My Sniper PVP Experience...

[Poe_]

I completely shut down all your nonsense with a single statement the last time.

And yet you're back! <giggity>

Your lack of understanding is simply amazing.

I was right!

I am not hiding.

Nope, you're not hiding. You walked right into it!

You are the classic average player who thinks he knows how the game works, yet it is the complete opposite and is why you will never be at a high level.

LOL. You are the classic epeen elitist moron who thinks he knows how the game works (without any analytics btw! Amazing!). I don't even know what 'you will never be at a high level' means man. You mean I'll never be 50? Oops too late lol. You mean I'll never be good? Again, I'm afraid you're wrong. But you've been wrong before, right? I mean, like, alot?

 

Trolololololololusir!

[Poe_]

YOU SHOULD be earning top damage WHEN PLAYING SMART. The fact that you don't again goes to show that you are not playing at a high level. Give it up.

 

Claiming to be an unsung hero is what bad players do to make themselves feel better. Good players notice good play regardless of who it is coming from.

You're so broken it's funny. The post I am replying to suggests that we can sometimes help our team the most when we play defensively. The examples given in the post suggest the same (i.e. Cover Pulse). You won't be top damage that way. The fact YOU sir think that top damage is the way you know you've played smart suggests, as I've said, that you are full of it. Not only are you elitist and a know-it-all, but I think you're a wtfpwn pewpewer based on a statement like that.

 

Lern2team

Lern2play

Lern2humble

Lern2Btrolllllled

[mjAstro]

You're so broken it's funny. The post I am replying to suggests that we can sometimes help our team the most when we play defensively. The examples given in the post suggest the same (i.e. Cover Pulse). You won't be top damage that way. The fact YOU sir think that top damage is the way you know you've played smart suggests, as I've said, that you are full of it. Not only are you elitist and a know-it-all, but I think you're a wtfpwn pewpewer based on a statement like that.

 

Lern2team

Lern2play

Lern2humble

Lern2Btrolllllled

 

Just sad. I win 80-90% of all my warzones while being top damage and focusing on objectives. I do not pad meters and still get top damage. If you can't do that, then you have some ways to go. If you think the best way to help your team is to play defensive....then wow. Is damage everything? OF COURSE NOT. Did I say top damage is the way to know if you played smart? NO. Again, you make stupid assumptions that are just plain wrong. If you are getting 30-50 KBs each game, the damage is extremely effective. 800k damage with few KBs, that damage is not effective. You can still do amazing damage when playing the objectives. Saying you can't goes to show the kind of player you are. You continually show an utter lack of understanding when it comes to how this game works. You really should stop.

[TheRagingPwner]

Just sad. I win 80-90% of all my warzones while being top damage and focusing on objectives. I do not pad meters and still get top damage. If you can't do that, then you have some ways to go. If you think the best way to help your team is to play defensive....then wow. Is damage everything? OF COURSE NOT. Did I say top damage is the way to know if you played smart? NO. Again, you make stupid assumptions that are just plain wrong. If you are getting 30-50 KBs each game, the damage is extremely effective. 800k damage with few KBs, that damage is not effective. You can still do amazing damage when playing the objectives. Saying you can't goes to show the kind of player you are. You continually show an utter lack of understanding when it comes to how this game works. You really should stop.

 

Wait...are you saying that playing defensive is bad? I play defensive in a lot of my WZs. Especially against better teams/premades.

 

In Hutball, often my whole team will be running the ball to score while a few of the other team sneaks to the middle for a hopefully ninja score. I usually control the middle of the map while staying up top to prevent anyone from an easy cap and score.

 

In Voidstar and Civil War, playing defensive makes a lot more sense. Guard the doors and guard the turrets. Win the game.

[Poe_]

Wait...are you saying that playing defensive is bad? I play defensive in a lot of my WZs. Especially against better teams/premades.

 

In Hutball, often my whole team will be running the ball to score while a few of the other team sneaks to the middle for a hopefully ninja score. I usually control the middle of the map while staying up top to prevent anyone from an easy cap and score.

 

In Voidstar and Civil War, playing defensive makes a lot more sense. Guard the doors and guard the turrets. Win the game.

This.

 

Mr. Know-it-all just won't accept the idea of smart playing somehow being different than HIS way of playing. I believe it's been well summed here, I am sure he'll continue to bluster, but this thread is as old and tired now as his dusty old WoW Arena medals must be.

 

We'll all keep playing Sniper the way we like, be effective, and know it. He can whine and ***** and not get half the pleasure from gaming as others. The community continues to say the same thing ... Snipers need some love, they need some balancing, but they are an entirely effective class to play, if difficult to excel at, which makes them fun for casual and hardcore players alike.

 

There'll always be opinionated buttards like you-know-who, we've seen em before. He's not even fun to troll anymore.

 

(thought I can't wait to see his lame-a-s reply to this since he doesn't seem able to stay away).

 

For new snipers, it's important to hang on and not be daunted by the 'you're useless in endgame' cryers.

[Threskov]

Its not about anything you said. Anything a sniper do, another class currently do better. PvE, PvP, utility, damage, defense, offense.

 

Its not about you or padding a damageboard or learning to play.

[TheRagingPwner]

Its not about anything you said. Anything a sniper do, another class currently do better. PvE, PvP, utility, damage, defense, offense.

 

Its not about you or padding a damageboard or learning to play.

 

Is that so? Because I have not met another person who can do the ranged single target DPS that I can do...both PvP and PvE. I would agree that our utility is lacking but we more than make up for that in damage. I wouldn't mind seeing something added that makes us unique in the PvP utility...something like a Mortal Strike ability...but as someone who leads every WZ in dmg, kills, and KBs, I am more than happy with my sniper in PvP.

[mBass]

YOU SHOULD be earning top damage WHEN PLAYING SMART. The fact that you don't again goes to show that you are not playing at a high level. Give it up.

 

Claiming to be an unsung hero is what bad players do to make themselves feel better. Good players notice good play regardless of who it is coming from.

 

And when is a WZ team ever full of good players? There are plenty of valid reasons not to be getting top damage in warzones, huttball especially. Half of the time in huttball, kills actually hurt your chances of winning. On top of that, there are more useful things you could be doing. In voidstar, the only way you're going to compete with people who spam aoe is if you do it yourself.... and again, there are more useful things you could be doing.

[Poe_]

mJAstro, do you note the use of words like 'useful' and 'utility' as they relate to player action in a warzone, not class mechanics?

 

Just wanna be sure you can follow along with the big kids bro.

 

/trololol

[Threskov]

Is that so? Because I have not met another person who can do the ranged single target DPS that I can do...both PvP and PvE. I would agree that our utility is lacking but we more than make up for that in damage. I wouldn't mind seeing something added that makes us unique in the PvP utility...something like a Mortal Strike ability...but as someone who leads every WZ in dmg, kills, and KBs, I am more than happy with my sniper in PvP.

 

 

I have both a commando and a gunslinger at 50. When you get them both geared, the commando will do on par and more than you, simply based on the dmg type of his attack. When you get more than 1, the commando simply outlevel you since their debuff stacks the dmg inc of their next ability.

[TheRagingPwner]

I have both a commando and a gunslinger at 50. When you get them both geared, the commando will do on par and more than you, simply based on the dmg type of his attack. When you get more than 1, the commando simply outlevel you since their debuff stacks the dmg inc of their next ability.

 

I am just going based on what I have experienced. Through 60 valor lvls of doing only rank 50 WZs, I have never been beaten by a merc/commando. It actually isn't ever really close. I will agree that the merc/commando is a much much easier class to play but I am telling you that if you are good at playing the MM class, no other class in the game can compete at single target DPS. Disagree all you want but I am saying that I am happy with my results. Now the merc/trooper may be able to better deal with tanks but if you are selectively attacking a tank as a sniper, you are doing it wrong. I actually hope that BW listens to all of the complainers on the forums because if snipers get buffed, it really wont even be fair for me.

[Balduvar]

mjAstro, despite your claims you have yet to provide a single example or counter example of something that you can do more effectively than a sniper on one of your 50s of any other class. Poe_ has at least tried to provide examples. I'll throw out a few examples that I've noticed snipers excel at.

 

Cover Pulse, in my opinion (OMG I said the "O" word), is one of, if not the strongest knock back in the game.

It is the only knock back that is free.

It is tied for the largest range.

It is one of only 2 knock backs that hit an unlimited number of targets.

It can be talented to have the longest distance or the second shortest cooldown (but not both).

And it roots all targets affected by it for up to 5 seconds with 2 seconds guaranteed!

 

That last point is what makes it extremely powerful, especially in combination with Entrench. I almost never attempt to cap a door in Voidstar personally when there is a period of free time to attempt it. Why? Because no other class can stall a zerg from another team that just had 6 players res who are trying to rush a door like a sniper can. I post up between the res point and my team, in cover, entrenched, with my shield probe and ballistic dampers up. When they get close enough I knock every single one of them out of range (or in some spots, out of LoS) of the people trying to cap and root them there for 5 seconds. For anyone that I miss or anyone that breaks the root early, I toss a flashbang at them. How much damage do I do playing defensively in this situation? Probably zero. Will it get me killed? Most likely. Will it provide my team with the best opportunity they could hope for to cap a door? Damn right.

 

Plasma probe and orbital strike are also great area denial abilities. Area denial abilities are of course great for preventing people from capping doors/turrets. They are also great for making people move. When people have to move, they often have to stop doing whatever it is that they were doing.

 

Merc spamming tracer missiles on your healer? Orbital strike will make him stop. If it doesn't, you open fire on him and if he eats a full burst rotation from you plus a few ticks of OS, he's toast.

 

Healer humping a pillar and keeping his team healthy? Force him behind the pillar and make him LoS his team while you and your team focus down a target.

 

There is a very, very good chance that you will spend 30 energy on a high damage 1 minute cooldown to do 0 damage in both of these situations. There is also a good chance that you will force a kill or save a teammate by disrupting the opposing team and imposing your will upon them.

 

Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart spam can also be borderline OP for defending a turret or door. I remember a specific Alderaan Civil War match where a marauder and I held a steady flow of 5-6 people off from capping the middle node for over 7 minutes. As in, the node was unclaimed until 7 minutes into the warzone. Each team had 1 node at first but because 2 of us were able to hold off so many for a long period of time, our team was able to outnumber them and take both outside turrets by the time they were able to cap mid. In this warzone I was #1 on overall damage because of my DoT spam. I also had a horrible ratio of something like 19 kills to 12 deaths. Do you think my high damage and low kills was ineffective, meaningless damage in this situation? I don't. We won the match by the way.

 

In Huttball I can post up in a defensive position without fear of an enemy ball carrier leaping to me to get away from my team. Operatives can technically do this too if they want, but they can't do much else while they're there. I can put pressure on healers as they approach. I usually try to position myself where I will be able to knock the ball carrier and/or a healer into the fire with cover pulse. You remember the part about cover pulse rooting for 5 seconds with a guaranteed 2 right? Good. Because that's almost a guaranteed kill if you throw a shot or 2 at them as well.

 

With interrogation probe, leg shot, flashbang, and some burst damage I can isolate a healer. He will be slowed and will likely be stopped either from the root/disorient or from having to use a heal with a cast time to survive my damage. This will often force him to fall far enough behind his ball carrier that my team will be able to kill the ball carrier. This is extremely effective if I am on one of the rafters and their entire team is trying to move along the side out of the pit. Nobody can leap to me to flush me out and I can backup out of LoS if I am attacked.

 

In a general skirmish as a marksmanship sniper I can lay down killing blow after killing blow after killing blow like no other class. MM snipers are excellent at target switches because they can provide good burst from range with little to no ramp up time or extreme burst with a bit of preparation. This allows me to ensure that low health targets become dead targets instead of staying low health targets while their healers frantically keep them alive. Leg shot on a short and a 40 yard range (4 piece set bonus) on take down help to make sure low health runners turn into dead runners too. This is honestly my absolute favorite part about playing a sniper and is they main reason I'm really liking marksmanship spec over lethality right now. It also happens to get me a very nice number of kills and put up excellent numbers for damage done.

 

Also, in case you never realized it from my last point, damage IS utility. Utility in your definition means "usefulness". Utility in a general sense is your ability to control a fight. Controlling a fight is definitely useful. You absolutely can provide a lot of control over a fight through damage if you apply it intelligently.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Balduvar

[globetro]

1) Is there really a point in judging a classes' PVP viability pre-L50?

 

2) A lot of WZ experience is just based on your opponents. There will be WZ's where you're never focus fired and you feel like you're amazing, just sitting around shooting people from afar and racking up the damage/kills.

 

And then there will be the WZ's where you feel like every fight you're outnumbered, in which case it's a miserable experience -- get off an ambush and maybe halfway through a SoS before you're dead.

[michaelra]

Great long post by Balduvar I agree.. I love my Sniper MM in PvP. It's true we are very squishy but we have lots of arsenals in different situations.

 

One thing we all need to realise is that in PvP, we are more of a utility. Let someone captures or holds the ball, while you provide assistance. Leg shot, flashbang, orbital strike for denial of entry, make the healers run for their lives due to your damage burst, etc to help your teammates is more important than scoring/capping (though of course, unless no one is there)

[Balduvar]

In Huttball I can post up in a defensive position without fear of an enemy ball carrier leaping to me to get away from my team. Operatives can technically do this too if they want, but they can't do much else while they're there. I can put pressure on healers as they approach. I usually try to position myself where I will be able to knock the ball carrier and/or a healer into the fire with cover pulse. You remember the part about cover pulse rooting for 5 seconds with a guaranteed 2 right? Good. Because that's almost a guaranteed kill if you throw a shot or 2 at them as well.

 

Interesting note: Snipers/Gunslingers specced for Diversion are also the only class that can prevent this.

[OldSwab]

I absolutely love those little blue "no, kill me instead!" billboards you guys put up around knee level.

[KraithFjorn]

YOU SHOULD be earning top damage WHEN PLAYING SMART. The fact that you don't again goes to show that you are not playing at a high level. Give it up.

 

That's not true at all.

 

Just as a note to anyone who's curious, going into warzones with the mentality of racking up as much damage as possible, even as a sniper, isn't very productive. It might net you a modicum more medals you might not get otherwise, but that's about it.

 

Go into warzones with the mentality of focusing down targets, drawing attention from the enemy team away from the objective, and making use of your distinct abilities (Orbital Strike, Ballistic Shield, and other spec specific abilities). If you play that way, and you do it well, there's a good chance you'll get some high damage numbers.

 

If someone else was out DPSing you, it could be because they were either better (geared), had the advantage of a team, or were playing a DoT/AoE centric build. Ask any Lethality Sniper (or even Leth/Eng Sniper for that matter), even if they feel they were less productive than they were before, they will likely still have a lot more damage than they would otherwise.

[OldSwab]

...drawing attention from the enemy team away from the objective, and making use of your distinct abilities (Orbital Strike, Ballistic Shield, and other spec specific abilities).

 

Asking the leader to mark the healer or healers (it might be a wash if they have more than one) with blazing sun helps a sniper focus on the priority target and get the necessary support to bring it down.

 

Knocking their healer out of spawn sync with their dps'ers in a tight voidstar match will tend to carry it. They can't afford to wait to regroup, and an enemy healer with limited support is only my second favorite kind of healer.

[Poe_]

This continues to be a great thread showing the utility of Snipers at any level, including (but not limited to):

 

Area denial

Healer hazarding

Group dispersal

Objective defense

All-out single target dps

 

Anyone late to the party, I urge you to read through some of the thread replies if you are questioning your viability in PvP.

[Crankyhobo]

Snipers go unnoticed except by other sniper, because people usually dont like when they're being told that their class is useless in pvp, so they say gj to other snipers to make them feel useful.

 

-----

 

I have leveled the following characters to lvl 50: assassin, operative, sage, sentinel, commando and gunslinger.

 

All the perks of the sniper/gunslinger can be done better by another class in pvp. Damage, utility, everything is better left to someone else. Take 2 equally skilled team, you'd rather have another class than a sniper/gunslinger.

 

In PvE, they do really nice damage, but with the grav round/tracer missile stacking debuffs from various merc/commando, you really want them as DPS, with 1 sentinel/marauder for interupt and the 15% dmg inc buff.

 

Overall, gunslingers/snipers arent there yet. As a ranged DPS, the commando/merc will drop the ball carriers/tank faster, the healer, and the DPS than the sniper can. When the enemy LOS his missile, instead of looking funny not being able to shoot, he will heal himself.

 

Its sad, cuz I love the playstyle of my gunslinger. But the class isnt finished.

 

Its interesting to me that the people with actual experience posting on the sniper forums of what other classes are capable of, those that can compare directly, seem to agree with certainty that other classes do everything a sniper can do but better.

 

Personally, i haven't played every class to 50 but i have played more huttball games than any human should and the effect of pretty much every ability i have, i've seen other classes use too. Talking about utility, there is baseline standard bag of tricks and sniper is barely a step above that. Maybe we have some slightly longer effects or reduced cool-downs but its negligible in comparison to things like force leap/run.

[Alkei]

Its interesting to me that the people with actual experience posting on the sniper forums of what other classes are capable of, those that can compare directly, seem to agree with certainty that other classes do everything a sniper can do but better.

 

Agreed. And it seems like those protecting "great sniper utility" are just trying to justify their poor damage dealing.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Alkei

[bumpy_anderson]

First off, let me say that I'm a lethality sniper; however, I don't spread around dots to pad my dps. I really don't care about the numbers that much. I've played lethality for most of my levels, so I stuck with it after 50. At the moment, I'm valor 58 with mostly champ/some cent gear. I know that I can post up similar numbers in a MM spec because I tried it again a week or so ago. I'm sticking with lethality because I find it more enjoyable and I run sometimes with a 70+valor MM sniper. Together, we can burn down any other toon with ease. With all this being said, I think MM or lethality should usually top dps whether you are focusing on dps or trying to win. The plain fact is that we are killers. If you are really good at it, that is utility within itself. I don't know any other class that can burn down players like we can. Good snipers resets the other team. I can usually top dps by playing my class as it should be. If you aren't at the top or at least the top 2, you are doing something wrong. I'm not refering to running with a really bad pug, I'm talking about an average group or better.

 

Sure, snipers may lack a bit of the utility that other classes may have, but we make up for it in the ways that I mentioned above. We play a class that takes a bit more than just button pushing to master. We have to be aware of our surroundings and we have to be able to adjust to situations. The only classes that give me issues 1v1 are some of the really good stealthers. The average stealthers are still fairly easy to melt down.

 

Again, I'm lethality but I know the MM spec very well. Besides, the other MM sniper in my guild would agree with everything that I've mentioned. I'm not an elitist, but I know my role.

 

That's not true at all.

 

Just as a note to anyone who's curious, going into warzones with the mentality of racking up as much damage as possible, even as a sniper, isn't very productive. It might net you a modicum more medals you might not get otherwise, but that's about it.

 

Go into warzones with the mentality of focusing down targets, drawing attention from the enemy team away from the objective, and making use of your distinct abilities (Orbital Strike, Ballistic Shield, and other spec specific abilities). If you play that way, and you do it well, there's a good chance you'll get some high damage numbers.

 

If someone else was out DPSing you, it could be because they were either better (geared), had the advantage of a team, or were playing a DoT/AoE centric build. Ask any Lethality Sniper (or even Leth/Eng Sniper for that matter), even if they feel they were less productive than they were before, they will likely still have a lot more damage than they would otherwise.

[Poe_]

Agreed. And it seems like those protecting "great sniper utility" are just trying to justify their poor damage dealing.

And it seems like those that look at warzone dps as the most important gauge for a Sniper don't know the class at all, nor do they understand the concept of winning a warzone match versus individual achievement.

 

They are what most people call 'pewpewers.'

 

Further, to ignore the many obvious things Snipers have said in this thread about their ability to positively affect the outcome of a warzone (from controlling areas, neutralizing healers, dispersing packs, and more) and just come in and say 'yea people who say snipers are useful are just baddies' (I paraphrased, it was easy with such a simply ignorant statement), shows a lack of thoughtfulness about the issue. Again, likely you know little about the class, or at least, you think you do, but you don't.

 

Regardless, for countless Snipers to suggest they love the class, find it fully viable in pvp and pve, though recognize it could use a little love from developers, well it seems evident the class is very competitive with every other class.

 

If your spreadsheet of what should and shouldn't be doesn't say that, then your spreadsheet is wrong. Most basic analyses of situations by close-minded people are.

[Poe_]

Its interesting to me that the people with actual experience posting on the sniper forums of what other classes are capable of, those that can compare directly, seem to agree with certainty that other classes do everything a sniper can do but better.

 

Personally, i haven't played every class to 50 but i have played more huttball games than any human should and the effect of pretty much every ability i have, i've seen other classes use too. Talking about utility, there is baseline standard bag of tricks and sniper is barely a step above that. Maybe we have some slightly longer effects or reduced cool-downs but its negligible in comparison to things like force leap/run.

Sorry you feel this way, it must be frustrating for you to play your Sniper. Not sure that every other class single target dps as well as us, disperse groups with Cover Pulse ability like us, hazzard healers like us, etc. but if they can, my guess is it is more about the person at the keyboard utilizing their class skills than the class itself. But, we can agree to disagree. Fact is if you are finding the class too difficult to do anything better than other classes, you should probably re-roll. I'm not saying Snipers are perfect the way they are, I routinely remind myself and others that they could use some serious love (mobility, extended defensive/protection opportunities, tech-focused marksman long-range abilties to avoid reliance on armor-mitigated high value attacks, and the list might go on).

 

But again if you're not having fun and feel you're sub par to every other player, it's clearly not the right route for ya

[Crankyhobo]

Sorry you feel this way, it must be frustrating for you to play your Sniper. Fact is if you are finding the class too difficult to do anything better than other classes, you should probably re-roll. But again if you're not having fun and feel you're sub par to every other player, it's clearly not the right route for ya

 

Nah, I enjoy playing my sniper actually, and i am quite successful at it. But my personal success, skill, enjoyment or otherwise has nothing to do with class balance.

 

I'm not saying Snipers are perfect the way they are, they could use some serious love (mobility, extended defensive/protection opportunities, tech-focused marksman long-range abilities to avoid reliance on armor-mitigated high value attacks, and the list might go on).

 

We want the same, except you're not helping the situation.