Scoundrel Is a Joke

[Caeliux]

Scoundrels and Ops are downright amazing.

 

^

 

/endthread

[Cataphractone]

uhh, how about invisibility?

 

You know how hard it is to drop combat in this game?

 

I am fine in 2 out of 3 warzones because my lack of a gap closer isn't a hinderance. In huttball I am nearly worthless.

 

And Assassin's have stealth AND sprint, and if specced for it a pull.

 

I replied before your edit, but like I said, my damage is NOT the problem. I can kill people just fine. THere are a handful of people on my server that give me any trouble in 1v1s, but the game isn't based around 1v1s. It is based around teams, and my class isn't not very good for the team in Huttball.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Cataphractone

[MashTactics]

You know how hard it is to drop combat in this game?

 

I am fine in 2 out of 3 warzones because my lack of a gap closer isn't a hinderance. In huttball I am nearly worthless.

 

And Assassin's have stealth AND sprint, and if specced for it a pull.

 

This I agree with as a very serious issue.

 

Dropping combat takes a long time, and normally it wouldn't be a big deal... except that a huge portion of Scoundrel/Op DPS comes from the opener that can only be used from stealth.

 

This makes Cave Johnson very sad.

[MorgonKara]

yeah fighting isn't all that useful in huttball if you look at the objectives. the classes with the most mobility are the best on that map because the goal is obviously to just get the ball to the endzone. in deathmatch situations like open world operatives are monsters. if you work with a teammate and sneak attack/backstab people im sure your kill count would be quite brutal. Edited February 27, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Foenixz]

assuming equal gear and equal skill:

 

every other class > operative/scoundrel

 

it's sad because before they were nerfed they were pretty balanced, lots of burst but no real sustained dps, but now they've still got no real sustained dps, but they've also got fairly average burst too.

 

Wow I own most people on my Op. And pre nerf killing within the initial stun WAS OP and I played one

[MashTactics]

Wow I own most people on my Op. And pre nerf killing within the initial stun WAS OP and I played one

 

Don't take his word for it. He's used to playing in the 10-49 bracket, so suddenly playing against people who don't have Downs was probably a shocking experience.

[Cataphractone]

Wow I own most people on my Op. And pre nerf killing within the initial stun WAS OP and I played one

 

If the game was based around 1v1s, I would be the king of my server.

[warkat]

assuming equal gear and equal skill:

 

every other class > operative/scoundrel

 

it's sad because before they were nerfed they were pretty balanced, lots of burst but no real sustained dps, but now they've still got no real sustained dps, but they've also got fairly average burst too.

 

stab stab dead vanish stab stab dead ya pre nerf was "pretty Balanced":rolleyes:

[Dboyyy]

Was said in this thread already. OPS/SCR are fine for players that have skill. Ask the IMPs on my server How balanced they think SCR are.

 

 

 

D,

[namelless]

As a healing sorcerer i have:

-A never ending slow(Affliction specced)

-A long ranged slow(Force slow)

-An Aoe Knockback + root(Specced)

-A castable 8 second stun(breaks on damage)

-A long ranged four second stun(electrocute)

-A personal shield that can be applied to anyone(Static Barrier)

-A 150% speed boost for three seconds(force speed)

-An ability to grapple friendly players(Extricate)

 

As a healing scoundrel i have:

-One short ranged slow(Tendon blast)

-A four second melee ranged stun that locks me in place(Dirty kick)

-An Aoe stun that breaks on damage(Flash grenade)

-An in combat stealth that breaks on damage, has a long cd and leaves a 100% healing debuff both received and dealt(i.e useless for 10 seconds, unless dps specced)

-A personal shield that cannot be applied to anyone else and absorbs very little(Defensive screen)

-A three second immunity to auto-attack, doesn't absorb tech or force powers(Dodge)

-Unlimited Instant cast heals(very low amount) when players are below 30% health(Emergency medpac)

 

Both classes can:

-remove dots, stuns, slows(tech for scoundrels, force for sorcerers)

-Have a HoT spell(Scoundrel version is moderately more powerful and doesn't have a cd)

 

I may have forgotten a few things, but overall, I'm pretty damn sure Scoundrel healing is gimped in comparison to Sorcerers/Sages. Still i doubt this will stop the "LOLZ my friend is Haxorz scoundrel heals, obvs u need to L2P NEWB!"

Edited February 29, 2012 by namelless

[hulkweazel]

As a healing sorcerer i have:

-A never ending slow(Affliction specced)

-A long ranged slow(Force slow)

-An Aoe Knockback + root(Specced)

-An instant 8 second stun(breaks on damage)

-A long ranged four second stun(electrocute)

-A personal shield that can be applied to anyone with a 20% speed boost

-A 150% speed boost for three seconds(force speed)

-An ability to grapple friendly players(Extricate)

 

As a healing scoundrel i have:

-One short ranged slow(Tendon blast)

-A four second melee ranged stun that locks me in place(Dirty kick)

-An Aoe stun that breaks on damage(Flash grenade)

-An in combat stealth that breaks on damage, has a long cd and leaves a 100% healing debuff(unless dps specced)

-A personal shield that cannot be applied to anyone else and absorbs very little(Defensive screen)

-A three second immunity to auto-attack, doesn't absorb tech or force powers(Dodge)

-Unlimited Instant cast heals(very low amount) when players are below 30% health(Emergency medpac)

 

Both classes can:

-remove dots, stuns, slows(tech for scoundrels, force for sorcerers)

-Have a HoT spell(Scoundrel version is moderately more powerful)

 

I may have forgotten a few things, but overall, I'm pretty damn sure Scoundrel healing is gimped in comparison to Sorcerers/Sages. Still i doubt this will stop the "LOLZ my friend is Haxorz scoundrel heals, obvs u need to L2P NEWB!"

Good overview, but also keep in mind cooldowns on the abilities which is where the difference really shows. Sorcs have 20 second cooldown on bubble, 30 second on sprint and 20 on AoE knockback stun.

 

Ops have a 1 minute cooldown on Evasion, 45 second cooldown on shield, and 3 minute cooldown on Cloaking Screen. Not to mention, Evasion is pretty much useless in PvP.

[Teabaker]

Yep, they need a buff. Especialyl if rated Warzones are coming. No Survivability, no strong burst (at least not to make up for the complete lack of utility), no taunt, no guard, no gap closer. Edited February 27, 2012 by Teabaker

[Kunovega]

Yep, they need a buff. Especialyl if rated Warzones are coming. No Provability, no strong burst (at least not to make up for the complete lack of utility), no taunt, no guard, no gap closer.

 

same can be said for arsenal spec mercs

 

ops > arsenal merc

 

ops at least have invis but lack any other utility

[Cataphractone]

same can be said for arsenal spec mercs

 

ops > arsenal merc

 

ops at least have invis but lack any other utility

 

 

Spec pyro on your merc and own.

[Humankeg]

Since this is a team based game (is how everyone so delicately likes to put it) I consider classes that bring no utility to a team fight, useless.

 

Ofcourse operatives and scoundrels can perform well, any class can, against worse geared and or less skilled players. But going against real PvPers that know who and how to shut down important people, such as healers, hard dps and tough tanks, the operative/scoundrel really is mediocre at best.

 

All you can remember is that one time when the BM ops took you down in a cc chain, not realizing he was full BM geared, not realizing he had rakata stim and adrenal popped, not realizing you were in leveling gear not realizing a sniper shot u as well, not realizing he might have been better than u? (because it is possible, there's always someone better than you in this game, awlays) etc.. Selective memory.

 

Operatives and scoundrels dont need a nerf, but a slight buff in either utility, sustained dps or survivability.

 

Sawbones/medicine is terrible, if u compare it to sage/sorc trooper/bh healers.

Here's where selective memory comes inte play again.

 

You probably saw this one scoundrel doing hideous amounts of healing, not knowing he was the only healer in ur team, not knowing he had guard, not knowing enemy team were scrubs.

 

its simple, combare utility and survivability between the classes, pros and cons. And u will soon come to realize why ppl that play ops and sounds complain.....

 

over and out.

 

TLDR; when my class could kill anyone in my opening stun solo, that was purely my skill doing that. Now that I can't 3 shot everyone, my class sucks so bad its unplayable.

[astrolite]

Good overview, but also keep in mind cooldowns on the abilities which is where the difference really shows. Sorcs have 20 second cooldown on bubble, 30 second on sprint and 20 on AoE knockback stun.

 

Ops have a 1 minute cooldown on Evasion, 45 second cooldown on shield, and 3 minute cooldown on Cloaking Screen. Not to mention, Evasion is pretty much useless in PvP.

 

 

Interview with Gabe Amantangelo:

 

 

10 minutes in he discusses the concealment operative nerf. He talks about them having a scoring system for abilities and classes overall. The concealment nerf was due to incorrect scoring and missing data (that is what he says).

 

Now, when you lay out Sorc healing vs Operative healing, you just have to wonder what Operatives have that makes their score on par with Sorc healing.

[Metallistic]

@ People, who say Scoundrels/Operatives suck.

 

You have not faced a really GOOD one. Instead of whining like sissies just because you don't kill people with your opener anymore, learn to play better. The nerf was very much needed and it weeded out all of the scrubs who rolled the class just for the sake of it being overpowered. Now we can see the result.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Metallistic

[Cataphractone]

TLDR; when my class could kill anyone in my opening stun solo, that was purely my skill doing that. Now that I can't 3 shot everyone, my class sucks so bad its unplayable.

 

@ People, who say Scoundrels/Operatives suck.

 

You have not faced a really GOOD one. Instead of whining like sissies just because you don't kill people with your opener anymore, learn to play better. The nerf was very much needed and it weeded out all of the scrubs who rolled the class just for the sake of it being overpowered. Now we can see the result.

 

 

 

Damage is NOT the problem with operatives/scoundrels.

 

Please read the rest of the thread.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Cataphractone

[Shouku]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi

 

I play a scoundrel, scrapper and a Jedi Guardian Tank Spec.

 

I made the scrapper after all the hoopla came to light and after I got tired of them owning me on my tank in about 3-4 secs flat. afterall, a tank in tank gear is supposed to be a tank, not a squishy reminding me of playing a WoW mage in pvp without even a manashield up.

 

Now they are both 50, the JG is better geared almost BM (58), while my Scoundrel has just a couple champ pieces (rank 43).

 

I do not use stims or adrenals for pvp on either one at this time. Probably will in future, but not yet.

 

JG is Tongku, the scrapper is Cike, both on Wound in the Force server, repub side.

 

Dear sir, after playing both sides of this I just wanna tell you, that ALL of you and yours are full of utter sh**.

 

I OWN the JG mirror class even after these nerfs, undergeared (by now i know what imp BM gear looks like), and without stims / adrenals.

 

Any of you that tell me otherwise need to seriously go to roll other classes or just quit.

 

Above, I have provided you with my toons names, server, etc. feel free to hit me up for lessons, we can work out an ingame deal for ingame credits. I play mostly around peak times, Pacific Standard Time.

 

BTW, playing a scrapper in its current state, is AMAZING in comparison with my JG Tank. Tank requires a pre-made and a pocket healer for full effectiveness to start, a scrapper needs only another body of any sorts or flavor for a target to be distracted.

 

And dont even get me started on Ilum PvP, between stealth and some ranged abilities I gain valor on average 4x faster then the JG for so many numerous reaons its not even funny thinking about it, just gets me pissed at BW on how in hell did their testers not catch such an idiotically huge imbalance.

 

IMHO, after playing a scrapper, they need to be seriously nerfed not juts thrown this little drop of water in the ocean, and their burst stabilized and reworked into a sustained DPS more suited to PvE Ops content. OR tanks need to become more tanklike and have at least some sort of defenses against internal / elemental dmg which they currently lack.

[Wattser]

PvP DPS: Opportunistic, good burst, gurella tactics

PvP Heals: HoTs cant counter damage, all healing revolve around a single interruptable skill, lacks healing utility skills, better choices available

 

PvE DPS: Poor sustained DPS, either low numbers or lack of energy

PvE Heals: Very good 1-2 target healer, lacks healing utility skills, better choices available

 

 

Good players know tactics and skill utilization, however all classes have their limits, Scoundrel/Ops just hit theirs fastest.

[astrolite]

Hi

 

<snip>

 

 

TLDR version for everyone: My tank doesn't DPS like my scoundrel and I need heals to be a good tank. Please nerf scoundrels.

 

I think he is serious too.

[poulpatine]

^

lah.

 

/endthread

This. And we have the same issues on sniper/gs forums. Our class sux no utility blah. Major l2p issues. Still funny considering ops are piss easy to play. lol.

 

Some acs have way too much utility compared to others, nothing new here, hopefully bw will fix that once rated play is available.

Edited February 27, 2012 by poulpatine

[Nazguapo]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4079845078

I have nothing to add.

[Maxipad]

People in this thread saying that DPS Operative/Scoundrel is not competitive must be truly terrible. Edited February 27, 2012 by Maxipad

[Drunkasaurus]

Hi

 

I play a scoundrel, scrapper and a Jedi Guardian Tank Spec.

 

I made the scrapper after all the hoopla came to light and after I got tired of them owning me on my tank in about 3-4 secs flat. afterall, a tank in tank gear is supposed to be a tank, not a squishy reminding me of playing a WoW mage in pvp without even a manashield up.

 

Now they are both 50, the JG is better geared almost BM (58), while my Scoundrel has just a couple champ pieces (rank 43).

 

I do not use stims or adrenals for pvp on either one at this time. Probably will in future, but not yet.

 

JG is Tongku, the scrapper is Cike, both on Wound in the Force server, repub side.

 

Dear sir, after playing both sides of this I just wanna tell you, that ALL of you and yours are full of utter sh**.

 

I OWN the JG mirror class even after these nerfs, undergeared (by now i know what imp BM gear looks like), and without stims / adrenals.

 

Any of you that tell me otherwise need to seriously go to roll other classes or just quit.

 

Above, I have provided you with my toons names, server, etc. feel free to hit me up for lessons, we can work out an ingame deal for ingame credits. I play mostly around peak times, Pacific Standard Time.

 

BTW, playing a scrapper in its current state, is AMAZING in comparison with my JG Tank. Tank requires a pre-made and a pocket healer for full effectiveness to start, a scrapper needs only another body of any sorts or flavor for a target to be distracted.

 

And dont even get me started on Ilum PvP, between stealth and some ranged abilities I gain valor on average 4x faster then the JG for so many numerous reaons its not even funny thinking about it, just gets me pissed at BW on how in hell did their testers not catch such an idiotically huge imbalance.

 

IMHO, after playing a scrapper, they need to be seriously nerfed not juts thrown this little drop of water in the ocean, and their burst stabilized and reworked into a sustained DPS more suited to PvE Ops content. OR tanks need to become more tanklike and have at least some sort of defenses against internal / elemental dmg which they currently lack.

 

This is more of a problem with Guardians being incredibly underpowered, than scoundrel being OP. If you played a powertech or merc, you'd see a world of difference.