Varicite Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You have to EARN the right for a fair fight. A Boxer who is 1-0 doesn't get the opportunity to fight for the Heavy Weight Title against a guy who is 44-0 even if he is just as skilled / younger / faster and could win. He pays his dues and someday when he does his due time and his record matches that of the champ he THEN has the chance to fight that fight. Everyone in favor of this medal change patch is like that fighter who is 1-0 wondering why he isn't part of that championship fight after putting in no time. I'm in favor of the medal change, and have been a BM for a little while now. I can just as easily say that everyone who isn't in favor of the medal change sucks at PvP and just wants an advantage. I don't feel that way, but it's easy to say, and that's how you come across. It wasn't hard to get BM, stop acting like it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You have to EARN the right for a fair fight. A Boxer who is 1-0 doesn't get the opportunity to fight for the Heavy Weight Title against a guy who is 44-0 even if he is just as skilled / younger / faster and could win. He pays his dues and someday when he does his due time and his record matches that of the champ he THEN has the chance to fight that fight. Everyone in favor of this medal change patch is like that fighter who is 1-0 wondering why he isn't part of that championship fight after putting in no time. That's just because there are so many of them. In mma, on the other hand, a 3-0 record fighter can fight for a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorgoth Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Imagine two there are two sprocket makers, Jim and Bob. Jim makes twice as many sprokets as Bob per hour. Should Jim get paid more? If your answer is yes, then you ought to ALSO be in favor of reward being proportional to contribution in pvp, aka NOT in favor of the patch changes. If your answer is no, congratulations, you're a communist. I thought you already got paid considerably more, by virtue of being able to turn most warzones into wins simply because of your very presence and skill? If Jim's abilities make him twice as likely to win a warzone than Bob, then unless Bob is sharing every warzone with Jim, then Jim will have more wins and hence more pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatyx Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Healers in Warzones now receive kill credit when a healed player kills an enemy. W00T!!!! Players affected by a Damage Over Time ability are no longer interrupted when interacting with objectives. sadface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisAquilus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I'm in favor of the medal change, and have been a BM for a little while now. I can just as easily say that everyone who isn't in favor of the medal change sucks at PvP and just wants an advantage. I don't feel that way, but it's easy to say, and that's how you come across. It wasn't hard to get BM, stop acting like it was. If it wasn't hard, why do we need to make it easier? Are there lots of people saying its too hard to get to and finish SWTOR's endgame? I don't think so lol... quite the opposite. I thought you already got paid considerably more, by virtue of being able to turn most warzones into wins simply because of your very presence and skill? If Jim's abilities make him twice as likely to win a warzone than Bob, then unless Bob is sharing every warzone with Jim, then Jim will have more wins and hence more pay. Wins hardly even matter now. You'll get 2k valor minumum for LOSING, which is more than I ever got for my best, most hard fought win. Edited February 28, 2012 by CanisAquilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyvoodoo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Awesome changes Bioware! Sad that there's almost no open world pvp now, unless a guild takes it upon themselves to attack an opposing factions starting area, but I'm sure true open world pvp will come with time. It seems they had to overhaul everything, take a step back and start from the drawing board with open world pvp. Either way... nice patch, this is what I needed to hear to get me to pull away from Star Craft 2 and get back to fighting the good fight. kant w8 2 kil sum punk imp betchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Eternal your example is pretty unintelligible. Try to clean it up a bit. Are you trying to say that BM gear should be restricted so its entirely preformance based? I don't favor gear discrepancies masking skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umpire Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 why the dot change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Congratulations Sir. you just named 2 games that aren't an MMORPG. go play them and leave the progression and achievement to those who understand why we play MMORPGs. I can beat you at both of those too. zomggg it must be the gear!!! PvP is PvP no matter what genre the game is. MMO PvP is the worst of the worst as long as it clings to gear gaps. *Some* MMOs have realized this is a bad idea. And now TOR is moving that way as well. Edited February 28, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I can't think of any reason for the medal changes other than to try and get folks on the most even footing as possible before rates warzones release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaniardInfinity Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Lot to like, but a few things I'm not completely understanding/things I wanted to comment on: A. When we receive credit for Ilum dailies and weeklies, are we talking about kill counts (kill 20 in a WZ = 20 in Ilum), or is it going to be something along the lines of participating in 1 WZ = 1 kill on Ilum? B. To the people commenting that all healers can cleanse: DoTs in particular have different types: Tech, Physical, Mental, and Force. Non-force healers (I can confirm Commando, I cannot confirm Scoundrel) can heal Tech and Physical and Commandos at the least can cleanse Mental if we spec into it. If I'm not mistaken, Sages cannot heal Tech DoTs at all, but can cleanse Physical and Force (by default) and Mental (if spec'd). C. The change the medals should be interesting. It's not as though you stop earning them after 4, they just don't matter in terms of valor/commendations. Really what they should do is hide the notifications of medals and remove the indicator showing how many medals you have until the end of the match. That should keep you involved in the match D. Also, I'm happy to see that you can no longer use the Russian military's strategy in WWII to win Alderaan (just throw bodies at it until its ours). Edited February 28, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 They should make it where CC doesn't stop you from detonating a door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisAquilus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't favor gear discrepancies masking skill. So basically you want everyone to have battlemaster gear, regardless of their ability, contribution, or time spent in pvp. It really does sound like you'd be better off with counterstrike. Gearing your character is a fairly significant and standard part of mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorgoth Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Three things the changes will prevent: Players ignoring the objectives to run off somewhere so they can farm the 'one on one' medal Players taking minor secondary healer or guarding abilities to farm those medals, even though it detracts from their primary roles Healers being penalised for concentrating on healing instead of farming medals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manski Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I can't think of any reason for the medal changes other than to try and get folks on the most even footing as possible before rates warzones release. The players who aren't currently on the even footing are those who suck anyway and will just get stomped when rated WZ's come out anyway so its still pointless. Ill just get to stomp them in equal gear and the crying will get even WORSE because they won't even be able to blame gear anymore. When they run out of reasons for why they suck and finally come to the realization that they suck they will get discouraged and quit. At least the current system strings the baddies along letting them think "well if i had that gear i'd be good too!" Edited February 28, 2012 by Manski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) So basically you want everyone to have battlemaster gear, regardless of their ability, contribution, or time spent in pvp. It really does sound like you'd be better off with counterstrike. Gearing your character is a fairly significant and standard part of mmos. No, it sounds like I'd be better off playing TOR, considering they're moving in that direction. Sounds like YOU would be better off in another game. Gear is for PvE. Edited February 28, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) More people care about Ilum then they realize. I'm in a guild that's PvP centric and has 20-35 people online a night. Most people look FORWARD to fighting large scale fights on Ilum. They just are hard to come by, Repubs stick to warzones mostly. As expected. Pushing all PvP toward WZs. Pretty much ditching all incentive to do OPvP altogether. Personally, I'm disappointed. If we were getting another 3 WZs with 1.2, I wouldn't mind so much. But we are only getting one. Huttball and Voidstar are so played out for me it's not even funny. I just can't stand them anymore. So not too thrilled. I know Ilum is garbage, but at least there are a variety of different fights there and some unpredictability, 30v30, 4v6, 1v1s. Oh well...will just have to vote with my wallet when the time comes if I don't enjoy it. Ilum essentially missed the ball. OPvP should be something people do because they want to, it will always be prone to abuse and only enjoyable for some. Yes, open world PvP can be amazingly fun (especially in a FFA game) but making it so that Ilum was the best way to grind valor led to exactly the type of negative behaviors that became commonplace. I hope that when they implement more open world PvP they put a bit more fore-thought into the rewards and penalties (open world PvP is worthless without both) and perhaps some features to support guild/team play. Captured territories etc would be nice. An open world zone to grind opponents in an RvR game (not even RvRvR)is dumb period. The idea that meaningless grinding of oppenents in a game that is practically guaranteed to be unbalanced should earn the greatest rate of return on valor is ridiculous. Edited February 28, 2012 by SWImara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If it wasn't hard, why do we need to make it easier? Are there lots of people saying its too hard to get to and finish SWTOR's endgame? I don't think so lol... quite the opposite. Wins hardly even matter now. You'll get 2k valor minumum for LOSING, which is more than I ever got for my best, most hard fought win. In 1.2, BM is going to be like the new Centurion, so I'm assuming these Valor changes are leading into the ranked Warzone season, when getting to higher Valor levels actually will be much harder. The gear we have now is probably going to be the bare minimum for pvp in 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisAquilus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Three things the changes will prevent: Players ignoring the objectives to run off somewhere so they can farm the 'one on one' medal Players taking minor secondary healer or guarding abilities to farm those medals, even though it detracts from their primary roles Healers being penalised for concentrating on healing instead of farming medals A better solution would be to give healers more medals. I know healers got the shaft a bit in the medal department, and that did need a fix, but this massive flat rate gain for everyone isn't it. Give healers a medal for 125k healed, 175k healed, 250k healed and 300 healed. Problem solved, and the numbers are too high for say a conceal op like myself to get to. No, it sounds like I'd be better off playing TOR, considering they're moving in that direction. Sounds like YOU would be better off in another game. Gear is for PvE. If that is indeed the direction they've moving in, of just letting everyone have the same awesome elite gear regardless of contribution, ability, or time spent then yeah, you're right. I'll probably cancel my sub... or stop pvping. I have a nice rading guild so maybe I'll be able to get cool looking, unusual gear that way? I dunno. Edited February 28, 2012 by CanisAquilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Three things the changes will prevent: Players ignoring the objectives to run off somewhere so they can farm the 'one on one' medal Players taking minor secondary healer or guarding abilities to farm those medals, even though it detracts from their primary roles Healers being penalised for concentrating on healing instead of farming medals If we're losing and it's a high chance we're going to lose, I can just sit around and do nothing after I've gotten my 4 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iraqcombatvet Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well, They ruined Ilum PVP. They made it soooo much easier for people to become BM......What is the point of BM now that you give soooo much valor per WZ round. Even if its just time that makes your BM, lacking skill......doesn't matter. I grinded my *** off to get to BM and now they are making it sooo much easier for everyone else. This is *********** bul****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 A better solution would be to give healers more medals. I know healers got the shaft a bit in the medal department, and that did need a fix, but this massive flat rate gain for everyone isn't it. Give healers a medal for 125k healed, 175k healed, 250k healed and 300 healed. Problem solved, and the numbers are too high for say a conceal op like myself to get to. Doesn't address medal farmers. The changes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 We want our hard work and excellent preformance to get rewarded. Thats all. Come correct. Time spent playing a game is not hard work. There was nothing excellent about 50s farming lowbies in WZs pre-1.1, trading dailies on Ilum pre-1.1, Killtrading on Ilum, or being an Imp that exploited the Valor gaff upon 1.1 release. Not saying you did these things, however, I would bet more than half of the present BM population in this game did. Nobody worked for anything. While I empathize with your primary argument, that something should set players apart in PvP, gear is not that thing. A title should be enough. Unfortunately, the PvP titles in this game were soiled by peeps that happened to have more time to play a game in a two month period than other people and largely preferred to cheat/exploit their way to the title given every opportunity available to them. It's a shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Sure there are seven other contributors. I'm not saying they shouldn't get anything OBVIOUSLY, I'm only saying that your reward should be dependant on your preformance. Not some flat rate you get for showing up. --- Imagine two there are two sprocket makers, Jim and Bob. Jim makes twice as many sprokets as Bob per hour. Should Jim get paid more? If your answer is yes, then you ought to ALSO be in favor of reward being proportional to contribution in pvp, aka NOT in favor of the patch changes. If your answer is no, congratulations, you're a communist. And the upcoming system does reward you more - than the losing team - because you carried your Bobs to victory. I can agree with your sentiment...I'm all for letting market forces work and such. However, there are situations where a pure survival of the fittest approach leads to poor results, even for the fittest. For example, take the National Football League. The poorest performing teams are rewarded with the highest draft picks. This is intuitively backwards as it appears to reward failure instead of success. However, the teams have sufficient interest to strive for wins regardless of that. If the winning teams got the biggest rewards, parity in the league would fall apart... The best teams would get better, the worst teams would get worse. Games would be boring with predictable outcomes and narrow audience interest. The league's ability to generate profit would crumble…and player salaries would likewise follow, even for the best players. The entire pie of money that gets carved up would be drastically smaller due to lack of competitive games. So, in this case artificial forces (salary caps, roster limits, draft rules, revenue sharing) that ultimately encourage as competitive environment as is reasonably possible creates increased success and reward for everyone. The league makes more money and pays their players more money. The fans benefit with greater enjoyment. You could even argue that the players themselves have more fun participating in competitive games against worthy opponents. MMO PvP is closer to the NFL type environment than it is to an open market. It's not fun to play if it's not reasonably competitive and, for some, generally rewarding for active participation. If it's not fun to play, less people play the game until the game eventually dies. Uber gear set obtained from stomping noob players repeatedly is tons of fun at that point. Edited February 28, 2012 by Boarg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionDammit Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wow, guess I struck a nerve posting this. LOL I'm glad for all the changes to be honest. makes grinding BM for my Shadow less of a well, grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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