Is Revan overrated?

[Jurakan]

people just can't respect that your not a fanboy of their favorite characters and picked a character like revan's instead. Maybe we can't relate to a character as whiny as Anakin's or as deceitful as Palpatine. What is wrong with that ? Edited March 4, 2012 by Jurakan

[Aximand]

I read all of the old republic novels, and beat kotor 1 and 2 and are battlemaster here. I am sure I know a lot more than you do!

 

Okay, lets break this down.

 

 

He was so uber he could have a wife and babies with the councils approval while other jedi rolled over in envy because he was so strong they wanted to keep him on their side.

 

First off, what? Second off, what the ****?

 

There was no Jedi council when he and Bastila hooked up, the whole order was pretty much extinct (you know, the whole story line of KotOR 2), and marriage and having children was against the code anyway.

 

 

He also reshaped and galaxy as he saw fit which is more than I can say for half of your favorite characters who play their role and die without having acomplished anything whatsoever.

 

Er, no, no he didn't. You're trying to make it sound like he had the galaxy as his plaything. That's so far from the truth that I can't even begin to contemplate where you got that idea from. He was a puppet almost his entire adult life, first of Vitate, then of the Jedi Council and then of Vitate again.

 

 

He also held back the invasion of the emperor for 300 years and survived captivity.

 

Um, no, he actually didn't. The Emperor saw Revan and the Star Forge as a way to advance his plans three hundred years, Malak going rogue and ruining that plan (see? Revan didn't even cause it, it was Malak's thirst for power) didn't do a damn thing but make the Empire revert to their original time frame.

 

 

Since all of the sith impire gets flattened in the long run, and given the fact that the emperor (Vitiate) is killed by a crappy jedi, I have a feeling he had a lot to do with the destruction of the empire.

 

We actually don't know what happens with the Sith Empire, for all we know there could be an internal revolution that throws off the dominance of the Sith and joins up with the Republic. The fact that the current Dromund Kaas accent is considered a Coruscanti accent by the time Episodes 1-3 come around, this seems to be the most likely chain of events.

 

Also, spoilers for the Sith Warrior story below.

 

 

Vitate didn't die.

 

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aximand

[Jurakan]

Your whole argument is based on he was a puppet. He defied and took action against both the Jedi Council and The Emperor so whatever he did he did willingly, except serve the Emperor as a Sith Lord for a small while before he was betrayed by Malak and the small time he spent brainwashed by the Jedi Council.

 

You're right. We don't know what happens but if you read the novel you will see Scourge's vision of a Jedi other than Revan killing Vitiate became true. That's the entire reason why he betrayed Revan and Surik against Vitiate. If the game story will go according to the novel then the lightside story wins and that means REVAN LIVES. Deal with it.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Jurakan

[Aximand]

Your whole argument is based on he was a puppet. He defied and took action against both the Jedi Council and The Emperor so whatever he did he did willingly, except serve the Emperor as a Sith Lord for a small while before he was betrayed by Malak.

 

You're right. We don't know what happens but if you read the novel you will see Scourge's vision of a Jedi other than Revan killing Vitiate became true. That's the entire reason why he betrayed Revan and Surik against Vitiate. If the game story will go according to the novel then the lightside story wins and that means REVAN LIVES. Deal with it.

 

His defiance of the Council's edict to not join the Mandalorian Wars is pretty much the last independent idea he had for the majority of his life except for the two years he helped on Korriban after the events of KotOR 2. Malak firing on the bridge of his ship pretty much left him comatose for the Council to mind-wipe into doing their bidding, before that he was pretty much the Emperor's plaything. After that (the events after the Revan novel) he's basically the Emperor's toy to torture at his (the Emperor's) leisure, and the only reason he didn't snap and give in is because of Meetra's Force Ghost.

 

"Always in motion, the future is."

 

I believe that's what Yoda said to Luke.

 

 

Scourge's vision could very well prove to be completely and utterly false. The Sith Warrior story shows that the Jedi Knight did not in fact kill Vitate, but only the Voice of the Emperor. Basically all the Knight did is give the Emperor a headache that he had to lay down for a while to recover from.

 

 

Also, on the Empire side, you kill Revan in the Foundry Flashpoint. The Foundry takes place after the Republic rescues Revan

Spoiler, the Emperor let him go

.

 

Revan isn't nearly as amazing as people would like to believe. Deal with it.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aximand

[EvanSnowWolf]

Yeah.. Revan is so awesome that he got punked by my Jedi Guardian's sidekick.

[Jurakan]

I believe that's what Yoda said to Luke.

 

I won't change my opinion over "you believe". When did this conversation took place? besides your imagination?

[Dendarogg]

Has nobody ever played the Star Wars Roleplaying Game? In the handbooks you can find the detailed character sheets of Vader, Revan, Malak, Meetra Surik and so on.

Read them and you no longer need to open the same debates on power levels again and again.

[Aximand]

I won't change my opinion over "you believe". When did this conversation took place? besides your imagination?

 

Er, Episode five. Before Luke went skittering off to Cloud City in order to confront Vader and try to save Han and Leia.

 

Did you even watch the movies?

 

Edit: I was wrong, the exact quote is "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future".

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aximand

[Jurakan]

I did.

 

Scourge's vision could very well prove to be completely and utterly false. The Sith Warrior story shows that the Jedi Knight did not in fact kill Vitate, but only the Voice of the Emperor. Basically all the Knight did is give the Emperor a headache that he had to lay down for a while to recover from.

 

so an end of one class conflicts with the end of another class. who cares? You're point is weak and it's sad to see where your triying to get at. I'm scared to ask what your favorite character is.

[Aximand]

I did.

 

so an end of one class conflicts with the end of another class. who cares? You're point is weak and it's sad to see where your triying to get at. I'm scared to ask what your favorite character is.

 

There is no conflict.

 

 

The Jedi Knight never actually fought the Emperor, all the Knight fought was the Voice of the Emperor.

 

 

My favorite character is a tie between Wedge Antilles and Corran Horn.

[_Zorth_]

I won't change my opinion over "you believe". When did this conversation took place? besides your imagination?

 

WTH are you talking about?

 

Fact: Yoda said those words to Luke in ESB.

 

Fact:

 

 

Revan died in the foundry, The republic first rescued him then the imperials sent a strike team to kill him.

 

 

Fact:

 

 

the emperor isn't dead, The last act of the SW storyline is proof of that.

 

 

Revan was far from the perfect Jedi, He broke tons of rules and cleaned up the galaxy from his own mess. He was planning to commit genocide against 97% of the imperial population, He went crazy after 300 years of torture by the emperor.

Edited March 4, 2012 by _Zorth_

[Jurakan]

if the emperor isn't dead what is Malgus doing sitting in his throne room with his guards and HK47? Edited March 4, 2012 by Jurakan

[Aximand]

if the emperor isn't dead what is Malgus doing sitting in his throne room with his guards and HK47?

 

 

Um, its called the "False Emperor" flashpoint for a reason. He's trying to usurp control of the Empire from the Emperor who is recovering from the backlash having the Emperor's Voice killed so suddenly.

 

 

False. Emperor.

 

Two words that make that whole situation perfectly clear.

[Jurakan]

False because it's not Vitiate himself. That is all. Edited March 4, 2012 by Jurakan

[_Zorth_]

if the emperor isn't dead what is Malgus doing sitting in his throne room with his guards and HK47?

 

It's called FALSE emperor for a reason..

 

Malgus took the throne while the Emperor was recovering, Why else would the empire send a strike team to kill him if he wasn't a false emperor?

Edited March 4, 2012 by _Zorth_

[Wolfninjajedi]

Do you see what your doing? Your making an arguement for your opponent, I'm not sure if Raayla will use it but I sure will.

 

 

You've already used many examples of how Vader and Revan are alike. And thats the problem, Revan is literally an exact copy of Vader if you look at their stories. Thats why I don't lke him.

 

Well what do you expect? They pretty much ripped half of Vader's story and put it in Revan's.

[BrandonSM]

Well what do you expect? They pretty much ripped half of Vader's story and put it in Revan's.

 

Thats what I'm saying. Revan is a copy of Vader.

[BrandonSM]

He was so uber he could have a wife and babies with the councils approval while other jedi rolled over in envy because he was so strong they wanted to keep him on their side. He also reshaped and galaxy as he saw fit which is more than I can say for half of your favorite characters who play their role and die without having acomplished anything whatsoever. He also held back the invasion of the emperor for 300 years and survived captivity. Since all of the sith impire gets flattened in the long run, and given the fact that the emperor (Vitiate) is killed by a crappy jedi, I have a feeling he had a lot to do with the destruction of the empire.

 

You really don't know what your talking about.

 

 

The Jedi Council did not like him, Bastila states it in the Revan Novel. The Republic Forced them to make Revan a member of the council.

Edited March 4, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Deviss]

It is a bit ironic because while Revan was redeemed and was so desperate to sacrifce everyting in order to save his beloved Republic, in the end he is the one responsible for its downfall.

 

Few millenia after TOR, Bane uses Revan's perception of the dark side in order to create the Rule of Two - new philosophyical apprach of the sith. It will ultimately lead to the annihilation of almost the entire jedi order and formation of the Galactic Empire as we know it from original trilogy.

 

While Republic may have bested Vitiate's empire, in the end it got destroyed and reformed from within. Revan was the one who instructed sith in their victory. No matter how Revan's story is developed and expanded in TOR, this is the ultimate outcome that can't be altered. I like this, as I said very ironic and interesting story twist.

 

Because of Revan, sith managed to defeat the jedi for the first time in the galaxy's history. By use of the most powerful weapons dark side has to offer - deception, cunning, manipulation.

 

So you could argue that Revan was in fact the most powerful sith ever - without him Palpatine would have never managed to rule the galaxy. Hold on haters! I am not claiming that Revan is the most powerful character in SW universe - it is possible that there were more then few sith/jedi who could have pose more than a match for him in open combat. I am just saying that you could portray him as the one who accomplished the most. Power can vary a lot. It all comes down to your personal, subjective opinion and the way you interpret canon lore.

 

On a side note, one can only wonder why Revan did not return to Lehon after regaining his memories. He could have destroyed his holocron and stop so much evil from ever happening...

Edited March 4, 2012 by Deviss

[_Zorth_]

Deviss, Do you think that the redeemed Revan had ever intended for the sith to take over the Republic a thousand years later?

Edited March 4, 2012 by _Zorth_

[Spartanik]

Do you see what your doing? Your making an arguement for your opponent, I'm not sure if Raayla will use it but I sure will.

 

 

You've already used many examples of how Vader and Revan are alike. And thats the problem, Revan is literally an exact copy of Vader if you look at their stories. Thats why I don't lke him.

 

what argument? that one? imo revan being similar to vader on the redemption part isnt a bad thing, i dont think revan is a a copy of vader at all, besides the redemption thing that is present in manny characters throughout EU take a pick, and imo they are all diferent. I no where said that vader was best then revan or revan was best then vader. you are making supositions.

im debating that whatever reasons you put there doesnt matter whos best, but you think it does. imo is a fail in your part.

In all honesty revan isnt overated nor vader, they are simply characters and most of the times, people just made them what they want them to be. For me an interesting charater doenst need to be perfect, nor god. If the story is good, and much more importantly the way is told is good, that was the case of kotor, those characters will feel specialy in my memory and aparently in the memory of manny ppl. characters like jolie, HK47 or canderous for instance. For god sake Kotor had better dialogues them many modern movies, possibly better then SW movies. how come a person isnt alowed to love this charcters, just because someone says otherwise?!

In the end i had blast playing kotor, and sometimes even today i still have. that is all that matters for me. And thus for i like the revan character, and nothing else matters.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Spartanik

[Deviss]

Deviss, Do you think that the redeemed Revan had ever intended for the sith to take over the Republic a thousand years later?

 

No, did I stated something that would suggest so? If yes, sorry for the confusion and let me clarify this matter. As I said - it is ironic. Despite Revan's redemption and his role as hero and savior, in the end he was the one responsible for Republic's downfall. BEFORE his redemption did he intend for the sith to become stronger than ever? Yes.

 

It is possible that AFTER his redemption, he had forgotten about his holocron on Lehon, or just simply ignored it, thinking that noone would ever seek it out.

 

Anyway, how are one's intentions related to what he actually achieved? No matter what his latter intensions where, in the end he is one who is responsible for ultimate victory of the sith. It may have been the last thing Revan wanted but it still does not change anything.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Deviss

[BrandonSM]

Deviss, Do you think that the redeemed Revan had ever intended for the sith to take over the Republic a thousand years later?

 

Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it.

 

 

 

He wanted to do Genocide on the entire Sith Race as a redeemed man in the Foundry

 

[Darth_Solrac]

The only combat achievements was killing Mandalore the Ultimate and Malak.

 

And killing Malak wasn't that big of a deal, he sparred with him thousands of times and always defeated him. Malak tried to kill him by destroying his ship, a cheap way to kill. Malak was not impressive.

 

 

Mandalore the Ultimate really means nothing... Vader fought to a draw with the greatest BH and Mandalore ever.

 

 

If he gets an honorable mention for NEARLY conquering the Republic, then Vader gets an extremely honorable mention.

 

 

Sidious invaded the known galaxy politically.

 

Vader did it physically. He invaded dozens of worlds including some of the toughest armies of the Republic, Kashyyk is a prime example. He went into the temple killed around 10 masters and slaughtered numerous nameless Knights and Padawans. Possibly hundreds.

 

 

Vader's time was the time of the Golden Age of the Jedi. The Jedi Order at its best, and he slaughtered a huge deal with his legion of STORMTROOPERS. Revan had an mass army of JEDI behind him.

 

 

He didn't redeem himself. The Jedi redeemed him, they had to erase his memory in order for him to change. Vader chose that decision by himself.

 

I use Vader as an example becuase thats what most used. But I can use other Examples if you'd prefer it.

 

He was called Mandalore the ULTIMATE for a reason friend. So yea, it mattered, alot. The Mandalorians revered him highly afterwards.

 

The fact that Revan could inspire such Jedi into what were really his own personal disciples IS also significant. Anakin was never able to do that as a Jedi.

 

Revan also never got his *** handed to him by a Jedi like Vader, by Obi Wan, who was also still technically his master no less.

 

I can go on, but I see now this debate will never end. I'm not saying he's the best ANYTHING ever, just that he deserves SOME cred.

[Deviss]

Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it.

 

 

 

He wanted to do Genocide on the entire Sith Race as a redeemed man in the Foundry

 

Wait, I thought he was just freed from the Maelstorm Nebula prison. You know, the one in which he was being held up in stasis for over three centuries, being constantly tormented as his mind was ravaged by the Emperor.

 

On top of that, his life was kind of wasted and ruined given the fact he would never be able to see his wife and son. Also, his most trusted allies were killed which kind of pissed him off. He felt sorrow that over three hundred years transformed into anger and hate. In combination with Emperor's influence it drove him mad.

 

But there is never to late for yet another redemption, or rather sudden clarity and realization of self flaws!