mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That statement makes it pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about. It's quite apparent the one without any idea what I am talking about is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 A. "Bad" players will have their data to look at...whoever might qualify as "bad" in your myopic self-satisfied worldview....so they will be perfectly able to self-evaluate and try to increase their performance. B. If they want your help, they will ask for it and are perfectly able to share their data with you if they so choose, but I would suggest they find someone else without an attitude problem. C. If they want your smug, conceited opinion in the first place, I pity them. Are you trying to prove that we can't get rid of a-holes by being one yourself? Sorry, but "some people are a-holes and you can't get rid of them" is in no way an excuse for giving said a-holes tools to be even bigger a-holes. LOL i was going to respond to all your cry baby points but it was getting too long and i dont really care, you are exactly the person i do not want on any of my raids. but that really doesnt matter i highly doubt you have been or ever will be on any progression raids. So you can spend your time trying to keep everyone else at your level and ill keep helping people improve, i can try to live with that. Ive never booted anyone from a heroic pug in wow for low dps, and ive never booted anyone from my swtor ops groups. but not having a combat log to work with has made my job needlesly more difficult to cater to people like you that would rather have 7 of his friends carry him instead of actualy having to put in an effort like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I guess I'll repeat myself.. the functionality will be there! It will simply be inconvenient. You are arguing for inconvenience. You're arguing for time delay on information, not the lack on information. You're arguing for temporary ignorance, and for delays, and workarounds, and stopping in the middle of raids to go review logs online, instead of just having it built into the game. Not really. The argument is the ability to control one's info if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's quite apparent the one without any idea what I am talking about is you. No, sorry, but Drewser is right. You have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's quite apparent the one without any idea what I am talking about is you. If you think a combat log containing personal information that can be used on a target dummy in your ship to perfect your rotation is useless, I don't what to tell you. That is just one simple example why it is not meaningless. But carry on with the QQing about how Bioware is doing it. You wouldn't want to start using any logic at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 No, sorry, but Drewser is right. You have no idea what you are talking about. Allright, allright. You convinced me. So explain to me please how this oog parser is a meaningful replacement for a combat log. And while you're at it, elaborate on the usefulness of the parser in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Kid i've been a top guild tank for 12 years running, EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG, Rift, now TOR, but when ppl compare a game to real life....well, you ppl need to get a real life. Yes because using an example from real life to demonstrate a point and saying the game is as important as real life is the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you think a combat log containing personal information that can be used on a target dummy in your ship to perfect your rotation is useless, I don't what to tell you. see, that's exactly what I meant. Everybody confuses a combat log with a dps parser. Sure, beating up a target dummy might be meaningful to some of the - I want to be diplomatic about it but for lack of a better word let's just go with it - bad players. A combat log is something different entirely though, unlike a parser it is meaningful and important, although it is a prerequisite for dps meters and the like, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaste Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Kid i've been a top guild tank for 12 years running, EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG, Rift, now TOR, but when ppl compare a game to real life....well, you ppl need to get a real life. Unless my reading comprehension is low today, he was refering to player interaction and people working together and co-operating like they would in real life.... This (for God knows what reason) is an MMO, involving real life players across the country and sometimes the world working toward a common goal... Is it so foriegn an idea that players will strive for optimization the same way they do in the real world when involved in a virtual world as well? <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Democracy at it's finest! OP - EVERYONE VOTE! PLEASE VOTE! TO SHOW BW HOW THE PEOPLE WANT COMBAT LOGS Everyone votes "no, we don't want them" OP - NO ONE UNDERSTANDS BUT ME!!, BW PLEASE IGNORE THE VOTES AND GIVE US COMBAT LOGS BECAUSE I WANT THEM! DON'T LISTEN TO THE MASSES!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Allright, allright. You convinced me. So explain to me please how this oog parser is a meaningful replacement for a combat log. And while you're at it, elaborate on the usefulness of the parser in itself. Combat Log File from game + OOG Parser = complete combat analysis tool with tabulated damage, healing, etc. PLUS the ability to see it in either table format or Graphics format AND export the data to windows applications, web sites....etc. etc. Please do spend some time to bone up on the ACT parser (been around since EQ2). http://advancedcombattracker.com/ Edited March 7, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Democracy at it's finest! OP - EVERYONE VOTE! PLEASE VOTE! TO SHOW BW HOW THE PEOPLE WANT COMBAT LOGS Everyone votes "no, we don't want them" OP - NO ONE UNDERSTANDS BUT ME!!, BW PLEASE IGNORE THE VOTES AND GIVE US COMBAT LOGS BECAUSE I WANT THEM! DON'T LISTEN TO THE MASSES!! LOLz..... yeah... pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 see, that's exactly what I meant. Everybody confuses a combat log with a dps parser. Sure, beating up a target dummy might be meaningful to some of the - I want to be diplomatic about it but for lack of a better word let's just go with it - bad players. A combat log is something different entirely though, unlike a parser it is meaningful and important, although it is a prerequisite for dps meters and the like, sure. <yawn> Again if you don't see the use in what I just posted, you are in fact clueless. I can guarantee you no min/maxer right now knows the best rotations. They might have a feel for it but until we see the numbers, that is all it is. I am not saying it is the best possible analytical tool for measuring/improving one's performance, but it clearly has meaningful uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It's entirely meaningless and useless for replacing the functionality of a real time combat log. which is what I am talking about(and was the content of the quote in my post you responded to) and no amount of target dummy facesmashing and carebearing is going to change that. Edited March 7, 2012 by mufutiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Mott Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) People should be able to see a combat log that shows what is happening in the entire raid/party, not just themselves... ...anything competitive, a leader is able to view his team and help critique/improve... ...I am sorry, but if you do not want other people to know what you are doing wrong or help you, then competitive ANYTHING is not for you... Hey man, I see where you are coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree. I come from a long line of veteran raiders that has been raiding since day one of MMO's and we never used combat logs. An experienced raid leader can easily point out the weakest link in the raid and offer advice without a combat log. That said, combat logs DO make that weakest link call a bit easier and with data to back the call. However, most people that are the weakest link know it, but just do not wish to be called out on it. It's a raid leaders responsibility to privately tell that person they are not up to spec and to improve gear and/or tactics by the next raid. To close, people got along just fine without combat logs. They are fluff and as about as important as adding a new hairstyle to a in-game barber shop; nice to have, but not game-breaking in their absence. Edited March 7, 2012 by Damon_Mott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's entirely meaningless and useless for replacing the functionality of a real time combat log. which is what I am talking about and no amount of target dummy facesmashing and carebearing is going to change that. Move those goal posts. I am done with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spifnar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 A combat log would be nice. But I'm voting no to any kind of mods/addons. Third party software just should not exist. Use your eyes to see the action, instead of having a grid/pop-up point it out to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Move those goal posts. I am done with you. Oh no my friend, you are not done with me. I am done with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 as i'm understanding it, dps meters will become a tool used by jerks to belittle other players. I don't really understand where this is coming from. Sure, WoW had a lot of jerky players and it also had combat logs. So what? WoW also has around 11 million players. Statistically, with a higher sample size, there is going to be a higher amount of jerks. DPS meters didn't make people jerks in WoW. The population just became so massive that the amount of jerks also increased. I'm willing to bet SWTOR has the same percentage of jerks, but in smaller numbers, due to a lower overall sample size. So the jerk population is harder to notice than the larger WoW population. TLDR - DPS meters dont make jerks. Larger sample sizes just make them more noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think BioWare has come to the right compromise for this game on combat logs. The info is there if you want the feedback and invisible if you prefer to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 A combat log would be nice. But I'm voting no to any kind of mods/addons. Third party software just should not exist. Use your eyes to see the action, instead of having a grid/pop-up point it out to you. well, let'S look at it like this: I don't know of ONE single MMO that does not have a fully functional combat log included. Never heard of it, never expected it to see in our modern days. But low and behold, here it is - no combat log at all and no plans whatsoever to include one. To be fair, who expected to see FFA pvp brackets allowing lv 50 players to farm lowbies? If anything, Bioware has proven to take some unconventional approaches. They might be totally sucky, in a completely obvious fashion to many longtime fans of the genre from miles away but couldn't hurt to try it out right? Or could it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It seems like the only person that would object to Combat Logs is someone who has been removed from a group for having low numbers. how can u even get it? 74% dont want it... so you think 74% have been removed from a group? (and we are on the forum where the majority of so called PRO come to whine) really u have no clue at all... did u even bother to check the poll result? Edited March 7, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 how can u even get it? 74% dont want it... so you think 74% have been removed from a group? (and we are on the forum where the majority of so called PRO come to whine) really u have no clue at all... did u even bother to check the poll result? Because it doesn't weigh in their favor they will most likely try to exclude them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregul Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's quite apparent the one without any idea what I am talking about is you. WoW has both the in-game combat log that you can display in your chat window and a slash command to create a .txt file with the same information that can be uploaded to a third-party client and parsed. Addons like Recount would take that data, as well as the data from party and raid members, and compile it into a graphical display as part of your UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Want to see a real vote on combat logs? add servers that have full combat logs and see how they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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