Expertise - As seen from both sides of the fence. It is broken.

[Rasheth]

You need to have amassed 4800 total Warzone commendations when you hit 50 to get your 6 bags. Since you cannot begin queuing until level 10 this averages out to 123 Commendations per level.

 

You are telling me that you are not hard core enough to participate in 2 Warzones each level while leveling up?

 

Facts>Feelings QFT

 

It isn't that hard to get the max comms before you hit 50.

 

People on the op's side of the argument should just admit they where unaware for several levels until it was to late to max their comms before 50. Their should have been a tooltip and they would have been satisfied!!

 

It really only lasts a week or so getting beat on. I had most of my cent in about a week was around 7% expertise.

 

Lets say for arguments sake you didnt have the 6 bags when you hit 50! So you do the weekly armament=3 bags weekly warzone 3 bags, daily warzone wins 1 bag daily armament 1 bag!

 

thats 8 bags in the first week! Now if you did have your comms maxed thats 14 bags.

 

Save the Centurion RELICS for last they only provide endurance no expertise. I see alot of people buy them first.

 

 

So your getting spanked everytime you want to go que up for a wz go get your armaments for about 15-20 (average time of warzone) get a few pieces and hop back in there.

[RefugeASSASSIN]

I would rather have 15 minute queue times with quality players than instant pops when I am paired with teams of whining, sniveling, terrible players. I do not want to listen you to you ***** for 15 straight minutes on how bad the team is only to have it revealed at the end that you did 20k damage, 0 protection, and 0 healing.

 

If the 24 hour gap between getting rolled and competing is insurmountable to you then (in my best old man voice) get the hell out of my Warzone. 99% of the people that are PVPing in this game are just straight up terrible at it, or farming medals because of the broken *** valor system.

 

I suggest you go back and objectively read what I was posting. I never once said that the gear grind was insurmountable, as a matter of fact my argument was quite the opposite. My point was to all the people who are saying that fresh 50's are unbalanced because of the expertise difference are simply blaming gear differental on most of their problems as a fresh 50.

 

Having all the gear in the world doesnt mean anything if your on a team with bad players, it just simply gives you an advantage over a fresh 50. After that it balances itself out. I can have a bad game being fully PVP geared just as I can being a fresh 50.

[Culdor]

Soon as you hit 50 you should be getting 3-4 pieces of centurion, for a quick burst of expertise. With the daily token hilt added to an orange weapon and a few mods from the dailies you should have started, plus maybe an expertise mod from one of the sub-50 pvp weapons, your weapon is almost as good as a centurion weapon so do not waste valuable tokens on it.

 

Two dailies and two weeklys you can do the first day, plus bags you can purchase with tokens you earn doing the wz daily/weekly, can easily have you in 6-8 pieces of centurion in the first couple days.

 

Does it suck to go from being the top of the pack in the sub-50 bracket to the lowbie, sure it does, but it's not like you cant get to competitive fairly soon and in the mean time adjust your play style and spec to fit your low gear, ie go defensive until your offense can pick back up again.

 

No one expects to go from fresh 50 to nightmare 16 man, so why have an expectation that you should be instantly competing with top geared folks in PvP? Ideally the game wouldn't be a gear progression model, but it is and if you have PvE as a gear progression model, then PvP will follow the same path.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Culdor

[CauldronBorn]

I like how this thread was derailed by page 2. Probably at least half of the responses are: "You should've saved commendations for bags." which shows they a) didn't read the original post or b)have few, if any, reading comprehension skills.

 

I will recap the post for you now:

OP has a champion geared marauder. Rips faces off with it. Decides to roll an Operative and gear it out in the best 'fresh' 50 gear you can get as an experiment concerning Expertise. Experiment shows damage received vs damage dealt ratio is badly skewed with Expertise in the mix. OP concludes by saying something needs to be done to fix this disparity.

/end recap

 

BioWare is working on fixes(bandaids?) though. Such as an introductory PvP set. In addition, ranked WZs should hopefully removed the Best-in-Class geared players/groups from random assignment pools. Which will hopefully help since those trying to gear up won't simply get 3-shot.

[L-RANDLE]

Oranges with blue/purple lvl 50/51 mods/enhan/hilts/barrel makes you feasible in a 50 warzone

 

CASE 1: "THE PART TIME PvPer"

Buy a set of Moddable LVL 40 PvP set. Buy some 50/51 stuff at the AH, put into that orange set, should have a few bags.... buy a few cent pieces to cover yours defeciencies......>>>>>> instanly become feasible to centurion (or better in some cases). That means you don't even have to buy cent gear unless you need (their mods)to fill slots with purples (lvl 51 mod), and saving all your Champs for unmoddable items. Buy PvP pieces that don't have mods to give some expertise (ear, Belt, etc)

 

CASE 2:"THE FULL TIME PvPer"

If you PvP exclusively, then getting cent pieces should be a non-issue since you been PvPing the whole time, and should have a stockpile of comms. Cent gear is ok in WZ, if you don't want to raids or do dailies (Da.... it I ws trying not to mention PvE) and you get the added bonus *ta-da* Champ comms while your doing it.

 

 

To the OP:

Expertise is Bantha Poo-Doo. Please check your "PVP boost" due to expertise before you say its "depressing". YOU NEVER SAID WHAT GEAR YOU WERE IN AS A NEW, REROLLED 50. Just "it was as best as I could get" Was it moddable? Crit'd? Lvl 50 or 51 Purples? We all know Greens/Blue at 50 are Bantha poo-doo as well (in most cases)....

 

A 10% decrease in willpower does not equal a 10% increase in expertise, so how does a 50% WP decrease equal 10% expertise increase. Screw "dimishing returns" argument, moving my champ mods/enha, to my orange gear (51/56/56) has given me a decided HP/DMG advantage over fully(or close to) Champ. So in essance, PvP gear is already nerfed more than people even realize....

 

To the nerf supporters:

If you nerf expertise, my advanatge will grow, not diminish. Above shows that the mods/enh in the sets are worth more than the actual sets (bonus exluded/are set bonus really worth it?). The ONLY way to get it to work is to:

 

1. Introduce a new lvl 50 armor in line with the rest.

2. Increase expertise ratings to make it on par with PvE equivelent or increase bag comms.

3. Lock all PvP mod (armor/mod/enha) slots.

Edited March 6, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[L-RANDLE]

I like how this thread was derailed by page 2. Probably at least half of the responses are: "You should've saved commendations for bags." which shows they a) didn't read the original post or b)have few, if any, reading comprehension skills.

 

I will recap the post for you now:

OP has a champion geared marauder. Rips faces off with it. Decides to roll an Operative and gear it out in the best 'fresh' 50 gear you can get as an experiment concerning Expertise. Experiment shows damage received vs damage dealt ratio is badly skewed with Expertise in the mix. OP concludes by saying something needs to be done to fix this disparity.

/end recap

 

BioWare is working on fixes(bandaids?) though. Such as an introductory PvP set. In addition, ranked WZs should hopefully removed the Best-in-Class geared players/groups from random assignment pools. Which will hopefully help since those trying to gear up won't simply get 3-shot.

 

Expertise don't mean bantha poo doo..... the mods of those PvP sets is why the faceroll is happening, the OP should have a problem, with PvE/Crafting more than expertise....

 

[EDIT]typo

Edited March 5, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[CauldronBorn]

Expertise don't mean bantha poo doo..... the mods of those PvP sets is why the faceroll is happening, the OP should have a problem, with PvE/Crafting more than expertise....

 

[EDIT]typo

 

I beg to differ. Even in the 10-49 bracket, where Bolster normalizes skill effects and gear stats across levels, the 15% Expertise power-ups and stims make a HUGE difference in damage received and dealt.

 

The stock mods for PvP gear are actually pretty bad. The mod and enhancements usually contain Accuracy which is redundant unless you plan on killing tanks efficiently with weapon damage.

 

Expertise acting as a flat multiplicative modifier of damage, dealt and received, and healing can make a very noticeable difference. Remember, since most modifiers work off of multipliers instead of additives, it doesn't take a large difference to generate a large change.

[Vember]

If you've PvP'ed way more than someone else you should have something to show for it.

 

Not free wins. No true pvper wants a game where gear completely dictates the outcome of a fight. The OP is spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Rift made this same mistake in a big way, but it seems that, despite their claims, the BW devs really weren't paying attention to the failures done by their competitors.

 

And I don't know about other servers, but getting my second 50 up only two weeks ago, as republic on Rakata Mind Prison, getting comms is mind numbingly slow...we get stomped so bad in primetime that you might get 24-40 comms per warzone...that makes completing dailies and gearing to cross the gap incredibly painful. 1.2 needs to be here now, rather than later.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Vember

[xxdragonragexx]

Not free wins. No true pvper wants a game where gear completely dictates the outcome of a fight. The OP is spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Rift made this same mistake in a big way, but it seems that, despite their claims, the BW devs really weren't paying attention to the failures done by their competitors.

 

And I don't know about other servers, but getting my second 50 up only two weeks ago, as republic on Rakata Mind Prison, getting comms is mind numbingly slow...we get stomped so bad in primetime that you might get 24-40 comms per warzone...that makes completing dailies and gearing to cross the gap incredibly painful. 1.2 needs to be here now, rather than later.

 

You do know that this is a pve game, right?

[maticlandarr]

I heard santa clause exists too.

 

I heard that people born after those faggoty tim allen movies were made never learned how to spell santa claus.

[glenbruton]

level 50 gear gap is zomgwtfbbq for anyone entering it. They do need to either fix the gap or mix like with like in matches. Sure a person can join and grind through the pain to get some gear BUT first they have to deal with all the pain AND the fact they are transmitting that pain onto their poor team!

[L-RANDLE]

I beg to differ. Even in the 10-49 bracket, where Bolster normalizes skill effects and gear stats across levels, the 15% Expertise power-ups and stims make a HUGE difference in damage received and dealt.

 

The stock mods for PvP gear are actually pretty bad. The mod and enhancements usually contain Accuracy which is redundant unless you plan on killing tanks efficiently with weapon damage.

 

Expertise acting as a flat multiplicative modifier of damage, dealt and received, and healing can make a very noticeable difference. Remember, since most modifiers work off of multipliers instead of additives, it doesn't take a large difference to generate a large change.

 

So since I have 3.41% exp in lvl 50 bracket, I'm getting facerolled [/sarcasm]

 

There is no instance where expertise acts to outpace ANY stat subtraction... like i said before, regardless of bracket, if you increase your expertise by 10%, you nerfed your overall stats by 13% or more. Expertise is not a "power-up" (unless your PvP exlcusively), its nerfed PvE gear stat.

 

Go look at your stats, and not use the eyeball test. Let's use my main stat Willpower..

 

+1EXP(~+.026%) don't = -1WP(~-.23%). (EXP gains would need to outpace my main stat 9:1)

 

Go look at the change in bonus damage, as this is a REAL trade off you make when you use ANY PvP armor, and this doesn't account for the other nerfs in END/POWER/AIM/STRE and that is just on 1(!) piece..... A ton of stuff that affects your BURST... BTW, what if you have the same exp level..... Exp, in that case, is like two people hitting each other with noodles.... Then, you got me, with my two Columi and "stolen" Champ mods....You still got the noodle, I got a hammer. Expertise is to make the match "last longer" (i.e. more competitive).

 

What PvP gear are you looking at? Are you talking about cent/champ/BM vendors?....NONE of the mods/enh I "hijacked" have useless stats llike accuracy (I'm force damage dealer). The PvP CHAMP/CENT/BM light armor vendor has sets like force mystic/force master, and those mods are END/WP/SURGE/CRIT/POWER/CRITY, all the things my character uses. EXPERTISE IS ONLY ATTACHED TO THE ARMOR MOD. The secondary stats on that armor mod are nerfed, when compared to a LVL51 purple from dailies (at least on champ and cent gear). This is why I have removed them I am a step above Champ gear, and damn close to columi on those pieces.

 

 

If you think the mods/enh are no good, but where else you can get LVL 56/58 mods from besides raiding? Trust me... buy some orange stuff get a lvl 51 purple armor mod, and take your Cent/Champ mods/enh and put them in that orange, get cent/champ belts/bracer/ear/implants and you will really see a difference....With that in mind, new 50's should be able to get lvl 51 purples and be feasible in lvl 50 PvP, as that config will have them slightly ahead of cent geared players. All of which has no expertise attached. So back to my main point to the OP quit complaining about expertise, its not why there is a gap..... Complain to BW that there are no crafted/vendor lvl 51 purples, unless you "grind" PvE or PvP..

 

 

TL; DR: Expertise don't mean poo-doo, it's the mods/enhancements in PvP gear. New lvl 50's need to get better mods, and stop thinking expertise is why they are "helpless" in lvl 50 PvP..

Edited March 6, 2012 by L-RANDLE