darthdoll Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 To be short and to the point, Bioware is lazy. Love how people claim developers are lazy when they know nothing about development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebimb Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Because its NOT as easy as 1-2-3. Just because it's in the game, it doesn't mean you can just transfer the skins and make it work for a player. There is so much developing and time involved you guys have no idea. This is not directed at the OP, but please, unless you are experienced game designers, don't make ignorant comments. Stop acting like everything is simple and can be done instantly, you just look like immature fools. It's so tiresome. No offense, but really. Think before you start attacking BW, or any other game company. There are plenty of other MMOs that have included a variety of playable species in the original game. They either got in over their heads with the cost/scope of voice acting or they somehow decided that nobody will mind little to no difference in playable species. No matter how you slice it, it's a mistake and they are open for criticism from the player base. You don't have to be a game designer to voice an opinion over a product you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayvenger Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 A few reasons jump immediately to mind: 1. Voice acting - The scripted missions system requires a ton of voice-over work and that takes time. Each race added has to then be added into the mission voice scripts for every mission they can do...and that is a lot of missions. 2. Equipment art - Sure, they are all humanoid but that doesn't stop races with odd protrusions and shapes from making extra work for artists and coders. 3. Development time - You can't have everything at launch. WoW took almost a decade to get where they are today, why do people insist a game less than 6 months old be just as all-encompassing as a mature title? There are others with lesser degrees of possibility, but those are the big three that immediately jump to mind. For first point is incorrect. EVERY race in the game shares the SAME voice per class. Your second point is also moot. It is as easy as swapping gear onto a new model. If you look at my list of races, the only protrusions they have are on their head, similar to the Twi'lek. So, all they would have to do is what they did with them. Add in hat wearing ability later when they've had a chance to work on said issue. Your third point is the only real valid one. It DOES take time to make new things. But, making all the armor work on models that are already in the game shouldn't take all that much time. Heck, it's really just a head swap on the preexisting models. A Kaleesh's hands are the only one that would require any work as they only have three fingers. And, once you have that done, you have to work done for any future tri fingered species. This is also Bioware, if they need to make special leg and hand armor, they can just go ask the Mass Effect designers how they have feet/leg/hand armor work for Tali, Wrex, Grunt or Garrus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaabber Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Why didn't they just include a crap ton of raids? Why didn't they just include a crap ton of warzones? Why didn't they just include a crap ton of flashpoints? Why didn't they just include a crap ton of ships? Why didn't they just include a crap ton of planets? Why didn't they just include a crap ton of companions? Edited February 26, 2012 by jaabber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are plenty of other MMOs that have included a variety of playable species in the original game. They either got in over their heads with the cost/scope of voice acting or they somehow decided that nobody will mind little to no difference in playable species. No matter how you slice it, it's a mistake and they are open for criticism from the player base. You don't have to be a game designer to voice an opinion over a product you pay for. This Galaxies had some clipping issues with more exotic species. Some gear didn't look so good on some species. And some species, like Wookiees, barely had any visible gear at all. And know what? No one cared. They enjoyed playing as a Wookiee. People who want to play as a Wookiee don't care about changing the appearance of their gloves every 5 levels or making out with a talking polygon. They just want to be a damn Wookiee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxer Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I wanna be an Ugnaught. or Ortollan. or Jawa. Give me a midget race!!! if i could be a jawa juggernaught that would be ....AWSUM!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Because cyborgs are a cool "species"! DERP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 They aren't there because that is going to take a lot more work. Sure, there are a bunch of Nautolans, but most of them are female, body type 1, and that weird yellow-green color. So, they're going to have to take the models, adjust them for the facial structure, and all of those tentacles. They might need to change the rig, since I don't recall seeing a Nautolan blink. Then they're going to have to make a whole bunch of new textures. They be able to use some elements from other UVs, but I haven't seen the actual files, so I don't know. It's the same way with the Togruta. You'll see several, but they all pretty much look the same. A race like the Cathar would be a bit a bit easier, since there isn't a great deal of difference in the models, mostly in the mouth, and around the nose. They're also going to have to think about armor designs. If you've played a SI long enough to get Azshara, you'll notice helmets don't show up. You also have to think about the Twi'lek lekku issue. People get upset about the lekku coming out of hoods, imagine having a huge mass of tentacles coming out of a hood. Or three lekku, and two montrals. Now I'm not sure how they do their lip-synchs, I'm assuming they have the phenoms all done, and have a script for easy animation, allowing them to just make small adjustments as the need arises. In the event they don't, though. Damn. As the game continues to progress, I would expect to see more races, and more exotic races, coming into play. But, you have to remember, all this stuff costs money, and BioWare's budget wasn't limitless. It was big, but they still burned through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Cutscenes are integral to this game and adding new races requires incremental work in the cutscenes. Expect it therefore in expansions or major uplift patches, as they plan and complete the development work. No, adding new races does not require "incremental" work in the cutscenes. It requires work in the cutscenes. Or were you just looking for a reason to use the word" incremental" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This is also Bioware, if they need to make special leg and hand armor, they can just go ask the Mass Effect designers how they have feet/leg/hand armor work for Tali, Wrex, Grunt or Garrus. There's no real variety in the ME armor. Even in ME one, it was all basically the same, with a new color. And, you'll notice, in ME2, there were only two kinds. The basic, and loyalty. Three, if you bought the appearence pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillingor Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) people who don't know anything about game development or programming telling game developers and programmers that they're lazy and not doing a good job. that is what this thread is. Edited February 26, 2012 by Dillingor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyTurtle Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 No matter how you slice it, it's a mistake and they are open for criticism from the player base. You don't have to be a game designer to voice an opinion over a product you pay for. But some of these people aren't providing constructive opinions... people who don't know anything about game development or programming telling game developers and programmers that they're lazy and not doing a good job. that is what this thread is. and (thank you) THIS is exactly my problem, and what I was referring to in my above posts. There is a difference between constructive criticism based on opinions and just attacking the game developers, calling them such words as “lazy” and dumb. When it comes to the gaming industry and even the movie industry, budget and time alotted/deadlines are huge things to work around. Things WILL get cut, things will HAVE to be sacrificed. They pushed out as many races as they did which was great. But it was either a small amount of very different species, or high amount but more similar to others (but still different.) It cant be both... if it WAS both (many many different races, crazy different looks) then something else in the entire project would have been sacrificed. Everyone understand? Now, either case, everyone would be making complaints regardless about the opposite. 5 races, complete different species - why not more races? Lots of different races, somewhat similar - why no different looking species? Lots of different races, complete different species - why was there no mini games like ANY kind of space combat/mission? (or insert other feature here...) See where i'm going with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticMutt Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Also, one of the other reasons is that an eligible race must have is the ability to speak Common during cut scenes. This likely means No Rhodians, Jawa or Wookies. Rodians can speak Basic as easily as humans. There are some in The Clone Wars, Jadan Korr if you go Rodian, and even some Rodian NPCs in TOR that all speak Basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If the models and animations are already there and they don't have to worry about anything like balancing racial traits (because race in this game is purely aesthetic), why didn't they just allow you to choose from a lot of different races? Because they ran out of money for more VO. Cost for Jawa VO: $$$$$ Actual gameplay result: squeak squeak jabber jabber <spacebar> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golin Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Because while it is very doable it is much easier and takes less work to keep all the body forms similar. This is the same reason why there are only 4 preset body types... games like SWG did not have to worry about the close up cinematic scenes which may have looked goofy with the odd models. With that in mind however I feel that since this is a Star Wars game i feel it is a great shame that the creative development team only took races from the clone wars cartoon..... should called this game clone wars online rather then kotor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 legacy system "In Game Update 1.2, we have several emotes planned as unlocked rewards of the Legacy System. My favorite is the special dance that is so inspiring that your companion feels the urge to boogie down with you" ^ That's your legacy system at work. Not new species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Not sure why this posted twice, but anyway, i'll just make an edited post here. Throughout Beta, the testers there were demanding more species to play and were very adamant about being against the "cyborg race". Many testers thought it was just a filler race but as release came closer and closer, the realization that it wasn't going to change had set in. Cyborgs (when outted on the general forums) was also fought against by the majority of players and it fell on deaf ears. I'm sure Bioware chose to release this set of species because they planned for having more in expansions. If it wasn't them, it was EA saying to hold off so the game has another selling advantage when it came time for the first big Expansion. Biowares choices where it came to character creation as a whole was a complete let down. There were gigantic threads asking for slide bars and more control over species appearance (Considering this game was going to be filled with scenes where you actually see your characters face, the lack of detail in this area was terrible. If you want proof, look at Rattaki's), yet again, it fell on deaf ears. All that can be hoped for is that Bioware learned from its mistake about not listening to the community when it comes to the expansion. Species makes the star wars universe just as amazing as lightsabers and bounty hunters (as does the control of their appearance). Edited February 27, 2012 by veyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 legacy system ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding woooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wwwwwwooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee *siren noises* we haaaaave a winner! WINNER did you hear me folks WIIINNNEEERRRR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Because it would require more work than simply changing skin color or adding something on top of the head. I'm calling BS. Most of the races have models and variant skins already in the game. The faces are already animated, which is the hard part. Since they use the same frame as the already existing player skeleton, it really IS just a palette swap. Marginally harder than adding a new color of a previously existing suit of armor. Bioware is just being cheap/lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Cutscenes are integral to this game and adding new races requires incremental work in the cutscenes. The model work is already done. You interact with tons of different races in cut scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 There are also a lot of clipping issues with the Races that aren't already in the game. Twi'lek either horribly clip, or just can't wear most hats. Also, one of the other reasons is that an eligible race must have is the ability to speak Common during cut scenes. This likely means No Rhodians, Jawa or Wookies. Rodians can speak basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Love how people claim developers are lazy when they know nothing about development. And I love how people leap to defend lazy design. Most of these races are simple head swaps... The better question is, why did we get crap races instead of actual star wars races. As far as I'm concerned, there are currently 2 playable star wars races, twileks and zabraks. Any effort spent on rattataki, blind humans, and whatever the hell the lime flavored humans are should have been spent adding pretty much ANY other race in their place. Edited February 27, 2012 by NermalDetonator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticMutt Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 And I love how people leap to defend lazy design. Most of these races are simple head swaps... The better question is, why did we get crap races instead of actual star wars races. As far as I'm concerned, there are currently 2 playable star wars races, twileks and zabraks. Any effort spent on rattataki, blind humans, and whatever the hell the lime flavored humans are should have been spent adding pretty much ANY other race in their place. Miraluka and Sith Purebloods are pretty important to Star Wars and KotOR history, and Mirialans were in the movies and cartoon. Sounds like real Star Wars species to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerokTalram Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If they were smart they would have created a micro-transaction area so they could sell more races, crystals, outfits, weapon models, and vehicles (fluff). I will easily spend 100 a month, more if there is a lot I am interested in. What would I be paying my $15 a month for then? If SWTOR starts adding micro-transactions, they better go F2P because if my $15 doesn't contain all the content then I and lots of other players will be seriously upset. micro-transactions are for F2P MMOs so they can try and recover recurring costs of running the game. If you charge $15/month, you don't need micro-transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What would I be paying my $15 a month for then? If SWTOR starts adding micro-transactions, they better go F2P because if my $15 doesn't contain all the content then I and lots of other players will be seriously upset. micro-transactions are for F2P MMOs so they can try and recover recurring costs of running the game. If you charge $15/month, you don't need micro-transactions. You know (based on WoW numbers) only about $2 of that $15 actually goes back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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