Gs/snipers, 100% useless for competitive play

[Vyndeta]

MM = PVE SPECC STOP SA THAT YOUR DMG GETS MITIGATED .MM SPEC IS NOT FOR PVP STOP EVEN SPEAKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES OT PVP ITS A DAMN PURE PVE SPECC.pvp specc are full letha or leth/engi.And yes snipers is by far the worst class in the game at mand who ever says the oposite he just palying another game .Plain and simple.Oh btw snipers are the worst in both 1v1 and grp situations than every other class.Thanks.

 

Fellow Sniper when the times comes and we notice it only the few that left behind and didnht rerroled will deserve it the most enough said .

 

lol what?

[Wrakk]

Gunslinger/Sniper = worst class mechanics in game. Needs much more love.

[Retro_Chrome]

Why? It works perfectly.

 

4k + 3k = Healer with 0 health.

 

for rated WZ which will be lvl 50 and they only have 7k hp they are half naked even a poorly geared lvl 50 sage will have at least 10k hp avg for rateds will be 15k for sages and everyone else 16k-17k +

[Mailek]

100% dead when rated war zones comes out? Hmm I still plan on playing my Sniper as it's my main. So you're 100% incorrect.

[KraithFjorn]

I didn't read.

Go learn your maths.

 

Sniper

Ambush + explosive probe = dead healer

 

That's a very cute way of ignoring the issues Snipers have.

 

@ the OP

 

To say snipers are 100% useless for competitive play is, well, wrong. I've been devoutly playing a sniper in PvP since release, and am currently valued in my PvP guild, mostly because I can put out fairly high numbers on enemy targets. Despite what a large portion of the sniper community says, we can put out quite a bit of DPS, even solo queuing against a premade. Being able to focus and takes down targets quickly, either eliminating significant targets or peeling them off from the objective and forcing them to pay attention to you is valued and something not many other classes can do to the same effect.

 

Now, that's not to say I'm blind to the issues that do plague Snipers, and there are plenty of people who are. Not being able to enter cover on ramps/ledges, not being able to enter cover while rooted, Entrench and/or Cover Pulse not working 100% of the time, et cetera. Some of these are overcome-able, but the fact of the matter is they do severely raise the skill curb needed to play a Sniper effectively.

 

Beyond that, certain individual trees do need some work, namely Lethality. Quite honestly, the only viable builds for a good sniper to use in a competitive PvP environment are Engineering, MM, or an Eng/MM Hybrid. Lethality could work in competitive PvP, if there wasn't an instant cast a few classes had access to which effectively make Lethality completely useless. As a tree, they are in desperate need of some sort of Dispell protection, because I can promise you when rated WZs come out, the few snipers aren't going to be using an obsolete spec.

 

While I disagree with the OP on some points, this is a discussion that needs to be made apparent to Bioware. It's clear even from Sniper sub-forums that there is a significant portion of the Sniper community that is finding the class extremely difficult, and virtually non of the issues presented have been given lip service from Bioware.

[Anelyn]

Run this comp in rated: sniper marks, operative conceal, sorc healer, PT Pyro. You will totally ****, and enjoy every minute of it (as long as your team knows how to nullify guard and taunts, when you connect for 2 globals on 1 target, it will die with all CC this comp is capable of).

 

What is biggest problem for snipers / gs? Getting losed / outranged. This comp fixes that. PT pulls, operative knocksdown, and you finish the job.

 

You have non DR roots that can be chained, aoe CC 10-30m, single target CC (sage and operative), stuns, slows, dots of both types, burst dmg, great defenses, great aoe dmg (2 orbital strikes + DFA + storm if needed), tech and force dmg for heavy armor.

 

Stop thinking inside the box of how you can pawn solo in WZs, and get a team going, this is a MMO, and every single WZ is designed to be played by teams, to work together for objectives, communicate and support eachother.

[Aidank]

I think the problem is that snipers are simply outclassed by mercenaries which are much, much easier to play.

 

My premade was testing out a sniper, with team support keeping him from dying every 15 seconds he actually did a ton of damage, and he was bursty as all hell.

 

But... Then we decided to swap him out for a merc, who was in slightly worse gear, but with the same team support he died maybe once a wz, if that, and was doing even more damage, and it was even burstier. A merc who has teammates preventing him from getting interrupted is better than a sniper in just about any way I can think of, besides the lack of an interrupt & a sniper's AoE mezz, but the difference in survivability alone more than makes up for that.

 

 

 

 

IMO they just need more of a niche than ranged burst damage to separate them from mercenaries, I think they should be given the same MS marauders have, I think that's more than enough to make them worth taking in rated warzones as ranged healer killers.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Aidank

[goskins]

I think the problem is that snipers are simply outclassed by mercenaries which are much, much easier to play.

 

My premade was testing out a sniper, with team support keeping him from dying every 15 seconds he actually did a ton of damage, and he was bursty as all hell.

 

But... Then we decided to swap him out for a merc, who was in slightly worse gear, but with the same team support he died maybe once a wz, if that, and was doing even more damage, and it was even burstier. A merc who has teammates preventing him from getting interrupted is better than a sniper in just about any way I can think of, besides the lack of an interrupt & a sniper's AoE mezz, but the difference in survivability alone more than makes up for that.

 

 

 

 

IMO they just need more of a niche than ranged burst damage to separate them from mercenaries, I think they should be given the same MS marauders have, I think that's more than enough to make them worth taking in rated warzones as ranged healer killers.

 

 

Pretty much, mercs get 55% armor penetration on top of more tech damage,

 

Snipers get 20% with a debuff they can choose to apply and another 20% for just 1 ability which costs 11 talant points to specc.

[Cestral]

Yup snipers definitely need some lovin'. First and foremost if bugs would be fixed that'd help a little. Like previously said, you can't use cover on ledges without getting error messages, so I often find myself dancing around to find a bug free spot just so I can use my abilities (!!!).

 

I can also say that mercenaries often do 50% extra up to double my damage in warzones. I see this a lot.

 

I can also say that we're probably the worst 1vs1 class in the game. If someone focuses you, you're pretty much always screwed. If a melee runs after you, you're screwed because you must be in cover to do any noticeable damage, but at the same time if you sit in cover you will get demolished. Reminds me a bit of hunters in WoW. It took Blizzard several years to finally realize that hunters simply didn't work out in PVP because they had to stand still to use their attacks. They're better now, but they still haven't worked it out completely. This makes me believe that Bioware (who have by miles and miles nowhere near the same experience as Blizzard when it comes to balancing) might never actually realize that cover and PVP are a terrible mix.

 

An annoying gameplay aspect of playing a sniper is also the delay between entering cover and before you can start using your attacks. It makes everything feel sluggish.

 

Fix the bugs, fix the cover delay, fix the discrimination between sniper/gs and defensive cooldowns, and increase sniper damage and possibly range as well. I always felt that snipers should have a longer range (as it says in the class description), but we're no different than any other ranged class.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Cestral

[ThePoomz]

I agree and disagree with a lot of points on here.

 

I'm Valor 62 SS Gunslinger with most pieces filled with BM.

 

I do incredibly well against light armored classes and classes that don't have a lot of expertise.

 

I've 3 shotted many classes.

 

I finish Top 2 damage in almost every game I play, this goes for both sides.

 

I have a very hard time killing good assassins and mercenaries (lately it seems that both of these classes take very little damage at all from me).

 

I cannot kill a good operative one on one no matter how things turn out for me.

 

I get bugged out when shooting on ledges and in certain areas , basically making me worthless.

 

Cover system needs to either deflect more damage or provide extra damage bonuses.

 

I think if the class is played well it certainly has its plusses, but I can't think of too many advantages over a DPS specced Vanguard or Consular.

[bheta]

LOLsnipers.

 

 

They are so easy to kill....

 

Even squishier then my operative

[LuthirFontaine]

I think i can say that no other class needs more BW loving then the gs/sniper...

[painsponge]

whats sad is our problems are prob. last on biofail's fix list, being the least played class and all. Imagine if sorcs were in our position, this thread would be sticky by now.

[Rooks]

I am not a numbers guy, but my GS can defend the door on Voidstar or a turret in Civil War by himself until help arrives.

 

I don't top the charts, but I do alot of fun stuff.

 

I stun all the time with leg shot and flash grenades.

 

Yes my concus has to be from cover, but that is just a challenge and when it works, it is Awesome to send guys off the bridges or the top rails.

 

If you try to focus on just one guy, you will die and do nothing.

 

I spread the pain. DOT everyone near me, flash, pulse and then Flyover the group and watch the numbers scroll. Sure, only a few may Die, but the rest are a easy mop up for the rest of my team.

 

as for the OP saying we have no Health? I rock over 18k in WZs with my single buffs and do 7k - 9k damage with primary.

 

1500+ cunning and 1500+ end 4200+ armor.

 

Besides doesn't really matter if you cannot have fun, change to a differant character.

 

GS needs some help, but they are FAR from Useless in PVP, maybe you just need more practice and new tactics?

 

Stop counting the numbers and just enjoy.

[GloryOfLove]

The Sniper class is horribly designed and should be renamed to Shiny Shield Class.

 

When I play the class it reminds me little of what I've seen from previous sniper classes in other games.

 

The sniper has very little range advantage and attracts a ton of attention on the battlefield with the cover screen. Most snipers are stealthy and try to remain undetected.

 

The main problem with the class is that it's two most useful abilities, melee stun and aoe knockback, have to be used in melee range. Between ambush kb, melee stun, flashbang and aoe knockback you can put a lot of pressure on people with cast bars. The problem is that you have to run into melee range to do these things which is suicidal if you're not dueling someone and defeats the purpose of being a Ranged Sniper.

 

Give the sniper Vanish (temporary stealth) to more easily reposition itself and make diversion more useful to either a snare, root, interrupt or something better than just accuracy decreasing and mirror class counter.

 

If you did those two things I guarantee survivability and utility would be greatly increased and the class would not be overpowered.

[poulpatine]

GS needs some help, but they are FAR from Useless in PVP, maybe you just need more practice and new tactics?

Useless in competitive play, the only kind of play where you can judge the balance of classes. Good for you if you enjoy pugging and sniping/doting from afar. I don't care, even monkeys can do this and top damage with every ac.

 

Stop counting the numbers and just enjoy.

Yep i agree, stop counting the numbers, continue to enjoy when everyone (yourself included) knows you're a wasted slot. **** damage on ball carriers, far less dps than mercs in pvp and a lot more squishy.

[master_finese]

Healing operative is worse

Game was designed for Jedi ...Sentinel and Sages, Maruaders and Sorceror

[caravaggio]

I think BW definitely needs to give GS/Sniper some love, especially the SS tree.

 

First, the bugs need to be addressed.

Next, I'd take a look at the end game gear which (T3) which doesn't seem to give much of an improvement over T2.

Cover needs to be adjusted to provide more protection against melee classes and damage other than ranged damage.

You need to be able to drop into cover while rooted.

If Roll Into Cover is considered (by the devs) to not be the ideal option for PvP, then Take Cover in Place (crouch) needs to provide the same defensive bonus as Environmental Cover in PvP.

Abilities like Hunker Down should drop you into cover automatically.

Pulse should be able to be used outside of cover.

Something like a small speed boost (with a cool down) upon exiting cover might be nice.

 

Finally, I'd start looking at tweaks to damage and consider the possibility of moving some of our abilities from Ranged Damage to Tech Damage.

A boost to armor piercing.

A reduction to the cost of charged shot.

A reduction to resolve caused from aimed shot.

An increase in range.

 

And my favorite... Consider an instant Aimed Shot when you fall below 20% health (on the same cool down as quick shot) so we have a better method of escape from melee classes.

[Xsorus]

^Bad Sniper/GS spotted. Topping the dmg meter =/= good player, even though my Sniper friend is always #1. The reason people whine about Sniper/GS is because they can't handle the positioning and maneuvering needed to be effective, which other classes don't need to worry about. Just because they're harder to play doesn't mean they're weaker, far from. Just l2p please.

 

 

 

No, the only class that can beat Sniper/GS in raw burst is Ops/Scoundrel. Also, like I said a good Sniper knows to position and maneuver to counter simple LoS'ing, and if they're Lethality/Dirty Fighting they wont even be dependant on cover.

 

Everyone posting on forums to nerf/buff x class is always a scrub, Sniper/GS is as viable as any other class when played correctly.

 

You will never come close to the amount of Burst I can put on my Pyrotech...

[Knockerz]

I stop playing my sniper like two months ago cause they don't have any mobility and based on my experience playing a melee class in wow against range specs that weren't mobile were easy targets.

 

The cover mechanic should have just added a bonus and not be required to fire any of your abilities since you still have to channel/cast your heavy hitting abilities, but unlike other classes they don't need to be in cover. Thus, your better off playing some other class than a sniper.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Knockerz

[greeblesnort]

GS should be the very definition of "run & gun" (instead of trooper) and for every tree except the DF tree (which is about to be mega nerfed for usefulness in PvP) is a little irritating. My main is a GS, rolled because I was interested in the movie version that I envisioned...hanging out in seedy cantinas, breaking hearts on every planet, avoiding Imperial entaglements and generally staying one step ahead of the debt collectors. Can you, even for one second, picture Han Solo telling everyone to hold on a sec while he drops his cover before the gunfight?

 

Cover isn't necessarily a bad mechanism (especially when compared to requiring Upper Hand for everything), but instead of a requirement on the skills, it should be a buff that actually makes us worth bringing as a pure DPS class. I understand the need for restrictions, but 5-10% "more" DPS potential doesn't mean much when you spend most of your time being force choked out of cover. The pure DPS classes/trees should do more damage...possibly as much as 20% more than the utility classes.

[RingoFette]

I agree with above post, i don't think any of our skills should require cover, but possibly be nerfed out of cover from current, and slightly buffed into cover from current, that would give us the mobility of other other classes and when we do hunker down for cover give us the damage a pure dps class should put out. right? possibly? Just a "Quick Shot" in the dark.

[Caeliux]

@OP,

 

I read all of it OP, and think you have valid issues with GS or Sniper. I agree the level of difficulty in that class from a 1-10 is a 10.

 

Vs a zerg you get burned down very fast.

 

Vs CC sometimes it can be really hard to maintain unless your in a pre-made with a healer that can keep you up.

 

I played a Gunslinger in beta, also have a guild mate that plays one. I happen to agree it is very hard to play, but is very fun and a challenge which every match that you do good in you feel like you really worked hard.

 

I disagree on saying GS or Sniper is useless, I think they are very valuable in Open World, and in the Warzones.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Caeliux

[Seriasx]

I didn't read.

Go learn your maths.

 

Sniper

Ambush + explosive probe = dead healer

 

Gunslinger

Any gunslinger abilities + any other gunslinger abilities = useless.

 

LolOlOlllLLoLOLOLOL!!!

 

Even against our BEST target "sorcs" we will NEVER kill ANYONE in 2 hits at any time EVER.

 

Everyone other then sorcs we do 1/4 dmg, pop a defensive temp? Oh now we do like 1/10th.

 

 

But hey why listen to me, just take a look around you while doing a WZ and see how many slingers / snipers you see.

[Anelyn]

You will never come close to the amount of Burst I can put on my Pyrotech...

 

I can, on my operative Die sages & sorcs, dieeeeeee!