Sythe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Getting upgraded shiny new gear is a big part of the fun for I think Edited April 2, 2012 by Sythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Since Bioware made their choice early on in development that this would be a gear driven game, you can pretty much bet that superior gear and/or mods is what you're going to see with every given content update. New Operations/Flashpoints means slightly better gear, new ranked WZs means slightly better gear. This game is nothing more than a grind for gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Getting upgraded gear is a big part of the fun, for myself and all my friends atleast in mmos. We're all holding out for rated warzones but if the gear is only for cosmetics I know we'll all just end up quiting. Seriously, why? I'm not kidding, I'd like to hear an honest reason. I know the new shinny is fun to get but why does it need stats? Why can't it just be something that SHOWS you are a ranked higher, more skilled, etc. The only reason I can think of is because you feel like you need some advantage over others excluding you're own skill. If that's the only reason, bye... Hope the door -does- hit you on the way out. Gear progression can be fun without just having more stats. One thing WoW really broke with the genre, especially with the xpacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 gear is the reason i pvp. the only thing that keeps me going. its what gives me a sense of progression. i dont care about being able to beat other players, thats just a means to an end. without gear upgrades i would quickly lose interest. things like leader boards and scores will keep me interested for a short while, but the thought of a new piece of armour would keep me goign much longer. now no doubt im going to get a bunch of naive people tell me im a bad player because of my opinion. ill happily ignore them like i ignore all the other small minded fools. the fact is i play ok, i have good days and bad days. win some and lose some. i enjoy playing but only because of the feeling of progression i get from upgraded gear. and this i believe is true for a high percentage of people who play MMO's. if they didnt upgrade the gear, i can pretty much guarantee rated warzones will quickly become redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You people want to know why MMO PvP is terrible these days? Because MMOs cater to this... gear is the reason i pvp. the only thing that keeps me going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Seriously, why? I'm not kidding, I'd like to hear an honest reason. I know the new shinny is fun to get but why does it need stats? Why can't it just be something that SHOWS you are a ranked higher, more skilled, etc. The only reason I can think of is because you feel like you need some advantage over others excluding you're own skill. If that's the only reason, bye... Hope the door -does- hit you on the way out. Gear progression can be fun without just having more stats. One thing WoW really broke with the genre, especially with the xpacs. Because not all games rely on equality? And many of them are still fun? White always moves first in chess and is widely considered an advantage. In the game a-hole, or scum, the president exchanges his worst cards for the scum/a-hole's best. Because winning as the underdog can be fun, and lording over scrublets can be fun too? The best pvp games of all time still had progression. Daoc, for one, had realm abilities only available through points awarded from pvp kills. Did you ever play king of the hill when you were a child? You need to dispel your preconceptions about what competition is. Competition is ANYTHING. It could be a race. A race to get gear, even. Edited March 1, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You people want to know why MMO PvP is terrible these days? Because MMOs cater to this... Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You people want to know why MMO PvP is terrible these days? Because MMOs cater to this... Real MMO PvP would make it so that when you died you lost your gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Real MMO PvP would make it so that when you died you lost your gear. And your faction would lose access to the best crafting resources and raid areas unless you got back in there and helped take the objectives back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You people want to know why MMO PvP is terrible these days? Because MMOs cater to this... you say that like pvp in MMO's has ever been different. its always been gear driven. thats the nature of an MMORPG's if you dont like how this works, there are plenty of fps games out there for you to play where everyone has exactly the same set up and its down to whos quickest and most accurate etc to win. MMORPG's are gear driven. i have no interest whatsoever in fluff items, and thats why imo gear upgrades are a must to keep interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulltramagns Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Go ahead and compare the stats and set bonuses and tell me they are equal. Why is mixing in Rakata BIS for pvp? Again, rakata is t3 bm is t3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This message is hidden because Ahhmyface is on your ignore list. Sorry, What was that? I dont speak child. So far the minority thinks: The rated WZ gear should have better stats, and only pre-mades should be able to que. Majority: Rated WZ gear should be same/no stat upgrade/only cosmetic difference OR solo queing should be allowed. At least we know this community has more REAL pvpers in it then expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 In all honesty, the fact that pvp is something that you grind rather than compete in is why pvp is so terrible. Games like WoW, Guild Wars, and TOR all treat pvp as a mini-game rather than as an integral part of the game. The days of high-risk, high-reward pvp are largely behind the mmo-genre as people are expected to play mmos more and more casually. EVERYONE who plays TOR is a casual player, regardless of what they think about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Sorry, What was that? I dont speak child. So far other people with valid opinions think: The rated WZ gear should have better stats, and only pre-mades should be able to que. I think: Rated WZ gear should be same/no stat upgrade/only cosmetic difference OR solo queing should be allowed. At least we know this community has more REAL pvpers in it then expected. Fixed. Edited March 1, 2012 by mechintel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah, gear progression is important to people, that's why it's the crux of many games. However, forcing players down a single path into that gear progression is not a good design. People want options in progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Yeah, gear progression is important to people, that's why it's the crux of many games. However, forcing players down a single path into that gear progression is not a good design. People want options in progression. Yeah, it's way better to have zero options of gear progression, than have a single option, amirite? Edited March 1, 2012 by mechintel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sorry, What was that? I dont speak child. So far the minority thinks: The rated WZ gear should have better stats, and only pre-mades should be able to que. Majority: Rated WZ gear should be same/no stat upgrade/only cosmetic difference OR solo queing should be allowed. At least we know this community has more REAL pvpers in it then expected. Where is your data to show which is the minority or majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Fixed. I believe they still teach basic counting in kindergarten or even earlier now-a-days. True testament to your lack of education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Where is your data to show which is the minority or majority? All the threads on the subject in the PVP forums. You just count how many posts in each thread are for or against each. Believe me, I was expecting the opposite result given all the WoW -lovers playing this game for some reason. Edited March 1, 2012 by Hype-l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah, it's way better to have zero options of gear progression, than have a single option, amirite? Don't know what you're getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshadow Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Please just make it a cosmetic change instead of having better stats on the items. I really don't want to hear from bad players that I only won cause of my gear. No offense, but that is the only reason you won. You are not and never will be a good player as long as there is large disparity in gear. Honestly there are no "good" players in SWTOR. You are either average or bad. To have "good" players would require active blocking, dodging, etc. where 1 player could concievable take on 4 other players of equal gear based on skill. SWTOR is not about skill. It's just a numbers game. Bioware can't comprehend the fact that people might actually simply enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP. There is an entire bracket of people playing for the simply enjoyment of PvP. Why at lvl 50 they have to ruin it for those people I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 All the threads on the subject in the PVP forums. You just count how many posts in each thread are for or against each. Believe me, I was expecting the opposite result given all the WoW -lovers playing this game for some reason. And where is your proof that people who visit the forum are a representative sample of all TOR players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelf Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm all for cosmetic rated WZ gear or items. Give me an Ewok mount that I can park on top of the PvP quest terminal and let everyone bask in the glow of my e-peen. I'm better than everyone else, and they need to be reminded of it in my presence. All I need is two twi'lek slave girls as summonable pets that release doves every time I walk into a room. Or maybe special gear that whites out a player's screen for 4 sec when they first look in my direction with a 2min CD on the effect. Hell, just a relic that causes a cone of light to always be cast upon me. Damn, my ideas are almost as epic as I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm all for cosmetic rated WZ gear or items. Give me an Ewok mount that I can park on top of the PvP quest terminal and let everyone bask in the glow of my e-peen. I'm better than everyone else, and they need to be reminded of it in my presence. All I need is two twi'lek slave girls as summonable pets that release doves every time I walk into a room. Or maybe special gear that whites out a player's screen for 4 sec when they first look in my direction with a 2min CD on the effect. Hell, just a relic that causes a cone of light to always be cast upon me. Damn, my ideas are almost as epic as I am. Those ideas are pretty cool. I really like the whiteout effect. Players go blind when they look at my face. To fight me they must look at my feet the whole battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoshist Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I agree with the OP. PvP is supposed to test skill, not gear. The people that say there is no skill in PvP were abused children. PvE progression fights progressively harder bosses and needs progressively better gear. PvP gear needs to keep up with PvE gear to prevent PvE gear becoming better for PvP. PvPers don't get more hit points and attack harder as you progress on; you're fighting the same players the day you turn 50 as the day you hit War Hero. They may obtain better gear (as you will) but that is capped at a certain point. Eventually the playing field evens out for everyone. So the people making the claim "derp derp raiders get better gear by raiding so ranked WZ players should too herpa derp" are incorrect. Different gear? That's fine. Better gear? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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