In defense of Malavi Quinn *Spoilers*

[Lotharofxev]

The Warriors in my guild have come to a joint conclusion - they'd be willing to kill Quinn, (Shooting him out of an airlock seems to be the consensus), even if it meant the permanent loss of a companion. One is LS, one is DS.

 

Treachery is treachery. Betrayal is betrayal.

[ThirdDementor]

I think Quinn's betrayal is not his fault, but not because Baras manipulated him or anything. I just think it was forced and poorly written, because it doesn't have an ounce of logic. Quinn's greatest defining characteristic is his fierce and infinite loyalty to the Empire. Journeying with the Sith Warrior, Quinn learns that Baras is not the real Voice, while the Warrior is the legitimate Wrath. Quinn's betrayal just doesn't make any sense. The most loyal Imperial in the game (and quite arguably in the Star Wars universe in general), choosing a usurper over the real Emperor, because "he owes Baras one"? That's just not Quinn. He would never do that. The whole betrayal is completely out of character. It's like if Vette would suddenly approve of the slaughter of innocents. Edited June 11, 2014 by ThirdDementor

[redhoodrider]

Baras was a cunning villain, it makes sense that he would be able to manipulate someone as impressionable as Malvai Quinn. I forgave Malvai, though I made it clear he would have to earn my trust back. Hell, there was a time when Baras came close to manipulating me, it would be hypocritical for me to criticize Malvai for falling for his deceit when I almost did.

[Lotharofxev]

I think Quinn's betrayal is not his fault, but not because Baras manipulated him or anything. I just think it was forced and poorly written, because it doesn't have an ounce of logic. Quinn's greatest defining characteristic is his fierce and infinite loyalty to the Empire. Journeying with the Sith Warrior, Quinn learns that Baras is not the real Voice, while the Warrior is the legitimate Wrath. Quinn's betrayal just doesn't make any sense. The most loyal Imperial in the game (and quite arguably in the Star Wars universe in general), choosing a usurper over the real Emperor, because "he owes Baras one"? That's just not Quinn. He would never do that. The whole betrayal is completely out of character. It's like if Vette would suddenly approve of the slaughter of innocents.

 

Well said.

[NightEngine]

I turned Quinn into a droid. I got a bunch of cybernetic shells for him. To my mind, there was more abuse leveled at him as punishment than what we saw and now, while he's still Quinn, he's an automaton.

 

Betray Darth Rubric and he won't simply kill you; he'll take you apart, rebuild you, and enslave you.

Edited June 18, 2014 by NightEngine

[Arlanon]

Awwww yeah! THAT WAS AWESOME!!

 

----------------------------------------------

Edited June 23, 2014 by Arlanon

[Oneirophrenia]

Meh, I never really understood why so many people despised Quinn for his betrayal. Let's be honest here, what Quinn did is probably what most people would do in reality. Loyalties can shift rapidly based on circumstance and most people are not immune to this rule.

 

The fact is, at the time of Quinn's betrayal he really hasn't been attached to the player for very long. In contrast, he has served Baras for far longer and this is not to mention he also owed Baras a rather significant debt for saving his faltering career. Combined with that fact that Quinn is bound by a somewhat rigid "duty first" honor code, it is perfectly logical for him to do Bara's biddings. As a general rule, people like that do not like owing debts and are honor bound to repay it. Being embedded with the player as a mole was the perfect opportunity to accomplish just that. Consequently, Quinn's post-betrayal decision to turn against Baras to serve the player instead was also influenced by that very honor code as Baras was proven to be a questionable master and potential threat to the Empire.

 

Still, I do wish BW had added some dialogue options to reflect the player keeping Quinn on a shorter leash or even punishment options (such as demoting Quinn to be Vette's subordinate for a month) immediately following the betrayal.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[chillshock]

I am a Sith.

I have a minion who betrays me (whatever the reason).

...

I let him... continue as the 'first officer' of my ship? WHAT THE?

 

I hate Quinn for not being able to demote him to scrub the floor in treeks and broonmarks room for the rest of the jouney! (I do dislike a thorough brownnoser and bootlicker... but my character is a sith lord, so I guess that goes with the job).

 

I've found a good solution for the problem:

Whats left of Quinn and it wasn't even expensive.

[Thaladan]

what a shame that we can't kill this traitor

 

i would find this story very nice IF we can kill this sh*t, no problem to have one companion less.

 

i put him in the space ship hold, next to the toilets

[chillshock]

But he does make a fine robot.

[thewitchdoctor]

In contrast, he has served Baras for far longer and this is not to mention he also owed Baras a rather significant debt for saving his faltering career.

 

Your point is perfectly valid. However ...

 

I don't think the issue is really with the betrayal. The issue is that my Dark side Sith cannot kill this person who betrayed her. The game has allowed me to, if not rewarded me for, indiscriminently killing people. Yet this person, who betrays me, I have to let live?

 

Up until some point that I no longer recall before launch we were able to kill companions. Quinn's betrayal fits fine within that game mechanic framework. But when Bioware removed the ability to kill a companion, they should have altered Quinn's story. Because it no longer makes sense for a Dark side Sith.

[thewitchdoctor]

But he does make a fine robot.

 

Amen!

 

And until I can carbon freeze him as a decoration, he will stay in his cybernetic suit that covers up his hideous disfigurement.

[Oneirophrenia]

I don't think the issue is really with the betrayal. The issue is that my Dark side Sith cannot kill this person who betrayed her. The game has allowed me to, if not rewarded me for, indiscriminently killing people. Yet this person, who betrays me, I have to let live?

 

Up until some point that I no longer recall before launch we were able to kill companions. Quinn's betrayal fits fine within that game mechanic framework. But when Bioware removed the ability to kill a companion, they should have altered Quinn's story. Because it no longer makes sense for a Dark side Sith.

 

I guess it depends on your perspective. Yes on one hand it would be logical for a dark side SW to choose to kill Quinn for his betrayal but is that really the smartest action to take? In my (pragmatist) opinion, no. I would think it's far more valuable to keep Quinn alive since he has intimate knowledge of Baras' plans as well as his organizational structure. The dead can not reveal secrets after all and in the grand scheme, Quinn is but a minor nuisance when compared to the significant threat Baras still posed at the time. In fact, leaving Quinn alive actually fits into the rest of the Chapter 3 storyline which involves the player tiptoeing across the galaxy taking subtle and indirect actions against Baras in order to errode his power base enough for a final direct confrontation. Quinn simply serves as another cog in that master plan. I guess what I'm saying is that being dark side doesn't necessarily translate to being impulsive or incapable of making cunning, manipulative long-term decisions despite the simplistic TOR portrayal of "mindless evil". Though, I will admit that the dialogue options should have been better written in order to convey the above train of thought.

 

As for companion killing, yeah it was allowed back in beta and a lot of players had fun with that. Then came the obligatory ticket requests to revive a companion because "I didn't really mean to kill him/her" or "I didn't know it was permanent". Removing the ability to kill companions is a logistical decision and probably a good one at that.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[chillshock]

While it was bad to kill him permanently.... it would not have been, if there was a replacement for him. MAYBE even a nice sith healer companion... you know, a sorc heal/dd... just saying.

 

Right now I'm happy with having tortured him until he is nothing more than a cyborg with some memory stuff transfered. I pretend I have the 'off-button' in my pocket.

 

I'd love for them to bring in "tradable and exchangeable companions, once all companion-unlocks are reached".

[DomiSotto]

I think Quinn is one of the most interesting and alive companions in the bunch. He is certainly not boring and not a one trick pony. Now, his romance is awkward, and nothing will make me believe that it was not originally intended for a male PC. That would have been very nice. Quinn definitely grew on me as I played through the story. And I do not feel bad about keeping him after the fact. A broken man is a perfect tool for a DS Sith, and for my LS is all about second chances.

[DalekTheCat]

But he does make a fine robot.

 

LOL

 

I slapped a shock collar on him and left him to rot with a rakghoul infection: http://i.imgur.com/Vvz9sKj.jpg

 

What I think annoyed me more than the fact of his betrayal was the sloppy way the incident was subsequently handled in the story. His very next conversation with me was to ask for a letter of recommendation for his promotion, and I was like, dude, you cannot be serious. We can sit here and invent excuses all day but that doesn't change the fact that the storytelling within the game turned out really sloppy.

 

I did like the conversation with Pierce though, where you have the option to tell him it's his job to keep an eye on Quinn for you. He basically becomes your first officer over Quinn but without the actual promotion or increased pay. I suppose you could throw more gifts at him to compensate for Imperial cheapness if workers' rights are your Sith's thing.

[Dras_Keto]

Someone once told me the only reasonable defense for Malavi Quinn:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Remianen]

The dead can not reveal secrets after all

 

My Sorceror would disagree with you on this. Wholeheartedly.

 

The point of my saying that (and pointing it out) is that what you state is wrong within the context of the game's stories. You're using a real life cliché to illustrate an ingame notion. The dead can do whatever the heck the writers say they can. Quinn could've been killed and reanimated or had his consciousness transferred into a droid body (as someone here has done) or any number of things. And then you have the absurdity that Dalek pointed out where the very next conversation, he's asking you to do him a favor. SAY WHAT?

 

The fact remains, he betrayed the SW and was allowed to live without repercussion, without regard for the player's desires. In the context of a game built on decisions having an impact, that's bad writing. You can hand wave it any number of different ways, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a glaring sore spot in what was a pretty good class story (all things considered).

[chillshock]

The fact remains, he betrayed the SW and was allowed to live without repercussion, without regard for the player's desires. In the context of a game built on decisions having an impact, that's bad writing. You can hand wave it any number of different ways, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a glaring sore spot in what was a pretty good class story (all things considered).

 

Very well said. This is kindof a bummer like that "makeb starts before the class mission is finished" thing. Well, acutally it's not quite as bad, but it's a whole different level:

Having the players chose on every conversation and those choices hardly ever making any(if any) difference at all... THAT is a sorespot. Still - it's an awesome game compared to the leveling of... i.e. Warcraft... "Yeah yeah... kingslayer... blabla giant dragon... bla firegod... here's your quest: steal 40 dirty diapers from murlocs and bring them to me".

Edited August 6, 2014 by chillshock

[Oneirophrenia]

My Sorceror would disagree with you on this. Wholeheartedly.

 

The point of my saying that (and pointing it out) is that what you state is wrong within the context of the game's stories. You're using a real life cliché to illustrate an ingame notion. The dead can do whatever the heck the writers say they can. Quinn could've been killed and reanimated or had his consciousness transferred into a droid body (as someone here has done) or any number of things. And then you have the absurdity that Dalek pointed out where the very next conversation, he's asking you to do him a favor. SAY WHAT?

 

If the SW kills Quinn only to reanimate him later, what would be the point of killing him in the first place? Just for the sake of "dude, you betrayed me so now I get to lop off your head to feel better"? That's bad writing too as such predictable, petty, petulant and impulsive behavior would be far beneath the central character whose role is to be the Emperor's Wrath with greater designs on his/her mind.

 

The fact remains, he betrayed the SW and was allowed to live without repercussion, without regard for the player's desires. In the context of a game built on decisions having an impact, that's bad writing. You can hand wave it any number of different ways, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a glaring sore spot in what was a pretty good class story (all things considered).

 

I never disputed that the writers dropped the ball when it comes to the aftermath of the betrayal so I'm uncertain as to why you are harping on that point. In fact, I quite plainly acknowledged the writer's oversight in the final sentence of my first post as well as the end of the first paragraph in my second post. I simply pointed out several thought processes which could logically explain away why Quinn wasn't killed outright following his betrayal. In other words, slaughtering Quinn and hacking him to pieces to vent the "OMGZ IZ BEEN BETRAYED" rage isn't the only method worth exploring. That crude response is actually more indicative of someone who is in serious need of being committed for anger management issues and *I* certainly did not play my SW (DS or LS) in that uncouth fashion.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Adovir]

In beta you had the option to kill him. The amount of people who chose to kill him then found them selves kicking and hating them selves for killing off their healer companion for good was so much that BW removed the option

[Fdzzaigl]

I understood why he did it, even though it came as a bit of a surprise at the time: just before that mission I had helped him defy his former superior, the moff etc. So it was kind of weird to see him stuck in the same loop of mindless obedience again, moments after that.

 

Still the whole scene was very satisfying, the other stories I've played were lacking in terms of betrayal etc. by companions. I do think they were originally planning to let you kill him, as I remember there being talk about killing companions pre-launch. The warrior's story was also one of the first they made. Later on they changed their minds about that.

 

Instead of just choking him, I think they should have let you do something more evil though. Like corrupting him with your dark influence or somesuch to become a mindless slave (a bit like Nihilus does).

[Zyrious]

Killing quinn is not "irrational" or "insane". Our class is based on the Darth Vader archetype and he has killed his right hand men for far less. Killing quinn removes a problem and sends a message to the rest of the crew that betrayel is not forgiven, and if you fail to kill me you will die a horrible, painful death. Keeping him alive also makes you look weak to other Sith. He has commited a betrayel of the highest order and the only response in the Sith Empire is execution. It's fine that he betrayed us, it isn't fine that he gets to live after failing.

 

For those wondering why the writing is "off" for this scene - it's because he was killable originally. Then when that was cut, you could still "semi-kill" him and have him frozen in carbonite. Then when that was cut, it just became a jumbled mess. The fact of the matter is, and i brought this up in beta, they should have just let you kill him and replace him with a new, generic companion "assigned" to you after quinn's death. Same stats, but different person. Just make it clear during the scene that you will kill him permanently story wise, but that you will be assigned a replacement, and all is well.

 

Why they did not do that i will never know.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Zyrious

[DomiSotto]

Or why they did not restore the cut content now when Treek is readily available.I do like Malavai, but I would take this option on a DS Female Warrior. Edited September 3, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Alexitera]

I hope they expand on the Quinn romance. There is just not enough time to process the betrayal before you stop having conversations. SW was my first(and maybe only after that) Empire side character. It was the most I have ever gotten emotions involved in the game. I have tried to play it dark and that even went against the grain for me but I have managed to be more dark than light. Honestly I started the SW because I liked the way the Quinn companion looked. And yes that voice is like silk and I was so angry at the betrayal that I distanced my character from him for a few days but now I miss him and there is just the impersonal companion left. The romance gave the character so much depth so why not extend the story as in real life you do not just end things so suddenly. Usually your first reaction would be anger and hate maybe but when feelings are involved you can work past them. It is the best storyline so far and I have played all the characters on the republic side and never gotten that involved with the romances, but when you do you just can't go and replace a romance with another. I do think that is the most brilliant story though because things like that do happen and it really grabs you. I want Quinn back in conversations and I would not want to kill him off and replace him. I have to admit I got way too attached to a toon ...lol. but the betrayal really even gets you more involved.