Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[ounkeo]

The people saying Macs aren't for gaming or aren't "optimized" for gaming are full of bantha fodder.

 

The hardware is just as effective for gaming as windows hardware. In fact, it's probably better because all the hardware comes from the same place. When you buy a Windows PC, you are buying all different companies parts that are being put together.

 

It is not a matter if macs are "optimized" for gaming or some bogus nonsense that some people are throwing out. It comes down to the software. Asking for a port of a game for a fast growing operating system is not a ridiculous request.

 

Macs can run swtor just as well as PC's can. In fact, I have a friend with a windows laptop with the same specs as my macbook and my laptop outperforms his when using bootcamp.

 

Saying Macs arent meant for gaming is a pretty uneducated statement, because when you say Mac, you really mean the OS, because the hardware is pretty much the same. The only reason there aren't as many games on the Mac is because they aren't being supported. They are more than capable to play them.

 

Current top line MBP vs mid 2011 HP Envy 17 where the MBP has a better graphics card and slightly faster proc. The Envy performs a good 15%-20% better than the MBP in 3d gaming. Boot camp is good to get things running from the Windows environment, but the drivers are another issue entirely. You simply will NOT get the same performance. It really isn't a contest.

 

Also, you say it is just software. Yes, it's software. Mac hardware is relatively good but in the PC performance world, it's considered a medium performance machine particularly in gaming. Bioware can optimise the game all they want for the Mac but when the Mac doesn't have proper drivers to make use of the hardware, it's really quite pointless.

 

Macs are well known for trading top end performance for power efficiency. Anything that's going to tax the GPU isn't and hasn't ever been a priority for them. Their focus is on CPU performance, which is where most general users really need the power.

 

There is always a tradeoff.

[RuQu]

I think the obvious point that keeps getting missed is that this is absolutely NOT about which make better gaming computers.

 

BW has repeatedly stated they are working hard to get this game to run on bottom of the barrel decade old computers. It was during exactly this statement that Daniel Erickson said "Macs can use Bootstrap[sic] just fine."

 

This isn't about targeting hardcore gamers. This is about targeting the casual market. People who will not buy a new computer for gaming, people who don't know how or don't want to build a computer or upgrade their own video card. This is about reaching out to the non-traditional gaming market...because that is how you go from a 2 million player game to a 10 million player game.

 

If you are a hardcore gamer you absolutely should be using a PC. Even if your current Mac can do just as well, in 6 months you are going to want a new graphics card and you will be SOL on a Mac (and my family have been Mac people since before I was born, as we are from Silicon Valley and my grandfather was an early adopter and Apple investor). They are far easier to use...at the expense of being far less upgrade-able, which is something a hardcore gamer needs.

 

But that isn't the market in question. When discussing the non-hardcore market and tailoring the game to work on the systems they have, he completely disregarded a good chunk of that market. If a person is enough into gaming they will already have a gaming computer, and if they don't but like SW enough to pay for a Windows license just to play it...they already are subscribed.

 

You will get almost no new Boot Camp subscribers from here on out.

 

Those of us willing to make that investment to play this game (and I did buy Windows just for SWTOR) are already here.

[Iandayen]

The people saying Macs aren't for gaming or aren't "optimized" for gaming are full of bantha fodder.

 

The hardware is just as effective for gaming as windows hardware. In fact, it's probably better because all the hardware comes from the same place. When you buy a Windows PC, you are buying all different companies parts that are being put together.

 

It is not a matter if macs are "optimized" for gaming or some bogus nonsense that some people are throwing out. It comes down to the software. Asking for a port of a game for a fast growing operating system is not a ridiculous request.

 

Macs can run swtor just as well as PC's can. In fact, I have a friend with a windows laptop with the same specs as my macbook and my laptop outperforms his when using bootcamp.

 

Saying Macs arent meant for gaming is a pretty uneducated statement, because when you say Mac, you really mean the OS, because the hardware is pretty much the same. The only reason there aren't as many games on the Mac is because they aren't being supported. They are more than capable to play them.

 

 

Going to point out a few things.

 

First off- their hardware does not come from the same place - Intel makes the CPU's Seagate makes the hard drives, Gigabyte and intel make the motherboards, the RAM is generic low performance RAM from multiple manufacturers.

 

Macs can not run swtor as well as a PC - a $1500 built windows PC will run swtor better than a $16,000 mac pro.

 

Macs are not meant for gaming - period. They don't have the ability to get the same gaming performance a PC can - Macs can't SLI or crossfire which is huge in gaming performance. Their processors are the lower end processors - the firs I5 and I7 processors in the macbooks and Imacs weren't even true quad cores - they were dual core hyperthreaded.

[dirtyklingon]

wow is barely supported on osx and runs like **** on the platform due a variety of factors form **** poor kernel to **** poor drivers on OSX to being openGL, though ont eh last note, wow does run alot better on *nix with nvidia hardware than it does on osx with the same hardware, let alone typical mac builds.

 

 

now let's get this straight. you bought mac. idk what you bought your mac for but back up a bit, and think about what you planned to do with it. chances are linux or windows on teh same hardware for cheaper would suit your task better, and do it better faster adn more relaibily with a better UI.

 

but let's pretend you intended to play games on it from the get go. w t f were you thinking. you overpaid for a mistmatch of hardware that doesn't suit gaming by any measure when added up, on a os that doesn't do gaming well even when game devs support it natively, and not just because apple limits the ability of both devs and hardware makers to properly suppor their hrdware adn apps on teh platofrm effectively.

 

the very best efforts of a dev making a cross platform game run natively on mac results in half assed end product, that you will inevitably only qq about then take up even more CS man hours demanding support for from teh dev's publisher.

 

so ultimately, you got what you paid for, and fools are easily parted with their gold when it comes to shiny but worthless trinkets.

[Kennkra]

Cause it's gonna cost ya. Yes, Bootcamp does allow you to run Windows programs. That's how I play the game...and i spent an extra $120 just for the privilege.

 

Right now a large number of players use Macs running Bootcamp, and they spent $100-$180 for the chance to play this game.

 

Some of us really love this game. We'd love to get some of our friends and family members to play...but they use Macs to.

 

Every time you say, as Daniel Erickson did during the Guild Summit Livestream, that "Bootcamp works just fine," while discussing making this game accessible to as many systems as possible is "you bought an expensive computer that can run this game like a champ....clearly you can afford another $100, and therefore you are not a priority market for us. On the other hand, letting your grandmother run it on her 10 year old PC is an important demographic."

 

I realize that creating a client for another system is harder than optimization for one system, but being so dismissive of a decent chunk of the population is not helpful, nor does it engender goodwill in the customers who did pay an extra $100-$180 just to play your game.

 

There is another MMO company out there (you may have heard of them...they dominate the industry) who has done near simultaneous releases since 1996 with the second of the franchise that launched the most successful MMO ever...and that MMO was also launched for both Windows and Mac simultaneously.

 

I understand if your answer is "not soon." It's a technical hurdle and you didn't build for it from the start (though you probably should have). However, saying "if you want to play it, go drop an extra hundred bucks for you, your spouse, and everyone else you know who you want to get into the game and happens to be Mac people" is quite insulting to hear.

 

RuQu, There are other ways to get bootcamp or other soft that those the same.

 

If i could make eclipse+BB/Android sim on a mac mini not paying 1 more u$S you surely can run swtor without doing so.

 

Mac are vanity items, not workstations or gamer plataforms.Yea sure, you have unix, so does linux, oh sure you have xcode to do some coding at objective-c(c, c++ and i think that php but im not sure about it), and some after effects and edition softs (*********** EXPENSIVE STUFF) in there also. So the reason they are saying that is that if u have a MAC you have it for 1 of 4 reasons. 1 Fanboy 2 Vanity 3 work (editing and programing for mac, thats it)

 

1 Fanboy? **** then

2 vanity? then go and pay for more vanity soft

3 work? this is the only valid reason to have a mac client.

 

Oh and i forgot about something, you can use vmware soft and make a virtual machine, run windows on it and play the game without payin anything

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kennkra

[TiiRahnedancer]

No, you need the full retail license for $200.

 

For the actual fact, the OEM license is not allowed to be installed on Boot Camp, therefore illegal. Probably no big deal other than it also excludes you from support from Microsoft.

 

Not exactly. OEM software is sold to computer manufacturers and intended to be bundled with a brand new computer. It's not supposed to be sold seperately regardless the computer it will be installed on. It doesn't matter if you intend to install it on a Bootcamp partition or on a PC, if it didn't come with the computer you bought then the manufacturer of the OEM didn't intend for you to obtain the OEM license.

 

Regardless, it isn't illegal to purchase and install OEM software. There's no law whatsoever that prevents anyone from doing this.

 

$200 sounds more like the retail price than an OEM price. Buying either OEM software or hardware is almost always cheaper than buying retail since OEMs are usually purchased in bulk for steep discounts.

 

Anyway, a quick search just revealed an online store that sells all MS software (not OEMs but retail versions) at discounted prices. They had Win Vista priced at $50. So again, unless you simply must have the latest version for your Bootcamp partition there is money to be saved if you're looking for a copy of Windows to run the game.

 

Despite the desire for some Mac users to play on their Macs, it simply is a matter of numbers. Gamers make up a small number of PC users and Macs make up a small number of those PC users. It doesn't make economic sense to target that market unless they have a much larger player base to support the port.

 

It seems to make sense for BioWare considering how many of their games they've made available for Mac OS.

[Ebbikenezer]

While Macs certainly have their share of the market, Gamers who use Macs just simply do not hold enough of the market share to sway decisions for (most, almost all) game developers.

 

I agree, there should be a Mac version. But I also completely understand the logic behind not developing one.

 

Also I'm sure every single person running Boot Camp not only paid for it, but has fully working DRM on their entire digital content collection. /sarcasm:rolleyes:

 

Not to mention: If you really are wholeheartedly supporting Apple products: You DO have MORE than enough money for a legal copy of Boot Camp considering what you are pissing away for a slightly above average machine.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Ebbikenezer

[RuQu]

of 3 reasons. 1 Fanboy 2 Vanity item 3 work (editing, programing for mac, thats it)

 

Really? Only 3? I can think of a lot more.

 

4) User friendly. Take an old person who isn't familiar with computers but does't mind spending the money for a Mac. It is a far better choice for them.

 

5) Low maintenance. It is far easier to keep a Mac running well than a PC. For the non-tech savvy this is a huge advantage. Don't bother saying that it is easy on a PC...it is effortless on a Mac. A Mac can run for 6+ years with no maintenance and no noticeable performance change (as did my last one). I cannot say the same for any of the PCs I have owned.

 

6) Legacy. (pun intended). My family has used Macs since the 80s. I grew up with a Commodore 128 and Macs in the house. Yes, I could easily port most of my files to a PC, but everything I do is supported on a Mac, so why should I? (up to and including all of the non-xbox games I played...notably SC2 and WoW).

 

7) Houeshold inter-operability. It is easier to maintain and run a home network if all of the computers run the same OS. It can be done with different ones, but not everyone has that skill set.

 

And, let us not forget that none of this discussion is about top end performance. It is about low-end to middle performance. Any argument about the top end completely misses the point.

[Kennkra]

you are pissing away for a slightly above average machine.

 

 

That Sir is false.

 

No mac is "slighty above average machine" when speaking at the same scale of investment. You could get a RLY powerfull PC for 2000u$S while you get less than half the power for the same price but with and apple on it.

[RuQu]

wow is barely supported on osx and runs like **** on the platform due a variety of factors form **** poor kernel to **** poor drivers on OSX to being openGL, though ont eh last note, wow does run alot better on *nix with nvidia hardware than it does on osx with the same hardware, let alone typical mac builds.

 

 

now let's get this straight. you bought mac. idk what you bought your mac for but back up a bit, and think about what you planned to do with it. chances are linux or windows on teh same hardware for cheaper would suit your task better, and do it better faster adn more relaibily with a better UI.

 

but let's pretend you intended to play games on it from the get go. w t f were you thinking. you overpaid for a mistmatch of hardware that doesn't suit gaming by any measure when added up, on a os that doesn't do gaming well even when game devs support it natively, and not just because apple limits the ability of both devs and hardware makers to properly suppor their hrdware adn apps on teh platofrm effectively.

 

the very best efforts of a dev making a cross platform game run natively on mac results in half assed end product, that you will inevitably only qq about then take up even more CS man hours demanding support for from teh dev's publisher.

 

so ultimately, you got what you paid for, and fools are easily parted with their gold when it comes to shiny but worthless trinkets.

 

Not sure what Mac client of WoW you were running, but I played it from 2004 until Early Access of SWTOR, and I played it almost exclusively on my Mac. Back in 2004 I had my Mac Pro and a new (at the time) high end Alienware, and I preferred playing WoW on the Mac. I eventually just stopped using that Alienware at all, and just had it running DVDs while I played WoW.

 

Perhaps the benchmarks showed different results than my anecdotal experience, but unless you are in some top tier FPS competitions a Mac can and does play any game that is released for it just fine.

[Kennkra]

Really? Only 3? I can think of a lot more.

 

4) User friendly. Take an old person who isn't familiar with computers but does't mind spending the money for a Mac. It is a far better choice for them.

 

5) Low maintenance. It is far easier to keep a Mac running well than a PC. For the non-tech savvy this is a huge advantage. Don't bother saying that it is easy on a PC...it is effortless on a Mac. A Mac can run for 6+ years with no maintenance and no noticeable performance change (as did my last one). I cannot say the same for any of the PCs I have owned.

 

6) Legacy. (pun intended). My family has used Macs since the 80s. I grew up with a Commodore 128 and Macs in the house. Yes, I could easily port most of my files to a PC, but everything I do is supported on a Mac, so why should I? (up to and including all of the non-xbox games I played...notably SC2 and WoW).

 

7) Houeshold inter-operability. It is easier to maintain and run a home network if all of the computers run the same OS. It can be done with different ones, but not everyone has that skill set.

 

And, let us not forget that none of this discussion is about top end performance. It is about low-end to middle performance. Any argument about the top end completely misses the point.

 

4) my grandmother and granfather(with alzermeirs, rly advanced) have a PC runing windows XP and have no problem sending mails and buying stuff online. Dont know how much user friendly u want it, Doesnt matter if it has a apple or a window on it, you will certenly going to explain things to your elders.

 

5) a 2000u$s mac is less than half of a 2000u$s PC. And you can run SOFT with a 6+ year old computer coz the soft its compiling its problably made ONLY for this kind of machine and this tipe of config, is ALMOST like saying "See, i can use my FFVI on my PS 1 and it just released this year and has more graphics that prior FFs". I work with both apple and windows i know what im talking about. And the fact that there isnt any demanding SOFT for apple out there. You can run all apple SOFT or all apple oriented soft with a mac mini or power mac.

 

6) This, ruqu is a valid reason, but its also fanatism and you know it, i saw your other topics at healing subforum i know you have brains.

 

7) its also easy to do it at Windows. And you can also get a network going with windows + mac eh. I've done it at work. Samba is your friend (smb)

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kennkra

[Morthis]

I don't understand how people can keep arguing Macs are good gaming platforms too.

 

I'm sure Mac has powerful hardware, and that's important, but it's incredibly silly to pretend that's the only thing that matters. Software plays a huge role in this as well, especially when it comes to graphics. Let's look at two important aspects of that, the graphics API and the video card driver.

 

Microsoft has plenty of reason to keep working on improving DirectX. For one, it's a good way to try and keep Windows as the primary gaming platform for computers, plus with the way they keep making a new version of Windows required for higher versions of DirectX, they also encourage people to upgrade their OS. Their competition here is open source API's, which will always struggle to offer as much as a product backed by a company that has a vested interest in keeping their product at the top.

 

Then there's video card drivers. Go take a look at video card driver updates. Nvidia and ATI spend a huge amount of time working with games developers to optimize their drivers for specific games, and are often able to get very significant improvements in performance simply by tuning their drivers to run the game most efficiently. Again, it's in their best interest as a company to keep making these drivers better, because we, as gamers, can pick which company to go with.

 

What does Mac have in this category? Nothing really. There's nothing driving anyone to push software optimization for Mac hardware. Even if we accept one of the typical arguments of "Mac hardware is better", it still doesn't matter because software plays a huge role as well. It's like trying to hammer in a nail with a sledgehammer, sure it might work, but you could just get a normal hammer which does a much better job at half the price.

[RuQu]

While Macs certainly have their share of the market, Gamers who use Macs just simply do not hold enough of the market share to sway decisions for (most, almost all) game developers.

 

I agree, there should be a Mac version. But I also completely understand the logic behind not developing one.

 

Also I'm sure every single person running Boot Camp not only paid for it, but has fully working DRM on their entire digital content collection. /sarcasm:rolleyes:

 

Not to mention: If you really are wholeheartedly supporting Apple products: You DO have MORE than enough money for a legal copy of Boot Camp considering what you are pissing away for a slightly above average machine.

 

Well, I do. Which is why I did.

 

I'm also pretty sure that anyone who had enough interest in SWTOR to buy a copy of Windows just to play it has already done so. Therefore, without a Mac client, their Mac market penetration via Boot Camp is already close to saturated. If they want to continue to attract non-traditional gamers (who by definition don't have gaming machines), which they have stated is their intent behind pushing for lower system requirements, they cannot get any of the non-traditional gamer market who uses Macs (which, as has been pointed out, is most of the Mac market since serious gamers buy or build PCs).

[RuQu]

I don't understand how people can keep arguing Macs are good gaming platforms too.

 

...

 

That's okay. I don't understand how people can fail to grasp that the non-traditional gamer market is far larger than the hardcore gamers, and that tapping into that is a huge potential cash flow. It is by tapping into that population that WoW got so successful, by getting people to play who had never played video games before.

 

Hardcore Gamers have high end gaming computers.

 

Non-gamers have low-end PCs or they have Macs.

 

They have stated they are pursuing low-end PC users....but are actively ignoring Macs.

 

Why are they choosing to ignore a large reservoir of non-traditional gamers?

[Dayfax]

wow is barely supported on osx and runs like **** on the platform due a variety of factors form **** poor kernel to **** poor drivers on OSX to being openGL, though ont eh last note, wow does run alot better on *nix with nvidia hardware than it does on osx with the same hardware, let alone typical mac builds.

 

Wha? Competely counter to my experience running WoW on Macs for 5+ years.

 

chances are linux or windows on teh same hardware for cheaper would suit your task better, and do it better faster adn more relaibily with a better UI.

 

So, you're claiming that an OS based on BSD isn't as reliable as Windows? LOL, c'mon dude. If you're going to restart the platform wars, you gotta try hard than that.

 

Same goes for the GUI. Whatever advantages Windows had over Mac, the GUI was never one of them. Good god.

[Kennkra]

That's okay. I don't understand how people can fail to grasp that the non-traditional gamer market is far larger than the hardcore gamers, and that tapping into that is a huge potential cash flow. It is by tapping into that population that WoW got so successful, by getting people to play who had never played video games before.

 

Hardcore Gamers have high end gaming computers.

 

Non-gamers have low-end PCs or they have Macs.

 

They have stated they are pursuing low-end PC users....but are actively ignoring Macs.

 

Why are they choosing to ignore a large reservoir of non-traditional gamers?

 

RuQu, if you want send me a PM with your mail and i guide you step by step how to run a VM with windows inside and istall swtor on it, I don't know how its going to run, but it as you say, you aren a low-core gamer and have a mac trying to play without spending $100 per client.

 

Workstations, gaming, programing, editing, soft development, filing, servers, a *********** BIG ETC. All those things a PC can do it with ease(both windows and linux)

 

Macs

 

Programing ONLY for APPLE, Editing only with Apple soft (2000u$s for a licence, lol)

 

 

Wha? Competely counter to my experience running WoW on Macs for 5+ years.

 

 

 

So, you're claiming that an OS based on BSD isn't as reliable as Windows? LOL, c'mon dude. If you're going to restart the platform wars, you gotta try hard than that.

 

Same goes for the GUI. Whatever advantages Windows had over Mac, the GUI was never one of them. Good god.

 

I think he is talking about linux when he mention GUI. Linux has better, faster and more user friendly GUI than apple or Windows, and its free xD

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kennkra

[Onyx]

Answer: absolutely no advantage.

 

If you're an educated/savvy user then a PC does everything and more that a Mac does. It's a logical fallacy that Macs are better at multimedia. 15+ years ago they were but these days it's no longer the case. If your machine has the resources then it can handle the load of Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects and so on. I use a Mac periodically at work that ran a little over $5,000. My personal machine ran about $700 and it runs 'slightly' slower. It's laughable really.

 

In all my years I've never come close to being convinced that a Mac was worth the money. Get a loaded PC and spend 1/3 the money. You won't be sorry.

 

That's false.

 

The hardware is essentially the same. The OS isn't.

 

OSX rides on top of a BSD kernel. Windows does not.

 

In otherwords, a Mac can do anything a PC can. But the reverse is not true--unless you're running your PC as a hackintosh:)

 

There are other things, but I won't waste the space here with them.

[RuQu]

4) my grandmother and granfather(with alzermeirs, rly advanced) have a PC runing windows XP and have no problem sending mails and buying stuff online. Dont know how much user friendly u want it, Doesnt matter if it has a apple or a window on it, you will certenly going to explain things to your elders.

 

5) a 2000u$s mac is less than half of a 2000u$s PC. And you can run SOFT with a 6+ year old computer coz the soft its compiling its problably made ONLY for this kind of machine and this tipe of config, is ALMOST like saying "See, i can use my FFVI on my PS 1 and it just released this year and has more graphics that prior FFs". I work with both apple and windows i know what im talking about.

 

6) This, ruqu is a valid reason, but its also fanatism and you know it, i saw your other topics at healing subforum i know you have brains.

 

7) its also easy to do it at Windows. And you can also get a network going with windows + mac eh. I've done it at work.

 

Because you can, or I can, doesn't mean anyone can. Ease of use is a major selling factor for Macs. It isn't just the turn it on and send email, its the security, the virus scans, the registry cleaning, the stupid **** old people download that is packed with spyware and malware, the hard drive maintenance. None of this is difficult, but it is all easier on a Mac, and for the non-tech savvy that can be worth the extra cash. Hell, not having to clean malware off of your grandparent's computer once a month is worth covering the difference yourself. And sure, this is because the market is smaller and it isn't worth it for the malware creators to target Macs, and not an intrinsic property, but that doesn't remove the benefit at present.

 

As I mentioned, I had a high end Mac Pro and a high end Alienware at the same time. I used the Alienware for games with no Mac client, like SWG, but for games with one, like WC3 and WoW at the time, I saw no performance degradation on the Mac. Did they cost the same? I honestly don't remember and I didn't care at the time (I was a bit flush, and single...wives are expensive and look at you funny when you buy two expensive computers in one year).

 

I'd prefer to call it Loyalty than Fanaticism. My grandfather...he might be a fanatic. Then again, he lives just down the road from Cupertino and attends Apple shareholder meetings, so he has a vested interest. I never really cared about anything Jobs said, and I only just now bought my wife an iPad to decrease the odds of her breaking her laptop she kept placing in precarious positions (cheaper to replace a busted iPad) and I don't use one myself as I think they are strange and silly. I have 3 PC laptops and a tower in my house (all a bit dated now). So I don't think I'm a fanatic, though I am a fan.

 

And yes, you can get cross-platform networks to work, they just don't work as well unless you really know what you are doing. People have different levels of technical savvy. If they only sold SWTOR to people who really knew what they were doing, they servers would be a lot quieter. if they want to increase non-traditional subscriptions, they need to expand their market.

[Kennkra]

That's false.

 

The hardware is essentially the same. The OS isn't.

 

OSX rides on top of a BSD kernel. Windows does not.

 

In otherwords, a Mac can do anything a PC can. But the reverse is not true--unless you're running your PC as a hackintosh:)

 

There are other things, but I won't waste the space here with them.

 

You are absoluty correct, but you forgot to mention something

 

a mac can do anything a pc can, but you have to pay a fortune for every little tiny thing you want to do. And thats not Windows thats apple problem, the only thing they see is $$$

 

 

Because you can, or I can, doesn't mean anyone can. Ease of use is a major selling factor for Macs. It isn't just the turn it on and send email, its the security, the virus scans, the registry cleaning, the stupid **** old people download that is packed with spyware and malware, the hard drive maintenance. None of this is difficult, but it is all easier on a Mac, and for the non-tech savvy that can be worth the extra cash. Hell, not having to clean malware off of your grandparent's computer once a month is worth covering the difference yourself. And sure, this is because the market is smaller and it isn't worth it for the malware creators to target Macs, and not an intrinsic property, but that doesn't remove the benefit at present.

 

As I mentioned, I had a high end Mac Pro and a high end Alienware at the same time. I used the Alienware for games with no Mac client, like SWG, but for games with one, like WC3 and WoW at the time, I saw no performance degradation on the Mac. Did they cost the same? I honestly don't remember and I didn't care at the time (I was a bit flush, and single...wives are expensive and look at you funny when you buy two expensive computers in one year).

 

I'd prefer to call it Loyalty than Fanaticism. My grandfather...he might be a fanatic. Then again, he lives just down the road from Cupertino and attends Apple shareholder meetings, so he has a vested interest. I never really cared about anything Jobs said, and I only just now bought my wife an iPad to decrease the odds of her breaking her laptop she kept placing in precarious positions (cheaper to replace a busted iPad) and I don't use one myself as I think they are strange and silly. I have 3 PC laptops and a tower in my house (all a bit dated now). So I don't think I'm a fanatic, though I am a fan.

 

And yes, you can get cross-platform networks to work, they just don't work as well unless you really know what you are doing. People have different levels of technical savvy. If they only sold SWTOR to people who really knew what they were doing, they servers would be a lot quieter. if they want to increase non-traditional subscriptions, they need to expand their market.

 

 

Dude... ok, whatever, not going to point out everything just how i did before. gonna sum it up a lot by saying the following: Get LINUX and the first thing you are going to say is "WHY THE **** DID I GIVE APPLE MY MONEY" because ABSOTLY ALL what you are sayin can be done at linux, with better securty, better stability, beter gui, better userfriendly, etc. and its free

 

And again, if you PM me with your email or at least say you are interest and i will pm mine, i can guide you how to play without payin (Exept the swtor game lol xD)

 

You dont know how many times do I get mails from customer asking for the same apps that i published at android market to be uploaded to app store. They are 2 diferent worlds. Just like PC gaming is from Console gaming. Developers can simply make a client run multiplataform. By this im saying its not easy and its not something done at one night. Im not saying that is close to asking for a PS3 Client, but its not far either. And hero engine is probably the one to point in here.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kennkra

[RuQu]

RuQu, if you want send me a PM with your mail and i guide you step by step how to run a VM with windows inside and istall swtor on it, I don't know how its going to run, but it as you say, you aren a low-core gamer and have a mac trying to play without spending $100 per client.

 

Workstations, gaming, programing, editing, soft development, filing, servers, a *********** BIG ETC. All those things a PC can do it with ease(both windows and linux)

 

Macs

 

Programing ONLY for APPLE, Editing only with Apple soft (2000u$s for a licence, lol)

 

 

 

 

I think he is talking about linux when he mention GUI. Linux has better, faster and more user friendly GUI than apple or Windows, and its free xD

 

I've already spent it and run SWTOR via Boot Camp. Them releasing a Mac client won't do me much good. The point of the OP was really to just keep this post on the front page long enough get seen a bit, and point out that non-traditional gamers need to be attracted to an MMO if you ever want to see anything like WoW's numbers. And that means not neglecting a large portion of that population.

 

For instance, my wife is a non-gamer. She uses a Mac. I think she'd enjoy the game since she loves SW and good story-telling, but not enough to spend the money on a Windows license. If there was a Mac client, I'd install it on her computer, though, and they might just convert a non-gamer into a MMO player and have a subscriber for years. I played WoW with lots of people who had never gamed before, and heard people talk about it in the strangest places. I over heard a 60ish woman working the TSA scanner in middle-of-nowhere Alaska talking to her coworker about her WoW character...that's pretty impressive market penetration.

[Bigbozo]

Cause it's gonna cost ya. Yes, Bootcamp does allow you to run Windows programs. That's how I play the game...and i spent an extra $120 just for the privilege.

 

Right now a large number of players use Macs running Bootcamp, and they spent $100-$180 for the chance to play this game.

 

Some of us really love this game. We'd love to get some of our friends and family members to play...but they use Macs to.

 

Every time you say, as Daniel Erickson did during the Guild Summit Livestream, that "Bootcamp works just fine," while discussing making this game accessible to as many systems as possible is "you bought an expensive computer that can run this game like a champ....clearly you can afford another $100, and therefore you are not a priority market for us. On the other hand, letting your grandmother run it on her 10 year old PC is an important demographic."

 

I realize that creating a client for another system is harder than optimization for one system, but being so dismissive of a decent chunk of the population is not helpful, nor does it engender goodwill in the customers who did pay an extra $100-$180 just to play your game.

 

There is another MMO company out there (you may have heard of them...they dominate the industry) who has done near simultaneous releases since 1996 with the second of the franchise that launched the most successful MMO ever...and that MMO was also launched for both Windows and Mac simultaneously.

 

I understand if your answer is "not soon." It's a technical hurdle and you didn't build for it from the start (though you probably should have). However, saying "if you want to play it, go drop an extra hundred bucks for you, your spouse, and everyone else you know who you want to get into the game and happens to be Mac people" is quite insulting to hear.

 

Couldnt be bothered to read all this thread.

 

But if you want to game, buy a gaming computer.

 

Macs have their place, just not in gaming. Macs suck for gaming. So if you try to game on a Mac expect to allways be second or third in the market, and last for support.

[terminova]

Checking various sites, Mac vs PC and PC have 85-90% of the market (checking one site would not give a proper average hence multiple sites), now as a business you need to see where you want to invest your money in for the quickest return.

 

Also you have to look at what percentage of Mac users are actual gamers and out of that 10-15% you have about half which is not a lot of people to justify spending on programming for another platform where the return may not cover the expense.

 

And if you notice the trend, regardless of what That big company did and make a release for both platforms, that is one out of tons of companies that don't do that and they still strive.

 

Either accept boot camp and those around you that want to play will need to do the same or buy a PC, something that will still do multimedia as well as gaming.

 

I remember growing up, and owning a Mac. Game versions for Macs, at the time, lagged PC versions meaning by the time a Mac version came out, the PC version was already on the next iteration, and the Mac version was a port of an earlier one. Granted, this was in the late 80s, early 90s. So, while Apple has gotten a bigger share of the computer market since then, the gaming market is still largely aimed at PCs and consoles with some producing ports for Macs.

 

*shrug* Ultimately, it's not cheap to port a game to another platform, and if the market isn't deemed large enough to support doing so, then the company is unlikely to do so.

[UnleashedSithGod]

You guy all realize that a mac is a pc right? I hope so.

 

Now, if you're talking about the different os on a windows pc vs a macintosh pc then I understand.

[Kennkra]

Macs where more powerfull when they used PowerPC cores

 

Yeap the name of the CPU they used was PowerPC

 

but now they just us intel. Just like any PC does.

 

LOL i was reading wikipedia coz i dint remember it was poweruser or powerpc and i find out APPLE said (2003) they newest mac is the faster personal computer in the world (they cost 75.500u$S). AMD and Intel sued apple because that wasnt true at any level, a 10.000u$s personal computer was faster usen xeon cpu's and linux

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kennkra

[Dayfax]

Macs

 

Programing ONLY for APPLE, Editing only with Apple soft (2000u$s for a licence, lol)

 

Lol indeed. Nothing you said is actually true.

 

Developer licenses cost $100 each for OS X and iOS, per year. Apple gives anyone -- registered developer or not -- an IDE for free, and no, you're not forced to use it.

 

And you can develop anything you like on Macs, not just native apps. Unix apps, web apps, Java apps, Flash apps and .. Gasp, yes, even Windows apps.

 

I think he is talking about linux when he mention GUI. Linux has better, faster and more user friendly GUI than apple or Windows, and its free xD

 

If you're seriously one of those "linux on the desktop 2012!" people, seek professional help now.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Dayfax