Why the Darkside Vastly more powerful than The Light

[SirSparhawk]

Then he wore a shirt that said han shot first? Always right...

[Captain_Zone]

And once he made Greedo shoot first he was right. George Lucas is always right. That is because he is the owner and has 100% complete control over the IP.

 

And his inconsistencies and constant rewrites of history have sorely tested my devotion to Star Wars. Seriously, where does it end? And while he is rewriting history, give us something back... like Mara Jade! Yes, it's my crusade. Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

[rashencyberspeed]

Yes ofc the lightside is stronger, good always wins over evil. Wouldnt that explain how dark side always wins? aside from the old republic when the sith destroy the temple and empire beats the republic back and force them to signt a treaty which they didnt have to do. Lets fast forward to the present star wars unniverse where a weakened Palpatine kicks the teeth in of 3 masters and stalemates mace.

 

Then lets fast forward a bit more where right after he fought those 4, Yoda fights him with full power and not only ties but then goes on to say Palpatine cannot be beaten at the moment...Weakened Palpatine beat a fully powered yoda, and before you say no yoda was weakened with the death of so many jedi, bull ****. First of all the jedi forces weakened not his individual power, if that were the case sith with their rule of 2 and luke wouldnt have been very strong.

 

Only after the CHOSEN ONE who was created by a SITH LORD had a year of training? make him strong enough to defeat 2 of the strongest sith ever to exist, we all know heros have to win.

 

And since we are quoting swtor which isnt cannon lets bring in another sith, Galen Marek aka Starkiller, as an apprentice he killed jedi masters with relative ease. Ripped starships out of the sky, and kicked vaders *** on the first try *cough luke skywalker cough*

 

Who said SWTOR wasn't canon?

 

And also, Starkiller had turned to the light side by the time he beat Vader.

[Darth_Leadon]

Oh, Swtor is canon alright, its the flavor that matters..

[Selenial]

Who said SWTOR wasn't canon?

 

And also, Starkiller had turned to the light side by the time he beat Vader.

 

^^ This guys right... Apart from the starkiller bit, starkillers ending is unknown...

 

Also the only part of SWTOR not canon is the fact that there is one of each base class, not thousands....

[Darius-Orin]

Former Jedi who turned to the darkside Exar Kun defeated Luke Skywalker IN SPIRIT and was only defeated by the combined effort of Skywalker's students so yeah I'd say the darkside is stronger if a spirit can defeat Luke.

[VanorDM]

Former Jedi who turned to the darkside Exar Kun defeated Luke Skywalker IN SPIRIT and was only defeated by the combined effort of Skywalker's students...

 

That's not exactly how it happened.

 

He sundered Lukes spirit from his body, and was banished by Lukes students. He didn't defeat Luke in spirit.

 

Also that was in a time before Luke had reached his full potential as a Jedi Grand Master. If Exar would of tried the same thing 10 or so years later it would of been a whole different ball game.

[enigmayshi]

Why is it in these discussions it always de-evolves into simplistic Power Level arguements?

 

So and So beat them so OBVIOUSLY this side is the strongest I mean common, it was just his sheer power, had nothing at all to do with tactics or fighting style, terrain, weapons. Just his sheer power led to victory nothing else, could of sneezed and won.

 

It's rather aggravating, an opponent not as powerful in the force can defeat a stronger opponent through tactics, cunning, clever manuvering ect ect. Just being 'stronger' in the force does not in the slightest guarantee victory over someone not as strong in the force.

 

Dooku makes a statement that actually quantifies the different skillsets.

 

"It is obvious this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with a lightsaber."

 

That statement alone clearly indicates that skill with a lightsaber is not equal to your power or knowledge of the force at all. Also notice how Dooku clearly stated 'Knowledge' of the force not "Power with the force".

Though in that following scene Yoda was still using his knowledge of the force in order to move around far faster and nimbly than he should of been able to. And Dooku could not stop it with his 'Greater Darkside' Power as the OP states.

 

And we have seen in the movies that lightsabers can be used to block certain iconic and powerful force moves, IE Force Lightning(Yes I know the whole Sidious was about to blow Mace's saber out of his hand from the sheer power of 'Sidious's' lightning, the point still stands that the Saber was blocking ALL of that power.)

 

The Darkside is Stronger than the light in areas, and the Lightside is stronger than the darkside in other areas neither one has an all consuming advantage people like the OP try to make it out to be.

 

Such as people have pointed out, the Darkside is stronger than the light when it comes to aggressive offensive moves and powers.

 

Yoda even states the principle of the lightside in Empire Strikes Back, "The force is used for knowledge and defense, never for attack." The entire point of the lightside is to learn grow and defend yourself not to lash out aggressively with the intent to kill.

 

One of the MAJOR disadvantages of the Darkside and has actually been clearly shown by the OP in his own decisive shouting of the Darkside is stronger. Is that practitioners of the Darkside VERY often have a grossly inflated opinion of their own power which leads them into situations that gets them killed, beaten, forced to retreat because they thought they were a god and promptly get proven wrong.

 

Example.

Dooku: "I've become more powerful than any Jedi. Even you!"

Result: Dooku flees for his life from Yoda not three minutes later.

 

Emperor: "Now witness the full power of the darkside! ..........only now, at the end do you understand."

Result: Emperor gets thrown down a shaft because he was so drunk in his own power he failed to sense the impending danger of Vader's conflicted mind.

 

Malak: "You made a mistake coming here, Revan. The Star Forge fuels my command of the dark side. You are no match for me here. And this time you will not escape!"

Result: Malak was owned because lightside/darkside, Revan was simply stronger and more skilled than Malak.

[rashencyberspeed]

Looking at the star wars series, I'm actually starting to wonder if perhaps the most powerful force wielders are people who have achieved redemption. As in turning from the dark to the light.

 

I can think of two examples.

Galen Merak/Starkiller: former Sith apprentice, who was able to defeat powerful Jedi masters as a servant of the dark. When he turned to the light, he became so powerful that he was able to beat Darth Vader and even Emperor Palpatine.

 

Revan: Jedi knight, to Sith lord, and back again. We all know the deal here. He was able to beat Malak despite the latter gaining immense power from dead force users.

 

One could also argue Darth Vader, but since he died in his redemption, we don't know if he would've attained greater power.

Edited March 31, 2012 by rashencyberspeed

[Morticoccus]

It was stated anakin only lost because he was emotional during the fight...while Obi-wan wasnt. While Anakin was more powerful and had better lightsaber skills

 

Actually, by the d20 rules he only won because he possessed the feat that gave him a free attack of opportunity against opponents entering a square he threatens if he has the high ground.

 

I never make a close combat oriented character without going for that one, it's flatfootriffic!

[BrandonSM]

Looking at the star wars series, I'm actually starting to wonder if perhaps the most powerful force wielders are people who have achieved redemption. As in turning from the dark to the light.

 

I can think of two examples.

Galen Merak/Starkiller: former Sith apprentice, who was able to defeat powerful Jedi masters as a servant of the dark. When he turned to the light, he became so powerful that he was able to beat Darth Vader and even Emperor Palpatine.

.

 

Marek didn't beat Palps... thats not canon. All he did was touch Palps and then he blew up.

[Slowpokeking]

It's not the dark side is more powerful, the Sith' way is to do everything to empower themselves. The Jedi do the opposite. For example, Jedi don't use force lightning not because it's dark side skill, but it's against their discipline (never attack). Thus the Sith will be more poweful as individual but never be able to work well together.

[rashencyberspeed]

Marek didn't beat Palps... thats not canon. All he did was touch Palps and then he blew up.

 

Uh... yeah, he did defeat Palpatine. But he opted not to finish him because that would've been turning to the dark (in other words, exactly what palpatine wanted).

[BrandonSM]

Uh... yeah, he did defeat Palpatine. But he opted not to finish him because that would've been turning to the dark (in other words, exactly what palpatine wanted).

 

Uh no he didn't. The game Mechanics are not canon, only cutscenes and the novel are. And in the Novel, Marek only barely layed his hands on Palps and blew up.

[DjJazz]

This is exactly why I like the Gray Jedi.

[rashencyberspeed]

Uh no he didn't. The game Mechanics are not canon, only cutscenes and the novel are. And in the Novel, Marek only barely layed his hands on Palps and blew up.

 

I'll admit I'm more familiar with the game than the book. However, I am still convinced Starkiller put up a fight. (If the fight ended that quickly, as you claim it did, then it shouldn't have been possible for the rebels to escape.)

[BrandonSM]

I'll admit I'm more familiar with the game than the book. However, I am still convinced Starkiller put up a fight. (If the fight ended that quickly, as you claim it did, then it shouldn't have been possible for the rebels to escape.)

 

This is how it went down.

 

 

I'll in fact type the pages.

 

Page 340

 

"A simple double stroke, up and then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrists and shoulers and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked.

 

 

That was The beginning of Vader vs Marek. They both had their moments, but Marek was getting mad because Vader was just toying with him.. dot dot dot. Marek gets angry enough and takes out Vader by using the Dark Side at a limit he's never done before. Dot Dot Dot. And then Vader laughs at him... dot dot dot who cares.

 

 

 

Now for the good part. Sidious does some type of Mental Lockdown on Marek and kinds of brainwashes him with Dark Side Influence. But is interrupted by Kota...

 

Page 347

 

"You, fool!" Snarled the Emperor, sending another wave of Sith Lightning into Kota's back. "He will never be yours!"

Kota fell with his arms upraised, and the apprentic knew that it wasn't over yet. The moment of truth had arrived.

 

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith Lightning into his own body.

 

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed seeing the world through a crack blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

 

"Go!" He hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"

 

The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebelors or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kota ushered them toward the descending ship.

 

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentices reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith Lightning spread to englulfed the two of them, fuled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in a lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through.

 

Dot. Dot. Dot. So basically he intended to kill the Emperor by sacrificing himself and reversing the Emperor's lightning. Then he got interrupted by Imperial Stormtroopers and that whole business. And then Sidious took that chance and basicallly "destroyed" Marek.

 

Seems like the only way people ever defeat Sidious is reversing his own power... kind of weird.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Rebelors.

 

Hehehe Rebelors.

[rashencyberspeed]

This is how it went down.

 

 

I'll in fact type the pages.

 

Page 340

 

"A simple double stroke, up and then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrists and shoulers and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked.

 

 

That was The beginning of Vader vs Marek. They both had their moments, but Marek was getting mad because Vader was just toying with him.. dot dot dot. Marek gets angry enough and takes out Vader by using the Dark Side at a limit he's never done before. Dot Dot Dot. And then Vader laughs at him... dot dot dot who cares.

 

 

 

Now for the good part. Sidious does some type of Mental Lockdown on Marek and kinds of brainwashes him with Dark Side Influence. But is interrupted by Kota...

 

Page 347

 

"You, fool!" Snarled the Emperor, sending another wave of Sith Lightning into Kota's back. "He will never be yours!"

Kota fell with his arms upraised, and the apprentic knew that it wasn't over yet. The moment of truth had arrived.

 

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith Lightning into his own body.

 

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed seeing the world through a crack blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

 

"Go!" He hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"

 

The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebelors or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kota ushered them toward the descending ship.

 

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentices reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith Lightning spread to englulfed the two of them, fuled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in a lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through.

 

Dot. Dot. Dot. So basically he intended to kill the Emperor by sacrificing himself and reversing the Emperor's lightning. Then he got interrupted by Imperial Stormtroopers and that whole business. And then Sidious took that chance and basicallly "destroyed" Marek.

 

Seems like the only way people ever defeat Sidious is reversing his own power... kind of weird.

 

Still seems that Starkiller manage to rattle Palpatine a bit. As always, Palpatine's weakness is his overconfidence.

 

But I guess you were right in the end.

[AHierophant]

the darkside is self defeating and always has been. the sith lost the great hyperspace war because they were already in a internal power struggle before it started. the Brotherhood of darkness looses because one of their own, Darth Bane, tricks them into destruction. the reason Exar Kun is defeated is becuase his apprentice Qul-droma tells the Jedi where he is hiding. Vader and the Palpatine are also examples of this. Vader tries numerous ways to defeat the emperor and take over the Empire. the darkside also kills its users. the reason Palpatine uses clones is because the darkside energies are eating him from inside. its the same story every time.

 

This shouldn't be overlooked, because it's the true reason the dark side loses. This is analogous to a nation using nuclear weapons to put down a revolt within its own borders. It certainly will destroy the uprising because of a superior strength, but it will destroy the nation itself in the process. So goes the dark side.

 

The problem the Sith have always had is that their rage and hatred can't be turned off like spigot. It's just as useful to use against your own allies (or Master) than it is against an enemy.

[lokdron]

Yes the dark side is more powerful but the underlying problem with the dark side is that it turns you insane/corrupts you and it rots your body.

[Nikito]

There is no doubt the anger is more destructive than the equilibrium. But also it is more self-destructive.

[MasterKayote]

Do the Korriban questline. There is a Sith holo that explains it pretty well why the darkside ends up being weaker even though it grants more power, faster.

[Blistrich]

Light... Dark... they take turns.

 

That's the point.

 

Much like Karma, the object is not to have too much of it, or too little of it. "Balance" is the focus of the conflict, and they do take turns. The Jedi have their day. The Sith rise and wipe out all but two of them. The two who survive, the last living Masters, impart their knowledge to a scrub with talent. This man is the herald of the return of the Jedi, and armed with his ability to rend his father's soul free from the Dark Side, he wipes the slate clean.

 

The cycle will continue. The Sith will rise again. That's the hook. That's the "balance".

 

Every coin has two faces. Simply because it lands on heads this time doesn't mean tails is gone for good.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Blistrich

[Hopsinwhat]

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”