So it's not ok for "hardcores" to have gear progression?

[Bantua]

By hardcore do you mean people who have too much time on their hands because they dont have a job, still live with their parents , arent married and don't have kids to take care of?

 

Harcore= more time to play

 

Skilled= good at a game

 

Hardcore is not = to skilled

 

Sometimes it is.

 

In some cases yes..personally Im in Afghanistan..i work 10-12 hour days...no family..I use the other 6-7 hours for rest and refreshment..and obviously since i dont have the luxury of shooting to the mall wit the homies...play SWTOR...so if this make me Hardcore cus i spend 6 hours a day on this game then yes..And because of those 6 Hours a day spent in WZ..i do find I am significantly good at playing my class..which equates to real life..practice and time on anything will (should) make you improve

[Umpire]

ITT: people mad they can't play as much as they want and people that are terrible at this game

 

not mutually exclusive

[xJACKTHERIPPERx]

personally, anyone who refers to themselves as 'hardcore' gets a good solid lawl from me and thats about it

[SmokingGoose]

The only gear progressiona pvp games should have that separates the good players from the bad is vanity gear and leaderboards.

The stats for good and bad players gear should be the same.

Anything else is just beeing a baddie.

Edited March 6, 2012 by SmokingGoose

[Richoshist]

Ie..i shoot freethrows2 times a week..I shoot Freethrows everyday..whos better?

 

I'm very athletic. I played basketball in college. Now I shoot free throws 2 times a week.

 

You have downs syndrome. You shoot free throws every day. Sometimes you hit the rim. Usually you miss everything.

 

Who's better?

Edited March 6, 2012 by Richoshist

[JaddynnStarr]

Yes, there are different types of gamers.

 

There are PvPers who PvP because player versus player combat is fun, gets the adrenaline pumping, is exciting. They PvP because PvP is PvP.

 

Then there are posers. Players that don't really care about PvP, but they want the Big Gear because Big Gear means that random people will give them the recognition they desperately lack IRL.

 

It's ironic why so many posers ride the notion of "working for" gear, when they neglect "working on" their skill so damn much.

 

Priorities are just so far off.

 

Isnt this the reason we all game... to have fun and feel like we accomplished something... but i guess it is pre-requisite that you must lack something IRL if u game then... I mean... who doesnt want to be recognized for being a contributor to a teams success... or for finding something new, or new way to do something.... Isnt this what life is about anyways? why do you work at a competitive job IRL? to be recognized... why do you want a 5000 sq ft. house? you dont need that much of a house to live in... but you want to be able to tell your friends "hey, i am successful in life" look at me and my house... so then tell me... why should it be any different in a game that is clearly designed to let those with the will and drive to accomplish a little recognition in a game? Isnt this why you just trolled us? because you want recognition?

[Tweete]

Sorry but it sounds like a gathering of the socialist party on here "We must all have the same gear....we need a level playing field.. Down with the elitists!" Its just a game and people play it for a number of different reasons. Some just want to go into a couple war zones and have a chance. Others like the idea of playing for several hours to get that next new item. I think bioware has to be careful about removing the incentive to play for the second group as well. For those of you who think it wrong for them to play for that reason I respect your opinion but it doesn't mean your right and they are wrong.

[TetraCleric]

Sorry but it sounds like a gathering of the socialist party on here "We must all have the same gear....we need a level playing field.. Down with the elitists!" Its just a game and people play it for a number of different reasons. Some just want to go into a couple war zones and have a chance. Others like the idea of playing for several hours to get that next new item. I think bioware has to be careful about removing the incentive to play for the second group as well. For those of you who think it wrong for them to play for that reason I respect your opinion but it doesn't mean your right and they are wrong.

 

The point of rateds is for a competitive style PvP. That means normalization of gear, and advantages of skill.

 

The people that want the carrot, don't have the carrot anywhere else, and they don't get enough self gratification from a rating. So these players want tangible rewards to show how "good" they are. The problem is some of those people want gear to separate themselves from others so they don't always have to be on top of their game to beat people because of gear disparity.

 

I don't care either way, because at the end of the day, everyone that matters will have the same exact gear anyways, and skill will always come out on top.

[drduncan]

PLEASE....

 

Don't act like getting BM took incredible skill.

 

I already have BM and applaud this change.

 

You people acting like you are rank 1 on your server because you go to BM are a freaking joke.

 

Calling yourselves "hardcore" lol

 

The ONLY thing hardcore about getting to BM was....well.... NOTHING. NO SKILL... NO RATING...Just play alot.

 

That isn't "hardcore" and any real hardcore player will not be afraid of the same gear level.

 

BADS alllllll over this thread crying and QQing.

 

LOL Hardcore...pfft

[Laokoon]

Sorry but it sounds like a gathering of the socialist party on here "We must all have the same gear....we need a level playing field.. Down with the elitists!"

 

You know, I HAVE always had my eye on those socialists running MLB, NBA, NCAA, NHL, and the WMBA. I mean, no rocket-boots? No steroids? Don't even get me started on the Socialist Olympics. I mean, if I can't use a high powered grappling hook to get over the pole vault, what kind of competition is this? Games were never meant to be played on a level playing field, that was what the Ruskies force-fed us in the Cold War to brainwash our kids nowadays. Right?

 

/end sarcasm

Edited March 6, 2012 by Laokoon

[EasymodeX]

why do you want a 5000 sq ft. house? you dont need that much of a house to live in... but you want to be able to tell your friends "hey, i am successful in life" look at me and my house...

 

Are you serious?

 

My first reaction would be: "wow, what a tool". Someone's compensating!

 

 

Sorry but it sounds like a gathering of the socialist party on here "We must all have the same gear....we need a level playing field.. Down with the elitists!" Its just a game

 

IRONY:

 

Comparing a discussion of online gaming parameters to political ideologies.

 

AND THEN SAYING "IT'S JUST A GAME".

 

 

I don't care either way, because at the end of the day, everyone that matters will have the same exact gear anyways, and skill will always come out on top.

 

Not that BiOWare necessarily gives a ****, but I figure if enough players ***** about it, it'll save me some useless grinding time in a later patch.

Edited March 6, 2012 by EasymodeX

[RealAeiouy]

The point of rateds is for a competitive style PvP. That means normalization of gear, and advantages of skill.

 

The people that want the carrot, don't have the carrot anywhere else, and they don't get enough self gratification from a rating. So these players want tangible rewards to show how "good" they are. The problem is some of those people want gear to separate themselves from others so they don't always have to be on top of their game to beat people because of gear disparity.

 

I don't care either way, because at the end of the day, everyone that matters will have the same exact gear anyways, and skill will always come out on top.

 

My feelings as well. I don't mind gear ranks in pvp but I play based on the assumption most people will be in the same gear. I don't care if someone has the same gear as me.

[Laylyn]

When the competetive elements of this game wants gear progression and character advancement it's because "we want to be carried by gear".

Whereas causals feel they should have a clear progression path all the way up to the best gear for little to no effort.

 

Why can't us hardcore players have something to work for that actually takes effort and teamplay to get? I want to feel i earned the gear, not getting it handed to me by merely participating in PvP.

 

Sure competition is it's own reward, which btw is why i'm still racking up lots of games daily even though there is no tangible reward in it for me except more titles. But just as the causals want gear progressions, so do we. Even if the gap is a small one like champ to bm gear, it's still nice to have stuff to look forward too.

 

Ranked players will spend most of their time in ranked warzones so it's not like we will spend all out time ganking you in non ranked.

 

The game was built with a leveling curve that allowed casual players to make 50 in a month. The part you are missing in your arguments is that you are thinking this is a game to focus on only one toon. This isn't Aion where it takes 6-9 months for the average player to get to top level, then even longer to equip.

 

"Hardcore" would be Battle Master on multiple toons in this game. Otherwise, you are only a casual player.

 

If you are endlessly running around on one toon, you are kind of missing the point. In a game like this one, "Hardcore" would be an expert at multiple pvp play styles.

 

Edited March 6, 2012 by Laylyn

[Yutaa]

Counter Strike. "I'm playing for 3 hours a day for 3 years, I don't have any advantage over you besides skill. And I don't want it.".

 

StarCraft. "I'm playing for 3 hours a day for 3 years, I don't have any advantage over you besides skill. And I don't want it."

 

Chess: "I'm playing for 13 years, I don't have any advantage over you besides skill. And I don't want it.".

 

Sport: "I'm playing for X hours a day for Y years, I don't have any advantage over you besides skill. And I don't want it."

 

Whatever besides MMO: "I'm playing for X hours a day for Y years, I don't have any advantage over you besides skill. And I don't want it."

 

MMO with gear progression in PVP: "I'm playing for 8 hours a day for 3 monthes, gif me beter gear I wann to crush those lol noobs carebears zmg or why I was doingthat you just spit on me".

 

Why???

 

2nd question.

Counter Strike. -"Can I join this game" -"Sure!"

 

StarCraft - "Can I join the ladder?" -"You welcome!"

 

Some reallife activity: "Can I join?" "Yeah, go change your clothes"

 

MMO with gear progression in PVP:

- "Can I join?"

- "No you need to spend 120 hours to get all your abilities and then also spend 100+ hours before you get competitive gear. During that period you either will not be able to use all your abilities or will be rolfstomped by those so called "vets" ..."

 

Why???

[ohnam]

Think of it this way: if you hate a game, why do you play it? If you HONESTLY hate a game, you're probably not going to play it. All the people on these forums that say "TOR sucks, I hate it so hardcore" then continue to play the game are liars. They don't hate the game, they just dislike some aspects of it, but not enough for them to quit. Boxers and MMA fighters typically (I'm not going to say all, but there is no hard and fast rule for all people) enjoy what they do which is why they keep doing it, plus it is a job and they need money like everyone else to continue living. Do they want recognition? Sure they do. I totally understand a PvPer wanting recognition (which CAN be through gear progression, but can also be done with leaderboards, titles, superficial objects, ect) and I would not deny that people who are good at something SHOULD receive recognition for their abilities. However, if you are playing a game simply for recognition or simply for prizes, if you don't actually like what you are doing, I would not lump you in the same category as people who enjoy what they do.

 

If a PvEer or PvPer does what they do just because they want some shiny trophy at the end, they are trophy hunters. That is the definition of a trophy hunter. That is why big game hunter stuff and mount their kills. Now, the people that go out there and fish and do "catch and release", they don't get any trophies, they don't get anything but the satisfaction and fun of fishing. There are different categories in which people compete, and to say all PvPers are alike is just plain wrong. The difference between a person who PvPs for gear for the sake of gear and the person who PvPs for recognition to be the best is a mile wide. The same goes for either of those and a person who PvPs for fun. At the end of the day, the person who PvPs because they honestly enjoy the experience are the ones who are going to be around for the long haul and are the ones to whom game developers cater. They are the ones who carry the system, they are the "real" PvPers if there even is such a real thing. Now, that is not to say you can't be more than one of those types of PvPers at the same time: want gear, recognition, and to play for fun. But at the end of the day, which is more important: that you had fun while playing your game or not?

 

Did not read, use more paragraphs if you want people to read this mess.

[ohnam]

Are you serious?

 

My first reaction would be: "wow, what a tool". Someone's compensating!

 

 

 

 

IRONY:

 

Comparing a discussion of online gaming parameters to political ideologies.

 

AND THEN SAYING "IT'S JUST A GAME".

 

 

 

 

Not that BiOWare necessarily gives a ****, but I figure if enough players ***** about it, it'll save me some useless grinding time in a later patch.

 

 

I guess you forum name explains how you really you want the game handed to you.

[Laokoon]

Did not read, use more paragraphs if you want people to read this mess.

 

TL;DNR Version: People play games for fun. They play for other reasons too, but in the long run people who play for fun are the ones who stick around and thus are the ones to whom devs cater to. Hence, "real" PvPers PvP for fun, not trophies.

 

Broke it into paragraphs per your suggestion.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Laokoon

[Tenryou]

I see "Hardcore" thrown about lots in here. Let's take the textbook definition of "hardcore:"

hard-core - stubbornly resistant to change or improvement

 

Sounds about right, judging from this entire topic.

 

How about making gear progression tied to actual performance and not just "grind out X pvp matches for points?" Individual kills, 1v1 performance, objectives completed, number of wins, win:loss percentage? How about they reward you a token for any of those to be used to purchase gear? Then you have a middle ground for both sides. You have gear progression for those who want it and a "showcase of skill" for those who want some significant proof that you actually earned said gear and are worthy of praise.

 

Edit: And then make it so similar geared characters play against each other instead of shoving them all into one zone, no matter how huge the gear discrepancy is.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Tenryou

[ohnam]

TL;DNR Version: People play games for fun. They play for other reasons too, but in the long run people who play for fun are the ones who stick around and thus are the ones to whom devs cater to. Hence, "real" PvPers PvP for fun, not trophies.

 

This is a mmo, its all about to carrots to stick around. Since the dawn of mmo's its been about achieving. Once you take that away mmo's really aren't that fun. The game engines suck compared to fps's.

 

The major factor mmo's have is that you can progress your character through gear or stats. its about development and right now the only way to progress after 1.2 is pve and pvp won't matter for progression.

[TetraCleric]

This is a mmo, its all about to carrots to stick around. Since the dawn of mmo's its been about achieving. Once you take that away mmo's really aren't that fun. The game engines suck compared to fps's.

 

The major factor mmo's have is that you can progress your character through gear or stats. its about development and right now the only way to progress after 1.2 is pve and pvp won't matter for progression.

 

Rated is competitive PvP. That's why the carrot is in normal.

[ohnam]

I see "Hardcore" thrown about lots in here. Let's take the textbook definition of "hardcore:"

hard-core - stubbornly resistant to change or improvement

 

Sounds about right, judging from this entire topic.

 

How about making gear progression tied to actual performance and not just "grind out X pvp matches for points?" Individual kills, 1v1 performance, objectives completed, number of wins, win:loss percentage? How about they reward you a token for any of those to be used to purchase gear? Then you have a middle ground for both sides. You have gear progression for those who want it and a "showcase of skill" for those who want some significant proof that you actually earned said gear and are worthy of praise.

 

Edit: And then make it so similar geared characters play against each other instead of shoving them all into one zone, no matter how huge the gear discrepancy is.

 

There are more than one definition to hard core from urban dicitonary:

 

hard core

having an intense (often excessive) interest in or enthusiasm for some particular activity, pastime or hobby

Edited March 6, 2012 by ohnam

[EternalFinality]

This is a mmo, its all about to carrots to stick around. Since the dawn of mmo's its been about achieving. Once you take that away mmo's really aren't that fun. The game engines suck compared to fps's.

 

The major factor mmo's have is that you can progress your character through gear or stats. its about development and right now the only way to progress after 1.2 is pve and pvp won't matter for progression.

 

And people are getting tired of the MMO carrot model. They want things more competitive. If we wanted to play a FPS we'd be playing an FPS. I personally like hitting people with lightsabers until they die.

 

Until they put out a real multiplayer sequel to Jedi Knight 2 this is the best we have.

[Laokoon]

This is a mmo, its all about to carrots to stick around. Since the dawn of mmo's its been about achieving. Once you take that away mmo's really aren't that fun. The game engines suck compared to fps's.

 

The major factor mmo's have is that you can progress your character through gear or stats. its about development and right now the only way to progress after 1.2 is pve and pvp won't matter for progression.

 

Again, I am saying this for the umpteenth time, (guessing you havent read the through the rest of the thread): I have not read one single objection to having progression and recognition via a leaderboard system and stat tracking. That way you get your recognition, you get to say you are better than others and show how much skill you have, and at the same time you get to play on a level playing field with no gear advantage so when you win, it is all skill, not gear. Lots of games do this, it works.

 

MMOs need gear progression in single player, it is not necessary in PvP if you have a leaderboard and stat tracking.

[ohnam]

Again, I am saying this for the umpteenth time, (guessing you havent read the through the rest of the thread): I have not read one single objection to having progression and recognition via a leaderboard system and stat tracking. That way you get your recognition, you get to say you are better than others and show how much skill you have, and at the same time you get to play on a level playing field with no gear advantage so when you win, it is all skill, not gear. Lots of games do this, it works.

 

MMOs need gear progression in single player, it is not necessary in PvP if you have a leaderboard and stat tracking.

 

I don't want that, I want stats. I don't care if get owned or own someone else. I want to improve my toon in game and that's just visceral fluff.

[EasymodeX]

Did not read, use more paragraphs if you want people to read this mess.

 

ADHD is a tragedy.

 

Perhaps you're not geared properly to partake in forum discussion?

Edited March 6, 2012 by EasymodeX