kevlarto Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hows that poll working out for you ? surpised most people don't think like you /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangwl Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 combat log would only drives and segregates out the properly equip vs. not so adequately equip population/ player-based/ within the community. if being implemented, this would only be a, what's your DPS? omg! so low, get out of the group/ ops kind of barrier tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm actually a bit surprised at the poll. I've always considered myself a dinosaur, dying breed, when it comes to the view that less is more in logs and meters. I'm happy to for once see a developer on my side of the issue, at least for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moowart Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 last game I played there was both in game and these read out of game meters. The out of game ones were considered "more efficiant" and results were often requested by some guild leaders over vent... can you guess what happened to those who didnt meet the basic dps? Also can you guess what happened to many who got tired of meeting the dps requirements for some guilds? Yup ... they were chucked others just left... Mmm popcorn ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 last game I played there was both in game and these read out of game meters. The out of game ones were considered "more efficiant" and results were often requested by some guild leaders over vent... can you guess what happened to those who didnt meet the basic dps? Also can you guess what happened to many who got tired of meeting the dps requirements for some guilds? Yup ... they were chucked others just left... Mmm popcorn ... go on...i'd like to hear some more stories you just made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moowart Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 go on...i'd like to hear some more stories you just made up. no stories .. been playing a while on mmos... and this will work badly when peeps realise it becomes work ... elitism for casuals oft kills fun ... many guilds will pick the cream and cull the weaker ... but I am sure u know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerythFOS Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 People should be able to see a combat log that shows what is happening in the entire raid/party, not just themselves. Look at my analogy. Its like asking a captain of a team to help other people when he can only see himself play. In anything competitive, a leader is able to view his team and help critique/improve. I am sorry, but if you do not want other people to know what you are doing wrong or help you, then competitive ANYTHING is not for you. I don't understand. If this implementation was executed in ANYTHING ELSE besides a video game, then it would be unacceptable. And don't say it is because you pay to play. BioWare has included a Story Mode just for you. I answer that question in my OP. Read it. Competitive? This is an MMO. A VIDEO GAME. Something done for recreation and enjoyment. You want competition go play sports or something. We do not need the infamous "Onyxia Wipe Video" guy in SWTOR. People do not WANT Ops Leaders 'helping' them, as it usually ends up being blame and unmerited kicking from runs. What Bioware is implementing is fine. You get killed, you can see your mistake. You need a parsed combat log, its saved to your hard drive to review so you can improve yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Hows that poll working out for you ? surpised most people don't think like you /shrug I can't vote in the poll. I did what the guy said and hit the back button under the poll but still cannot vote. That poll isn't really accurate, just look at how many people say they can't vote in it. Edited March 8, 2012 by Ulmius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 And you will see this with the implementation that is being used. Why is that getting lost? They specifically stated that you will see what YOU did and what happened to YOU. As it should be. There have been many posts (some of them in the SWTOR forums) that what ruined WoW was the LFG tool. No, what ruined WoW was DPS meters and the armory. Once there was a 'tool' that could be used as a weapon to single out and discriminate against a player because they weren't doing the 'dps they should be doing' or have the very best gear, that's what ruined WoW. The best thing SWTOR could do is to NOT provide any enhancements or addons that allow players to compare gear or performance numbers of any kind from one player to the next. Players find enough things to snipe at each other about. Don't add fuel to the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 no stories .. been playing a while on mmos... and this will work badly when peeps realise it becomes work ... elitism for casuals oft kills fun ... many guilds will pick the cream and cull the weaker ... but I am sure u know that New guys to MMO's often get slapped in the face with this. Those that have been around for years though know their play style and don't try to mix with raiders if they don't raid and vice versa. But yeah.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Starglide...it really looks like instead of a "poll" to sample the community and see what side the majority is on with regards to this issue, what you wanted was to argue with people about it. People are "voting"...some say "yes", some say "no"...some say "yes, but only if..." Isn't that what you asked for? Why the need to argue back at every post that disagrees with you and basically insult us by telling us we don't know what we are talking about just because you don't like our response? Plus...I was even on your side...mostly. It's an ego thing. I believe he honestly thought the only people who would vote in his poll were people who agreed with him. Hell, he may have even thought already that because he wanted it, everyone did. It is a real problem on Internet forums. Posters believing that they speak for some vast majority of people that only exist in their own heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I can't vote in the poll. I did what the guy said and hit the back button under the poll but still cannot vote. That poll isn't really accurate, just look at how many people say they can't vote in it. I think it's closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisai Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Competitive? This is an MMO. A VIDEO GAME. Something done for recreation and enjoyment. You want competition go play sports or something. We do not need the infamous "Onyxia Wipe Video" guy in SWTOR. People do not WANT Ops Leaders 'helping' them, as it usually ends up being blame and unmerited kicking from runs. What Bioware is implementing is fine. You get killed, you can see your mistake. You need a parsed combat log, its saved to your hard drive to review so you can improve yourself. This is a MMO, as it says, a massively MULTIPLAYER online game. In any game, no matter it's size and playerbase, if you have more than 1 player, there will be always a sense of competition and the inherent desire to be the best between them, and it's part of the human nature you can't deny. Edited March 8, 2012 by Orisai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moowart Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Competitive? This is an MMO. A VIDEO GAME. Something done for recreation and enjoyment. You want competition go play sports or something. We do not need the infamous "Onyxia Wipe Video" guy in SWTOR. People do not WANT Ops Leaders 'helping' them, as it usually ends up being blame and unmerited kicking from runs. What Bioware is implementing is fine. You get killed, you can see your mistake. You need a parsed combat log, its saved to your hard drive to review so you can improve yourself. The self parsing is fine its when your results get requested in vent it becomes the problem by guild leads determined to mash content the fastest most efficient way possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I can't vote in the poll. I did what the guy said and hit the back button under the poll but still cannot vote. That poll isn't really accurate, just look at how many people say they can't vote in it. Trying going direct to this page: http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This is a MMO, as it says, a massively MULTIPLAYER online game. In any game, no matter it's size and playerbase, if you have more than 1 player, there will be always a sense of competition and the inherent desire to be the best between them, and it's part of the human nature you can't deny. Yup, that's true. And there is also folks that have a nature of cooperation and want social interaction without competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerythFOS Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Read the last line of what you quoted..... My analogy is still a good one and you are not being objective. If you want to play for RECREATION.... BIOWARE has created a mode JUST FOR YOU, it is called STORY MODE. If you want to play COMPETITIVELY, then there is a mode for that. Just like what you are saying about some people not wanting to play to be coached, then they DO NOT HAVE TO. But for the competitive side of things, WE WANT A COMBAT LOG. Honestly, I do not see why people object to it. That is like competitive players complaining there is a STORY mode, it doesn't effect us so why complain about it. Not having a complete combat log effects the hardcore/competitive community more than having it effects the casuals. Again, please understand the point before you criticize an analogy as your argument seems as you aforementioned. The flaw in your logic is you state Story Mode is for those who do not want to play competetively, then argue that the game is competetive and therefore should have combat logs. If the logs you want are implemented, they would be used in Story Mode as wlel and be used in the abusive ways they have in past MMO's If you are playing this game competetively as you imply, then you are doing HArd and NIghtmare modes, in a guild. Therefore the parsed logs can be shared with the raid leader easily. You are gettign what you are asking for, just not as a meter that can be posted in game. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) As it should be. There have been many posts (some of them in the SWTOR forums) that what ruined WoW was the LFG tool. No, what ruined WoW was DPS meters and the armory. Once there was a 'tool' that could be used as a weapon to single out and discriminate against a player because they weren't doing the 'dps they should be doing' or have the very best gear, that's what ruined WoW. The best thing SWTOR could do is to NOT provide any enhancements or addons that allow players to compare gear or performance numbers of any kind from one player to the next. Players find enough things to snipe at each other about. Don't add fuel to the fire. combat logs and dps meters existed in WoW long before armory and cross server LFD. nice try though. I've said it so many times. DPS meters /= bad behavior People that behave badly = bad behavior What is the saying? Guns dont kill people? Edited March 8, 2012 by Stupiddrummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerokTalram Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 To me the best solution is a toggle that allows people to share their info if they want but it is not compulsory. That will never work. It will be turn the information on or leave our group. Personal combat logs are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 no stories .. been playing a while on mmos... and this will work badly when peeps realise it becomes work ... elitism for casuals oft kills fun ... many guilds will pick the cream and cull the weaker ... but I am sure u know that i played WoW for 5 years. I ran with a good guild (and for only like, 2 of those years). I played my role and was respectful. I avoided bad players. Never encountered any of these "alienated by numbers" situations. its all about the person. You're going to run into jerks in games. There were more jerks in WoW because WoW just had an ungodly amount of players. Its simple statistics. It's up to you to choose to play with mean or nice people. I don't see what dps meters have anything to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I still don't see the point of public combat logs. As long as me and my guild are clearing content and still downing bosses,If you actually read the people who are in favor of it, you'll see that this assumption is a bad one. -some of them are talking about pugs as well as guilds -some of them are talking about situations where they aren't clearing content and downing bosses. -some of them have interests that apply even when they're in a guild and downing content. who cares how much DPS someone's pumping out? Theorycrafters, especially people who like looking at class balancing.People who enjoy the competitive aspect of playing a dps class. People who are interested in ensuring that they aren't being taken advantage of by freeloaders.people that are being incorrectly judged for subjective reasons; X class with Y spec isn't worth taking on this raid because you clearly can't contribute sufficient damage, when the meters actually show that this individual can actually top the dps chart... "rangers are useless, they don't actually contribute anything to the fight; just rez them after, because it costs less mana"etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Competitive? This is an MMO. A VIDEO GAME. Something done for recreation and enjoyment. You want competition go play sports or something. No, people are just playing an mmo competitively. If you don't want to, nothing requires you to do so. We do not need the infamous "Onyxia Wipe Video" guy in SWTOR.THere's nothing wrong with him playing the game. If you don't want to play like that, then don't play with those people. They're easy to avoid. In fact, having addons like recount and gearscore make those people easier to spot (it's one of the main reasons I liked gearscore) People do not WANT Ops Leaders 'helping' them,false. *You* don't want ops leaders helping you; but these people plainly do exist. What Bioware is implementing is fine.Personally, I find it likely that you're going to see 5-10x as much dps parse spam with this system... that doesn't seem fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That will never work. It will be turn the information on or leave our group.Why would you want to run with those people anyway? I sure as hell don't. I for one would welcome the fact that they make themselves obvious by making demands like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That will never work. It will be turn the information on or leave our group. Personal combat logs are fine. I see the same issue cropping up in practice too. Peer pressure will functionally take away that choice and privacy. I am pretty sure BioWare realized this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 ACT - write a plug-in and use ACT. You continue to assert the same tired argument even though you can do what you want if you put a minimal amount of effort into it.That's not actually known to be true... right now, we have no idea whether the log is going to be in real time; the fact that they kept referring to it as "downloadable" kind of implies that it may not be. If it's not a real time log, then act doesn't actually allow him to do any part of what he wants. You are getting what you profess to want - data regarding your performance. That's not accurate. Even with ACT, he's getting part of what he wants: part of the data that is related to his performance. He's certainly not getting all of what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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