Dots not interrupting fine?, But Huttball allowed to remain forceball?

[ulukinatme]

When you get level 50, and play huttball, You let me know how that goes for ya.

 

Sorcs sprint isn't even half the problem with that class.

 

Actually, I have a 50 Merc and a 36 Sorc. I know what Sorcs can do in Huttball, and I don't really have a problem with it. I also know the limitations of my Merc and his strengths. Your class has it's own strengths and weaknesses too, you should learn them and quit focusing on what the Sorc has.

[ulukinatme]

 

You should NOT be able to Force SPeed with the ball.... pass the ball.

You should NOT be able to pull a ally ball carrier at all.... pass the ball.

You should NOT be able to Force Leap of any kind with the ball... pass the ball.

 

 

Boring! Yeah, lets remove all the abilities in Huttball that make it interesting.

[Zunayson]

A. Did you seriously just try to compare an operative ball running to a Jedi Knight? Even if you couldn't charge a Jedi Knight, you'd still be superior to an operative running the ball.

 

B. Again, you're trying to say Powertechs have this great stuff, But problem is, Force users do the same thing as powertech's, only better, If you have a choice between a powertech and a juggy for huttball, you want a juggy flat out. You also mentioned Merc, which guess what, Assassin and Sorc knockbacks are aoe, and Sorcs have the same root as Mercs.

 

A. No, I mean that different classes excel at different things. My Jedi Knight is obviously underpowered because I can't heal AND damage. Okay, find "My ____ is obviously underpowered because I can't have a ____ and a _____ ."

 

B. Sigh... No class BUT THE PT has a PULL and a LEAP, SPEC'D OR NOT. PERIOD. FACT. No class can heal AND stealth but the operative. No class can tank and stealth but the 'Sin. No class has _____ and ____ but ________ . Each class has some form of utility in CC and in roll. I'll list a few down below. But Inquisitors must SPEC to get the root. More madness than lightning on my server, so the root is rare. MERC KB IS THE MOST POWERFUL IN THE GAME. arguable to whether the sniper's Cover Pulse is better (15m/20m I think? More force, so elevation change makes a BIG difference). It's much better than the 10 m Overload.

 

Merc: Heals and the best AoE Knockback + 1 min PvE blind (8 seconds in PvP)

PT: Pull on AC, Leap on spec, Snare/KB immunity on Spec, tanking.

 

Sniper: HAHAHAHAHAHA. KB, FULL CC IMMUNITY, LEAP IMMUNITY!

Operative: Heals and stealth. 1 min Mezz, 8 seconds in PvP. Best burst damage from stealth.

 

Sentinel: Guarded by the Force. Leap on class, second leap separate CD on Spec, AoE blind mezz on AC, that is all.

Guardian: Leap on class, friendly leap on AC, Single most powerful knockback (Single target only) resetting leap, Separate leap on spec, tanking.

 

Sorc: Speed on class, KB on class, Root on KB on spec, healing

'Sin: Stealth and tank, Pull on spec, Speed on class

 

No two of those classes are complete repeats. I didn't name sniper because nobody likes them. ****, my main is a sniper.

[Xsorus]

Actually, I have a 50 Merc and a 36 Sorc. I know what Sorcs can do in Huttball, and I don't really have a problem with it. I also know the limitations of my Merc and his strengths. Your class has it's own strengths and weaknesses too, you should learn them and quit focusing on what the Sorc has.

 

That's a moronic statement "you should stop focusing on the overpowered nature of some classes in a warfront, and focus on you not having any overpowered abilities in other warfronts"

 

I love that logic "You should stop focusing on the Bright Wizard in warhammer who has an ability that if you throw it on a target being healed, it'll wipe your entire teams healers in about 6 seconds flat, and instead focus on the fact you don't have it, and have something remarkably less powerful, because ya know.. I have skillz playing my BW"

 

"you should stop focusing on the fact my Pyromancer in Rift can one shot your character, and focus on the fact that you can stealth"

 

Such horrible horrible logic on your part.

[Xsorus]

Boring! Yeah, lets remove all the abilities in Huttball that make it interesting.

 

Yea, its boring to play every class that's not a force user.. go figure..

[Jebi]

Let's remove all tactics, all class uniqueness, all map shortcuts (vs jump) etc...

 

Cause PVP isn't as dull and boring enough as it is?

[halfhourofpower]

The metagame will shift, regardless of whether we make any changes or not. A stealth class can just sit on the ledge and people can pit dive and just throw it up the ledge and cap. Be more creative within the system, don't just jump to nerfs.

[Zunayson]

Let's remove all tactics, all class uniqueness, all map shortcuts (vs jump) etc...

 

Cause PVP isn't as dull and boring enough as it is?

 

Yes. Without differences in class, what's the point of classes being mechanically different?? Why not just be able to choose different stories, ships, companions, etc, but have all the same exact abilities? Different classes will excel at different roles with different utilities (Unless you're an operative, lol!) and abilities.

 

UNTIL THIS POST HAS A DECENT REBUTTAL, I WIN THE THREAD.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Zunayson

[kalexkhan]

I'm curious about the practical applications of a stealth healer in hutt ball since you brought it up, and some examples of why a respectively comparative class like a sorc healer isn't more favorable?

 

The unique things about many classes and makeups are truthfully not all that impressive. I suppose all we can do is hope new maps showcase new features that may for example, make stealth healers "flavor of the month".Particularly since it's obvious force users are more useful on a map and game like hutt all...

Edited March 1, 2012 by kalexkhan

[rolotomasi]

come on force user, close your eyes and imagine. which ones makes the game more fun & challenging?

 

you still can use the skill to position yourself. just can't do it with the ball.

[longgrassgrows]

Not the same mate, but good try at being bad.

 

just like DOT interrupting and force speed are the same...good job kidding yourself

Edited March 1, 2012 by longgrassgrows

[ulukinatme]

That's a moronic statement "you should stop focusing on the overpowered nature of some classes in a warfront, and focus on you not having any overpowered abilities in other warfronts"

 

I love that logic "You should stop focusing on the Bright Wizard in warhammer who has an ability that if you throw it on a target being healed, it'll wipe your entire teams healers in about 6 seconds flat, and instead focus on the fact you don't have it, and have something remarkably less powerful, because ya know.. I have skillz playing my BW"

 

"you should stop focusing on the fact my Pyromancer in Rift can one shot your character, and focus on the fact that you can stealth"

 

Such horrible horrible logic on your part.

 

Not that I ever played the horrible game that is Warhammer...but, you're going to compare a class in Rift that can 1 shot a character, and a class in Warhammer that can wipe an entire team in 6 seconds....to the TOR Sorc? Such horrible horrible logic on your part.

 

Every class has abilities that another class finds OP. It just happens to be that Sorcs are your kryptonite. I enjoy PVPing on my Merc just as much as I do on my Sorc, and I don't find any one ability to be more overpowering than another. I actually enjoy playing my Marauder the most and find it more effective for scoring than the Sorc.

[Xsorus]

A. No, I mean that different classes excel at different things. My Jedi Knight is obviously underpowered because I can't heal AND damage. Okay, find "My ____ is obviously underpowered because I can't have a ____ and a _____ ."

 

B. Sigh... No class BUT THE PT has a PULL and a LEAP, SPEC'D OR NOT. PERIOD. FACT. No class can heal AND stealth but the operative. No class can tank and stealth but the 'Sin. No class has _____ and ____ but ________ . Each class has some form of utility in CC and in roll. I'll list a few down below. But Inquisitors must SPEC to get the root. More madness than lightning on my server, so the root is rare. MERC KB IS THE MOST POWERFUL IN THE GAME. arguable to whether the sniper's Cover Pulse is better (15m/20m I think? More force, so elevation change makes a BIG difference). It's much better than the 10 m Overload.

 

Merc: Heals and the best AoE Knockback + 1 min PvE blind (8 seconds in PvP)

PT: Pull on AC, Leap on spec, Snare/KB immunity on Spec, tanking.

 

Sniper: HAHAHAHAHAHA. KB, FULL CC IMMUNITY, LEAP IMMUNITY!

Operative: Heals and stealth. 1 min Mezz, 8 seconds in PvP. Best burst damage from stealth.

 

Sentinel: Guarded by the Force. Leap on class, second leap separate CD on Spec, AoE blind mezz on AC, that is all.

Guardian: Leap on class, friendly leap on AC, Single most powerful knockback (Single target only) resetting leap, Separate leap on spec, tanking.

 

Sorc: Speed on class, KB on class, Root on KB on spec, healing

'Sin: Stealth and tank, Pull on spec, Speed on class

 

No two of those classes are complete repeats. I didn't name sniper because nobody likes them. ****, my main is a sniper.

 

Oh good lord, you're really just asking for it

 

AOE knockbacks = Snipers (Requires Cover, has a root, but is a ***** to aim), Mercs (Has a Snare), Assassin (Doesn't have a snare, but they can apply a snare before punting you thats 18 seconds in duration), Sorc (has a root, and there are a crap ton of sorcs with this, don't even try and pull that bs) Who wins in this case? the Sorc, because Root is > then Mercs, it doesn't matter how far ya knockback someone as you only have to knock them off the bloody ledge.

 

Single Target Knockbacks - Juggies, and Mercs, Again.. Juggies vastly superior in this case

 

Leaps - Juggies have 3 Technically, one is a Friendly leap no less, Powertech's have 1 Leap, and Marauders have 1 leap (who can get a less coolodown then powertech's)

 

Speed - Marauders/Sorcs/Assassins have super speed, Powertech's get a 30% version that basically is spint while in combat and gives immunities, but ya don't get a leap if ya go that spec.

 

Pulls - Powertech's and Assassins, Think Powertech's is better as i don't think Assassin has the immobilize with theres.

 

am I missing anything there?

 

It's clear that Force users are vastly superior in all cases to the non force users.. but ya know what would balance it? Disabling speeds/leaps/pulls of the friendly ball carrier.

 

This would make all classes equal, with Tanks being slightly better ball carriers cause they're beefier. you'd actually have to pass the ball, Not just get pulled because ya got knocked off.

 

I can understand this might be scary to the less skilled players, ya know.. being on equal terms to other classes not graced with multiple movement abilities, But trust me, it gets better...

[Huaracocha]

Amen.

 

I just had a game last night where the Imperials were so bad.... in Voidstar they couldn't even make it to the first door... or even close to the first door. Played again and got the same Imperial team but this time Huttball... they actually won the game (barely). They had 7 Inquisitors and 1 BH.

 

Why? We're they skillfull at all? Hell no. Sprint > pull > Sprint > pull > Sprint > pull. You get anywhere near their Inq pack and they chain knockback you while sprinting away from you and pulling past any freakin obstacle that would stop a normal class. Did they even remotely kill anyone 1v1 or get anyone close to death on our side? Hell no... they would just knockback and sprint away and pull their way to victory.

 

No this is not great strategy. This is class abuse. I know for a fact there's a bunch of 10 year old Sorc's out there thinking 'hey that was skill on their side... that was strategy'. No freakin way it was. Your just bad needing a OP class to actually win a game... pass the ball like everyone else.

 

You should NOT be able to Force SPeed with the ball.... pass the ball.

You should NOT be able to pull a ally ball carrier at all.... pass the ball.

You should NOT be able to Force Leap of any kind with the ball... pass the ball.

 

Oh wait your a class that can speed through any firepit without taking any damage leaving entire teams behind you and then get pulled to the goal line... yea... that's skill right there.

 

This!

 

But then people would need to understand that huttball != WSG.

 

As for all the rubbish about homogenising classes blah blah... how does nerfing the ball carrier take anything away from class mechanics? Maybe because having to use force sprint / pull / leaps to get into position to receive the ball rather than just legging it with the ball or yanking the ball carrier would actually require a modicum of skill, strategy and team-work people don't like the idea?

[Xsorus]

Yes. Without differences in class, what's the point of classes being mechanically different?? Why not just be able to choose different stories, ships, companions, etc, but have all the same exact abilities? Different classes will excel at different roles with different utilities (Unless you're an operative, lol!) and abilities.

 

UNTIL THIS POST HAS A DECENT REBUTTAL, I WIN THE THREAD.

 

Yea, because we all know the fact you have multiple pulls and movement options as a force user while carrying the ball, or supporting the ball carrier is what makes your class different from every other class..

 

I mean bloody hell, Imagine if a map didn't have a ball.. or pits or anything, and you were forced to be like every other class.. I mean that would just be mind boggling and scary.

[Xsorus]

Not that I ever played the horrible game that is Warhammer...but, you're going to compare a class in Rift that can 1 shot a character, and a class in Warhammer that can wipe an entire team in 6 seconds....to the TOR Sorc? Such horrible horrible logic on your part.

 

Every class has abilities that another class finds OP. It just happens to be that Sorcs are your kryptonite. I enjoy PVPing on my Merc just as much as I do on my Sorc, and I don't find any one ability to be more overpowering than another. I actually enjoy playing my Marauder the most and find it more effective for scoring than the Sorc.

 

*boggle* it's like you have no grasp of the concept that force users being overpowered in huttball is not "kryptonite" to every other class, but a mechanic problem in the warfront itself.

 

Hey, i know.. lets add firepits and crap to The Civil War map.. cause ya know.. if ya don't have those your class can't be kryptonite to every other class am i right *grin*

[Dakan]

Complain, complain, complain, complain, complain.

 

Huttball is just fine the way it is.

 

No need to nerf/buff anyone's classes/skills/abilities.

 

I've seen Huttball matches won with all sorts of different tactics, tricks and strategies.

 

Why ruin the best WZ (hell, the best instanced PvP in any game to date)?

 

The OP is just another exaggerator, like 99% of the posters on these forums.

[Xsorus]

Complain, complain, complain, complain, complain.

 

Huttball is just fine the way it is.

 

No need to nerf/buff anyone's classes/skills/abilities.

 

I've seen Huttball matches won with all sorts of different tactics, tricks and strategies.

 

Why ruin the best WZ (hell, the best instanced PvP in any game to date)?

 

The OP is just another exaggerator, like 99% of the posters on these forums.

 

Yea.. no need to make classes equal in a warfront, and require a actual amount of skill to play, Lets just have sorcs pull people up who couldn't position themselves properly, because ya know.. that's skill being the only class in the game with a friendly pull.

[Zunayson]

Oh good lord, you're really just asking for it

 

AOE knockbacks = Snipers (Requires Cover, has a root, but is a ***** to aim), Mercs (Has a Snare), Assassin (Doesn't have a snare, but they can apply a snare before punting you thats 18 seconds in duration), Sorc (has a root, and there are a crap ton of sorcs with this, don't even try and pull that bs) Who wins in this case? the Sorc, because Root is > then Mercs, it doesn't matter how far ya knockback someone as you only have to knock them off the bloody ledge.

 

Single Target Knockbacks - Juggies, and Mercs, Again.. Juggies vastly superior in this case Yeah and my Damage marauder is superior in damage than my medicine operative. I don't see the difference/

 

Leaps - Juggies have 3 Technically, one is a Friendly leap no less, Powertech's have 1 Leap, and Marauders have 1 leap (who can get a less coolodown then powertech's) By 3 seconds it spec'd. PTs are mostly 10m range, not 4m, but still get some nice damage from 4m. MOST of their damage attacks are 10m. Fact.

 

Speed - Marauders/Sorcs/Assassins have super speed, Powertech's get a 30% version that basically is spint while in combat and gives immunities, but ya don't get a leap if ya go that spec. Once again, Just as my Dmg Marauder is better at killing and my medicine op is better at healing, note that the KB and snare immunity + Sprint is good for Kiting, denying KBs in huttball. Leap is better in OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. If you're about to get knockoff, you can leap back up, yes. Then you get KBed by the next Sorc in line. The immunity counters it all.

 

Pulls - Powertech's and Assassins, Think Powertech's is better as i don't think Assassin has the immobilize with theres.

 

am I missing anything there? Yes, read the green text until you get it. Also, the sin's pull works on friendlies. The PT's doesn't.. or at least I never got it to work for me.. O.o

 

It's clear that Force users are vastly superior in all cases to the non force users.. but ya know what would balance it? Disabling speeds/leaps/pulls of the friendly ball carrier.

 

This would make all classes equal, with Tanks being slightly better ball carriers cause they're beefier. you'd actually have to pass the ball, Not just get pulled because ya got knocked off. I don't care how much - even if by a small amount - 2 is a bigger number than 1. But 1 < 2, and 1 =/= 2. Slightly better is NOT equal. So now you'll make a thread about TankBall or something...

 

I can understand this might be scary to the less skilled players, ya know.. being on equal terms to other classes not graced with multiple movement abilities, But trust me, it gets better...It's skill to play YOUR CLASS. As in the classes are different. As in the classes are better at certain things while others at other different things.

 

So yeah. Now my operative is underpowered because he can't taunt and tank. OMG PUT ON EQUAL PLAYING FIELD PL0X.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Zunayson

[ulukinatme]

*boggle* it's like you have no grasp of the concept that force users being overpowered in huttball is not "kryptonite" to every other class, but a mechanic problem in the warfront itself.

 

Hey, i know.. lets add firepits and crap to The Civil War map.. cause ya know.. if ya don't have those your class can't be kryptonite to every other class am i right *grin*

 

*boggle* It's like you've never played a Force User in Huttball and realized that they're not overpowered because they have their own strengths and weaknesses just like any other class...*grin*

 

You're seriously going to bring fire pits into this discussion now? Last I checked force users die to fire pits just as every other class does. Not only can non-force users stun force users and anyone else on fire pits, but they can also knock them into the pits and grapple targets into them. Fire pits do not belong in this discussion. The only class that is mostly immune to them is a Warrior/Knight that can jump to a target past the pits...but thats your own team's fault if you let it happen...and it still doesn't mean they can't be knocked back or grappled into the pit after the fact.

Edited March 1, 2012 by ulukinatme

[caultonpos]

i am a sorc and i basically win 90% of huttball purely due to my force pull.

 

I dread to think what a 50s huttball with mostly sorcs.

 

I think the only thing to do is if two sorcs pull the carrier then the ball carrier is pulled apart and instantly killed.

[Zunayson]

Yea, because we all know the fact you have multiple pulls and movement options as a force user while carrying the ball, or supporting the ball carrier is what makes your class different from every other class..

 

I mean bloody hell, Imagine if a map didn't have a ball.. or pits or anything, and you were forced to be like every other class.. I mean that would just be mind boggling and scary.

 

You're asking to "Balance" these "OP" classes only because they perform better than you in Huttball. First of all, Huttball is not the only Warzone. PvP is also not the only gameplay. This is will have a lot of ramifications not only in PvP - but in PvE as well.

 

So what you basically did was contradict your Original Post, sorry, it's not decent. I'm still winning the thread on this 3-cap.

[zizzefex]

Why ruin the best WZ (hell, the best instanced PvP in any game to date)?

 

If by best you mean the absolute worst piece of **** map ever made for any PvP type combat you would be correct. Only a Sorc/Sage would actually think the map was anything short of terrible.

[Zunayson]

If by best you mean the absolute worst piece of **** map ever made for any PvP type combat you would be correct. Only a Sorc/Sage would actually think the map was anything short of terrible.

 

I'm an operative and I like it because it's less open and more people are susceptible to kills, and harder to come to the rescue due to obstacles.

 

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/4/825ae943-578d-4202-929c-2c2c539fcd01.jpg

[Briljin]

Please remove all classes and make us all the same. This way all the QQ'ers can finally shut the hell up.

 

Thanks.