The thought that WoW has more endgame content

[Raeln]

Cosmetic would still be an improvement.

 

No, not if the cycle is bound to server time.

 

Also - a day/night cycle is detrimental to the game if the NPCs do not respond to the time of day. It really makes sense for all those NPCs to stand in the same place at 2am game time - do they never sleep?

[Magnijung]

While I hate the bloated blizzard monster pig as much the the next guy, to suggest that swtor has even a fraction of its content is laughable, no matter how you look at it. With 3 years of dev love swtor still couldnt match that behemoth for content...

 

It is more laughable to consider outdated raids, instances, reputation, and gear as behemoth of content.

 

Also if this is how the amount of content a game has is determined and accepted by players, Blizzard could release raids with only 1 boss from now on.

[Lethality]

The Worgen shift to human was also purely cosmetic. Day or Night, fighting them was identical, they just had a different look. It's the closest WoW got to something non-cosmetic, but it was still just cosmetic. WoW actually had reason for that, in their use of a 24 hour day (so people that could only log in during the night weren't at any advantage/disadvantage verses those that could log in only in the day, or anytime).

 

FFXI, by contrast (and I'm sure other MMOs), had actually non-cosmetic changes at day and night, like undead coming out during the night, but they could do that because their day night cycles were much shorter (I think it was an hour or two as I recall, been a long time). Shorter day and night meant everyone could likely experience both regardless of their RL schedule.

 

Wow, you can find anything to complain about.

 

Yes, cosmetic... but it added depth and interest to the world. One of the things I don't think even many TOR fans would argue the galaxy needs more of!

 

Also adding mechanical differences to some extent is a losing proposition. Now you want to balance nighttime fights and daytime fights? Diminishing ROI on that one... sorry to say. Cosmetic is the right move in that case.

 

But, I'm not against seeing at least some more mechanical influence by a day/night cycle.

[Lethality]

No, not if the cycle is bound to server time.

 

Also - a day/night cycle is detrimental to the game if the NPCs do not respond to the time of day. It really makes sense for all those NPCs to stand in the same place at 2am game time - do they never sleep?

 

More sense than on a planet where it's perpetually the same time, all day, every day.

[Snibb]

.... it's useless fluff ...

 

I guess I don't consider immersion "useless fluff."

Some do... doubt we'll ever agree.

BTW, darkness, and lighting creates one heck of an atmosphere if done correctly, and really brings your scene to life. Something this game lacks IMO.

(You only have sight and sound to reach the user with, might as well use those to the max.)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Snibb

[BlackZoback]

And that is the root of most of the concern... these are things that definitely should have been baked-in from the start, so it isn't an act of congress to implement later. This is the lack of features folks are talking about. And the marathon it will be to even catch up.

 

Unless it was baked in the game at release you shouldn't even expect to ever see it. Even if it's something on their "to do" list it will be at or close to the bottom, probably slated for an expansion.

 

Your "lack of features" is what some consider "useless fluff" and most of it is.

[Coiffio]

Reason why it seems/seemed that wow had more endgame content is because of the grind they generally put in place in order to prep for endgame. remember the Ahn'quiraj unlock stuff? They also used to have attunement quests, or you had to kill certain bosses to get keys to another dungeon. There were also artificial gates put into place that teased you about the next raid to come. With TOR, you're just sort of tossed into it, and it's over quickly. I think that there is really what doesn't sit well with people, no pomp or endgame grind.

[BlackZoback]

Reason why it seems/seemed that wow had more endgame content is because of the grind they generally put in place in order to prep for endgame. remember the Ahn'quiraj unlock stuff? They also used to have attunement quests, or you had to kill certain bosses to get keys to another dungeon. There were also artificial gates put into place that teased you about the next raid to come. With TOR, you're just sort of tossed into it, and it's over quickly. I think that there is really what doesn't sit well with people, no pomp or endgame grind.

 

You also forgot the impossible/bugged bosses they threw in more then once. A lot of world first where subsequently followed by the patch to fix the exploit that was used to down them.

[Marmerus]

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

 

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.

Still very few guilds has managed to kill death wing on heroic. But every raiding guild in SWTOR has cleared pretty much everything. And I guess there is more raiding guilds in WoW than there is in SWTOR. So it is pretty safe to assume raiding in WoW is harder than in SWTOR.

[blazingg]

hmmmm... this game is called swtor not wow i dont care how much content wow has because wow is the same waiting room game that swtor turned into at 50 fleet = orgimmar

[Derekloffin]

Wow, you can find anything to complain about.

 

I wasn't complaining, just pointing out the truth.

 

Yes, cosmetic... but it added depth and interest to the world. One of the things I don't think even many TOR fans would argue the galaxy needs more of!

 

Now I'll complain. Having come from FFXI, WoW's day night cycles actually felt silly and tacked on. Nothing more silly in WoW than being in the dead of night as seeing the same children walking down the street in Stormwind. On top of that, many zones ignored day/night. I feel much the same about when people bring up being able to sit on chairs which I feel is the most completely pointless waste of development time in WoW. If you're going to add something environmental, make it affect the game. Cosmetic is good to a point, but there are lots of things that just shouldn't be added unless they actually have some meaningful impact.

 

Also adding mechanical differences to some extent is a losing proposition. Now you want to balance nighttime fights and daytime fights? Diminishing ROI on that one... sorry to say. Cosmetic is the right move in that case.

 

Again I disagree. If you can't make it matter, do something else entirely. I'd rather them spend the development time making a new dungeon, or some more quests, or whatever, than wasting it on a useless cosmetic effect.

[reaperkeepet]

Enough! Sick and tired of these 2 month old game VS 7 year old game threads. U WANT RAID? I GIVE U RAID. I GIVE YOU GAME UPDATE 1.2. I GIVE IT LIFE!

[MPagano]

To de-bunk and explain some thoughts

 

Thought #1 WoW has more raid content

 

False - Ever since BC WoW has implemented 2 instances in the first raid tier of an expansion. We are seeing, so far, the same model in TOR. Cataclysm was the exception to this in WoW but the raids easily were considered one raid as clearing both BOT/BWL in one night was common place.

 

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

 

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.

 

Thought #3 There is nothing to do in TOR at endgame vs. WoW

 

And what is there to do in WoW? Farm dailies, grind dungeons, raid, farm achievements. Looks pretty similar to the TOR endgame to me. No, TOR doesn't have as many dailies but we're really splitting hairs here. There are no achievements in TOR as of yet but if you are farming achievements you must be pretty bored with a game to do so. MMO's have a grind to get gear at endgame and TOR hasn't changed anything up.

 

Thought #4 TOR is more aimed at casuals than WoW

 

Really? LFR is all that needs to be said on that. There is nothing wrong with being a casual, some people realize life is more important than a video game but you can't say WoW isn't aimed at a casual market. In this day and age all MMO's are going to be catering to a casual audience, that is how the market has changed and this is how developer's are going to adapt to stay afloat int he marketplace.

 

I was not a shot at saying TOR is better than WoW, everyone has their own opinion. These are just some facts that I wanted to throw out there that really in some circumstance these games are pretty even leveled.

 

Is this a troll?? I can't be sure. I played WoW in beta and up to frozen throne. During vanilla wow, I was a competetive raider who claimed every server first through BWL.

 

Comparing eternity vault to Molten Core is hilarious. PUGs can fumble through EV in 4 or 5 hours.

 

Many of your points are talking about expanions in WoW? We're talking about launch WoW and launch ToR. TOR does not have the depth of content that WoW has. The fights are simpler, hard mode dungeons are a joke because they hinge entirely on an enrage mechanic which dumbs the entire experience down to a gear check, the end game crafting is currently laughable, the pvp system is a joke.

 

I was one of the first 50s on my server in WoW. I continued to play that game for hours each night before there were even enough people to run a raid. I have played less than 20 hours since hitting 50 in TOR. I've seen EV, I've seen pvp, and there's nothing to do in the world.

[Raeln]

More sense than on a planet where it's perpetually the same time, all day, every day.

 

Negative.

 

It's far easier to believe that you are not on the planet's surface for days at a time than it is to log in at 2am server time and see no change in the NPC population. They are all still standing there, patiently waiting for you to come talk to them. They have no lives of their own, no need for sleep, no need to eat, nothing.

[NDiggy]

You also forgot the impossible/bugged bosses they threw in more then once. A lot of world first where subsequently followed by the patch to fix the exploit that was used to down them.

 

I think you are mistaken sir. WoW was the bestest game evar and Blizzards is the mostest amazingest devloper in tha worlds. Nevar could there be bugs in the World of Warcraft! Simply working in the building next door to Blizzard means your poo will never stink due to your proximity to the greatness that is Blizzard and WoW.

[Snibb]

I think you are mistaken sir. SWTOR was the bestest game evar and BW is the mostest amazingest devloper in tha worlds. Nevar could there be bugs in the SWTOR! Simply working in the building next door to BW means your poo will never stink due to your proximity to the greatness that is BW and SWTOR.

 

Fixed for ya.

Two sides of the same coin!

 

Edited March 1, 2012 by Snibb

[Elwacko]

wrong.

 

please restate all material, giving exact and detailed walkthroughs.

 

stating vague examples, which aren't even examples, creates a wasted post and is taking up time on these forums.

[Sathid]

As an EQ2 player myself and most that have played EQ2 for years and raided consider WoW kiddy and frankly a very dumbed down game,how anyone can call themselves a hardcore raider or something that played WoW is beyond me.

 

 

Got macros?

Edited March 1, 2012 by Sathid

[WindywaIker]

While I hate the bloated blizzard monster pig as much the the next guy, to suggest that swtor has even a fraction of its content is laughable, no matter how you look at it. With 3 years of dev love swtor still couldnt match that behemoth for content...

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, all of WoW's content is the same boring grind.

[WindywaIker]

I think you are mistaken sir. WoW was the bestest game evar and Blizzards is the mostest amazingest devloper in tha worlds. Nevar could there be bugs in the World of Warcraft! Simply working in the building next door to Blizzard means your poo will never stink due to your proximity to the greatness that is Blizzard and WoW.

 

 

Delusional thoughts.

[NDiggy]

Is this a troll?? I can't be sure. I played WoW in beta and up to frozen throne. During vanilla wow, I was a competetive raider who claimed every server first through BWL.

 

Not sure how this is relevant, but kudos to you sir. I too was a hardcore raider in Vanilla and my guild had almost every server first from Vanilla through BC and Sunwell.

 

Comparing eternity vault to Molten Core is hilarious. PUGs can fumble through EV in 4 or 5 hours.

 

You're right, the comparison is hilarious. Molten Bore was a textbook example boring raid design and archaic thinking with artificial roadblocks like attunements, aqual quintessences, and farming fire resist gear in addition to gathering and organizing 40 people. Add in the hours of clearing trash and you had the most excruciating raiding experience I've ever had. EV is about as accessible as Naxx was in Wrath. IE, its a good starter raid and it has a lot more unique mechanics to it than almost any WoW raid. Most people broke their MMO cherries playing WoW and even puggers are more sophisticated when it comes to raiding than they were 7 years ago. If a pug group can put in 4-5 hours of their lives to clear a first tier raid on normal, that seems like a good place for the difficulty to be then.

 

Many of your points are talking about expanions in WoW? We're talking about launch WoW and launch ToR. TOR does not have the depth of content that WoW has. The fights are simpler, hard mode dungeons are a joke because they hinge entirely on an enrage mechanic which dumbs the entire experience down to a gear check, the end game crafting is currently laughable, the pvp system is a joke.

 

I think you're using those rose colored goggles again and confusing amount of content with depth of content. Not every hard mode boss fight is a gear check (fyi those types of fights existed in WoW as well). I'm not sure how you can claim the fights are simpler without giving multiple examples. My experience has been that the fights are largely the same difficulty as in WoW. End game crafting in WoW is just as useless and they've had 7 years to try and address that issue without success (or even really trying).

 

If you don't think PvP in WoW is a joke I don't know what to tell you. PvP in this game isn't perfect, but at least the game is only 2 months old and they're making changes on an almost weekly basis. WoW has been out 7 years and PvP is still an imbalanced zergfest. If something is imbalanced Blizzard will wait months before trying to address the issue in a patch, or in most cases will simply say "eff it" and wait until the next expansion to try and address the issue.

 

I was one of the first 50s on my server in WoW. I continued to play that game for hours each night before there were even enough people to run a raid. I have played less than 20 hours since hitting 50 in TOR. I've seen EV, I've seen pvp, and there's nothing to do in the world.

 

I'm going to assume you meant "first 60s". May I ask what you did to bide your time until other people hit 60? Were you on a pvp or pve server? Did you go ganking lowbies in your spare time? You obviously weren't running instances or raiding if there weren't enough other 60s, and there were no BGs at the time or pvp gear to collect (Onyxia was the only raid in game at launch). So, what were you doing?

 

It sounds to me like your problem lies with the nature of MMOs and not specifically with SWTOR. You sound burned out on MMOs and if thats the case you should try another genre of game.

[Dekkau]

Took me quite a few years before I got bored with WoW. Took me just two weeks here. Seriously this game is so dreary... Sorry for that. Back to Rift.

[BlackZoback]

 

Many of your points are talking about expanions in WoW? We're talking about launch WoW and launch ToR. TOR does not have the depth of content that WoW has. The fights are simpler, hard mode dungeons are a joke because they hinge entirely on an enrage mechanic which dumbs the entire experience down to a gear check, the end game crafting is currently laughable, the pvp system is a joke.

 

 

If you wher there for WoW launch then you must know that MC and Ony where the only raids available till patch 1.6 which came out 7 months after release, and also battlegrounds didn't exist.. and neither did any kind of system for rewarding pvping.

Edited March 1, 2012 by BlackZoback

[NDiggy]

I think you are mistaken sir. SWTOR was the bestest game evar and BW is the mostest amazingest devloper in tha worlds. Nevar could there be bugs in the SWTOR! Simply working in the building next door to BW means your poo will never stink due to your proximity to the greatness that is BW and SWTOR.

 

Fixed for ya.

Two sides of the same coin!

 

 

I think you missed the point of the post entirely. Let me explain because it was apparently over your head. The point is that most people tend to only remember the good points about WoW and gloss over the bad points. This is a quirk of human memory as people tend to focus on good memories and gloss over bad ones, and is the source of the phrase "rose colored goggles".

 

For example, say you broke up with someone that you clearly weren't right for yet two months later you can't remember why you broke up with them and you're tempted to give them a call. Three or four months later you might be kicking yourself about the one that got away. Thats just how our minds work and that is the process I believe is in play when a lot people compare this game to WoW and gloss over the things that WoW did poorly or even did the exact same as SWTOR.

 

As an FYI I'm the first to admit that SWTOR is far from perfect and has major issues. I will, however, point out the hypocrisy of anyone singing the praises of WoW over SWTOR when they're essentially the same game. Especially at level cap, they're both basically gear grinds. Its just a matter of preference as to whether you prefer orcs and elves to Twi'Leks and Jedi.

Edited March 1, 2012 by NDiggy

[Knockerz]

The only tier that matters in wow is the current tier every thing else is there to be attempted to be solo or multibox for giggles. That's the way I see wow content. Last, I check my old guild has only 3-4 people that still raid from the ulduar days. Pretty much every one I knew quit so why would I want to go back to wow to the boring gear grinding treadmill. Wow's developers seem to think gear grinding is he content.