The current underperformance of Operatives/Scoundrels and their reputation

[Zhaker]

The nerfs were premature as a Sith Sorc Healer, I didnt mind their burst, and their burst was comparable to Assassin/Shadow and also to Sentinel/Marauders. But nerfing them was just bad because bad players cant defend themselves from a 1v1 situation. In short they should have been the DPS kings for 1v1, otherwise I see little to no reason to rolling one up except for the story.

 

It's a shame really, I didnt mind their DPS, but I fear this MMO is going to become as **** as WAR when the Mythic Staff kept doing what the forums screams at them to do.

 

Oh wait the Mythic PvP staff are responsible for the PvP content in SWTOR.. lol.

[serjara]

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and for your comments. To be honest I expected to recieve a lot of "L2P" and "QQ" comments and am really surprised and happy that there hasn't been a single one so far.

I really hope that Bioware will read this thread, too.

 

 

in that case let me keep up the quota ^^

 

I play an Operative at rank 58 (no battlemaster gear , i have like t1 pve crap for the setbonus , so don't you dare tell me i'm overgeared)

 

i direct this at every Operative out there that is still concealment specced... learn 2 go.d dam.ned play

 

 

 

regularly (i.e NOT every once a full moon but literally EVERY battleground)... let's take huttball for example...

I have :

 

-crits for at least 4-4,7 k on full battlemaster geared war heroes that don't have a bubble on them (yes i use adrenals , rakata stim and get the berserker buff a lot ... sue me)

 

-top the dmg with at the very least 350 k (i die horribly much) to 480 k ~ (things go my way)

 

-have healers in full battlemaster gear using every cc available just to sprint away from me , ignore their own team and cower in terror somewhere else until i switch targets/get cc'ed .... or .... die horribly in about 10-20 seconds ... depending on the healer

 

-am literally unkillable in a 1on1 that i open from stealth for anything that isn't a tank-specced tank , and i only lose to really really good ones

 

-know where my dispel button is which immediately breaks 2 entire classes in any 1on1 situation because i can dispel the only thing able to hurt me from either one (did i mention that my class is the only one in the game which can pick and choose their fights ?)

 

-i can and do 4-5 shot people with 15k hp if i get lucky crits

 

-can stun people from 100-20 because biowares "nerf" was a huge buff (only optimists think their resolve bar is "half full" after 1 stun)

 

-actually know how to press 2 butons that ensure you can never kick me down something unless there's an actual lag spike ....ever

 

 

 

your dreadful "underperformance" since i was nerfed ?

 

-i rarely get the 5k crit medal these days ... yeah that's it

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you actually think concealment operatives (the burst spec) lacks any damage you are a bad player

 

period

 

there is no discussion ... it's you

 

 

 

 

so stop pestering us operatives ... it's fine the way it is.

we're perfectly fine now with the dmg scaling and surge nerfs , if you fail with it you lack equip ... or more likely skill

end of story

 

 

 

 

 

sincerely ...

someone who has more than 1 keybind and doesn't turn with their keyboard:rolleyes:

 

 

/rant

[Acindo]

What a joke.

 

I know for a fact every regular Republic PvPer on my server knows an Operative called Meggles. Every Rep knows to be careful of him and they try to focus fire him and kill him usually with little success.

 

When he specs heals he easily tops WZs as well.

 

All you Operatives/Scoundrels that think you can't perform well are seriously just BAD players. Very very bad.

 

I really should level my Op come to think of it.

[azmundai]

ok here is my thoughts on the operative:

 

1. I think the only reason they were nerfed to death was because they were the direct counter to the fotm sorc class, and with so many sorc's posting nerf threads bw just went with the majority.

 

2. Now post-nerf they are terrible, i can easily kill them with my juggy and with my assassin with 70%+ of my hp remaining even when they get the jump on me from stealth.

 

3. Pve wise they are terrible, they have zero sustained dps, they are not welcome in any raids i run because having one in the raid is like being a man down.

 

I just don't know why anyone would play one right now over any of the other classes (except sniper which is probably even worse)

 

sustained dps in raids is pathetic for sure. did ev just last night .. was obviously easy enough that it wasn't an issue .. but yea im glad there wasnt a dps meter .. id have to hang myself.

 

I keep telling myself when I get more gear Ill get a 5k crit .. from stealth .. you know with my opener that is only from stealth .. but im not holding my breath either. I wont likely have full rakata mods anytime soon so ..

 

other than that though I think its a good class .. if you have a good group. it is probably one of the worst classes in a bad group though.

Edited February 27, 2012 by azmundai

[ShadowOfVey]

I think just making it so it doesn't take an hour and a half to leave combat so you can restealth without having to blow a cooldown would go a long way towards helping the viability of the class in pvp.

 

I understand there should be some delay but it shouldn't be anything like this.

[Tokosteef]

What a joke.

 

I know for a fact every regular Republic PvPer on my server knows an Operative called Meggles. Every Rep knows to be careful of him and they try to focus fire him and kill him usually with little success.

 

When he specs heals he easily tops WZs as well.

 

All you Operatives/Scoundrels that think you can't perform well are seriously just BAD players. Very very bad.

 

I really should level my Op come to think of it.

 

Can you imagine what an insane player he would be if he rolled a Sorcerer/Marauder/Powertech? Just saying.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Tokosteef

[Xippin]

in that case let me keep up the quota ^^

 

I play an Operative at rank 58 (no battlemaster gear , i have like t1 pve crap for the setbonus , so don't you dare tell me i'm overgeared)

 

i direct this at every Operative out there that is still concealment specced... learn 2 go.d dam.ned play

 

 

 

regularly (i.e NOT every once a full moon but literally EVERY battleground)... let's take huttball for example...

I have :

 

-crits for at least 4-4,7 k on full battlemaster geared war heroes that don't have a bubble on them (yes i use adrenals , rakata stim and get the berserker buff a lot ... sue me)

 

-top the dmg with at the very least 350 k (i die horribly much) to 480 k ~ (things go my way)

 

-have healers in full battlemaster gear using every cc available just to sprint away from me , ignore their own team and cower in terror somewhere else until i switch targets/get cc'ed .... or .... die horribly in about 10-20 seconds ... depending on the healer

 

-am literally unkillable in a 1on1 that i open from stealth for anything that isn't a tank-specced tank , and i only lose to really really good ones

 

-know where my dispel button is which immediately breaks 2 entire classes in any 1on1 situation because i can dispel the only thing able to hurt me from either one (did i mention that my class is the only one in the game which can pick and choose their fights ?)

 

-i can and do 4-5 shot people with 15k hp if i get lucky crits

 

-can stun people from 100-20 because biowares "nerf" was a huge buff (only optimists think their resolve bar is "half full" after 1 stun)

 

-actually know how to press 2 butons that ensure you can never kick me down something unless there's an actual lag spike ....ever

 

 

 

your dreadful "underperformance" since i was nerfed ?

 

-i rarely get the 5k crit medal these days ... yeah that's it

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you actually think concealment operatives (the burst spec) lacks any damage you are a bad player

 

period

 

there is no discussion ... it's you

 

 

 

 

so stop pestering us operatives ... it's fine the way it is.

we're perfectly fine now with the dmg scaling and surge nerfs , if you fail with it you lack equip ... or more likely skill

end of story

 

 

 

 

 

sincerely ...

someone who has more than 1 keybind and doesn't turn with their keyboard:rolleyes:

 

 

/rant

 

I believe it's less about the damage we do, and more about what we bring OTHER then damage. 350-450k damage is nothing special, i see several classes do 450-550k damage (Commando/Gunslinger/Guardian/sentinel/shadow in my guild are all consistantly good for 350k+ damage while the commando and gunslinger are typically good for 450k+ damage). So our damage is on par, that's great, the issue he is bringing to the table is what we lack in utility when compared to other classes with knockbacks/gap closers. I can very easily top the damage charts, but that's all it is, 400k+ damage done. I have no other method of assisting my teammates outside of damage. Where as my vigilance guardian which I can do the same damage on, has taunts, pushes, leaps, and guard and if I so choose, I can switch to force sweep spec and drop 4.5-5k AoE sweeps (Same damage you do, but I can do it on multiple people, doesn't require stealth, and I don't have to chase my target down to do it, I just leap to him, and the "it can only be done once a minute!" is BS. I don't need the adrenals/expertise buff to do it. I was already getting 4k+ force sweeps at level 30, all going from 30-50 did was let me do it every 21 seconds instead of every 57)

 

Currently, our damage is fine, but when it comes to rated warzones we will be lacking because while we do nice damage, our utility is lacking and several other classes are far better suited then we are for competative pvp.

 

Compare our tranquilizing dart to assissins same ability, ours white bars them...the assassins doesn't. So they can essentially keep someone out of a fight for 16 seconds if the person doesn't want to blow their cc breaker on a sap(Sap -> dps other target, vanish, sap -> dps other target), where as we white bar them at 8 seconds, not to mention they have taunts, guard, sprint and still backstab for 4.5k and their backstab has no cooldown, plus their energy regen isn't affected if they blow it all to do burst.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention they also have an instant cast 8 second in combat CC through hybriding as a melee dps.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Xippin

[serjara]

I believe it's less about the damage we do, and more about what we bring OTHER then damage. 350-450k damage is nothing special, i see several classes do 450-550k damage (Commando/Gunslinger/Guardian/sentinel/shadow in my guild are all consistantly good for 350k+ damage while the commando and gunslinger are typically good for 450k+ damage). So our damage is on par, that's great, the issue he is bringing to the table is what we lack in utility when compared to other classes with knockbacks/gap closers. I can very easily top the damage charts, but that's all it is, 400k+ damage done. I have no other method of assisting my teammates outside of damage. Where as my vigilance guardian which I can do the same damage on, has taunts, pushes, leaps, and guard and if I so choose, I can switch to force sweep spec and drop 4.5-5k AoE sweeps (Same damage you do, but I can do it on multiple people, doesn't require stealth, and I don't have to chase my target down to do it, I just leap to him, and the "it can only be done once a minute!" is BS. I don't need the adrenals/expertise buff to do it. I was already getting 4k+ force sweeps at level 30, all going from 30-50 did was let me do it every 21 seconds instead of every 57)

 

the value of an operative ... are you kidding me ?

 

i can legally cheat in huttball for one thing (you can intervene stealthed people ... go figure that one out)

 

groupstealth voidstar/alderaan anyone ?

 

depending on number of dedicated healers/equip/skill and if premade or not ... i can singlehandedly kill 100 % of healing in the enemy team or cut it down by a very large margin either way

 

i can also make any other damage dealer(s) that think they do damage "drop the soap" for an entire bg ... and my class couldn't care less if you have guard and a pocket healer for that :>

 

 

 

sure it's not as immediately apparent as 1) give guard 2) ??? 3) profit

doesn't mean me butchering all of your ranged dds and healers in a bloodbath in 30 seconds doesn't help my team , it's just indirect support (as far as they're concerned)

[HoosierDuke]

in that case let me keep up the quota ^^

 

I play an Operative at rank 58 (no battlemaster gear , i have like t1 pve crap for the setbonus , so don't you dare tell me i'm overgeared)

 

i direct this at every Operative out there that is still concealment specced... learn 2 go.d dam.ned play

 

 

 

regularly (i.e NOT every once a full moon but literally EVERY battleground)... let's take huttball for example...

I have :

 

-crits for at least 4-4,7 k on full battlemaster geared war heroes that don't have a bubble on them (yes i use adrenals , rakata stim and get the berserker buff a lot ... sue me)

 

-top the dmg with at the very least 350 k (i die horribly much) to 480 k ~ (things go my way)

 

-have healers in full battlemaster gear using every cc available just to sprint away from me , ignore their own team and cower in terror somewhere else until i switch targets/get cc'ed .... or .... die horribly in about 10-20 seconds ... depending on the healer

 

-am literally unkillable in a 1on1 that i open from stealth for anything that isn't a tank-specced tank , and i only lose to really really good ones

 

-know where my dispel button is which immediately breaks 2 entire classes in any 1on1 situation because i can dispel the only thing able to hurt me from either one (did i mention that my class is the only one in the game which can pick and choose their fights ?)

 

-i can and do 4-5 shot people with 15k hp if i get lucky crits

 

-can stun people from 100-20 because biowares "nerf" was a huge buff (only optimists think their resolve bar is "half full" after 1 stun)

 

-actually know how to press 2 butons that ensure you can never kick me down something unless there's an actual lag spike ....ever

 

 

 

your dreadful "underperformance" since i was nerfed ?

 

-i rarely get the 5k crit medal these days ... yeah that's it

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you actually think concealment operatives (the burst spec) lacks any damage you are a bad player

 

period

 

there is no discussion ... it's you

 

 

 

 

so stop pestering us operatives ... it's fine the way it is.

we're perfectly fine now with the dmg scaling and surge nerfs , if you fail with it you lack equip ... or more likely skill

end of story

 

 

 

 

 

sincerely ...

someone who has more than 1 keybind and doesn't turn with their keyboard:rolleyes:

 

 

/rant

 

so much truth....

[wiazabi]

 

My PT has a permanent 15% run speed buff

My scoundrals 15% run speed buff only works in stealth

 

 

Actually the 15% speed buff works the same way, its a 15% in combat speed buff it doesnt do anything to stealth only sprint does, neither does it benefit the PT out of combat.

 

Otherwise we would walk same speed stealth as other classes (without the 15%) would out of combat.

 

Smuggle on the other hand slows the speed wayy down no idea if the speed value is lower or sprint doesnt work with it.

[Xippin]

the value of an operative ... are you kidding me ?

 

i can legally cheat in huttball for one thing (you can intervene stealthed people ... go figure that one out)

 

groupstealth voidstar/alderaan anyone ?

 

depending on number of dedicated healers/equip/skill and if premade or not ... i can singlehandedly kill 100 % of healing in the enemy team or cut it down by a very large margin either way

 

i can also make any other damage dealer(s) that think they do damage "drop the soap" for an entire bg ... and my class couldn't care less if you have guard and a pocket healer for that :>

 

 

 

sure it's not as immediately apparent as 1) give guard 2) ??? 3) profit

doesn't mean me butchering all of your ranged dds and healers in a bloodbath in 30 seconds doesn't help my team , it's just indirect support (as far as they're concerned)

 

Basically, the only thing you stated that we can do that no other class can do +some is smuggle. WOW! How awesome of an ability! 3 Min cooldown group stealth that requires everyone you are stealthing to remain within 10 meters of you and slows their run speed down causing the other half of your team to out-distance your group causing the initial burst of combat to fall on 4 people, and no spread out among 8 people. Stealth capping objectives with group stealth? Great, that's good for 1 click assuming the enemy team isn't intelligent enough to AoE the door when they realise 1-3 people are just standing around not clicking the door.

[Xippin]

Actually the 15% speed buff works the same way, its a 15% in combat speed buff it doesnt do anything to stealth only sprint does, neither does it benefit the PT out of combat.

 

Otherwise we would walk same speed stealth as other classes (without the 15%) would out of combat.

 

Smuggle on the other hand slows the speed wayy down no idea if the speed value is lower or sprint doesnt work with it.

 

Actually, the smuggler speed buff is a STEALTH speed buff. I've tested it, and I move just as fast in stealth as a healing scoundral in my guild does out of stealth. But when we are both stealthed, he moves slower then i do.

[hdrain]

Actually, the smuggler speed buff is a STEALTH speed buff. I've tested it, and I move just as fast in stealth as a healing scoundral in my guild does out of stealth. But when we are both stealthed, he moves slower then i do.

 

You move at the same speed in stealth as your healing buddy out of stealth because he isn't specced into speed increase. The speed increase is universal, in the same situation you always move faster than people who aren't specced into it.

 

You have 15% more speed. Always. Simple as that. Going into stealth reduces your speed. If two people go into stealth, and one of them is specced to move 15% faster, guess what? He's going to move faster. 15% faster.

[WildBillCody]

ok here is my thoughts on the operative:

 

1. I think the only reason they were nerfed to death was because they were the direct counter to the fotm sorc class, and with so many sorc's posting nerf threads bw just went with the majority.

 

2. Now post-nerf they are terrible, i can easily kill them with my juggy and with my assassin with 70%+ of my hp remaining even when they get the jump on me from stealth.

 

3. Pve wise they are terrible, they have zero sustained dps, they are not welcome in any raids i run because having one in the raid is like being a man down.

 

I just don't know why anyone would play one right now over any of the other classes (except sniper which is probably even worse)

 

 

/Sign

 

This is what i tried to explain to some players weeks ago. The stealth and DPS mechanics are just broken and unbalanced since nerfing 'em down to near useless. Especially in comparison with other Skilltrees.

 

I have TWO lvl 50 smuggler, A Scoundrel-Scrapper and A Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting.

The Scrapper is, with his stealth/heals (Against all my expectations and my experiences with sneaking classes/playstyles through MMOs), the far WORSE choice for PvP than PvE, than the GS Doter. He is nothing more than a tactical annoyance for most Tank/Dps or Heal/Dps Classes, even top geared, but not even close to a real threat against normal skilled players above the L2p casual..

 

They are in no direct competion to other classes in case of learning curve vs. effectivity.

And plz skip your l2p posts, you just HAVE to know how the class mechanics work for smugglers, because every tiny mistake is a painful sudden death. It is the MOST squishy Class ingame, without real Defensive skills and only ONE escape button (Even the hard hitting near tank sentinel has two, in combat sneak+speed buff). You need At least Dodge AND Disappearing act out of CD to make a near clean getaway.

 

So you learn how to avoid dmg with root/stun/interrupt/absorb/LoS-breaking, need every area advantage while weaseling around like a Madman on fire, playing your keyboard binding like a concert pianist. There is no "Spam 1+2+3+4=win" combo against skilled players or need for "what to do when grav round is interrupted" guides for dummies.

Your ONLY survivability in PVP situations depended on the dmg you spit out between ALL of that. If you can't finish your opponent without real gap closers and run away screaming, hoping to avoid focus fire and/or leashing, you're now even ignored by healaggro. You need CC AND stealth to stay ALIVE not exatly doin sthin useful while others do the real dmg.

 

The GS Dot build was far more viable in PvP because the ranged favored the dmg avoiding/LoS breaking Playstyle the stealther was designed for (and should be far better in), and keep up a constant DPS output. Weasel in, throw some

CCS, kill someone, throw some CCs, weasel out (like the scrapper class description says). This worked especially well in gunning down and/or keeping Sorcs healers + Tanks occupied.

 

Then came the Nerf that hit the ONLY viable secondary stat for both builds and the whole tactics were banthafodder. The Dot'er was hit even harder than the burst scrapper, because he has NO crit dmg gain from his skill tree and suddenly does more dmg without endskill as a Saboteurhybrid.

Even his Energy management is screwed up, because taking down enemies is just taking TOO MUCH TIME and you run constantly OOE in every skirmish lasting longer than you can say "oh damn my cool head CD". Most Healers and Tanks now even ignore it and simply wait for Stun + AOE-Hots + Medpak.

 

So you start sniping again WHITOUT SNIPING SKILLS.. just skip the skilltree.

And dont get me starting on comparing DPS stealth/cover dependant classes to CC/DPs or DS/Migitation without BREAKABLE stances.

 

To make this short and not repeating above statements for the 1000 time: without the little xtra DMG the scrapper clearly lacks of defense, the GS-Doter in healing, that his CC+Utility simply CANT compensate for.

 

unless skilltrees are rebalanced to compensate the surge nerf not worth playing.

Edited February 27, 2012 by WildBillCody

[Ozzone]

Operatives/Scoundrels are true glass cannons. If we don't kill them or make them run away, we will probably die. The first rotation is key. The ability of the opponent is also. Edited February 27, 2012 by Ozzone

[astrolite]

 

depending on number of dedicated healers/equip/skill and if premade or not ... i can singlehandedly kill 100 % of healing in the enemy team or cut it down by a very large margin either way

 

 

I take it you haven't played with multi guard and taunt. Do you ever run premade vs premade?

 

While I agree that PUG warzones are generally pretty easy, when you get in to competitive play operative just isn't as good as other classes. If you want to practice for competitive play, just run around out of stealth for the whole game and only use cloaking screen when it means you'd defeat or make a point vs avoiding death. Your opener damage generally doesn't mean much since people run in packs where aoe is abundant and it will most likely be healed anyways. You also lack the energy regen to keep up sustained DPS other melee can do (and do better).

 

Basically what I am saying is... we all should have rolled marauders/assassins for melee DPS, if you are interested in this "end game" pvp.

[Ich_Bin]

Operatives/Scoundrels are true glass cannons. If we don't kill them or make them run away, we will probably die. The first rotation is key. The ability of the opponent is also.

 

Yes, I agree with this statement. It also means that this class will probably always be the one suffering/gaining from changes in the game the most. Even global changes (like Biochem/Surge nerf) effect this class much more than others.

The only way to avoid this permanent up and down would be to give the class more utility. I think that would also bring a really good increase to its learning curve.

 

So if I were to chose between more utility and more damage I would definitely pick utility.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Howbadisbad]

The class is just broken on so many levels, really.

 

Sustained damage/healing is broken because of:

• Massive cooldowns/requirements on bread and butter skills
  
• Energy starvation when below 60 energy with high energy costs
  
• No mobility which prevents damage uptime
  

Burst damage is mediocre because of:

• Nerfs to Hiden Strike + Acid Blade
  
• Nerfs to surge
  
• Nerfs to biochem
  

Utility is broken because of:

• No knockback
  
• No gap closer
  
• Melee range CC
  

Surviveability is broken because of:

• Cloaking Screen + Evasion combo only effective defensive option
  

 

tl;dr

Can't do anything another class can't do better.

[Pabbos]

I have a lvl 44 scoundrel, I feel like a god with the damage I do to the players on my tiny server. But my lack of utility is the biggest complaint I have about the class... I like to use the example of my guild leader who plays a Shadow KC. He has a Push back, Pull, Stealth/Vanish, and burst speed. Scoundrels have stealth/vanish... and a couple of LONG cd stuns.

 

All I ask is for a burst speed personally. I feel it makes sense for the class.

 

One other complaint is how easy it is to see stealthies. I've had knights/warrior use their leap on me from crazy distances.

 

I use my sneak as often as possible but that can only save me for so long. anywho, i agree something needs to be done to save the sco/op is all im saying... nothing like a damage boost just utility would be nice.

[Forthehonor]

Currently i fear that operatives will have the lowest representation in rated warzones, they can only do one thing better then other classes:burst, everything else other classes do better.

Operatives have 0 utility, acceptable sustained damage but not on par with that of other classes, our survivability is just vanish+cloaking screen/evasion as a other person said.

 

It basically means that the only incentive to bring a operative to a rated warzone would be:

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh wait, there aren't any.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Forthehonor

[MillaLyte]

I have a lvl 50 scoundrel and i'm half way through valor 59 to 60 in full champ gear. I only played scoundrel maybe a week before the "big nerf" happened because my main was a 50 seer. I definitely noticed a big difference between pre patch and post patch in my ability to drop opponents.

 

However I'm not going to lie I enjoy the challenge most the times when I'm up against BM opponents with some better gear etc I will still destroy them if I play my class correctly according to the situation. Sometimes it does become overwhelmingly frustrating but it is what it is, I get bored with my seer because there are soo many terrible dps players out there that regardless of how much i heal they can't kill anything.

 

Anyways, I feel for you guys that are struggling with the class and it's tough without gear i'm not going to lie but I just want to let you know it is still possible to be a great force if you play right. Now when I say that I mean you need to utilize your resources, surroundings and items to you're advantage. That means LOS, Relics/adrenals or stims, power ups, your tranq etc. If you slip up then yea your going to get rocked if your going in at a disadvantage, however if you practice enough you'll react to certain situations appropriately and come out on top. This class is tough to play so if you don't like a challenge then until they buff us roll a commando/merc or sage/sorc. I have taken nodes in civil war 1v2, just last night myself and another scoundrel dropped 3 imps 2v3+2 to capture a node and neither of us have BM gear. It's tough but just play smart and practice your combos + think outside the box.

[Manigma]

I have taken nodes in civil war 1v2, just last night myself and another scoundrel dropped 3 imps 2v3+2 to capture a node and neither of us have BM gear. It's tough but just play smart and practice your combos + think outside the box.

I have capped node 2 v 4 (no healer) that just means my opponents were either low geared or just plain bad (possibly a mix).

Edited February 28, 2012 by Manigma

[Rogmar]

It must be nice to play in warzones with other brand new 50's

 

Brand new 50's = geared Battlemasters and War Heroes? Ok.

[Ich_Bin]

I have a lvl 50 scoundrel and i'm half way through valor 59 to 60 in full champ gear. I only played scoundrel maybe a week before the "big nerf" happened because my main was a 50 seer. I definitely noticed a big difference between pre patch and post patch in my ability to drop opponents.

 

However I'm not going to lie I enjoy the challenge most the times when I'm up against BM opponents with some better gear etc I will still destroy them if I play my class correctly according to the situation. Sometimes it does become overwhelmingly frustrating but it is what it is, I get bored with my seer because there are soo many terrible dps players out there that regardless of how much i heal they can't kill anything.

 

Anyways, I feel for you guys that are struggling with the class and it's tough without gear i'm not going to lie but I just want to let you know it is still possible to be a great force if you play right. Now when I say that I mean you need to utilize your resources, surroundings and items to you're advantage. That means LOS, Relics/adrenals or stims, power ups, your tranq etc. If you slip up then yea your going to get rocked if your going in at a disadvantage, however if you practice enough you'll react to certain situations appropriately and come out on top. This class is tough to play so if you don't like a challenge then until they buff us roll a commando/merc or sage/sorc. I have taken nodes in civil war 1v2, just last night myself and another scoundrel dropped 3 imps 2v3+2 to capture a node and neither of us have BM gear. It's tough but just play smart and practice your combos + think outside the box.

 

What you are basically saying is that you need better skill and/or better gear than your opponent to make a Scoundrel/Operative work. I agree with that statement.

But while I do enjoy a challenge, I would enjoy a balanced game on even ground even more.

 

The few Scoundrel/Operative DDs that have not rerolled or respecced to healing are probably some of the best players in this game right now, because they have to work harder to achieve good results. That is my personal opinion.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ich_Bin