Harnessed Darkness\Shadows - The most OP talent in the game

[Antipathize]

That must be a gear thing, because my darkness has topped out at 200k and that's with very liberal use of wither and discharge. High-end players of any class will put out ridiculous numbers, but buffs and nerfs shouldnt be applied because of the exceptions.

 

I also use dps gear, the most damage I ever do is about 3k with assassinate, and 1k ticks with fl and 3 stacks of hd. I'm not trying to say I'm good or anything, but that number seems impossible unless your fighting under geared players and aoeing like crazy.

[Astarica]

I pull 400k+ every warzone without aoes on my darkness, as deception I cant even get close to that

 

The AOE argument is dumb anyway. Wither has higher DPS/DPF than Thrash on a single target without considering things like Wither is an AE, is ranged, doesn't miss, and provides 2 nasty side effects. Are we supposed to use an inferior attack so we don't accidentally pad our DPS?

[Astarica]

That must be a gear thing, because my darkness has topped out at 200k and that's with very liberal use of wither and discharge. High-end players of any class will put out ridiculous numbers, but buffs and nerfs shouldnt be applied because of the exceptions.

 

I also use dps gear, the most damage I ever do is about 3k with assassinate, and 1k ticks with fl and 3 stacks of hd. I'm not trying to say I'm good or anything, but that number seems impossible unless your fighting under geared players and aoeing like crazy.

 

It also depends on the map. You'll rarely break over 200K if you're actually trying to win in Alderran/Huttball. Getting crazy numbers in Voidstar, on the other hand, is quite common. Note that Alderaan/Huttball usually don't have very many opportunities to spam AEs anyway since encounters there tend to be pretty short.

[Antipathize]

You can do a 2 stack HD every 6 seconds. So you have a stun or KB (which usually won't hit a Darkness assassin because he will keep you from getting close) ready every 6 seconds? I wonder how anybody with a casting time ever beat you casting stuff that can be interrupted by normal interrupt methods.

 

2 stacks isn't important, because a sin that blows that instead of getting the third stack wastes the healing. Push/pull/knock backs/stuns all affect hd, and if you can't close a 10m distance to do your stuns, I don't know what to tell you. I have far more problems with operative healers, and troopers are a waste of energy unless they are under geared.

[Xavory]

Harnesses darkness can be interrupted with stuns or knock backs. The healing is the equivalent of one or two extra hits, and the perceived survivability from it probably comes from the sin blowing all his cooldowns and using it at the same time.

 

If you can't stop a sin from using HD, then learn to play. Also large damage numbers come from aoe stat padding, which is completely irrelevant to actual damage to single targets which is what really matters.

 

You sound like all those pernerf Operatives saying "GET GEARED AND L2P AND I WONT 2 SHOT YOU".

 

BUT , I think your sad attempt at Ethuggary did yield one interesting idea about Harnessed Darkness: Removing the immunity to interrupts might be an effective adjustment instead of just a raw damage% nerf. Good thinking Antipathize!

[bantros]

That must be a gear thing, because my darkness has topped out at 200k and that's with very liberal use of wither and discharge. High-end players of any class will put out ridiculous numbers, but buffs and nerfs shouldnt be applied because of the exceptions.

 

I also use dps gear, the most damage I ever do is about 3k with assassinate, and 1k ticks with fl and 3 stacks of hd. I'm not trying to say I'm good or anything, but that number seems impossible unless your fighting under geared players and aoeing like crazy.

 

The is what we were saying about Scrapper/Op before the class got hit by the nerf bat. Don't worry, I'm sure the most played class in the game will be left untouched

[Antipathize]

I don't have a problem with the interrupt being removed if it makes people stop crying. I get locked down by good players whenever I channel fl anyway, so if it makes people happy, by all means.

 

I worry about people crying for nerfs that will also affect my pve, that's unacceptable.

[Antipathize]

I apologize if I'm coming across as thuggish. I'm on my phone and it's hard to understand the hate for the class right now. I play my sin because of the utility, not the dps.

[Astarica]

You sound like all those pernerf Operatives saying "GET GEARED AND L2P AND I WONT 2 SHOT YOU".

 

BUT , I think your sad attempt at Ethuggary did yield one interesting idea about Harnessed Darkness: Removing the immunity to interrupts might be an effective adjustment instead of just a raw damage% nerf. Good thinking Antipathize!

 

I'd say make the FL interruptible if enemy is >4m away, so you can't just abuse melee classes, and also this ensures you won't lose badly to melee if they do get into melee range.

 

For the ranged matchups, Mercs have no interrupts, and Sorcs are one of the weakest class against HD (use FL against their FL = guaranteed win) so they can use the help. No idea about Snipers, since there are very few of those guys.

[jokerxdragon]

Then you can combine Shroud too and it's gg against a lot of classes.

 

Sins have a lot going for them.

 

IMO, their Tank spec should NOT be doing that damage. You spec Tank/Tank Hybrids for suvivability. It's silly it's spec'd for damage. (On our server most sins have a tankish build in PvP).

 

Their DPS Trees should though, yet as it stands right now if I run in to a DPS sin it's a free kill and they don't do much damage which to me, stands at a current design flaw with the tree and needs to be severely looked at.

 

You must be playing some bad Assassins/Shadows, because they have tremendous burst potential.

[Vember]

You sound like all those pernerf Operatives saying "GET GEARED AND L2P AND I WONT 2 SHOT YOU".

 

 

Yea, cause darkness/kinetic shadowsins are two shotting everybody

 

 

This entire rant is started over two things, which are stupid to begin with: Somebody got owned in a 1v1 and came here to cry, and/or someone saw some big numbers on a warzone scoreboard.

 

whoopy ****in doo. I'm much more dangerous on my marauder than I'll ever be on my shadow, and my survivability with cooldowns up is pretty stupid. To that end, i can't fathom any reason to nerf something that's of lesser danger on the battlefield. I can kill anything 1v1, just like my shadow, except my marauder has much higher burst, and gets higher damage AND healing done on the almighty warzone scoreboard, not to mention i kill people three times faster than on my shadow.

[cycao]

Yea, cause darkness/kinetic shadowsins are two shotting everybody

 

 

This entire rant is started over two things, which are stupid to begin with: Somebody got owned in a 1v1 and came here to cry, and/or someone saw some big numbers on a warzone scoreboard.

 

whoopy ****in doo. I'm much more dangerous on my marauder than I'll ever be on my shadow, and my survivability with cooldowns up is pretty stupid. To that end, i can't fathom any reason to nerf something that's of lesser danger on the battlefield. I can kill anything 1v1, just like my shadow, except my marauder has much higher burst, and gets higher damage AND healing done on the almighty warzone scoreboard, not to mention i kill people three times faster than on my shadow.

 

 

yeah i have not seen OP since he started the post, but he should rename to "Nerf Darkness/Kinetic specs"

[Populism]

This spec is powerful, but far from being unbeatable or overpowered in my opinion.

[Torlan_Fallstar]

Sounds like a learn to knockback/stun issue.

[neandramathal]

And it all stems out from darkcharge tbh. We don't have any drawback strapped on it except 5% melee dmg bonus reduction. Like we really care how much our trash is hitting for :/ All other classes give up more to use their "guard" stance.

 

Not read out the pages since this post but it's less a "downsides" in sense of what the stance has attached than what you lose out on for being in it, by which I mean what gains you would have be NOT being in the tank stance.

 

Talents that cannot be taken in other stances for instance, or for shadows/sins specifically, your force breach changes.

 

Now look at Ion Cell vs Plasma Cell, both have a damage proc (similar chance, but different damage type, like the shadows), but the tank cell has -5% damage TAKEN. The downside to using Ion Cell is not the cell itself, but the lack of access to the HiB procs etc in the Assault tree.

 

From cell alone, no, I would not say other classes give up more. Looking at talents you lose access to, I would say they are probably equal.

 

 

Other than that, yes I agree, 31/0/10 does too much damage. The low end of Kinetic is actually fine imho, its those 2 highest tiers. Slow Time is fantastic for PvE due to the aggro generation, but I think harnessed Shadows healing is a problem, Slow Time can do great damage on the board but won't really help spike anyone down. I wouldn't say Slow Time is a problem at all, or Project, its the +75% damage AND 3% heal per tick AND interuptable, it's too much.

[Reveillere]

You must be playing some bad Assassins/Shadows, because they have tremendous burst potential.

 

Yes... when recklessness isn't on CD. Deception sins rely too heavy on crits, shock barely hits for 1.5-2k and the same damage on discharge, a deception sin can only do some really good burst once every 1m15s

 

While then, if we go to the tank tree.. Energize is an auto crit on shock for the tank spec.. A deception sin can do a bit higher burst every once and then (remember, recklessness doesn't even guarentee a crit, only raises it with 60% chance, making it about 90% chance to crit) I've often as a deception sin popped my recklessness and both discharge and shock was non crits. Outside of that the deception sin really has no damage at all, also, the tank spec overall has a more stable force regeneration. Darkness > Deception. In all cases.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Reveillere

[cycao]

Yes... when recklessness isn't on CD. Deception sins rely too heavy on crits, shock barely hits for 1.5-2k and the same damage on discharge, a deception sin can only do some really good burst once every 1m15s

 

that plus adrenals and relics and there procs other than that yeah. But enough about deception lets get back to the OPness of darkness

[Reveillere]

that plus adrenals and relics and there procs other than that yeah. But enough about deception lets get back to the OPness of darkness

 

Darkness is the only spec worth speccing for as an assassin, it is OP as a tank, it does more damage than our dps spec which is outrageous

[Vember]

Darkness is the only spec worth speccing for as an assassin, it is OP as a tank, it does more damage than our dps spec which is outrageous

 

No it doesn't. You might do more damage on a warzone scoreboard than an Infiltration spec, but that's only because you don't die as much, and Balance will still outdamage Kinetic by a large margin. The problem with Infiltration and Balance is that they have complete **** for survivability, even though with the right amount of crit a Balance shadow / madness assassin will have higher healing than a kinetic/darkness spec.

 

Personally, I think Shadow is supposed to be the dps tank. Personal dps is lower than dps classes, which is how it should be...warzone scoreboards don't mean anything.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Vember

[cycao]

No it doesn't. You might do more damage on a warzone scoreboard than an Infiltration spec, but that's only because you don't die as much, and Balance will still outdamage Kinetic by a large margin. The problem with Infiltration and Balance is that they have complete **** for survivability, even though with the right amount of crit a Balance shadow / madness assassin will have higher healing than a kinetic/darkness spec.

 

Personally, I think Shadow is supposed to be the dps tank. Personal dps is lower than dps classes, which is how it should be...warzone scoreboards don't mean anything.

 

right on brothah. If i guard a well played deception player and stick with him, he will do double the damage that i can put out. I do my job keeping him alive, he does his job in melting faces.

[Panzerbase]

No it doesn't. You might do more damage on a warzone scoreboard than an Infiltration spec, but that's only because you don't die as much, and Balance will still outdamage Kinetic by a large margin. The problem with Infiltration and Balance is that they have complete **** for survivability, even though with the right amount of crit a Balance shadow / madness assassin will have higher healing than a kinetic/darkness spec.

 

Personally, I think Shadow is supposed to be the dps tank. Personal dps is lower than dps classes, which is how it should be...warzone scoreboards don't mean anything.

 

Excellent point, a tank simply lives longer and does more damage. This thread has been exposed for what it is, some chump in greens who got his *** handed to him and decided to cry about it.

[Reveillere]

No it doesn't. You might do more damage on a warzone scoreboard than an Infiltration spec, but that's only because you don't die as much, and Balance will still outdamage Kinetic by a large margin. The problem with Infiltration and Balance is that they have complete **** for survivability, even though with the right amount of crit a Balance shadow / madness assassin will have higher healing than a kinetic/darkness spec.

 

Personally, I think Shadow is supposed to be the dps tank. Personal dps is lower than dps classes, which is how it should be...warzone scoreboards don't mean anything.

 

Yes... of course it's higher. Because you have auto crit like the tank spec.. geez, did you even try both specs? I played 60 ranks as deception, and now I've played 5 ranks (60-65) as darkness. Darkness DOES more damage. A deception sin can't burst down a guy, move along to the next guy and burst down him aswell. Their damage without recklessness up is VERY low. Discharge hits for under 1,5k, Shock hits under 2k.. Tell me, where does this damage come from??

[cycao]

Yes... of course it's higher. Because you have auto crit like the tank spec.. geez, did you even try both specs? I played 60 ranks as deception, and now I've played 5 ranks (60-65) as darkness. Darkness DOES more damage. A deception sin can't burst down a guy, move along to the next guy and burst down him aswell. Their damage without recklessness up is VERY low. Discharge hits for under 1,5k, Shock hits under 2k.. Tell me, where does this damage come from??

 

i would like to ask you the same question, why does a tank do more damage than deception? I have no evidence other than the other posts in this thread that leads me to believe that 1 (one) ability high up in the tanking tree makes all other abilities in the DPS trees lackluster.

[Reveillere]

i would like to ask you the same question, why does a tank do more damage than deception? I have no evidence other than the other posts in this thread that leads me to believe that 1 (one) ability high up in the tanking tree makes all other abilities in the DPS trees lackluster.

 

Energize.

 

While Dark Charge is active, damage dealt by Thrash, Lacerate, and Assassinate has a 30% chance to finish the cooldown on Shock and make your next Shock a critical hit. Energized Shocks that consume a charge of Recklessness deal an additional 50% critical damage.

 

30% chance to finish cooldown on shock and make it an auto crit, seriously, do you know how often this happens? Almost every shock is a freaking crit. A shock crit is easily 3k + damage. Thrash hits REALLY hard due to the extra 50% criti dmg (with 30% crit chance it crits quite often since you use it ALOT) and lets not forget what this thread is about. Harnessed Darkness. it hits really hard aswell. The auto crit on shock itself is why darkness does more damage than deception, if you add recklessness and relic/adrenals/stim you hit 5k easy with bm gear, hit some thrashs and the next shock will crit for 3-3.5k, repeat.. a darkness sin can make its shocks crit everytime. you don't need a lot of time to outdamage the deception

 

a deception sin will always hit harder on 1 target, but it cant move on to the next target and deal the same damage, it has to wait.. a darkness sin can burst down 1 target and do the same to the next guy, and the next guy..

[cycao]

got it