PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Bloodstealer]

you're in the minority.

 

this game is made for people who do not care and don't want to know.

And made by people who do not care and don't want you to know.

 

This realization slowly crept up on me over the last couple of months.

And it actually makes it easier to appreciate the game for what it is, a mmorpg light so to speak, if you want to play a real MMO though - keep looking.

 

What exactly do you want the log to tell you if your not promoting DPS elitism... so ok it tells you what happened to YOUR character... how does that effect the outcome.. you still had your *** hanbed to you and your not as ubersauce as you thought you were.. cmon get over it.. its just a game... if its affecting your game so much not having it then there is a crossroads in front of you... EASY choice really

[mufutiz]

this thread has made very clear why the future for the game looks so bleak.

The problem is not just the devs, it is the community.

 

 

while usually developers not listening to their customers seems like a bad thing, listening to their customers might actually be worse in this instance.

 

It's probably my own fault for chosing to spend time on a - supposed - MMORPG that was made for people who don't really like the genre but rather just wanted another Bioware/Star Wars game.

[holydok]

this thread has made very clear why the future for the game looks so bleak.

The problem is not just the devs, it is the community.

 

 

while usually developers not listening to their customers seems like a bad thing, listening to their customers might actually be worse in this instance.

 

It's probably my own fault for chosing to spend time on a - supposed - MMORPG that was made for people who don't really like the genre but rather just wanted another Bioware/Star Wars game.

 

this 100% omg. thousand times yes.

 

this community on the forum is terrible even compared to the WoW community. all these people wanted was a casual starwars jelq fest where they can rp and commune.

 

I see no gamers here. only people who want to hang out in a starwars universe to get away from the real world... (***..)

 

this has to be the 1st time ever where so many has spit so much hate over simple thing as mods and combat logs.

 

I look forward to a day when all the hardcore raiders leave and these casuals are left to raid by themselves.

[Sernon]

The genre has been doing very well without excessive player use of combat logs for over a decade, let's not confuse one title and some latecomers riding on that wave with the entire genre, that's not very educational.

 

---

Edited March 8, 2012 by Sernon

[Tiddex]

this thread has made very clear why the future for the game looks so bleak.

The problem is not just the devs, it is the community.

 

 

while usually developers not listening to their customers seems like a bad thing, listening to their customers might actually be worse in this instance.

 

It's probably my own fault for chosing to spend time on a - supposed - MMORPG that was made for people who don't really like the genre but rather just wanted another Bioware/Star Wars game.

 

mimimi, they closed my cry-for-attention-thread, mimimi

[mufutiz]

What exactly do you want the log to tell you if your not promoting DPS elitism... so ok it tells you what happened to YOUR character... how does that effect the outcome.. you still had your *** hanbed to you and your not as ubersauce as you thought you were.. cmon get over it.. its just a game... if its affecting your game so much not having it then there is a crossroads in front of you... EASY choice really

 

it does effect the outcome because I am able to learn from it, I am able to retrace my steps, my enemies steps, I am able to see in cold, hard numbers the effects of the various stats I am acumulating on my gear, I can see if I should stack more accuracy because I am missing attacks in pivotal moments, I can see what type of damage a certain npc's attack is dealing and if he is mitigating an unreasonable amount of a certain damage type etc pp.

 

Not the least, people will be able to do some math to expose buggy abilities or support claims of imbalances in the game by supplying facts instead of "SORCS ARE SOOOO OP!!!!11"

 

there is a reason all other mmos currently on the market and about to be released have a basic combat log implemented. Every single one of them.

 

But that's just me and we can clearly see here what the problem is. People like you don't want to learn, they don't care and while I personally do not need dps meters and the like it's painfully obvious why you guys don't like them.

 

Because your attitude of "I don't care. I just want to press some buttons and enjoy the nice graphics" directly translates to the group content that you might share with a a dozen other people - and ruin their experience by your unwillingness to improve.

 

Again, there is no sensible argument to be made why anyone would possibly oppose the general idea of a personal combat log, if not tied to parsing and calling out people on their performance. And I don't believe disabling combat logs to deny dps meters is choosing the lesser evil.

Edited March 8, 2012 by mufutiz

[holydok]

mimimi, they closed my cry-for-attention-thread, mimimi

 

its people like you that makes me hate this community even more.

 

his thread was intended for bioware to implement something so basic that every other mmo games have. they boasted this as an mmo yet it does not feel like one.

 

When bioware announces combat log to this game, im going to go on this forum and make a big thread that says "in your face."

 

i know its not going to accomplish anything but its for me. it will make me feel better and some of you salty, which adds on to my happiness.

Edited March 8, 2012 by holydok

[Sabarok]

Bioware is implementing them exactly as how I proposed they be implemented in other combat log threads, so I vote against any further change. My understanding of the combat log is that they will be visible in-game but that they will also be able to write to a disk for 3rd party apps to process detailed information.

 

LOTRO was known as a "wow clone", and the combat log has never gone beyond seeing only the player's stats. There are no DPS meters or threat meters, and we have no problem raiding without them.

[Englefield]

I see no gamers here. only people who want to hang out in a starwars universe to get away from the real world... (***..)

 

 

May I ask, what exactly is your idea of a 'gamer'?

[ArtMonster]

Yes = personal logs.

 

NO = public logs.

 

 

.

[mufutiz]

mimimi, they closed my cry-for-attention-thread, mimimi

 

I have been posting in this thread long before I opened up my own. Which survived much longer than I even expected by the way. I wasn't crying for attention either, I am fighting the good fight here, trying to educate players like you who are in dire need of some good ol' l2p. Futile? Maybe. But I got time to kill

[Monfort]

i

 

But that's just me and we can clearly see here what the problem is.

 

.

 

We can see exactly what the problem. It's your elitist my-way-to-play-is-the-only-way-to-play attitude. Not every one plays the way you do. Not every one wants to play the way you do. Stop trying to ram it down our throats. Accept it, get over it, deal with it, leave, what ever. If you cannot accept what the devs are implementing for combat logs then please by all means go play a game that is acceptable to you.

[Taroen]

I vote for no.

 

 

Giving access to that information would turn FP's and Op's into a competition. This is not an e-sport, its a game to have fun.

 

Im saying that but i dont play a dps class, but as a tank i dont like to see other player to kicked out from the fp's just because they have a green gear.

 

 

Im totally against to it.

 

We dont need a damage metter, a threat meter i belive it would far most usefull.

 

#EDIT#

 

 

 

Combat logs dont teach you how to play the game

but helps you to improve your playstyle.

 

And trial and error doesn't work when you have no data.

You dont need to have those kinda of that to have a basic perception of what is happening.

 

You guys want everything on your hands easily, giving tools that make our work easier remove all the challenge .

 

You don't know which "trial" gave the "error".

 

Instead using metters as a crutch, force your brain to figure it out. i mean, an ops takes 16 ppls inside. if 16 ppl cant figure it out where the error went, you guys shoul play tomato island.

 

It's lame to want everyone to wallow in ignorance just because you're afraid that someone might call you out on your lack of performance.

its a game. no performance should be measured on .

 

Performance should be measured at your school, work and sports. only. period.

 

 

The reason that the content has to be so insanely easy is because they have to account for the fact that a lot of op groups are going to have failbots in them that the raid leaders can't root out.

 

Me and my guild still doing normals and we are not able actualy to kill the first boss on E.V. hard mode, we dont complain about it, we just try diferent combinations. we dont hurry, because its a game. nothing that work spend stress time on it . =)

 

Okay then, here is a question for you.

 

You're leading a raid and you have 2 tanks, 4 healers and 10 DPS. You keep failing on a boss, not because people are dying to boss mechanics, but because your dps is slow and the boss keeps enraging and wiping the raid.

 

How then do you tell which of your DPS is underperforming, and what do you do about it?

[Kinrain]

I can't agree with that.

 

The self only private damage report is an excellent idea, broadcasting that to anyone without permission is and open invitation to elitism and griefing.

 

And before you come back with 'you suck and don't want anyone to see how bad' or 'you just don't want to learn' a bit of background might help.

 

I played a Paladin tank spec and a Retribution spec in WoW (before BC and upto Cataclysm and Main Tanked or DPS'd everything pre Cataclysm, so you can tell I like a challenge!) and spent a lot of time analysing my abilities, performance and damage logs. Much of my time was spent researching and contributing on the Maintankadin website, gearscore sites and theorycrafting.

 

My performance is important to me, I want to know that I am being the best I can be. But I have no interest in anyone else's performance except in progression raiding if I am leading and I would make it clear that sharing combat logs (ONLY with the Raid leader) will be expected in a constructive and confidential manner.

[SNEAKYSIX]

Not the least, people will be able to do some math to expose buggy abilities or support claims of imbalances in the game by supplying facts instead of "SORCS ARE SOOOO OP!!!!11"

 

there is a reason all other mmos currently on the market and about to be released have a basic combat log implemented. Every single one of them.

 

But that's just me and we can clearly see here what the problem is. People like you don't want to learn, they don't care and while I personally do not need dps meters and the like it's painfully obvious why you guys don't like them.

 

Because your attitude of "I don't care. I just want to press some buttons and enjoy the nice graphics" directly translates to the group content that you might share with a a dozen other people - and ruin their experience by your unwillingness to improve.

 

NOT every gamer plays for stats and numbers, not every gamer learns from that method of scrutiny. Damn I died, why, gonna try this combo. its part of the fun....

Public Logs create an elitist culture, dropping and snubbing average gamers from a group. You create this in every MMO, then wonder why the subs drop off. You are in the minority and not a decent gamer by applying this method. Ego driven

Edited March 8, 2012 by SNEAKYSIX

[holydok]

We can see exactly what the problem. It's your elitist my-way-to-play-is-the-only-way-to-play attitude. Not every one plays the way you do. Not every one wants to play the way you do. Stop trying to ram it down our throats. Accept it, get over it, deal with it, leave, what ever. If you cannot accept what the devs are implementing for combat logs then please by all means go play a game that is acceptable to you.

 

the thing is we are not doing this for you. this world doesnt revolve around you. we are doing this for us. we want to have fun. once we get our combat log. we will do the math. we will do everything. you dont have to do jack ****. we promise you.

 

we will also not ram it down your throats. you can be bad if you want. we will find ways to be better. we want to be progressive rather than stagnant. we want to grow.

 

you are being a hypocrite because you think we are ramming our way of this game into your throat when in actuality, you are doing it to us. without combat log, we are FORCED to play your way. no way of knowing who is doing good and who is doing bad. we play by your own rules.

 

with combat logs. it frees us. we are allowed to strive to be better. we can get away from this stagnant community. we can build our own society.

 

we just want to better ourselves. is that so wrong?

[Taroen]

We can see exactly what the problem. It's your elitist my-way-to-play-is-the-only-way-to-play attitude. Not every one plays the way you do. Not every one wants to play the way you do. Stop trying to ram it down our throats. Accept it, get over it, deal with it, leave, what ever. If you cannot accept what the devs are implementing for combat logs then please by all means go play a game that is acceptable to you.

 

Actually, it's people like you who want to force everyone else to play the way you want to play. You got butthurt once because someone used raw data to criticize you, and now you don't want other people to have any metrics because the meanies might come for you again.

 

But even if combat logs and DPS meters are in the game, no one is forcing you to use them, and if people are misusing metrics to judge you unfairly, why would you want to play with them, anyway..?

[Englefield]

When bioware announces combat log to this game, im going to go on this forum and make a big thread that says "in your face."

 

i know its not going to accomplish anything but its for me. it will make me feel better and some of you salty, which adds on to my happiness.

 

You know sometimes a mature person might make an interesting argument in favour of a more detailed combat log and it makes me consider my own position.

 

Then someone comes along with quotes like above and makes me realise I was right all along.

 

Congrats you on showing your age.

 

 

 

 

this thread has made very clear why the future for the game looks so bleak.

 

Yes, I think I agree

Edited March 8, 2012 by Englefield

[Monfort]

the thing is we are not doing this for you. this world doesnt revolve around you. we are doing this for us. we want to have fun. once we get our combat log. we will do the math. we will do everything. you dont have to do jack ****. we promise you.

 

we will also not ram it down your throats. you can be bad if you want. we will find ways to be better. we want to be progressive rather than stagnant. we want to grow.

 

you are being a hypocrite because you think we are ramming our way of this game into your throat when in actuality, you are doing it to us. without combat log, we are FORCED to play your way. no way of knowing who is doing good and who is doing bad. we play by your own rules.

 

with combat logs. it frees us. we are allowed to strive to be better. we can get away from this stagnant community. we can build our own society.

 

we just want to better ourselves. is that so wrong?

 

Thank you for just proving my point exactly. You just said that if we dont play the way you do then we are bad players. You're the hypocrite.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Monfort

[mufutiz]

We can see exactly what the problem. It's your elitist my-way-to-play-is-the-only-way-to-play attitude. Not every one plays the way you do. Not every one wants to play the way you do. Stop trying to ram it down our throats. Accept it, get over it, deal with it, leave, what ever. If you cannot accept what the devs are implementing for combat logs then please by all means go play a game that is acceptable to you.

 

It's not MY way to play. Supplying a combat log is the way every MMO ever since the technology is available has done it. I am not an elitist, I am just a guy who played some other games before and who likes to be able to see exactly the numbers behind what just wen on on the screen.

 

I don't need to rub my super leet dps numbers into anybodys face either. I don't have to. Everybody can freely choose the kind of people he wants to play with. And while I don't do any PvE at the moment I am actually in a guild where I would not even be tempted to troll my guildees with my incredibly leet numberz.

 

This game is barely 3 months old, I don't expect it to be perfect. That's why I am here. That's why I am posting. You post because you 'dont care. I am posting because I do care.

[holydok]

You know sometimes a mature person might make an interesting argument in favour of a more detailed combat log and it makes me consider my own position.

 

Then someone comes along with quotes like this and makes me realise I was right all along.

 

Congrats you on showing your age.

 

im not going to make this a personal argument so im going to keep it short: its a joke. im obviously not going to do that.

 

see my above posts. why do you tend to pick out one discolored rose out of a bouquet of beautiful roses and call it ugly?

[Taroen]

NOT every gamer plays for stats and numbers, not every gamer learns from that method of scrutiny. Damn I died, why, gonna try this combo. its part of the fun....

Public Logs create an elitist culture, dropping and snubbing average gamers from a group. You create this in every MMO, then wonder why the subs drop off. You are in the minority and not a decent gamer by applying this method. Ego driven

 

And again, if you hate those people so much, why are you so desperate to play with them?

 

There seems to be enough people like you that don't want to use metrics. Get some of them together and have your own style of "fun".

 

Personally, I highly doubt that 15 other people in the operation are going to think it is so fun to wipe over and over because your "fun" build puts out half the DPS everyone else does.

[Taroen]

I can't agree with that.

 

The self only private damage report is an excellent idea, broadcasting that to anyone without permission is and open invitation to elitism and griefing.

 

And before you come back with 'you suck and don't want anyone to see how bad' or 'you just don't want to learn' a bit of background might help.

 

I played a Paladin tank spec and a Retribution spec in WoW (before BC and upto Cataclysm and Main Tanked or DPS'd everything pre Cataclysm, so you can tell I like a challenge!) and spent a lot of time analysing my abilities, performance and damage logs. Much of my time was spent researching and contributing on the Maintankadin website, gearscore sites and theorycrafting.

 

My performance is important to me, I want to know that I am being the best I can be. But I have no interest in anyone else's performance except in progression raiding if I am leading and I would make it clear that sharing combat logs (ONLY with the Raid leader) will be expected in a constructive and confidential manner.

 

I actually can't argue with that one too much. As long as a raid leader is able to see the data, that's all I really care about. We used to have mini-competition between similar classes to see who could out-perform the other (outside of the fight mechanics, of course) and that was fun, but I can live without that as long as leaders are able to see who is underperforming, and they're able to either help that person get better, or remove them if needed.

[holydok]

Thank you for just proving my point exactly. You just said that if we dont play the way you do then we are bad players. You're the hypocrite.

 

it is a fact that we will better through numbers. humans will grow through numbers and science. its a fact. and we want to be better.

 

you dont have to follow our ways. no one is forcing you to. but if a person who does the math goes up against a person like you who doesnt want to get involved in numbers and just do it blindly. who do you think will win? i must remind you that this isnt some cartoon where you use your heart to beat the great evil.

 

why stop us from being better than we can be?

[Englefield]

im not going to make this a personal argument so im going to keep it short: its a joke. im obviously not going to do that.

 

see my above posts. why do you tend to pick out one discolored rose out of a bouquet of beautiful roses and call it ugly?

 

I'm not sure calling your posts "a bouquet of beautiful roses" would be justified. Particullarly harsh on the roses I feel.