If snipers are so good....

[arcadeboredom]

Snipers hard class to play?

Haha try marauder. Snipers are easy mode compared to melee classes I find.

[michaelra]

I love my Marksmanship Sniper ^^ (reached level 50) especially in PvP and Flashpoints.

[Jaxtaro]

I actually think I have it figured out what the dislocation is between sniper factions. I play on one of the top servers population and pvp wise in the game (Helm of Graush), and my performance ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS is dictated by the skill of my opponents. There's some seriously good pvpers on my server, so hearing stories of snipers who are NOT being stalked by BM level Ops/Marauders/Mercs is actually a complete surprise to me.

 

The #1 key to high scores at the end of a WZ is how long you're alive. There is no other factor more important. One thing I've seen is that a lot of these guys who talk about their pro-gaming, will always mention "The off chance of someone chasing me".... this isn't an "off chance" on my server I can tell you, this is the norm, and the only thing even that makes this class playable under these circumstances is when using a mobile spec such as lethality.

 

I'm also of the opinion that there is no way to make the claim that snipers are "good damage" with no analysis tools of any kind available, no logging, no parsing, no nothing, just a hunch, because some dude can sit unmolested against relatively crappy teams and do a lot of damage.

 

This is particularly true when comparing setup times, mobility sacrifices, defensive sacrifices, skill timers, and prerequisites with those of other classes. There is no way to do any kind of comprehensive balance analysis without the ability to log data.

 

Finally, the idea that it's "OK" in an MMO for one class to have a significantly higher skillcap than another to achieve any sort of equal performance is absurd, and shows no understanding of class balance in any way, shape, or form.

[Crankyhobo]

I actually think I have it figured out what the dislocation is between sniper factions. I play on one of the top servers population and pvp wise in the game (Helm of Graush), and my performance ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS is dictated by the skill of my opponents. There's some seriously good pvpers on my server, so hearing stories of snipers who are NOT being stalked by BM level Ops/Marauders/Mercs is actually a complete surprise to me.

 

I think you're on to something there, during peak on my server there are lots of BMs on both teams and they enjoy hunting snipers.

 

Without leap/run its very difficult to escape when being smashed by multiple people; but if they're important players i am happy to keep them away from the action for as long as possible. For example, if you're going to die anyway in huttball then jump into the pit area and LOS so they have to follow you to finish the job and then spend the next 30 seconds running the long way back to re-join the action. Which means if they want to kill you, it will put them out of position / tactical disadvantage. The smarter ones tend to factor the opportunity cost of every action.

 

Having said that, its often its a blessing in hut-ball to die because its faster than running across the map to defend, or if you're forced to deplete all energy in a clutch situation then wishing for death because its a faster way to replenish it. Particularly if you're within sight range of the re-spawn indicator on the door so you know if you'll have to wait or get let out straight away.

 

But this is just making the best of a bad situation.

 

I want to add that i have observed other snipers on my server very closely and its interesting to me the lengths people will go to stay alive and avoid alerting people to their presence, to the point of making themselves useless. Sometimes the best course of action is to jump in the middle of 6 enemies like rambo and throw up your ballistic shield and entrench then die as slowly as possible.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Crankyhobo

[Slurmez]

I'm sure not going to say I am a great sniper but I have played a lot of MMO's. The mark of an overpowered class is that everyone plays it. Conversely, when very few play the class it generally means that the class has some problems.

 

I'll take your word that you constantly top the charts but I haven't seen that kind of success for snipers on my server.

 

No people gravitate to whats easy mode and snipers are not, a mediocre player on a BH/trooper will be effective, a mediocre player on a sniper will suck donkey ding dongs. Doesnt mean the class is bad, just requires an effective pilot.

 

Also in spite of peoples deluded self image the vast majority of players are firmly mediocre

[bumpy_anderson]

I actually think I have it figured out what the dislocation is between sniper factions. I play on one of the top servers population and pvp wise in the game (Helm of Graush), and my performance ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS is dictated by the skill of my opponents. There's some seriously good pvpers on my server, so hearing stories of snipers who are NOT being stalked by BM level Ops/Marauders/Mercs is actually a complete surprise to me.

 

The #1 key to high scores at the end of a WZ is how long you're alive. There is no other factor more important. One thing I've seen is that a lot of these guys who talk about their pro-gaming, will always mention "The off chance of someone chasing me".... this isn't an "off chance" on my server I can tell you, this is the norm, and the only thing even that makes this class playable under these circumstances is when using a mobile spec such as lethality.

 

I'm also of the opinion that there is no way to make the claim that snipers are "good damage" with no analysis tools of any kind available, no logging, no parsing, no nothing, just a hunch, because some dude can sit unmolested against relatively crappy teams and do a lot of damage.

 

This is particularly true when comparing setup times, mobility sacrifices, defensive sacrifices, skill timers, and prerequisites with those of other classes. There is no way to do any kind of comprehensive balance analysis without the ability to log data.

 

Finally, the idea that it's "OK" in an MMO for one class to have a significantly higher skillcap than another to achieve any sort of equal performance is absurd, and shows no understanding of class balance in any way, shape, or form.

 

I agree with some of this. Sure, how much damage/success you have lies partly on how good the opponent is; however, it also relies on how good your team is as well. Not sure about you, but I don't run unless I have 3 other guild members to run with. As far as being stalked by the other classes go, you have to deal with it. I win most and lose some.

 

I agree with your second paragraph. However, if you want to live longer, make sure you are running with a good healer.

 

In my opinion, data logging shouldn't be necessary to find out whether your damage is "good" or not, lol. I'm sure someone will come out with a dmg parser so you can crunch the numbers on every move you make. I agree, they are neat to play around with. Personally, I don't need one to help me realize that I'm melting through other players like hot butter.

 

The sniper may not have all of the toys that other classes have, but we can get the job done. Well, let me say that some snipers are getting the job done. I ran with a sniper last night that most certainly didn't.

[Crankyhobo]

I'm also of the opinion that there is no way to make the claim that snipers are "good damage" with no analysis tools of any kind available, no logging, no parsing, no nothing, just a hunch, because some dude can sit unmolested against relatively crappy teams and do a lot of damage.

 

There are a lot of factors and you're right. Sometimes i think I'm posting good damage or kill rates but its meaningless without something to compare it with. So I try to compare against what i see others accomplish, % change in hit-points when allies are shooting the same target, observing others 1v1, and seeing damage numbers scroll against me, dueling. Its all guess work but we're definitely not excelling in the comparisons i make. A combat log will help but it isnt going to instantly solve the proof problem like some people think it will.

 

Finally, the idea that it's "OK" in an MMO for one class to have a significantly higher skillcap than another to achieve any sort of equal performance is absurd, and shows no understanding of class balance in any way, shape, or form.

 

Agreed, and also I don't see the point in the defender faction coming on the forums and arguing 'its fine, if used in a certain way, with a certain build, with a certain skill level, when the stars and moon align, on a leap year'. That's not balance. There is nobody calling for sniper to be nurfed (except the odd troll once a month who's trying to crack a joke). That speaks volumes.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Crankyhobo

[Dasamukha]

PvP has been talked about enough that most people who frequent our little corner of the world know about the issues.

 

PvE and leveling. We probably don't talk enough about how to level a sniper effectively and the general overall strategies. I sometimes forget that people might be starting this game fresh and may not have years of mmo experience.

 

Lets start at the beginning. MMO's almost always revolve what we commonly refer to as the "holy trinity." Tanks, Healer and Dps. Tanks stand in front and are the focus point for the damage. Tanking classes are those advance classes which are designed to mitigate damage better than others. Healers or healing classes are specialists medics ect which can heal damage during combat. Finally dps, is the term we use for damage dealing classes. Dps is short hand for "damage per second" but the term has expanded to become both a noun and a verb.

 

For example. "I do better dps than you." and "Lets have all the dps move over there." Two commonly used sentences where dps is a verb or a noun depending on the context. (Ain't English great.)

 

For the new player, (not a noob), Your sniper is a dps class. It wears medium armor and is designed to mostly deal damage and does not mitigate or take damage well. Additionally snipers don't have inherent in combat healing abilities. Sometimes you will see the term "pure dps" class. Meaning they don't have the option to do anything other than damage. Pure dps can't fill a tank or healer role.

 

In SWTOR you are provided companions. Many of your companions can fulfill other roles. Kaliyo is a tanking class. She has abilities to attract the mob or enemy attention in pve and the ability to absorb or mitigate damage better than your character. Two important considerations about Kaliyo. She is not all powerful. She will not hold up forever, and she performs better the more advanced her equipment. Ignore her equipment and she becomes less and less effective. Later you will get Dr. Loken, (Taris) and he is a healer. Once you get Loken you will decide whether you like having a tank or a healer. I preferred Loken.

 

SWTOR mobs (monsters) come in three varieties. Normal or standard, Strong and Elite.

 

Normal have less hit points and generally fairly straight forward abilities. They either stand at range and shoot or they charge into melee range and attack. They generally come in packs of three. The standard method for handling this is equally straight forward. Send in Kaliyo. Dps her target or the target that charges in to melee range. Then work your way through the other two. If Kaliyo dies rez her at the end. Heal up and go to the next pack (pull).

 

Strong mobs have more hit points and may or may not have extra abilities. The strong mob is identified by the silver symbol above his name. They come either solo or with a weaker (normal) mob most of the time. In this situation, put Kaliyo on the strong mob, and you start burning down the weaker mob. Kill it then kill the stronger mob.

 

General rule of thumb is to work weak to stronger. The less things shooting or beating on you or Kali the better. Even if you wipe, (die or defeated) you have taken out one or two and the encounter (pull) gets easier.

 

When fighting elite level mobs, it is generally solo, one on one. Send in Kali, pick a solid firing position and good luck. Kali is most likely going to die. Once that happens, you will need use shield probes, med packs, and use flashes, stuns, leg shots, cover pulse and everything else to keep the elite from using its abilities while you use your abilities. Elite mobs are designed to be hard. Avoid them where possible. Prepare for them when you know you will face one.

 

A couple of follow-up thoughts. In SWTOR you have three basic quests. Class quests, planet quests and bonus series quests.

 

Class quests are fairly mandatory, meaning you need to have completed them before going on to the next planet. Planet quests tell and have you participate in the basic story of the planet. Meet and kill the local inhabitants. Bonus series come after most of the planet quests are completed.

 

Snipers perform better (are easier) if you perform and complete the class, planet and bonus series early and often. An underpowered sniper has difficulty against higher level mobs. Experienced mmo players can still perform. For the new player try to complete all the starter world and the two follow on world quests. Mix in some space missions and do a few rounds of pvp. Try and stay a level ahead of the mobs of your current planet.

 

Snipers have certain levels where the game's difficulty increases a little faster than the sniper's power. In particular, don't get discouraged if you can't defeat the end of Act I. That encounter is very challenging, and will require you to learn and apply all of your ability and skill. For example you will need to break line of sight. You will need to put Kaliyo on passive a time or two. You will need to interrupt a cast, or a heal.

 

You may need to grind out a level or two doing pvp to make the encounter easier. The end of the Act quests and fights are designed to be fun and challenging. Don't get discouraged just because you are bound and determined to move on, and find you wipe repeatedly on that boss.

 

Finally your single most important piece of equipment is your sniper rifle. If it an orange, keep the barrel up to date, (use the highest level barrel for your level). Always keep it upgraded.

 

I hope this is useful.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Dasamukha

[PatrickTheLama]

 

PvE and leveling. We probably don't talk enough about how to level a sniper effectively and the general overall strategies. I sometimes forget that people might be starting this game fresh and may not have years of mmo experience.

...

 

General rule of thumb is to work weak to stronger. The less things shooting or beating on you or Kali the better. Even if you wipe, (die or defeated) you have taken out one or two and the encounter (pull) gets easier.

 

When fighting elite level mobs, it is generally solo, one on one. Send in Kali, pick a solid firing position and good luck. Kali is most likely going to die. Once that happens, you will need use shield probes, med packs, and use flashes, stuns, leg shots, cover pulse and everything else to keep the elite from using its abilities while you use your abilities. Elite mobs are designed to be hard. Avoid them where possible. Prepare for them when you know you will face one.

 

 

I hope this is useful.

 

Indeed it is, you are a regular Mace Windu.

 

I think that SWTOR is going to pull in a huge batch of players who have never played MMORPGs before, and who may even be new to basic FPS game-play. They've heard of WoW and they love Star Wars, and here's a chance to jump onto something like that while it's still new. These players are going to be so inexperienced and their learning curve so flat that the notion of what an "average" player is may be significantly downgraded. This won't affect the places where the skilled players cross swords, but it will affect the perception of the 1-50 levelling process and also, I think, the way that Bioware present and support the game. There's presumably room for everyone, but what I see now is a subculture that is strongly tilted towards the top-tier/pro/hardcore gamers. That's OK, but I expect to see a whole different SWTOR subculture emerge, the New Player scene. I think it will be much huger than the industry is used too, and if the classic gamers scene can't find room for it, it may surface in a whole different place -- in the Star Wars fan culture, for example.

 

My point being? Not much except that the "obvious" may not be quite as "obvious" anymore, and that experienced players with an ability and willing to explain fundamental MMORPG tactics and principles may find their services in high demand.

 

But enough of this vague rambling, since specifics is the way to go:

 

- How important would you say it is to come in with a comparable (equal or very close) level rating when doing missions with bosses and elites? Is it a must? I stick closely to the story quests and am a bit lazy towards pickup missions, which means that I tend to be 3-4 notches underlevelled. This saves me some time in total gameplay but may not be a viable strategy in the long haul? How do people play it, are they even over-levelled?

 

- As a Sniper I see "stealth" and invisibility as natural attributes, and basically enjoy to sneak around looking for unguarded backdoors, climbing walls rather than pulling aggro at the front gate etc. The game worlds allow for quite a bit of this behavior, which of course reduces the number of combat situations I get involved in, and I view this as an advantage. Is this a strategy that is good for the class, or mostly a waste of time? How do you play it, if on a solo mission -- a straight line thru whatever mobs there may be, or a more evasive and slower approach?

[bumpy_anderson]

PvP has been talked about enough that most people who frequent our little corner of the world know about the issues.

 

This is the best post I've seen all day!

[tkshinoda]

Playing a sniper is like making fine art, it requires time and dedication

 

while every other class requires a face and a keyboard.

[agamemnon-]

When I started playing the sniper at lvl 10 in PvP, and my first shot ever was a 2.5 crit against a lvl 30 Jedi Knight, I thought the Sniper was a little OP. I'm a casual (read: not ver good of a) player, but I'm averaging abou32 kills and 4 deaths a game. Only three possibilities

 

1) Sniper is already a bit over powered

 

2) All that spec and game play info that abound on this forum has sunk in

 

3) People just underestimate the sniper to the point that snipers can dominate (happened to me a couple times, when 2 snipers and an operative pretty much carried our team).

[Greyfeld]

I actually think I have it figured out what the dislocation is between sniper factions. I play on one of the top servers population and pvp wise in the game (Helm of Graush), and my performance ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS is dictated by the skill of my opponents. There's some seriously good pvpers on my server, so hearing stories of snipers who are NOT being stalked by BM level Ops/Marauders/Mercs is actually a complete surprise to me.

 

The #1 key to high scores at the end of a WZ is how long you're alive. There is no other factor more important. One thing I've seen is that a lot of these guys who talk about their pro-gaming, will always mention "The off chance of someone chasing me".... this isn't an "off chance" on my server I can tell you, this is the norm, and the only thing even that makes this class playable under these circumstances is when using a mobile spec such as lethality.

 

I'm also of the opinion that there is no way to make the claim that snipers are "good damage" with no analysis tools of any kind available, no logging, no parsing, no nothing, just a hunch, because some dude can sit unmolested against relatively crappy teams and do a lot of damage.

 

This is particularly true when comparing setup times, mobility sacrifices, defensive sacrifices, skill timers, and prerequisites with those of other classes. There is no way to do any kind of comprehensive balance analysis without the ability to log data.

 

Finally, the idea that it's "OK" in an MMO for one class to have a significantly higher skillcap than another to achieve any sort of equal performance is absurd, and shows no understanding of class balance in any way, shape, or form.

 

Fantastic posts. A lot of great points I couldn't have made better myself. The part about differing skill caps especially holds true, and I can't help but grind my teeth every time I see somebody excuse complaints about a class because, "You're just not good enough to do it right."

 

I think that some people get so caught up in defending their character choice that they don't realize that the people who perform really well in a bad class would perform even better while playing anything else.

[Game-Hermit]

Reason number two is that Snipers are the hardest class to play.

 

People say that about every class. If you see claims like that as votes, then the general consensus seems to be that sentinel/marauder are actually the hardest. For the record, I don't play either one.

[Greyfeld]

People say that about every class. If you see claims like that as votes, then the general consensus seems to be that sentinel/marauder are actually the hardest. For the record, I don't play either one.

 

I think that most people agree that sentinel/marauder is actually the most complicated. But they also have a fantastic payoff if you can master them. On the other hand, Snipers have a very steep skill curve, and still don't manage to bring anything to the table that you couldn't already get with a Mercenary or another Sorcerer, which are a hell of a lot easier to play.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Greyfeld

[XyriusSES]

because people are horrible. The end.

[wrexcursia]

I think that most people agree that sentinel/marauder is actually the most complicated. But they also have a fantastic payoff if you can master them. On the other hand, Snipers have a very steep skill curve, and still don't manage to bring anything to the table that you couldn't already get with a Mercenary or another Sorcerer, which are a hell of a lot easier to play.

 

a mercenary can't interrupt, instant mez, AOE mez, become immune to all CC, become immune to interrupts, root (only CC that works on full resolve!), instantly lower a focus target's armor by 20%, and for area denial orbital strike is worlds ahead of death from above.

 

a sorcerer ALSO can't AOE mez, but I think there's a talent to make it instant. They also can't root, their knockback isn't as powerful as ours, they can't root, they have no armor debuff at all. they also can't burst down soft targets as fast as us.

 

I'm not saying that they don't have different strengths, but it's silly to claim that either of them can bring all of a sniper's tools to the table. some of the things I listed neither class has.

 

Furthermore, for all the touting of their healing, have you ever SEEN a dps merc/sorc heal? it's pathetic. I'm not going to go so far as to say it's useless, but it isn't anything to write home about. a merc tosses a crappy offspec heal, a sniper can just interrupt whatever was going to do the damage in the first place.

 

while I haven't played sorcerer extensively, an arsenel merc has 2 heals, one of which has an approx 8 sec cooldown, and the other costs 25 heat and can't be talented cheaper except deep in healing and that's still only one cast immediately following healing scan.

[Thebigkabooa]

I like the sentiment in this post, but as usual specific cases are even more useful for us who are trying to learn the ways of the Sniper... The thinking man's class.

 

So let me ask this: those few who understand how to play the Sniper class are doing WHAT things that set them apart? For example?

 

And those many who do not understand the class are doing WHAT fundamental errors? For example?

 

I am by no means a great pvp sniper.

 

However, I'd argue the key aspects are simple enough to understand.

 

A) Target selection

B) Positioning

C) Escape

 

Target selection is simple enough. Prioritizing who has to die first. Snipers tend to revolve around burst rotations in pvp; Ambush instant snipes, Cull rotations, etc. You can chunk a tank, or even a melee dps, but odds are, you're going to decimate the healer keeping them up. Knowing who to shoot and when is as important as how hard you're shooting.

 

Snipers. Root themselves. To be effective. Because of this base concept of the class, rooting yourself in the wrong spot will get you killed. Lethality, and the MM/Engineering hybrid spec alleviate this by allowing more of your punch to be done on the fly, but a Sniper is a class with short CD, short duration escapes and defenses; Being in the wrong place at the wrong time punishes them more than other classes who have the longer CD but longer duration fail safes.

 

I cannot imagine a single pvp spec that doesn't take improved Flashbang / grenades for pvp. 45 second cd aoe 'sleep' for 8 seconds is stupidly powerful for personal / group defense, and 3 second frag grenades means no one is ever getting that cap point or Voidstar door without killing you first; Usually enough time for the door to get reinforced.

 

Crippling shot aids in escape from melee, or rooting a key target long enough to set up a quick combo or for your team to arrive. Shield Probe is a !@#%ing godsend for 1v1. Entrench almost completely prevents someone from stopping your damage, a melee stun to get away from those pesky knights, etc, etc.

 

I would argue mastery of the sniper in pvp isn't based around how hard you hit; It's a factor, and 4-5k crits are sexy as all get out, but the difference between a good sniper and a beast sniper is, in my opinion, the mastery of the utility and escape abilities they possess, and knowing when and where to place your shots.

[DrekorSilverfang]

Because most Sniper PLAYERS are bad.

 

The class is alright. Not the best, not the worst. But it takes effort to play well, and people don't like putting in effort when they can just Tracer Missile their way to victory instead.

 

Agreed. You see lots of snipers in the 10-49 bracket and it's quite obvious they are extraordinary bad. The sniper, like the marauder, is not kind to people that are not at least somewhat competent. It's not too difficult to get the hang of how to do damage but using our utility is something else all together. Things like ensuring to refresh ballistic dampers, cycling CC to keep a melee off you, proper KB directions, saving, timing and getting the right direction on ambush KB. Most importantly though is positioning, I've gotten caught before but when I'm not I can usually shut teams out of huttball all on my own. We make amazing defenders and mid controllers. Even if we do get caught you can lead people on a merry chase(at one point I did so long enough for my team to score twice, it was... amusing).

[fedxx]

First: There are a few more snipers showing up in pvp war zones. Once upon a time I would go all night without seeing one. Now there are one or two others in the war zone.

 

Second: Snipers were and still are a pain in the *** to level. See class quest at end of Act 1 for an example. The new generation are probably alts.

 

Third: They don't use a light saber. Enough said.

 

Fourth: No one started out leveling a sniper to use lethality. We all wanted the cool droids or the super massive one hit, one kill. (MM or Eng) Only recently did experience tell us that lethality is cool.

 

Fifth: Watch a fully geared lethality specced sniper focus fire on an undergeared character and your jaw will drop. Dart --> Grenade --> Weakening Blast --> Cull. = Dead. If you don't have a heal on the way before the weakening blast is finished, that character is gone my friend. Gone.

 

Lastly: After spending the time to level and pvp through the brackets I get the chance to play a sniper and do 300K damage with 50+ kills and 10+ killing blows, with more than one solo kills. Everyone else has to try to catch up. Catching up is a long and painful journey, my friends, long and painful.

 

 

Haha i could not have said it better my self. it is true trying to catch up is long and long enough that going up against BM geared people , make it even worse

[JClawson]

Sometimes the best course of action is to jump in the middle of 6 enemies like rambo and throw up your ballistic shield and entrench then die as slowly as possible.

 

I do this routinely and it is an amazing strat for supporting your team. Pop that huge shield of yours and instantly every dps in eyesight will focus in on you ignoring everything else going on. It is actually sort of surprising how well an eng sniper can tank when you run your cooldowns.

[Greyfeld]

a mercenary can't interrupt, instant mez, AOE mez, become immune to all CC, become immune to interrupts, root (only CC that works on full resolve!), instantly lower a focus target's armor by 20%, and for area denial orbital strike is worlds ahead of death from above.

 

Heals and heavy armor. That's really all that needs to be said.

 

I'm not going to quibble over individual abilities, because if every class had the same abilities, there would be no reason to play different classes. The important part of this discussion is the role each class plays. And at the end of the day, Snipers are a DPS class. Mercenaries deal approximately the same amount of single-target damage, in addition to bringing better AoE (instant and short-duration is better than a 3-second cast that only pulses once every 3 seconds, in terms of sheer utility), better damage mitigation, and the ability to self/off-heal.

 

a sorcerer ALSO can't AOE mez, but I think there's a talent to make it instant. They also can't root, their knockback isn't as powerful as ours, they can't root, they have no armor debuff at all. they also can't burst down soft targets as fast as us.

 

With a plethora of instant-cast abilities, a bubble, healing, and multiple types of CC to get out of just about any situation (Plus additional CC when specced properly. Yes, this includes an area mezz, and a root.), Sorcerers are an even better replacement for Snipers than Mercs are for the DPS role.

 

I'm not saying that they don't have different strengths, but it's silly to claim that either of them can bring all of a sniper's tools to the table. some of the things I listed neither class has.

 

See my post earlier about roles within a group. Leg Shot isn't enough to make Snipers worth more to a team than another Merc or Sorcerer.

 

Furthermore, for all the touting of their healing, have you ever SEEN a dps merc/sorc heal? it's pathetic. I'm not going to go so far as to say it's useless, but it isn't anything to write home about. a merc tosses a crappy offspec heal, a sniper can just interrupt whatever was going to do the damage in the first place.

 

I've seen it, and I have a merc of my own. Dropping behind LOS to heal off the damage that you just took is immensely useful, especially against Snipers, who have to run around the obstacle and set up their cover again before they can continue firing. Let's not forget the self-shield that cuts damage by 25% for its duration, versus the Sniper's.... what, Ballistic Shield? Yeah, get knocked out of cover and lose your damage reduction lol.

 

while I haven't played sorcerer extensively, an arsenel merc has 2 heals, one of which has an approx 8 sec cooldown, and the other costs 25 heat and can't be talented cheaper except deep in healing and that's still only one cast immediately following healing scan.

 

That's what Vent Heat is for!!

[Technohic]

because people are horrible. The end.

 

There is truth to that. I have been leveling my Sniper through warzones, and I will say if people are dumb enough to ignore me to fight that flashy sorcerer or whatever; they are making a HUGE mistake. Smart players will single me out and do their best to keep me out of cover and bounce me around.

 

Sniper has a LOT you can do to be efficient at, but most classes do if they don't get hung up on a tracer spam or something like that. I had a commando today that kept coming up to a turret I was gaurding by himself and he would try to channel, so I would charge and debilitate, ambush, explosive probe, dart, he start channeling again; flash bang snipe, frag grenade and by that time, I would bounce him off and ambush again. Had to have been the worse commando I had ever seen.

[wrexcursia]

Heals and heavy armor. That's really all that needs to be said.

 

I'm not going to quibble over individual abilities, because if every class had the same abilities, there would be no reason to play different classes. The important part of this discussion is the role each class plays. And at the end of the day, Snipers are a DPS class. Mercenaries deal approximately the same amount of single-target damage, in addition to bringing better AoE (instant and short-duration is better than a 3-second cast that only pulses once every 3 seconds, in terms of sheer utility), better damage mitigation, and the ability to self/off-heal.

 

I'm going to have to disagree on the utility aspect of death from above compared to orbital strike. Death from above is definitely better for interrupting -right now- if that's what you need to do to a group, but snipers have frag grenade if that is what they need. sniper aoe has more utility because it can both instant interrupt, and keep an entire team off a cap for an extended duration, merc's cannot do this. Also you list the merc's strengths over ours, but not ours over theirs. Snipers are absolutely better at crowd control, have a slight but not meaningless range advantage, can prevent damage to a group, become immune to CCs, interrupts, and being charged in huttball, can spec for 2 snares, one of which is AoE, furthermore they can interrupt. Having the ability to interrupt in pvp is huge. Back during the early arena seasons in wow every healer would gear for a chance to resist interrupts, and it got so prevalent they had to remove the mechanic from the game.

 

With a plethora of instant-cast abilities, a bubble, healing, and multiple types of CC to get out of just about any situation (Plus additional CC when specced properly. Yes, this includes an area mezz, and a root.), Sorcerers are an even better replacement for Snipers than Mercs are for the DPS role.

 

the area mez can't be triggered on demand, is point blank aoe rather than targeted, they wear light armor, and their snare isn't as potent as ours when used for purely CC purposes. They also can't get the aoe mez and snare in the same build. Snipers also have medium armor to the sorc's light.

 

See my post earlier about roles within a group. Leg Shot isn't enough to make Snipers worth more to a team than another Merc or Sorcerer.

 

Sniper has more than leg shot over either and in some cases both classes, as I've already pointed out. I forgot to mention that neither class has an execute mechanic, and I should hope I don't have to explain the usefulness of securing a kill, or even bringing a target down to 20% where the OTHER classes can start using their executes. (disclaimer: marauder may also have 30%)

 

I've seen it, and I have a merc of my own. Dropping behind LOS to heal off the damage that you just took is immensely useful, especially against Snipers, who have to run around the obstacle and set up their cover again before they can continue firing. Let's not forget the self-shield that cuts damage by 25% for its duration, versus the Sniper's.... what, Ballistic Shield? Yeah, get knocked out of cover and lose your damage reduction lol.

 

As a dps merc, if you have to break los to go heal yourself in group pvp, you are no longer helping your team in the fight that matters, and the person who got you low is. Furthermore in organized pvp if either a sniper or a merc is low they are probably being focused by more than one person, and if they break los on an enemy sniper (or any ranged as this argument is true vs. mercs and sorcs too) they may also break los on their own healers, and the other teams melee will just follow/kill them or let them go and go kill something else as importance dictates.

 

Now if for some reason it comes down to a 1v1, the merc has this advantage over any ranged class, but even classes that can't heal can still stall in such a way. I would argue that snipers are unique in this situation in that they can drop an orbital strike and hit something slightly out of their LoS, and in say, voidstar, force the person to stand in it to interrupt the cap they were fighting for in the first place.

 

If the sniper was defending the node, he could make getting LoS back onto him more difficult with the use of orbital strike as well.

 

That's what Vent Heat is for!!

 

 

 

final note: organized pvp also isn't about snipers fighting the other ranged classes, just as interrupts are huge, the ability to become immune to them is also huge. as a merc, try to get a cast off with a marauder or even an intelligent jugg on you.

 

The ability to impose your will on a player when they cannot do the same to you is a huge advantage. as -any- ranged dps in group pvp, if you make someone run off to go heal themselves that is a victory, they are no longer helping the group, you should switch targets.

 

also, excuse the formatting, but I don't care, the point is there.

[bumpy_anderson]

because people are horrible. The end.

 

I usually try to be nice about things, but this is true in a lot of cases.

 

Gear + Skill = Win (assuming we are talking about 50 WZs and a decent team supporting you)