I think I know why so many are angry about the Valor and Gear changes

[Zhaze]

You got the goodies and you got the gear. What you're really saying is "the real goody that we want is to be able to facemelt people who haven't gotten the gear yet. Making us play on equal footing and prove we have skill gives us a sad."

 

Yes top geared people who work for their rewards should facemelt people who do not work as hard. I'm concerned with people saying we should not have gear in PVP. Why wouldn't I just go play a much more polished first person shooter then? This is an MMO, you build your characters strength using GEAR.

[Nicain]

Yes top geared people who work for their rewards should facemelt people who do not work as hard. I'm concerned with people saying we should not have gear in PVP. Why wouldn't I just go play a much more polished first person shooter then? This is an MMO, you build your characters strength using GEAR.

 

You and I are a dying breed of players. Everyone wants to play DCUO, but when they get DCUO they quit after three months and don't understand why.

 

We build characters, gear is part of character building!

[stephenalandavie]

I havent read all the posts dnt have the time but let me get this straight with the patch 1.2 gear progression will cease to exist? or is it just that valor is easier to get? well on my server all i keep hearing is people moaning how hard it is later on. Sense of achievement? Correct me if i am wrong but arent games supposed to be about having fun and a laugh with friends/online friends?

[khajak]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I just don't see that as a flaw at all. It didn't stop me and thousands of other players from grinding away and earning the higher level stuff. It didn't stop me and thousands of players from grinding through being a fresh 50, paying my dues, and earning that higher level armor. And also in pre-50 PVP the bonuses that lowbies get already negates a good part of that to begin with.

 

Now I will say I would be fine with this if they made the rewards for winning significantly larger than those for losing. If that is coming down the road then these recent changes are even more useless. But without that the difference between winning and losing in terms of reward is so minuscule it's a joke. So medals were a way of showing your skill, and how much you brought to the team. As a Trooper I could earn 5 medals by defending and giving protection to my team. It showed I cared and I offered something. Now, meh, I don't get credit for that outside of winning, which as I just stated offers no real reward advantage from losing at the moment.

 

The current system did not prevent anybody who cared from gaining higher level and being able to play even lvl 50 PVP if they put forth the effort. The current system rewarded those who put forth time and effort.

 

The problem here is that enough people don't want to put forth the effort. They want the same rewards for merely showing up as for those of us who play our butts off and play to win. This will not get the free-loaders to take PVP any more seriously than they do now. It will do the opposite, cause now they have even less incentive to do better.

 

I had to earn my stripes. This is war not kindergarten.

 

 

I so agree with you. This game should be renamed to Tear Wars.

Take a game with a ton of bugs and broken things and add

people that cry and complain and now the game is completely

out of control. I pvped my arse off to get the title and the gear. I

could tell other marauders would see that i was the first BM marauder

and mold themselves after me and want to be like me and EARN that

title an unspoken respect like what i worked for. Its all the people

that want it now or want the game to be exactly what they freakin want.

 

All the people say that. BM title means nothing or Im just as good! but I

want it handed to me for nothing. The reason people refer to the BM title

all the time is because that was and still is a point in pvp saying ive grinded all

that time, put in all the effort doing stupid ilum dailies everyday even though they suck and

is completely stupid. and also dealt with wz aftr wz winning/losing. getting upset

but still grinding to achieve that goal.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Valkuu
Rude

[karnyboy]

I'm thinking there's a bunch of complaints because some people grinded to valor 60+ and grinded to get their first level 50 and grinded to get their full BM set, and it turns out that all that time they wasted having no life was only ruined by their sick desire to matter in a pixel based world.

[stephenalandavie]

If i have one complaint about the game its the pvp queue sometimes i actually worry i will die waiting for it but that can be solved by jumping servers etc, make a new toon. Edited March 7, 2012 by Valkuu
Rude/reply to edited post

[Aochijz]

to be honest, all this ****t QQ is meaningless. Learn to deal with it and adapt! i never complained about getting pounded by people who are better geared than me, i just think to myself i will get there and ****ingg pay them back, guess what im almost BM, with half champ, half cent gear, and i am so gosh damned ****ingg skillfull that even Elitist "war *** ******g Heros" are taken down by me!, gear is important but being good at the class you play , knowing the ins and outs of it makes you a better players. so my overall ****ingg message to you all is L2p and to deal with it with adapting to the changes before you!

 

peace out ******es!

[Evuke]

no issue with a "pretty" set for the top tier but def not better stat gear, if they're already better than other players better gear will make them op

[Cheeseblaster]

I hereby propose getting rid of it all. Make the goodies all superficial and aesthetic. There, happy? I have no problem with stil wanting to compete on a level playing field. What's your problem with it?

 

I don't have a problem with it. But what we have now is people wanting what other people have worked hard for. And that's not right in a game based on leveling and progression.

 

If you really want it to be equal and have skill decide. You need to get rid of everything that gives a bonus etc.. and go mano a mano. I think that would solve everything in terms of the people wanting it to be more equal.

 

But that's not happening because that's not the whole story behind these types of changes.

[Cernow]

Equating gear with skill is where it all goes wrong in MMO PvP. Here, there, any MMO since WoW you care to mention really.

 

So people gear up, those with the gear beat up those without and think they are skilled. Then the goalposts moved, welfare gear is handed out and it all starts again. Yawn.

 

There needs to be other ways to measure progression and time/effort spent. Other ways to measure who has skill and who doesn't.

 

I have far more respect for players that can beat others because they use their class to the full, know when and where to use their abilities, have good battlefield positioning and target selection, know how to complete objectives and so on.

 

I have little respect for players that are only able to beat others because they outgear them yet think this makes them impressive.

 

Until some game developer sees sense this situation will not change and MMO PvP will mostly be about waving epeens at each other.

[Retro_Chrome]

i am proud of my War Hero title and proud of my BM gear and extremely happy with this change, allowing my friends guildies and faction to get gear quicker will enable us to be on equal footing against those like me who have alot of time to play.

 

I am apparently one of the few people with alot of time to play and still want equal footing, i am on the lower population faction on my server and chose it for among other reasons to be on the underdog side. that being said i do feel sad that many people are going to be getting the war hero title faster than i did.

 

However, i am adult enough and experienced enough to know it wont really matter, it is a game and while i enjoy a certain status on my server, people will still respect me regardless of my title . I have proven myself to be a good pvper, a good team player and i always do what it takes to win(outside of exploits). I never leave a warzone even if half the team has 12k hp.

 

Those things earn me the respect(epeen) that i need to feel successful in this GAME! yes a game, no matter how many people state hwo much "work" you put into your characters, this is still a game, and put simply if it feels like work and you are not having fun, quit. Its as simple as that.

 

it is very correct that mmo pvp is all about time...its not optimal...but it is what we have. I enjoy pvp for the sake of pvp not for the gear, the gear IS a nice perk, but i would be happier if there wasnt such a discrepancy between gear tiers.

 

i personally an wondering, that while i believe i am very skilled, are there better players out there with crappy gear, and i do wonder if given equal footing to me would they beat me. i want to know if that is true, give me the challenge please and make me have to test myself more and more, to be come actually better.

 

 

as a rank 75 war hero with full BM gear, i cannot wait until 1.2 to grab my team of guildies and enter into rated warzones and succeed or fail, but at that point when it comes down to it at least then i know for sure what are the things i have to get better at what do i need to do to help my team more.( this will help my other guildies become better as well and they are not as geared as me so there will be some disadvantages at first).

 

conclusion: if you feel you put in alot of work into your game, re-evaluate why you are working instead of playing, personal satisfaction is greater than epeen everytime and everyplace, test my skill, and make me push myself to be a better player.

 

The change to warzones and ilum and how quickly valor and tokens are earned is a benefit to all and will make pvp a heck of alot more fun and balanced

[Meiu]

I'm talking about the 1.2 changes as well, people seem to be up in arms that Valor will be meaningless and that the top end Gear will be able to be achieved by casual players.

 

I think these are good things, but I believe there should be one set of gear with a marginal increase in stats that mostly serves to stroke their owner's E-Peens (which is what most top PvP-ers want)

 

Or how about what they already said where rated warzones gives out cosmetically unique custom gear to slot your mods into as you climb higher in rating?

 

Why does everything have to be a STATS advantage? Enjoy your EPEEN bad *** looking gear. No need to bring more arbitrary advantages into pvp.

[jitsuo]

I kinda added that there should be "better stats" on the pinnacle gear because it gives it a distinction. I was thinking from a developer standpoint that, even if the gear gives +2 per stat (basically nothing) more than the BM gear, it's something that will keep the hardcores in this game sated because the gear is still an upgrade. The major difference would be cosmetic.

 

I was remembering PvP in WoW while writing this. I remember running up to locks that had some kind of a blackout hood and knowing I could roll through them but avoiding the ones that had a demon looking headpiece because they outgeared me and could stomp me. The armor would give you that kind of respect in the battlegrounds and just walking around.

[finkfad]

I just don't understand this line of thinking. Its like having a professional boxer fight a child and then if the boxer wins you give him a baseball bat... then a gun.

 

Why? in what competitive anything do you give the winners and more skilled people more advantages?

 

Cosmetics is all it should have ever been.

 

Very funny analogy, had a good chuckle at this one. I agree though.

[Ravonous_Curse]

Grinded to 60. Like people in Battlefield 3 Grinded to Rank 100.

Ranks in this game only mean the same as someone who reached level 50. YOU PLAYED the game, doesnt mean you won, doesnt mean you are good, just means you played a bunch of pvp.

 

Just Like BF3, Alot of people Kill trades, ilum (nemesis) exploited their way to the top. Then there are those who say "I worked" No sir, you just played a WZ and the rest was RNG.

 

With Rated BG being the force the separates the gear in the future patch, you will have to WIN your matchs to get your better gear. This will be something that not everyone is going to do.

 

So there is your ability to become a Snow Flake of SUpperrrrr Awsome pvpeÝnis.

 

Or you just do like others will, roll 8 sorcs/ assassin tanks in dps gear /lol

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ravonous_Curse

[Alderaa]

Valor and PVP gear should have never been in the game to begin with.

 

It's a cop-out system to get people pvp'ing instead of giving them tangible objectives.

[astrocanis]

Like I said earlier. You want equal, get rid of armor/gear/weapon differences altogether.

 

But i am hearing a lot of "it's not fair they put more time into it" This isn't merely guys who put in the time to get better gear not wanting to lose it. It's about people who haven't got it being jealous of the advantge it brings.

 

Propose getting rid of it all and you have my attention. Otherwise I just see jealousy.

 

Level/Gear/Weapon/Damage differences? Get rid of them all. Everyone is same level, same HP, same stats, same damage potential. The only difference being where you put your skill points. Heck put everyone in sumo outfits

 

Here are 2 matching weapons now go at it.

 

Anything other than that and I don't buy the whole "better gear isn't fair" argument...

 

I fought this in WoW, first in BG, then Arenas, then rated BG. My philosophy was that as soon as you entered anything that mattered (other than OW), you autoequipped your choice of whites.

 

No gear advantage. Just class, spec and ability. I was shouted down by the "I earned this and I'M GONNA WEAR IT!"

 

I've given up.

[Morticoccus]

It's more like a boxer fighting someone else who wasn't even wearing a helmet, because he hadn't fought in enough fights yet to "earn" his protective gear.

 

That's what these people want for some reason, and they're angry they can't beat up the helmetless guy anymore.

 

I've wanted to say this for days but I don't have a powerful enough flame shield yet. Clearly I havn't earned it yet.

[Migrayn]

I just don't understand this line of thinking. Its like having a professional boxer fight a child and then if the boxer wins you give him a baseball bat... then a gun.

 

Why? in what competitive anything do you give the winners and more skilled people more advantages?

 

Cosmetics is all it should have ever been.

 

This hits the nail on the head. If those hardcore players are so skiiled that they win why do they need better gear. Are they afraid someone with equal gear will beat them?

 

Top ranks should be prestiege and cosmetic rewarxs only. If you need a gun to win in a boxing match then you are not as skilled as you think.

[AstralProjection]

Its just the seasonal transitional period... Why be angry when in a few weeks a whole new tier will be coming up.

 

Exactly, this is just filler-time, pre-pre-season, where we wait for the incentive to PVP (aside from fun), which is the rating system.

 

I don't see what else you could ask for if achievement and your leet status is what you care about. The MMORPG gods will look deep into your soul and assign you a number based on how many matches you've won. That number will still allow people to feel better than others, just like the gear did, if that was their bag.

 

If not? Meh, plenty of us will just be PVPing because, you know, it's fun.

[RealAeiouy]

I suppose "To each his own." is the message here.

 

I just cant get behind being better because I have super gear. I want to beat someone because I beat them. Not because I have a machine gun and they have a stick.

 

But at the same time. I refuse to be the one with the stick when I come up against the machine gunners

 

So I grind out my PvP gear. and hope GW2 will somehow satisfy my MMO PvP desires.

 

 

 

Some people know they will beat others in equal gear or even in better gear at times. Then there are players who know they will never best anyone without a gear advantage.

 

These are the same people who lose warzones to try and get gear faster instead of learning how to pvp

[Darth_Sookie]

This hits the nail on the head. If those hardcore players are so skiiled that they win why do they need better gear. Are they afraid someone with equal gear will beat them?

 

Top ranks should be prestiege and cosmetic rewarxs only. If you need a gun to win in a boxing match then you are not as skilled as you think.

 

NO it doesn't.

 

What its actually like is this: All boxers start out equally. The best boxers move on to another league where they get access to better steroids and gear. In this league the good boxers fight other good boxers with the same kind of access to gear.

A pro boxer won't fight an amateur for the title.

 

We want the game to be MORE difficult where having the best stuff means you competed against the best (who also had access to the best gear).

 

You merely want it for free.

[Cempa]

They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop.

 

I do agree that most of the "standard" PvP gear should be accessible to fresh 50's easily so they can compete in Warzones, but I also believe there should be a pinnacle set of gear that the best of the best are able to achieve. I'm not talking about "hard to get" like BM gear was (it's more of a time sink), but top gear for players that reach the top marks in Valor and ranked Warzones, making it so that only those that both put in the time and are truly good players can achieve it. It would look the coolest and wouldn't have huge stat increases over the 2nd best gear (for the sake of the QQ-ers) but the difference would be noticeable.

 

What say you? I think this would give people a goal to grind for, something that they were kind of missing in the earlier PvP content.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the gear wouldn't have insanely increased stats, the stats should be a minor upgrade from the 2nd gear. What it should be is 10x cooler looking and very distinctive to service the ego of those who worked to be the best.

 

Did you say quickly? It takes on average 16 hours of actual game play to farm 1 BM Commendation...You consider that quick?

 

LifeMuch?

[Bofromkentwood]

I'm probably just weird because I love playing PvP for the PvP, but it's always nice to have that one goal that seems nigh unachievable, gives you something to look forward to as opposed to just running through the daily grind. Once you're decked out in BM gear there's not much to do but get Valor to 100

 

You say in one sentence that you PvP for the PvP, then you complain that after getting geared there is nothing to do. How about PvPing for the thrill of it? That is what PvP is supposed to be, a thrill of playing against another person because the fight isn't scripted down to the last detail. Back in another massively popular MMO (the game that shall not be named), most raids I barely had to watch the screen because everything was scripted. PvP turns that on it's head. Of course, if someone doesn't use the set PvP "rotation", they are QQ'd to death, and called names. This usually happens though because them changing things up threw the other player off their game and caused the other player to stare at a grey screen. It is happening now over here. I am a Commando. I have Grav Round. Yes, I use Grav Round, but not as often as one might think. Why? Because I have other tactics that for me work better against most classes (IA's, I STILL hate you). That is what PvP is all about.

[jitsuo]

You say in one sentence that you PvP for the PvP, then you complain that after getting geared there is nothing to do. How about PvPing for the thrill of it? That is what PvP is supposed to be, a thrill of playing against another person because the fight isn't scripted down to the last detail. Back in another massively popular MMO (the game that shall not be named), most raids I barely had to watch the screen because everything was scripted. PvP turns that on it's head. Of course, if someone doesn't use the set PvP "rotation", they are QQ'd to death, and called names. This usually happens though because them changing things up threw the other player off their game and caused the other player to stare at a grey screen. It is happening now over here. I am a Commando. I have Grav Round. Yes, I use Grav Round, but not as often as one might think. Why? Because I have other tactics that for me work better against most classes (IA's, I STILL hate you). That is what PvP is all about.

 

Yes, because I like something, I must be in love with every aspect of it. I love PvP for its competitive nature but I will happily admit that it loses its luster once you get geared. I love to PvP but, as my paragraph states, I like to have a goal when I do something, not just aimlessly doing for no reason (I do it now but I do wish I had a goal). It's why I wish there was an arena like there was in WoW, now THAT was something I could do over and over without complaining a bit. Rated BG's will be changing that hopefully.

 

What I do agree is that PvP is about more than a rotation. And PvP is about playing for your team. If my team needs me to sit on our ramps and grapple/stun ball runners into fire pits because my team has no defense, so be it. If they want me going out there and doing a full DPS rotation on everyone on their ramps to clear the way for their ball carrier, so be it. The rotation on this board is a rotation that is "cookie cutter", because it works marginally well-extremely well on all classes.

Edited March 7, 2012 by jitsuo