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In defense of Malavi Quinn *Spoilers*

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gibmachine

gibmachine

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You're tripping. He often points out flaws in the plan and even suggests the course of action that you are pondering is wrong. Just because he acknowledges you as his superior does not make him an *** kisser...no more than Alfred is an *** kisser in the Batman comics. Plus, he is a military officer...he shouldn't be openly insubordinate. Ask anyone you know in the military what happens to people who openly defy their superiors. I'm guessing this is doubly so if your superior is a powerful sith.

 

So assuming he fails (which he did) Baras executes him as a price for failure (which he himself acknowledges).

 

Yet my character who threw a boulder at a group of miners when the didn't need them anymore, Emperor's Wrath, personal executioner for the most powerful being in the galaxy, can't do the same to someone of his own personal crew who went behind his back and tried to kill him?

Edited by gibmachine
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Gaspoda

Gaspoda

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OK, I understand people are upset that they can't punish Quinn appropriately for his betrayal. I don't want to kill him, oh no... that'd be too easy. Torture, shock collar, all good options.

 

But, if you actually read those posts, you'd know, a good portion of people are genuinely pissed that Quinn actually betrayed them, and add to that they can't vent their anger by killing the dude... thus the endless "why can't I kill quinn" rant.

 

Like I said before in those posts (and often get ignored), You're a freaking Sith, betraying people and being schemed by people is an occupational hazard. That's what you sign up on when you first becoming a sith. I never for one second believe Baras will keep me around unless I'm useful to him. When I saw Baras is a level 50 boss when I first met him on Koroban, I thought "So I get to fight him at the end of the game".

 

And if you actually pay attention to Quinn's conversation and what he likes, you'd know his loyalty lies with the Empire, never to you personally. If I have to put him into AD&D alignment, he's strictly Lawful Evil.

 

But I am a bit disappointed that the game won't allow me to scheme against Baras... That'd be fun, and more inclined with the Sith tradition.

 

Of course, anyone can betray my Sith warrior, I don't mind. But those, who fail, WILL pay the price. He's the only one who plotted behind my back, tried to kill me and lived to tell the tale. And that's unforgivable.

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Achraya

Achraya

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Personally I like Quinn. I romanced the guy and was delighted the whole time (He gives Corso a serious run for his money in the favorite companion department) but I understand why those who went darkside (which I did) are angry they couldn't do something more than throw him around. You embrace the dark side, are the Emperor's Wrath for goodness sake, and you can't your companion? Nonsense.

 

 

Having said that I found it was easy to forgive Quinn. He was being Quinn, a military man with a sense of loyalty that eclipses even what he wants to do on a personal level. He doesn't want to betray the warrior (and in some cases even loves the warrior) but his sense of duty and honor (If not for Baras he wouldn't even know the warrior; instead he'd be rotting on some backwater planet contemplating suicide.) demands that he do so. And, once he fails, his debt to Baras is fulfilled and he's ready to stand by your side and kick that fatty in the face. I can't be mad at a man who stands before you, looks you in the eyes, and explains his motives then gives you a chance to defend yourself. He could have poisoned your food or shot you point blank in your sleep but he doesn't, he confronts you on (more or less) equal footing.

 

As for his personality, I think he's adorable, but I'm a sucker for dorky military men.

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Deadborder

Deadborder

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Yeah, Quinn is by far and away my favourtest companion in the whole game so far. Romanced him on my Marauader, never even gave Pierce a second look (and hey, he's a Jerk anyways...) and I just love him as a character. So unflappably polite and nice (the sequence on Taris when you're trying to hack the doors to the fallout shelter is awesome) and so cute and embarrassed when you flirt with him (doesn't help that the female SW is such an aggressive flirt). Hell, he's one of only three companions in the whole game (that I've seen so far, so disclaimers apply) who I genuinely care about.

 

So yeah, it hurt when he betrayed me. But, at the same time, I understood fully why; he was in Baras' debt, and was forced to do what he did. Was my Marauder angry? You bet. Did she forgive him? Yes, yes she did. In fact, she was back to the aggressive flirting as soon as the option was there (and, yes, I suspect a lot of make-up sex as well). When you look at it, Quinn didn't have a choice; he was in Baras' debt, and his hand was forced. You can hear it in his voice too, the obvious regret at his actions and being forced to do what he is.

 

'sides, he's cute.

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Paradoxlogos

Paradoxlogos

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I think I was more insulted by his method of betrayal than the betrayal itself. He's all, there is a 1% chance (or something insanely low like that) you will be able to beat my droids. Then his droids were a freaking pushover. ****, I can get over the betrayal, but that he thought I was that weak? He deserves to die for underestimating me like he did, pathetic little worm. If you're going to screw me, at least do it right. Don't insult the power of the Sith.
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imnotawitch

imnotawitch

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I do agree that I see more people who are madder at the fact that they can't punish Quinn than his general personality. Do people who don't like his personality exist? Yes. Do they have valid points? Also yes. But I'd say they're more of a minority. Now, my SW personally wouldn't kill Quinn, but I think that it should be an option.

 

(In fact, 30% of my hatred of my most hated Bioware character ever (from DA2) comes from the fact that there is no way for you to kill her. (50% comes from her actions, and 20% from an unfortunate coincidence. I'll leave the topic before I start rambling about kill-stealing ninja-archers and my cat.))

 

That being said, I think that if there was an option to kill Quinn he'd be more in the Baras area of dislike, in that people might not like him but they like his character. (Not true for everyone, of course.)

 

I think I made a point in that. 3 AM does weird things to my brain.

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Ster-Ling

Ster-Ling

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Quinn's personality is fine. You can like it or not like it, but it is what it is.

 

His betrayal is fine. I expected it just as I expected Baras to betray me. In fact I knew it was imminent the moment I killed his master and provided him with a replacement apprentice.

 

And I knew that Quinn would be a roadblock to destroying my master the moment he signed on with my crew. Always understood that he was a plant.

 

So yes, of course he was going to betray me. I expect everyone to betray me. Jaesa too, I especially have my eye on her. What idiot sith lord wouldn't? Sure, she goes on and on about how much she LOVES me and would NEVER betray me, but I'm way, way better at this game than she realizes.

 

So yes, the Quinn betrayal is acceptable. Fun and exciting, even.

 

What's unacceptable is that I have to let him live. I'd honestly rather have four companions and no healer now than to see Quinn alive on my bridge.

 

Pretty disappointed with this bit of writing from Bioware. Surely they could have come up with some better way to either a) compel me to spare him, or b) replace him with an experimental clone-cyborg Quinn. Or something.

 

Anything but "we'll see if you can earn my trust again."

 

I mean, because nobody earns my trust. Ever. They serve me until they don't.

 

And then they die.

 

Oh, but I've been playing my character ALL WRONG up until now.

 

Yeah.

 

Bioware, I am disappoint.

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gibmachine

gibmachine

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Quinn's personality is fine. You can like it or not like it, but it is what it is.

 

His betrayal is fine. I expected it just as I expected Baras to betray me. In fact I knew it was imminent the moment I killed his master and provided him with a replacement apprentice.

 

And I knew that Quinn would be a roadblock to destroying my master the moment he signed on with my crew. Always understood that he was a plant.

 

So yes, of course he was going to betray me. I expect everyone to betray me. Jaesa too, I especially have my eye on her. What idiot sith lord wouldn't? Sure, she goes on and on about how much she LOVES me and would NEVER betray me, but I'm way, way better at this game than she realizes.

 

So yes, the Quinn betrayal is acceptable. Fun and exciting, even.

 

What's unacceptable is that I have to let him live. I'd honestly rather have four companions and no healer now than to see Quinn alive on my bridge.

 

Pretty disappointed with this bit of writing from Bioware. Surely they could have come up with some better way to either a) compel me to spare him, or b) replace him with an experimental clone-cyborg Quinn. Or something.

 

Anything but "we'll see if you can earn my trust again."

 

I mean, because nobody earns my trust. Ever. They serve me until they don't.

 

And then they die.

 

Oh, but I've been playing my character ALL WRONG up until now.

 

Yeah.

 

Bioware, I am disappoint.

 

Regarding his personality, I'd even get pass by the uptight boy scout demeanor he has going on if it wasn't for his NONSTOP WHINING ABOUT EVERYTHING. I mean ****, the guy openly disregards my entire crew as incompetent. Well guess what, if they were incompetent, I wouldn't have them on my ship, now shut up or I'll introduce your face to the wall... or wait, I can't cause the incredible writing railroaded me into sparing your miserable life only to hear you whine some more about how my crew choice is lacking.

 

Seriously, I even stopped hoping for devs letting me kill him cause that's not gonna happen ever. But if they only let me fit him with Vette's collar so that every dialogue option with him included something along the lines of "I didn't ask for your input slave. [shock Quinn]" I'd piss my pants out of happiness.

 

You betrayed me? Well too bad that you failed, enjoy the consequences. Maye one day I'll find shocking your sorry *** not so fun anymore. Until then you're gonna **** yourself in my presence slave.

 

Yeah, too bad the game makes the choice for me. You know, the game where I'm supposed to role-play my character the way I want. Guess they either wanted people to be maniac butchers or goodie goodies with no "punishment" option inbetween.

Edited by gibmachine
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Baz_Kahuna

Baz_Kahuna

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So, you all hate Quinn for being manipulated and coerced by the same Dark Lord that MANIPULATED YOU for 3/4 of your story? The same guy who had you running around the galaxy doing his dirty work, while all the while having you convinced that you were his most trusted apprentice before he tried to have you killed? :rolleyes:

 

This is a really good point, didn't really consider this. Puts it in perspective.

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Exartess

Exartess

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Dear BioWare,

 

Quinn's betrayal is a game breaker for me.

 

In this story arc I am Sith and as such am an idealist. Anything or anyone not standing up to the Empire's high standards of perfection and efficiency is purged. On my way to Dark V I have killed incompetent Imperials for the most trifling of mistakes. So why would I spare Quinn for the penultimate of mistakes?!?! The answer is I WOULD NOT and as far as I'm concerned he is a walking corpse.

 

As a Marauder I need heals so I would respectfully request that BioWare please add to the Sith Warrior story line by letting us have a replacement healer if we so choose. The successful candidate must heal at least as well as that rat bastard, Quinn, or better.

 

or

 

Please let me take Quinn to Darth Grathan's estate on Dromund Kaas and rip him from his organic shell and turn him into a medical droid. It would improve morale on my ship and restore my general good feelings about the Sith Warrior story arc.

 

or

 

Let me put Vette's slave collar on him and shock him whenever I want. This would be the most expensive route for BioWare as that they would have to bring the voice actor back to record all the necessary begging, pleading, and requests for me to end his suffering.

 

or

 

Let me put him out the airlock of the Fury. This option is the least desired because it would be far to quick and painless for Quinn and would leave me without a healer.

 

 

The point is, the current Sith Warrior story line ruined Quinn for those of us who can't stomach betrayal. There is no way to rationalize Quinn's continued oxygen consumption as that he betrayed the Emperor's Wrath. Is 'Wrath' a word that implies mercy???

 

Sack Quinn now! Thanks and have a great day.

Edited by Exartess
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gibmachine

gibmachine

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Posted
This is a really good point, didn't really consider this. Puts it in perspective.

 

It isn't a good point cause once I leanred about Baras's true intention towards me, I began slow and painful revenge on his sorry ***. But with Quinn? Some choking and "we're good". That's it.

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Limitsky

Limitsky

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Posted (edited)
When I first met Darth Fatas, I knew 1 of 2 things would happen, either he would betray me, or we would go to the pizza hut lunch buffet

 

Darth Baras adopts the Sith Warrior as his legitimant son. Much laughs are to be had. Bioware can now use that as an alternante to the current Act 2

 

Anyway I don't mind Quinn and his actions for the same reason I don't mind not having constant "Punch Khem in his jaw for threatening you" or "Throw large rock at Boss, end quest" options. There's only so much you can do without having people complain at you (I once read in another thread on this topic that you -could- originally do away with him or something)

 

I just hold on to my theory that Quinn was killed off screen and the warrior stacks two Jawa's up in a "Quinn Disguise" for lols.

Edited by Limitsky
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Dracunculus

Dracunculus

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Yeah, I have to say, I really have a problem with the Quinn betrayal.

 

Not that he does it -- although I would be happier if affection were taken into account, and a Quinn with maxed approval would back down at the last moment. That would be a nice way of making the player's actions and choices matter. But at the VERY LEAST, a Quinn who is MARRIED to the SW should exhibit some genuine remorse and anguish. (NOT "Kinda regret this, lolz, but u die now." More along the lines of "I cannot change what I am, but I want you to know that a piece of me will die with you today." Something heartfelt.

 

And there should be more of a resolution afterwards.

 

My SW is only level 41 and the betrayal hasn't happened yet, but I've watched videos. Honestly, I haven't played SWTOR for a week, since I discovered what was going to happen. It may sound silly, but I am seriously considering dropping my subscription at this point, and not coming back until the Quinn romance gets sorted out. What's the point in continuing my story progression if it's just going to end with my *husband* shrugging off our entire relationship? I know the SW is evil and all, but my epic Sith passion deserves better.

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futuredami

futuredami

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I hate people for what they -are- not what they -do-

 

I would much prefer to smash Vette in the face over and over for being an irritating insubordinate imbecile. Quinn is not only useful, but his motivations and persona make sense. Vette on the other hand has no redeemable feature. There is literally nothing to like about Vette. The fact that she sounds like Urkel is even more cause to hate her.

 

Betrayal I can live with. I cannot forgive someone for being a wretched person. Vette is seriously a rat of a person. She doesn't even have to common sense to shut up and keep her unfunny quips to herself when she is the disposable legal property of a very dangerous and unstable murderer.

 

Maybe she knows that the writers are protecting her from your wrath.

Edited by futuredami
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Dracunculus

Dracunculus

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The Malavai Quinn character is really well-written overall, which is I think why a lot of people even care about the betrayal scene at all.

 

But I do hope the devs consider tweaking that scene. The snottiness and lack of caring he displays toward the SW in that episode is *not* consistent with the rest of his character (at least not if you've pursued his approval storyline and/or romance). It's also pretty jarring that he's portrayed as such a terrible strategist in that scene (zero percent chance of failure? PLEASE), given that he's so smart and competent in the rest of the story.

 

Since that you can't kill him and that isn't going to change, I hope the writers would consider changing the scene so that fewer players are left *wanting* to kill him. Show him exhibiting some real internal conflict (and change Jaesa's dialogue so that she says something about sensing turmoil and pain within him, rather than nothing but confidence). Change the "zero percent chance of failure" line so that instead he says something like "Believe me, my lord, I am a strategist and I calculated other modes of attack with a higher reward to risk ratio. Poison, or sabotage, or even a shot to the head as you slept. But I felt I owed you this much: to look you in the eyes before you died, and explain myself."

 

Basically, bring his characterization during the betrayal scene more into line with the rest of his story arc. Right now it's really jarring and it doesn't work with the romance progression at *all*. The betrayal should come off as a cool twist with a big emotional payoff, not a scene that just leaves players fuming and ready to abandon their characters.

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