? or maybe you still feel that need to be "extra special" and point out the flaws of others who arent using a scripted fight plan?

 

way to prove these are not needed here

 

That type of player is dependent on those plug ins, meters and add ons. They can't play without them. They claim to be more skilled but find that without their crutches that they can't play well.

[Englefield]

This.

 

You protesters need to see the flip side of things.

 

Ironic...

[Mrs_Murder]

That type of player is dependent on those plug ins, meters and add ons. They can't play without them. They claim to be more skilled but find that without their crutches that they can't play well.

 

Pretty much (although dps meters/logs are very helpful to find a good rotation). A certain boss in a certain nightmare mode has a threat mechanic which will oneshot people 2nd on threat. Everyone were saying how we can't do this without threat meters blah blah, horrible mechanic, impossible without threat meters yada yada.

Turned out to be 100% doable without meters as soon as the tanks figured it out.

[navycrow]

i am all for a combat for me and threat meats desanated for the tank but that is about i.

 

dont need the epeen of people. trolls get ingored good now. dont need the pvp say how they did great in ops with their pvp gear and howo u sucked cause oyu only double his dps with pve gear. for me back in MC when none of it exisited we did just fine boss's went down and everyone had fun not that rouge not pull 20k dps cause he has fire resist gear on boot him (exg). but you get the point

 

 

now a damage taken mete on the other hand would be nice to see why you are pulling of the tank why are you standing in stuff....

 

thats the people after the 2rd time you need to kick

Edited March 7, 2012 by navycrow

[Seregul]

He gave you one. Helpful communication is how billions of mobs have died over the years with no meters. It is a little depressing most mmog players today can't even guess how to do content without meters.

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

I see some people insisting they don't want logs, then following with how they'd rather think for themselves than let the game do it. Generally the word 'think' implies you have some information or data to think about. What sort of verifiable data are you receiving from the game right now, that giving you more would have a negative impact on your play?

 

Or maybe none of you know what the hell you're even arguing against.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Seregul

[Morsk]

That type of player is dependent on those plug ins, meters and add ons. They can't play without them. They claim to be more skilled but find that without their crutches that they can't play well.

WoW content and classes are designed with addon use in mind, so it's somewhere between nonsense and uselessly hypothetical to talk about playing it without addons. There is no "type of player" that uses addons in WoW, not anymore than there's a "type of player" that builds worker units in RTS, or uses companions while soloing in SWTOR.

 

Also people need to stop conflating "using damage meters to evaluate performance" with "relying on addons to play your character". These are completely different things, and the conflation of them speaks of dishonesty, or fear. People are afraid of their performance being evaluated, so they change the subject. If you have a good reason to be afraid of your performance being evaluated (maybe there is one), say it, don't change the subject.

[xGETGOTx]

I vote YES. Only reason you dont want ppl to see what/how you are doing is cause you are afraid of what ppl will see...

[ferroz]

Ironic...

no, I'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said there, so there's no irony involved.

[terminova]

I was being sarcastic.

 

I see some people insisting they don't want logs, then following with how they'd rather think for themselves than let the game do it. Generally the word 'think' implies you have some information or data to think about. What sort of verifiable data are you receiving from the game right now, that giving you more would have a negative impact on your play?

 

Or maybe none of you know what the hell you're even arguing against.

 

Class abilities, what they do, how they work, their cast times, how they interact with the GCD, how they interact with each other, their damage bounds etc.

 

Before a damage meter can be of any use, you really do have to know how to actually play your class.

 

If you do not know how to play your class, a damage meter is useless, and a large majority of the time damage meters will not make any difference and the lack of a damage meter will not impact group play in anything except the times a high end raiding group is trying to clear bleeding edge content.

 

 

I completely understand why a group trying to do the hardest and newest content would want damage meters and group wide everything, but it's only useful for them and not everyone else. This is why the compromise solution of personal, downloadable combat logs are the best solution.

Edited March 7, 2012 by terminova