Remove Speed/Charges while carrying the huttball.

[Demarcc]

I tried to say that we each have roles to play in pvp, no one can do everything. So you can't run the ball, so what? heal the ball carrier, CC the enemies, get ahead for the pull / pass, guard the ball respawner ready for a 2nd score, etc.

 

If someone else has the ball I have to fill another role too.

 

 

 

I answered the question actually. I play a multiplayer game for the social aspect, whether killing people or killing *with* people. So when I grouip up it's not asking in fleet for a specific class who may or may not actually be a good player, I queue with guildies.

 

 

 

Seems your just not very reasonable. Play a class with no leaps, no sprints, no knockbacks, no closers and get back to me. Its fine sticking your fingers in your ears yelling *my class is fine the game is fine* I'm sure that will get you far. Your inability to see anyone else's point of view makes further discussion with you a pure waste of time.

[Jestunhi]

Your inability to see anyone else's point of view makes further discussion with you a pure waste of time.

 

*sigh*

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

"I lost, it must be because something is OP!"

[Xsorus]

I tried to say that we each have roles to play in pvp, no one can do everything. So you can't run the ball, so what? heal the ball carrier, CC the enemies, get ahead for the pull / pass, guard the ball respawner ready for a 2nd score, etc.

 

If someone else has the ball I have to fill another role too.

 

 

 

I answered the question actually. I play a multiplayer game for the social aspect, whether killing people or killing *with* people. So when I grouip up it's not asking in fleet for a specific class who may or may not actually be a good player, I queue with guildies.

 

A. So basically, If you're not a force user, suck it up and do the job that the force user themselves could do better? Is that what you're saying? Great Logic I must tell ya, your post is outstanding in pointing out what's wrong with Huttball.

 

B. No, you keep not answering the question, Here i'll ask it again, if you forming a team for huttball, which healer would you take, Sorc/Merc/Operative? Pretty easy answer.

[Telaan]

Seems your just not very reasonable. Play a class with no leaps, no sprints, no knockbacks, no closers and get back to me. Its fine sticking your fingers in your ears yelling *my class is fine the game is fine* I'm sure that will get you far. Your inability to see anyone else's point of view makes further discussion with you a pure waste of time.

 

Sorry but he's right. If your class isn't specifically suited to catching the ball carrier or you aren't in a position to do so, guess what your job becomes; to control the center. Which for some reason so many people completely ignore; simply allowing the other team to pick the ball up, pass, and score again.

 

Stop using badness as an excuse for nerfs and changes.

[fungihoujo]

Oh heaven forbid people use abilities in pvp for something other than dishing out leet damage.

 

I know, it makes it hard when you can't just 'rawrsmash!' your way to victory.

[Demarcc]

Sorry but he's right. If your class isn't specifically suited to catching the ball carrier or you aren't in a position to do so, guess what your job becomes; to control the center. Which for some reason so many people completely ignore; simply allowing the other team to pick the ball up, pass, and score again.

 

Stop using badness as an excuse for nerfs and changes.

 

Your not getting it are you.

 

Give me ONE reason to take a Sawbones healer over a Sage healer to huttball. Assuming they are the same player or skill level and gear. ONE reason. Please.

 

(Because its my girlfriend is not a valid reason!!)

Edited February 26, 2012 by Demarcc

[vekkth]

Says the Force user

 

charge specced vanguards are laughing at your face.

Edited February 26, 2012 by vekkth

[Xsorus]

OK, wait until that poin t when the ball carrier then passes up to the sorc which you left alone. You're not on my server, right?

 

Yeah, it's not as if it's a bad thing to let their sorcs get ahead of the ball carrier to get a pass or pull them forward. You should be ignoring them and letting them do it. That way you can come on here and whine more about losing to the tactic which you don't bother to counter.

 

 

 

It's viable for me, I see no need for the cooldown to lower.

 

A. If you pull the sorc before hand, You don't have the pull for the person running the ball, He's going to probably score, You've delayed the scoring.. You could wait for him to pass the ball to the sorc to pull the sorc, But again, If anyone else makes it past that fire pit, You've given up the pull. Not to mention, most sorcs will just pull the ball carrier to them in the first place. After they've used their pull is when you should use yours, and only if you can deliver them into the fire pit, and stun them, Cause otherwise they'll just charge back up, or pass it back up.

 

B. I explained this in in the first post. There is no easy answer to what you're suggesting, Your pull is on a 35 second cooldown, You can't counter the setup unless you can gank them with firepit.

[Rheeling]

A. You'd have a point, if Juggernauts didn't have an ability to lift you up in the air, and position themselves in what direction they want to push you. Oh wait.. they do.. so your entire point is wrong, I do look forward to seeing the rest of of your post, I'm sure it will be amazing as this last example you've just displayed to us all..

 

B. Oh I wasn't mistaken, you've gave us an amazing example like I thought you would. So your argument is if you let the class with a charge, get past the "first fire trap" you've screwed up.. Cause ya know.. It's extremely difficult to get past that firetrap while having charge *grin* But then you go onto say, Why don't you root the class with the speed burst that last what? 20 seconds was it? with your 3-5 second root (depending on damage of course, if he's being hit, 2-3 seconds) Cause we know.. That's surely going to stop him.

 

C. Oh this one I really like, Because Basically other then the Merc, this isn't going to happen, since Powertech's don't have a knockback, nor do operatives, and snipers can't use there's while jumping or faster then any other class in the game do to it requiring cover. But lets say you can beat the class with Force speed and and immunity who also has a pbae snare that lasts a stupid long time.. Which class do you think might be best at stopping him, the Force Users, or the non force users..

 

A. CC break it then? "But.. cooldown!". Maybe their Force Choke isn't off its cooldown either, so you don't have to worry about it in the first place. I'm sure we could do this all day.

 

B. Lasts 10 seconds, and is effected by snares. Extremely counterable. And if they leaped someone to get to that spot, then there's risk of an interception unless the Marauder kills the person they leaped. Most teams won't risk that, so it's pretty much a non-issue. I almost never am able to just walk into position for a pass without being harassed or knocked off.

 

C. I'll give you that one, for that fact that knockbacks are pretty much reserved for Force users.

[Telaan]

Your not getting it are you.

 

Give me ONE reason to take a Sawbones healer over a Sage healer to huttball. Assuming they are the same player or skill level and gear. ONE reason. Please.

 

Give me ONE reason to take a Guardian tank over a Vanguard tank into Alderaan. You'll never be the best at everything. Sorry. However, I will take a healer over no healer; and anyone who complains about a sawbones in Huttball or a WZ is an idiot.

[Xsorus]

False.

 

 

 

Whichever was available within the guild.

 

The same question repeated doesn't change my answer.

 

I assume you mean "If all 3 were available in guild which would you choose"? And to be honest it would still come down to who they are instead of which class that they play.

 

A. otherwise known as "I have no point, let me just say its incorrect without backing up my statement"

 

B. You keep bringing your sad little guild into the answer, When it has nothing to do with a collection of scrubs. It was a simple question, If you were forming a team for huttball, which healer would you take Sorc/Operative/Merc. Your guild is not the answer to the question, there is only 3 possible answers to this question, Sorc/Operative/Merc.

[Jestunhi]

A. If you pull the sorc before hand, You don't have the pull for the person running the ball, He's going to probably score, You've delayed the scoring.. You could wait for him to pass the ball to the sorc to pull the sorc, But again, If anyone else makes it past that fire pit, You've given up the pull. Not to mention, most sorcs will just pull the ball carrier to them in the first place. After they've used their pull is when you should use yours, and only if you can deliver them into the fire pit, and stun them, Cause otherwise they'll just charge back up, or pass it back up.

And if you save your grapple for the ball carrier but by that point he has resolve up?

 

Ohnoes, what a poor decision.

 

You overly simplify things to try to prove yourself right, the fact is you apparently let their team run past you and get ahead of the ball carrier. Pull has the same range as pass so guess what, removing the mobility abilities on the ball handler would make no difference.

 

They would just pass to the guy you let run ahead and are ignoring.

 

B. I explained this in in the first post. There is no easy answer to what you're suggesting, Your pull is on a 35 second cooldown, You can't counter the setup unless you can gank them with firepit.

 

*You* may only be able to counter it one way. I can use my brain, as can the other 7 players on my team (you know, the other players which make the cooldown on your abilities not the only thing which matters).

 

My Huttball matches aren't 2 (tank & healer with pull) vs. 1 (Powertech). I have allies who have cooldowns not tied to mine at all!

[astrocanis]

Currently in Rift, They're getting ready to patch out Speed/teleports while carrying the flag in Whitefall, cause it lends one class setup being absolute best, and zero skill required to run the flag (riftstalker/bard/bd)

 

They should do that with this game, and please note, I do have a BM Powertech that gets Charge.

 

Huttball should be based on running the ball, and passing the ball, Not who generally has the most force users on their team.

 

Classes like Assassin/Marauder/Juggy/Sorc have a highly unfair advantage when doing this compared to other classes. Abilities such as the Sorc Pull give them a massive advantage compared to the other Healers as well in Huttball.

 

So i say have movement buffs not work on the ball carrier, as well as charges, and of course the Sorc pull.

 

This would make team mates running ahead for passes more used. It would bring back skill to the game.

 

There is quite a difference between (Rift) a player having 12 seconds of immunity and speed and (SWTOR) two seconds of speed increase.

[Xsorus]

A. CC break it then? "But.. cooldown!". Maybe their Force Choke isn't off its cooldown either, so you don't have to worry about it in the first place. I'm sure we could do this all day.

 

B. Lasts 10 seconds, and is effected by snares. Extremely counterable. And if they leaped someone to get to that spot, then there's risk of an interception unless the Marauder kills the person they leaped. Most teams won't risk that, so it's pretty much a non-issue. I almost never am able to just walk into position for a pass without being harassed or knocked off.

 

C. I'll give you that one, for that fact that knockbacks are pretty much reserved for Force users.

 

A. You're going to use your CC break that has a 2 min cooldown on an ability that has a far shorter cooldown, and won't give you a full resolve bar mind you? You're brilliant.

 

B. you're not going to intercept a class with CC, speed" unless you just happen to be a Merc or any number of the force users.. you claiming you're poor at it doesn't make the class poor , it makes you a bad user of the class.

[Jestunhi]

A. otherwise known as "I have no point, let me just say its incorrect without backing up my statement"

you were accusing me of saying something. What proof do you need? Go back and re-read the post which you replied to if you want proof of what I typed.

 

B. You keep bringing your sad little guild into the answer, When it has nothing to do with a collection of scrubs. It was a simple question, If you were forming a team for huttball, which healer would you take Sorc/Operative/Merc. Your guild is not the answer to the question, there is only 3 possible answers to this question, Sorc/Operative/Merc.

 

Perhaps there are only 3 options when you know no one in the game and are deciding which to spam on /1 to find a healer.

 

For me there are dozens of options and each has a name as well as a class.

[Xsorus]

Give me ONE reason to take a Guardian tank over a Vanguard tank into Alderaan. You'll never be the best at everything. Sorry. However, I will take a healer over no healer; and anyone who complains about a sawbones in Huttball or a WZ is an idiot.

 

You're trying to compare Guardian vs Vanguard tanks in Alderaan.... to Force Users in Huttball vs Non force users?

 

One absolutely has zero difference between the two (both are excellent at guarding points) and one is so marked advantage they call it Forceball for a reason..

 

How many times have you heard Alderaan called "The Tech Wars"

[Demarcc]

Give me ONE reason to take a Guardian tank over a Vanguard tank into Alderaan. You'll never be the best at everything. Sorry. However, I will take a healer over no healer; and anyone who complains about a sawbones in Huttball or a WZ is an idiot.

 

My point is .. in small words .. rated WZs are coming. That means pre-made teams of 8. Given huttballs layout and design sages are FAR better than the other two healers due to thier toolsets. The other two WZ's the same toolsets have lesser advantages.

 

Pulling people in Void / Cw? Meh. Sprint? Meh. Knockback? Meh. (Exception being th ebridge in VS if your a *******) The same tools dont have the same impact in the other game as they do in Huttball.

 

The Troopers and Sawbones have no such distinct advantages in either of the other warzones. It would be fine if we could say *well sages are great in Huttball, But commandos rock in VS and Sawbones own CW* .. but thats simply not true.

 

Its not about being the best at everything. Sages are hands down the best in huttball, but they suffer nothing for that in either of the other WZ's.

 

Now with this in mind, If your making a pre-made for rated WZ's and aiming to play at the top level .. your going to take sage healers. They gain a HUGE advantage in one WZ and suffer NOTHING for that in the other two.

 

THATS my point.

[Rheeling]

A. You're going to use your CC break that has a 2 min cooldown on an ability that has a far shorter cooldown, and won't give you a full resolve bar mind you? You're brilliant.

 

B. you're not going to intercept a class with CC, speed" unless you just happen to be a Merc or any number of the force users.. you claiming you're poor at it doesn't make the class poor , it makes you a bad user of the class.

 

If it would prevent the other team from scoring... then why not? I'm not always thinking about what I need to keep up for a 1v1 on the side.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say with B though. My abilities don't matter when I'm trying to catch a pass directly next to an enemy.

 

But to answer the "which healer would you take" question, I'd honestly probably take the Merc healer. They have the best knockback, heavy armor, and can't be interrupted when they use their cooldown. Though, if they were trying to run the ball for some reason instead of healing, it would be nice to have the Force Speed.

 

Not really sure why the question was asked based around healers, since they're not supposed to be carrying the ball anyway.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I'd rather have a Powertech as a designated carrier. They're way more able to carry the ball from any point on the map because of their survivability. I only ever want Sorcs to have the ball if they're already past the first set of opponent's fire trap, as that's the only time Force Speed matters.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Rheeling

[Telaan]

You're trying to compare Guardian vs Vanguard tanks in Alderaan.... to Force Users in Huttball vs Non force users?

 

One absolutely has zero difference between the two (both are excellent at guarding points) and one is so marked advantage they call it Forceball for a reason..

 

How many times have you heard Alderaan called "The Tech Wars"

 

Are you so invested in this thread that you're just arguing about everything?

 

There is a general consensus among the community that Vanguards are superior to Guardians in nearly everything. However, I find my JG to be specifically suited for Huttball and Voidstar.

 

If you go back and look over your posts, you're really arguing about silliness. Do sage healers perform slightly better in Huttball than the other healers? In general, yes. Universally, no. But, please, continue acting like every other healer is useless in Huttball or that there isn't a place for any class that doesn't have a leap or speed.

 

The best premades are the ones that understand that everyone of every AC has a role in that WZ. It's why they win and you lose.

[Xsorus]

There is quite a difference between (Rift) a player having 12 seconds of immunity and speed and (SWTOR) two seconds of speed increase.

 

Not when you consider the size of Whitefall vs Huttball.

[Telaan]

My point is .. in small words .. rated WZs are coming. That means pre-made teams of 8. Given huttballs layout and design sages are FAR better than the other two healers due to thier toolsets. The other two WZ's the same toolsets have lesser advantages.

 

Pulling people in Void / Cw? Meh. Sprint? Meh. Knockback? Meh. (Exception being th ebridge in VS if your a *******) The same tools dont have the same impact in the other game as they do in Huttball.

 

The Troopers and Sawbones have no such distinct advantages in either of the other warzones. It would be fine if we could say *well sages are great in Huttball, But commandos rock in VS and Sawbones own CW* .. but thats simply not true.

 

Its not about being the best at everything. Sages are hands down the best in huttball, but they suffer nothing for that in either of the other WZ's.

 

Now with this in mind, If your making a pre-made for rated WZ's and aiming to play at the top level .. your going to take sage healers. They gain a HUGE advantage in one WZ and suffer NOTHING for that in the other two.

 

THATS my point.

 

Just stop. Look at WoW's arena system as an example of what you're asking for. It can never and will never be achieved. The only way to "balance" it the way you people are asking is to have one DPS class, one healing class, and one tank class.....period.

 

Additionally, the size of the teams allows for there to be some diversity. I guarantee you that you will see non-Sage healers in the top ranks. Sage healers are better at protecting the ball carrier while Commando/Sawbones healers can be utilized to help control mid.

[_Morholt_]

So we have a bunch of baddies who are arguing that Sorcs aren't far and away the best class at huttball wut!

 

Lemme tell you as a sawbones the only thing I can do is to run in behind the carrier and purge all the snares and slows and roll hots on said carrier to make him unkillable until he force charges to someone in front of us outranging me.

 

To all the idiots who say, just snare them....well when you have healers nearby the first thing they do is purge it so the carrier can keep on running.

 

Back in the day we never had this problem as us rogues would be able to 3 hit the little sissy sorcs at the goal line after they used and abused all their CDs to outrun everyone else at mid.

 

When you can run through the acid pit and not take any damage at all.....yes huttball is totally balanced!

[Drahh]

The only huttball games I ever win (depending on what faction I was playing) are with a **** ton of sages or sorcs force pulling everyone.

[Xsorus]

Are you so invested in this thread that you're just arguing about everything?

 

There is a general consensus among the community that Vanguards are superior to Guardians in nearly everything. However, I find my JG to be specifically suited for Huttball and Voidstar.

 

If you go back and look over your posts, you're really arguing about silliness. Do sage healers perform slightly better in Huttball than the other healers? In general, yes. Universally, no. But, please, continue acting like every other healer is useless in Huttball or that there isn't a place for any class that doesn't have a leap or speed.

 

The best premades are the ones that understand that everyone of every AC has a role in that WZ. It's why they win and you lose.

 

There is not general consensus among the community that vanguards are superior to guardians in nearly everything, Because it's simply untrue. You might believe your "guardian" is worse then vanguards, but that doesn't actually make it true.

 

Slightly better is also an understatement, they're vastly superior to Sawbones and way better then Mercs in Huttball.

[Telaan]

So we have a bunch of baddies who are arguing that Sorcs aren't far and away the best class at huttball wut!

 

Lemme tell you as a sawbones the only thing I can do is to run in behind the carrier and purge all the snares and slows and roll hots on said carrier to make him unkillable until he force charges to someone in front of us outranging me.

 

To all the idiots who say, just snare them....well when you have healers nearby the first thing they do is purge it so the carrier can keep on running.

 

Back in the day we never had this problem as us rogues would be able to 3 hit the little sissy sorcs at the goal line after they used and abused all their CDs to outrun everyone else at mid.

 

When you can run through the acid pit and not take any damage at all.....yes huttball is totally balanced!

 

1. Sorc don't have force charge.....
   
2. A ball carrier who out-ranges their healer is an idiot (but please continue blaming game design for poor player perfomance)
   
3. Back in the day? CDs? Are we playing the same game?
   

Edited February 26, 2012 by Telaan