Scoundrel Is a Joke

[Karekoala]

assuming equal gear and equal skill:

 

every other class > operative/scoundrel

 

it's sad because before they were nerfed they were pretty balanced, lots of burst but no real sustained dps, but now they've still got no real sustained dps, but they've also got fairly average burst too.

 

I don't know if you or anyone else posting here has actually played Operative PROPERLY since 1.1.1 but if you have then you would notice we can be competitive in 1v1 fights, except against BH/ Trooper. Acid Blade > Hidden Strike > Backstab > Acid Blade > Cloaking Screen > Hidden Strike > Wait for them to use a CC breaker (most people do here) > Shiv > Lacerate > Lacerate

 

If that doesn't kill them then you're fighting a BH/ Trooper or they have a healer/ guard on them. Before you start flaming me, go try it out and tell me I'm wrong.

 

I will agree however that Scoundrel/ Operatives DO need a buff healing wise. I did read in one of the Dev Blogs that there will be a buff to our AoE heal in some way, I believe they will just be changing the way it works so it is used for emergency situations on a short CD.

 

That's all I have to say about that.

[SableShadow]

<snip>

 

I don't even know your stance on, well, anything ... but anyone who thinks they need that many caps in their sig to make their point ... must be wrong.

 

SCOUNDREL

 

IS

 

UNDERPOWERED

 

 

 

 

"Hippy, would you do me a favor ? Stay off my side."

 

Edited February 29, 2012 by SableShadow

[Timolan]

I dont know what your talking about i still consistently see operatives/Scoundrels getting post 250k 300k damage in warzones as well as crazy KDR's. Ive seen multiple operatives go over 50 kills with less than 5 deaths. I still think the damage needs a slight nerf seeing as how i have watched and experienced multiple time an operative knock me/other players down crit away half their health then stun them hit them 2 more times for a total of around 6k then just take them down from 20 percent in 2 hits after they get out of stunlock.

[Guzul]

I played an operative as an healer and and Concealment. IMO they aren't bad but the lack of utility. When I was healer dpsing was all about the primary attack or the grenade becasue all the real attacks are melee range (I count 10m as a melee attack). Who will charge as an healer into the melee just to do some dps and be focus and kill even faster. Oh and the 4m stun not fun for an healer.

 

The concealment is good if you want to do some 1 vs 1, they have the best snare with a 2 sec root outside the resolve bar. The huge problem with this spec is how long it takes to leave combat. Sometime it took me over 30 sec to leave it if I wasn't able to kill anyone. During that time they aren't really useful and they have a poor mobility. If I was snare and it couldn't dispel it, it was nearly gameover. I found myself pretty useless in huttball compare to the BH, SI, SW and even snipers.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Guzul

[SableShadow]

I dont know what your talking about i still consistently see operatives/Scoundrels getting post 250k 300k damage in warzones as well as crazy KDR's. Ive seen multiple operatives go over 50 kills with less than 5 deaths. I still think the damage needs a slight nerf seeing as how i have watched and experienced multiple time an operative knock me/other players down crit away half their health then stun them hit them 2 more times for a total of around 6k then just take them down from 20 percent in 2 hits after they get out of stunlock.

 

That's called "learn to not cc break on the knockdown".

 

You're welcome.

 

In other news, keyboard turning is suboptimal.

[Stormlorr]

I don't know if you or anyone else posting here has actually played Operative PROPERLY since 1.1.1 but if you have then you would notice we can be competitive in 1v1 fights, except against BH/ Trooper. Acid Blade > Hidden Strike > Backstab > Acid Blade > Cloaking Screen > Hidden Strike > Wait for them to use a CC breaker (most people do here) > Shiv > Lacerate > Lacerate

 

If that doesn't kill them then you're fighting a BH/ Trooper or they have a healer/ guard on them. Before you start flaming me, go try it out and tell me I'm wrong.

 

I will agree however that Scoundrel/ Operatives DO need a buff healing wise. I did read in one of the Dev Blogs that there will be a buff to our AoE heal in some way, I believe they will just be changing the way it works so it is used for emergency situations on a short CD.

 

That's all I have to say about that.

 

That is a horrible rotation, do you just kill a dude and hide in a corner for 2 mins?

 

Acid blade> Hidden strike> shiv (allows acid blade to tick) > acid blade >back stab (if you have any alacrity at all they will still be getting up) >lacerate >lacerate>lacerate (it should proc at least once if not ignore)> {debilitate (if needed)> acid blade > backstab > shiv lacerate} or {shiv >lacerate >blast} If they aint dead cloaking screen> {step 1} or {get away cause they have heals}

 

You will take some damage from combat (imagine that) but your less likely to use longer CD's and you get more time to pvp rather than hide in a corner.

[hulkweazel]

I dont know what your talking about i still consistently see operatives/Scoundrels getting post 250k 300k damage in warzones as well as crazy KDR's. Ive seen multiple operatives go over 50 kills with less than 5 deaths. I still think the damage needs a slight nerf seeing as how i have watched and experienced multiple time an operative knock me/other players down crit away half their health then stun them hit them 2 more times for a total of around 6k then just take them down from 20 percent in 2 hits after they get out of stunlock.

If you knew how to read you would have realized this has already been answered many times. L2P before QQing.

[CitizenShady]

To the above person that posted the LEET dps rotation....

 

Yes, unmolested and playing against scrubs scroundrels/ops do just fine.

 

But, play against any decent group and as soon as they pop out on a target they should be taunted and/or that target should be guarded. The stealther should be dotted or tagged so they can't finish the kill and immediately re-enter stealth.

 

When the dust settles, you have a healer that is untouched due to his own cooldowns/survivability or through the help of good teammates and a mediocre dps with very limited utility who is stuck in combat.

 

In regards to OMG MY HEALING IS SO AWESOME !11!!!

 

The true measure of pvp healing is CERTAINLY not when you are farming the other team for 15 mins straight and able to heal unmolested in a corner with perfect rotation to manage energy regen. Scoundrel/Ops healing in such situations is irrelevant.

 

True numbers are only going to be found in evenly matched fights where everyone is in approximately the same gear and possesses the same skill level. From my experience in these "CLASH OF THE BATTLE MASTER PREMADES", healers are immediately marked and focused throughout the fight.

 

And although good scoundrel/ops healers are still effective, I dont think I have ever seen them above 400k healing while Commando/Merc and Sage/Sorc healers are regularly at around 500k even reaching up to 600k.

 

The fact of the matter is that with all factors being equal, Scoundrels/Ops have less utility in the form of escapability and CC than the other 2 healer while relying in a far inferior resource system.

 

Finally, for the "omg nerf ops healing, they cant be killed" crowd

 

IF you can't kill a Scoundrel/Ops healer, it's your own fault. This is entirely a L2P issue. It's on you if you fail to put in the effort to learn the classes, their weakness and strengths. Scoundrel/ Ops healers are a very mobile class and will pillar hump/kite you all day long with their free instant heal under 30% hp. Stop keyboard turning and raise your skill level.

[Karekoala]

That is a horrible rotation, do you just kill a dude and hide in a corner for 2 mins?

 

Acid blade> Hidden strike> shiv (allows acid blade to tick) > acid blade >back stab (if you have any alacrity at all they will still be getting up) >lacerate >lacerate>lacerate (it should proc at least once if not ignore)> {debilitate (if needed)> acid blade > backstab > shiv lacerate} or {shiv >lacerate >blast} If they aint dead cloaking screen> {step 1} or {get away cause they have heals}

 

You will take some damage from combat (imagine that) but your less likely to use longer CD's and you get more time to pvp rather than hide in a corner.

 

If you would read, you would notice this was for a 1v1 situation. And it's better to get Backstab on CD so it comes off faster, doesn't affect the Acid Blade tick at all. No idea what you're on about. Alacrity doesn't affect DoTs or HoTs either, only abilities with a casting time. You don't seem to know what you're talking about really.

[Tiar]

SCOUNDREL

 

IS

 

UNDERPOWERED

 

 

 

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only strong reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not much to say here, it's pretty weak and not worth speccing for pvp/pve {PLEASE NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS INTENDED FOR PVP BALANCE, NOT PVE. THAT'S WHY IT'S IN PVP SECTION.}

 

All three specs SERIOUSLY lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update 2/28/12

FORMER TITLE: Scoundrel is a joke.

New Title: Scoundrel is Underpowered

 

Properly specced scoundrels and Operatives are the only class I have trouble with in pvp. I guess stun-locking people and hitting them consistantly for 4-6k just plain sucks and needs a buff up? There are only 6 people, of whom I know by name, that I regularly run from or try to avoid in pvp matches. 3 of which are scoundrels and 2 are Operatives. As far as medals go, they usually end the match with 7-9 of them. I guess that's not good enough, or perhaps you want double digits in that area?

 

Maybe pve need a rehashing, but from the multiple dirt-naps given to me by scoundrels and operatives alone, I'd say the pvp game is perfectly fine.

[PalawaJoko]

So Scoundrel is underpowered because you can kill **** within one stun?

[Taborpb]

Properly specced scoundrels and Operatives are the only class I have trouble with in pvp. I guess stun-locking people and hitting them consistantly for 4-6k just plain sucks and needs a buff up? There are only 6 people, of whom I know by name, that I regularly run from or try to avoid in pvp matches. 3 of which are scoundrels and 2 are Operatives. As far as medals go, they usually end the match with 7-9 of them. I guess that's not good enough, or perhaps you want double digits in that area?

 

Maybe pve need a rehashing, but from the multiple dirt-naps given to me by scoundrels and operatives alone, I'd say the pvp game is perfectly fine.

 

I am assuming you are a marauder/sentinel. So your argument is that your class counter (5 of 6 people who can kill you) actually kill you; therefore they are perfectly balanced and we can ignore the complaints of numerous other advanced classes, and further ignore legitimate complaints of people who have actually played an op/scoundrel competitively at 50.

 

Perfect logic sir. Let me rebuttal your thought process:

 

I am a scoundrel healer, a marauder who sticks on me can outlast my pillar hump and eventually kill me one on one. Oh noes I need to put blinders on like you and call for sweeping nerfs of your class.

[CitizenShady]

A guy who only dies to 5 or 6 "properly specced" Scoundrels/Ops is calling for nerfs to the class?

 

I guess it goes to show you how bad the average level of pvp is in this game.

 

It's going to be entertaining when rated WZ / Arena roll out and these same people won't be able to break out of the lowest brackets.

 

Someone start making the popcorn, I doubt we will have enough.

[Cuddlezz]

assuming equal gear and equal skill:

 

every other class > operative/scoundrel

 

it's sad because before they were nerfed they were pretty balanced, lots of burst but no real sustained dps, but now they've still got no real sustained dps, but they've also got fairly average burst too.

 

i got 4 shot stunlocked in full champion gear prenerf.

 

This isnt the right thread but i just want bioware to know my guild leader and 2 other of my guildies who i clear 10/10nm in 3 hours with quit the game becuase endgame is so garbage, now i have no one to raid with who i can enjoy myself with.

 

So i went to que for pvp which i havent done in a while cuz once u get BM theres nothing to do, and 7/8 games i joined i was already losing by 3-4 points in huttball or i was in the second round and losing in voidstar, so i hopped on my republic alt hoping for better luck and i had a premade of level 10's who were all buddies and have no idea how to play the game, Oh i almosr forgot the 4 point enemy lead in huttball i had prior to that.

 

Also why make only huttball faction vs faction? it just makes republic masters at voidstar and civil war, (even though they take no skill whatsoever and are more boring than working at a grocery store checkout) and makes sith just want easy valor in illum and huttball, most of the good pvpers on my server are rerolling republic, i would do this as well except i will just be playing a bunch of ******* all the time and thats not very fun, so please make some arena so people can enjoy something fun and challenging

 

I am 100% most definatly not paying for any more time after my 3 months run out unless there is something new out, im sure operations are going to suck for a long time to come but pvp is the foundation of all MMO's and its broken as ****. (im not ************ about class balance becuase it is actually pretty good) but the entire system is totally broken FIX YOUR DAMN GAME, also i played mass effect 1 and 2 but now i dont want to buy 3 becuase im afraid i will spend 60$ on another EA profiteering project with pretty lasers and voice chat... Sigh

Edited February 29, 2012 by Cuddlezz

[Mannic]

Ops/Scoundrels and Deception Sins/Shadows need buffed.

 

Melee DPS classes require twice as much skill to play well as the ranged DPS classes. And before you even think of objecting to that statement, I have both a Merc and an Assassin. In a full, active Warzone I can blast 450K damage on my Merc while mashing my head on the keyboard. With the Sin I feel good if I do half that while being kicked, slowed, and "target out of range"d all over the Warzone. On my Merc I am dangerous to all other classes I face. On my Sin there are classes that can literally ignore me because I just don't do enough damage to kill them unless I can be on them for 30 seconds unmolested.

[Karekoala]

To the above person that posted the LEET dps rotation....

 

Yes, unmolested and playing against scrubs scroundrels/ops do just fine.

 

But, play against any decent group and as soon as they pop out on a target they should be taunted and/or that target should be guarded. The stealther should be dotted or tagged so they can't finish the kill and immediately re-enter stealth.

 

When the dust settles, you have a healer that is untouched due to his own cooldowns/survivability or through the help of good teammates and a mediocre dps with very limited utility who is stuck in combat.

 

In regards to OMG MY HEALING IS SO AWESOME !11!!!

 

The true measure of pvp healing is CERTAINLY not when you are farming the other team for 15 mins straight and able to heal unmolested in a corner with perfect rotation to manage energy regen. Scoundrel/Ops healing in such situations is irrelevant.

 

True numbers are only going to be found in evenly matched fights where everyone is in approximately the same gear and possesses the same skill level. From my experience in these "CLASH OF THE BATTLE MASTER PREMADES", healers are immediately marked and focused throughout the fight.

 

And although good scoundrel/ops healers are still effective, I dont think I have ever seen them above 400k healing while Commando/Merc and Sage/Sorc healers are regularly at around 500k even reaching up to 600k.

 

The fact of the matter is that with all factors being equal, Scoundrels/Ops have less utility in the form of escapability and CC than the other 2 healer while relying in a far inferior resource system.

 

Finally, for the "omg nerf ops healing, they cant be killed" crowd

 

IF you can't kill a Scoundrel/Ops healer, it's your own fault. This is entirely a L2P issue. It's on you if you fail to put in the effort to learn the classes, their weakness and strengths. Scoundrel/ Ops healers are a very mobile class and will pillar hump/kite you all day long with their free instant heal under 30% hp. Stop keyboard turning and raise your skill level.

 

I don't know if you play an Operative or not, personally I have tried every spec, both in PvE and PvP and have been playing avidly since beta. That rotation I gave wasn't an in-depth guide or anything, it was just a push in the right direction of how to beat someone in a 1v1, obviously you're going to need to use Sever Tendon or interrupt a spell or something somewhere in there, unless they are AFK or just really bad (yes, I have seen some people who just panic and don't know what to do when I jump them from stealth).

 

So yeah, it wasn't a detailed guide, I'm not claiming to be the best Operative, I just have sufficient experience with one to make a valid argument.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Karekoala

[illgot]

You need to add: If played well (against scrubs), they are still very good.

 

 

 

nah they can be great players... just in crappy gear. As long as their gear is worse than yours your good

[namelless]

You don't have instant whirlwind as a healer. By the way, even if you did have it, whirlwind heals its victim. You don't have root on Overload as a healer. You probably don't have the bubble speed increase on any spec, since it costs 4 talent points to get, and is only useful for griefing scoundrels in 1v1.

 

Okay i looked at my spec, and you're right about instant whirlwind and the 20% speed boost, i'll edit those parts out. You are however wrong about Overload with root, as i do have it included in my spec.

 

Except that the sorcerer HoT has a 6 second cooldown, heals for less and doesn't stack - meaning they do no significant healing unless they are standing still, unlike Scoundrel/Operatives.

 

1. Scoundrels can only heal on the run(excluding srmp) if they get a lot of lucky UH procs from SRMP/Blasterwhip or the target has under 30% hp and even then emergency medpac heals for very little(as it should)

2. Without UH, scoundrels have one castable heal and if that is interrupted, you are unable to heal yourself(excluding srmp), compared to a sorcerer who has two castable heals and a channeled heal

 

SRMP is a nice healing ability and yes it is better than the sorcerer's equivalent, but one positive in a sea of negatives does not make it equal to the sorcerer. Overall, healing scoundrels have way less utility and adaptability than their sorcerer counterparts.

 

Stripping sorcerers of force speed and giving scoundrels a tech equivalent and a 100% chance to get a UH proc from SRMP would go a long way towards balancing the classes(healing wise).

Edited February 29, 2012 by namelless

[aypolo]

Okay i looked at my spec, and you're right about instant whirlwind and the 20% speed boost, i'll edit those parts out. You are however wrong about Overload with root, as i do have it included in my spec.

 

 

 

1. Scoundrels can only heal on the run(excluding srmp) if they get a lot of lucky UH procs from SRMP/Blasterwhip or the target has under 30% hp and even then emergency medpac heals for very little(as it should)

2. Without UH, scoundrels have one castable heal and if that is interrupted, you are unable to heal yourself(excluding srmp), compared to a sorcerer who has two castable heals and a channeled heal

 

SRMP is a nice healing ability and yes it is better than the sorcerer's equivalent, but one positive in a sea of negatives does not make it equal to the sorcerer. Overall, healing scoundrels have way less utility and adaptability than their sorcerer counterparts.

 

Stripping sorcerers of force speed and giving scoundrels a tech equivalent and a 100% chance to get a UH proc from SRMP would go a long way towards balancing the classes(healing wise).

 

Very nice points. Added them to the first post, with you quoted.

Thank you

[SliggXx]

 

In regards to OMG MY HEALING IS SO AWESOME !11!!!

 

The true measure of pvp healing is CERTAINLY not when you are farming the other team for 15 mins straight and able to heal unmolested in a corner with perfect rotation to manage energy regen. Scoundrel/Ops healing in such situations is irrelevant.

 

True numbers are only going to be found in evenly matched fights where everyone is in approximately the same gear and possesses the same skill level. From my experience in these "CLASH OF THE BATTLE MASTER PREMADES", healers are immediately marked and focused throughout the fight.

 

And although good scoundrel/ops healers are still effective, I dont think I have ever seen them above 400k healing while Commando/Merc and Sage/Sorc healers are regularly at around 500k even reaching up to 600k.

 

The fact of the matter is that with all factors being equal, Scoundrels/Ops have less utility in the form of escapability and CC than the other 2 healer while relying in a far inferior resource system.

 

I assume this is in reference to me.

 

For one, how do you know how my stats are generated? I am not sure what games you are playing and under what circumstances, but my highest healing totals are almost always against premades when there are stalemates. I position well enough to avoid being targeted constantly and pre-kite as much as possible, watching the battle and behind me to ensure I am able to go unmolested. Still though, I am almost always tanking SOMEONE, if not two or three people. That is one reason why scoundrels work so well against good groups because I can keep people HoT'd and spam EMP and Triage on the run if I can't get free. Fight or Flight helps enormously because I can use DA and get right back in the battle. So, please don't try and tell me that I can't pump out good healing numbers against pre-mades. I had nearly 600K in healing Alderaan/Civil War last night against two pre-made groups that are extremely successful and would be on any server.

 

If you have never seen a Scoundrel above 400K healing, you have some BAD scoundrel healers. The only time I am under 400K healing in voidstar is when my team speed caps every door and doesn't try and farm medals in the last room. Otherwise, I am ALWAYS above 500K, as Imperial groups tend to run high DPS builds on Helm of Graush. And I am not the only one, there are 3-4 Scoundrels on the server that do what I do.

 

Again, I think there is some balancing that needs to be done, but I think your experiences simply do not line up with mine.

[Populism]

lol this thread.

[mystbladex]

There is a scoundral healer on my server and all I got to say is that he is very very good. He moves so much and is almost impossible to kill unless focused by 3-4 people.

 

My hats off to Captian Beleg

[TyrantLeader]

Not a joke - Luvpie.

 

enuff said

[aypolo]

lol this thread.

 

Thanks . . .

[_Marou_]

What they should do is add utility or utility counters to the base IA/Smuggler class. It would help snipers and operatives, since the primary issue on both of them is lack of utility and utility counters.