Sith Warrior PVP - Is it really as bad as I'm hearing?

[rweiowjerwei]

I play an advanced prototype BH, which means that I am more melee centered than my alternative specs. Repeatedly in fights I need to walk close to get retractable blade up, rocket punches, shoulder slam, flame burst, and flamethrower. Most of my fighting is done from about 10 meters or less with the exception of a couple abilities which I dont gain a whole lot of damage with due to my spec.

 

My friend is playing a Sith Warrior and we have been doing some warzones. He is the straight DPS spec with dual wielding (I dont know names, sorry) and has been complaining about feeling useless when it comes to doing just about anything in PVP. From my experiences as AP BH, there are tons of utilities and such to make everything manageable whether it be kiting, escaping, CC removal, CC immunity, CCing players, etc. I have a set of abilities that allow me to, when used properly, play very efficiently with little to handicap my play. Do Sith Warriors lack abilities like these? Or do you get them from going down the PVP focused DPS spec? My friend tells me that it "wouldnt make a difference" but to me, there is a difference between a spec that was built around PVP versus one that wasnt, and I think he's wrong.

 

Anyways, is the above true? Is the Sith Warrior PVP spec as useless as it sounds? Because it seems very similar to the Warrior class on WoW which was a great PVP class if you knew how to use it properly.

Edited February 25, 2012 by rweiowjerwei

[Exracon]

I play an advanced prototype BH, which means that I am more melee centered than my alternative specs. Repeatedly in fights I need to walk close to get retractable blade up, rocket punches, shoulder slam, flame burst, and flamethrower. Most of my fighting is done from about 10 meters or less with the exception of a couple abilities which I dont gain a whole lot of damage with due to my spec.

 

My friend is playing a Sith Warrior and we have been doing some warzones. He is the straight DPS spec with dual wielding (I dont know names, sorry) and has been complaining about feeling useless when it comes to doing just about anything in PVP. From my experiences as AP BH, there are tons of utilities and such to make everything manageable whether it be kiting, escaping, CC removal, CC immunity, CCing players, etc. I have a set of abilities that allow me to, when used properly, play very efficiently with little to handicap my play. Do Sith Warriors lack abilities like these? Or do you get them from going down the PVP focused DPS spec? My friend tells me that it "wouldnt make a difference" but to me, there is a difference between a spec that was built around PVP versus one that wasnt, and I think he's wrong.

 

Anyways, is the above true? Is the Sith Warrior PVP spec as useless as it sounds? Because it seems very similar to the Warrior class on WoW which was a great PVP class if you knew how to use it properly.

 

I don't think Sith Warrior PvP is completely useless. In fact, depending on your AC you can do quite a bit.

Sith Juggernaut - I'd suggest mainly speccing to be flag carrier/flag support in huttball. In Alderaan and Voidstar, I find that protecting healers and managing crowds works well.

 

For Marauder - I'd probably suggest taking advantage of cloaking and picking and choosing your targets. For example, in huttball you notice that a healer is constantly healing the flag carrier. You can cloak and then selectively attack this healer to annoy him/kill him.

[beyondkilling]

i have a 50 jug veng and i love pvping on him also i have a 33 mara and i love pvp even more on him

[DreamPolice]

The people who complain about Warrior PvP are just bad. As a 50 Marauder, I almost always go first in objective points, and top 3 in damage. If I'm doing 300k damage just by doing objectives, warriors can't be that bad.

 

Rage spec'd, if that helps you.

[rweiowjerwei]

I don't think Sith Warrior PvP is completely useless. In fact, depending on your AC you can do quite a bit.

Sith Juggernaut - I'd suggest mainly speccing to be flag carrier/flag support in huttball. In Alderaan and Voidstar, I find that protecting healers and managing crowds works well.

 

For Marauder - I'd probably suggest taking advantage of cloaking and picking and choosing your targets. For example, in huttball you notice that a healer is constantly healing the flag carrier. You can cloak and then selectively attack this healer to annoy him/kill him.

 

He just tells me that he is constantly stunned to death or knocked back all the time (so much for having a CC breaker on a 2min CD). To me though, it seems that having a charge means you should save it for that moment. I dont know the CD on it however, so it's hard to judge.

 

When I play my BH, I treat it like a melee and I always go for the healers or the ranged in the back because I know they are the true threat and it keeps me from getting gibbed quickly. I'm fairly resilient being in heavy armor and having good CD's, but a good bout of focused anything and I crumble just like any other class. Maybe he doesnt know fully well what he is doing? He seems to be on the bottom when it comes to dealing damage, objectives, medals, etc... Where I'll get like 80-100 commendations per WZ, he gets maybe 50-70...Is that just how it inherently will be due to my ranged advantage?

[rweiowjerwei]

i have a 50 jug veng and i love pvping on him also i have a 33 mara and i love pvp even more on him

 

Thanks for... contributing?

[rweiowjerwei]

The people who complain about Warrior PvP are just bad. As a 50 Marauder, I almost always go first in objective points, and top 3 in damage. If I'm doing 300k damage just by doing objectives, warriors can't be that bad.

 

Rage spec'd, if that helps you.

 

This post is exactly what I referred to when I talked about how SW is similar to Warrior on WoW.

 

It was sometimes difficult DUE TO being melee, but that is an inherent disadvantage that can be overcome. I used to play my Warrior and wreck, and from what I have seen of the SW skillset they are very close minus a few things...so I see no reason that one couldnt do well. People have gotten over similar problems in other games, and this game does have some decent flow and ideas to it when it comes to PVP.

[Tempsticks]

This post is exactly what I referred to when I talked about how SW is similar to Warrior on WoW.

 

It was sometimes difficult DUE TO being melee, but that is an inherent disadvantage that can be overcome. I used to play my Warrior and wreck, and from what I have seen of the SW skillset they are very close minus a few things...so I see no reason that one couldnt do well. People have gotten over similar problems in other games, and this game does have some decent flow and ideas to it when it comes to PVP.

 

Think warrior in WoW but simple enough that it's learnable without macros. Warrior in WoW without macros was 10x harder to do well on than Marauder Imo. As long as you mouse turn, are good with keybinds, and have decent reflexes you can be extremely successful as a Marauder. I can't speak much for Jugg, I actually heard their dps specs were squishier. Less defensive cds for sure.

[rweiowjerwei]

Think warrior in WoW but simple enough that it's learnable without macros. Warrior in WoW without macros was 10x harder to do well on than Marauder Imo. As long as you mouse turn, are good with keybinds, and have decent reflexes you can be extremely successful as a Marauder. I can't speak much for Jugg, I actually heard their dps specs were squishier. Less defensive cds for sure.

 

If you put it that way, there should be no reason for doing necessarily bad on SW(try not to read that as me implying SW is easymode). Warriors required lots of keybinds and effective keybinds at that, which separated good players from great ones.

 

Assuming SW has all of these kind of tools but more streamlined, it shouldnt be difficult at all I wouldnt think.

Edited February 25, 2012 by rweiowjerwei

[Exokaubis]

I have a 50 Carnage warrior and a 34 Juggernaut...

 

On the marauder, 1 on 1 you SHOULD win almost any fight. But when you pop cooldowns, it gets tougher. In warzones I felt largely useless, as when you are melee you attract alot of attention, as opposed to a sniper hiding in the back. You can get destroyed pretty quick, and though you do have undying rage, when thats on cooldown, get ready to die fast.

 

That said, when I hit 50, I realized that DPS in group combat wasn't my bag. So after a couple flashpoints, I immediately re-rolled as a juggernaut.

 

Best. Decision. Ever.

 

Marauder, totally bad ***. So much fun solo in PVE. Juggernaut, as an immortal spec, Throwing guard, force pushing, throw in a couple stuns, much more my style. Taunts all around. Though I've never played a tank spec before, I feel unbelievably more useful in warzones and group situations. I went from 4-5 medals to 6-7 consistently (if thats something you care about).

 

Of course, this is going from a DPS spec to a tank build. But the tanking in PVP is alot of fun, useful, and even rewarding.

[rweiowjerwei]

I have a 50 Carnage warrior and a 34 Juggernaut...

 

On the marauder, 1 on 1 you SHOULD win almost any fight. But when you pop cooldowns, it gets tougher. In warzones I felt largely useless, as when you are melee you attract alot of attention, as opposed to a sniper hiding in the back. You can get destroyed pretty quick, and though you do have undying rage, when thats on cooldown, get ready to die fast.

 

That said, when I hit 50, I realized that DPS in group combat wasn't my bag. So after a couple flashpoints, I immediately re-rolled as a juggernaut.

 

Best. Decision. Ever.

 

Marauder, totally bad ***. So much fun solo in PVE. Juggernaut, as an immortal spec, Throwing guard, force pushing, throw in a couple stuns, much more my style. Taunts all around. Though I've never played a tank spec before, I feel unbelievably more useful in warzones and group situations. I went from 4-5 medals to 6-7 consistently (if thats something you care about).

 

Of course, this is going from a DPS spec to a tank build. But the tanking in PVP is alot of fun, useful, and even rewarding.

 

Alright. Cool!

 

Thank you for the input.

[eatZecaai]

As a Rage spec Jugg I don't have any issues in PVP. Scoring top damage is very easy if that's the only thing you're aiming at. And even if you're not you'll end up top3 anyways. Also it's more fun and more stylish than doing it as a BH/Trooper.

 

But I admit, that at levels below at least 35 it's rather pointless. You need a lot of high level skills to truly make it count. At low levels you're useless.

[BobaFurz]

Just go to Illum and watch endgame pvp, watch how melee is doing and decide for yourself. For 1v1 and small group pvp the warrior class is alright, but ranged classes have it a lot more easy in swtor in comparison to wow when you take a warrior as an example. PvP is not Pvp, so carefull if someone says he has no problems. The Sith Warrior is a great class and challenging, you will have a lot of fun with it. Its a late bloomer and he starts to shine at lvl 40 around. Edited February 25, 2012 by BobaFurz

[gibmachine]

Regarding marauder - it's tough and takes time to get used to complexity and how to counter everything that's being thrown at you (and there is plenty) but once you get the hang of it, the class becomes really fun especially when some random sorc noob tries to 1v1 you and gets absolutely destroyed.

 

This however applies only to small skirmishes and 1v1. You're useless in big group fights unless you're rage and can fire a Smash bomb before getting nuked.

Edited February 26, 2012 by gibmachine

[Crassius]

well equipped, well specced marauder is most likely the best pvp class you can play. and i'm not the only one who says that.

[evexir]

The people who complain about Warrior PvP are just bad. As a 50 Marauder, I almost always go first in objective points, and top 3 in damage. If I'm doing 300k damage just by doing objectives, warriors can't be that bad.

 

Rage spec'd, if that helps you.

 

This.

 

Marauders are really good. I haven't played juggs. They take skill.. if played right they can be one of the better classes

 

And we will probably get buffed soon because of all the bads complaining

[Scinald]

The problem with SW combat is you will spend a lot of time respawning and in open combat with more than say six people on each side you have an exponential decrease in effectiveness.

 

For example, I have a 50 Jugg with full champ armor (offensive and defensive sets) and in Ilum he is nearly useless. If he tries to attack he will be focused immediately and he is not tough enough to withstand the focus of 6 ranged folks at the same time.

 

Another point, I have a 14 sniper and a 22 Sentinel (read Marauder) among my gazillion alts. The sniper gets as much or more kills in WZs as my Sentinel and does comparable damage with usually half as many deaths. Range is just easier to play in this game than melee and SW/JK are particularly vulnerable/gimped/whatever you want to call it.

 

All that said, the combat is generally a lot of fun (if you don't mind dying a bunch) and very visceral feeling. A bit more survivability would make these classes ideal.

[Wuxxy]

I wouldn't consider PvPing on a SW (or JK for that matter) until level 30. Force Camouflage is literally amazing. Like, incredibly amazing. It is basically a 4 second vanish/speed boost on a 45 second cooldown. It is my lifeblood in PvP. I rolled a Sentinel (read Marauder) really early on and PvP'd with them both. I felt really useless as a Sentinel in the early levels. Meh damage, poor survivability, etc etc. So, I shelved him and rolled a Mercenary, which while fun, was really REALLY boring. So, I rolled a Marauder, figured with my newly acquired knowledge from playing other classes and a new strategy on leveling (IE Annihilol), I now feel incredibly strong at level 42.

 

In WZs, I usually get 300k damage plus the 75k healing medal, on top of the other usual ones to get there. It's hilarious jumping on someone when I have either max Fury or 6+ Rage initially, they just melt 1v1. And in 1v2+ situations, I can usually kill one and get away with Camouflage.

 

I do want to try out Rage spec, to get the perma-Predation in PvP but I haven't mustered the courage yet.

 

All in all, I love the Marauder in PvP now. The only downside, I guess, is it's just innately easier to get medals in WZs are hybrids (namely Tanks, cause Taunts are hilariously good in PvP).

[Aluvi]

Sith Warriors, like all melee classes in any MMO that I have ever played, are more difficult to play well in a pvp warzone than ranged classes. This is inherent; it is a given, however melee also has some great tools to compensate, and for those of us that love melee, chasing (as opposed to being chased/kiting) is half the fun. This does not mean that melee is worse, it simply means that you will need to play better and harder to achieve what ranged can with less effort.

 

Also, melee classes and especially marauders are very gear dependent, much more so than ranged classes, so unless you are in mostly champion gear or some mix of rakata/champ gear, expect to be thrown around. I would say the "average" item level in a warzone is going to be at least a mix of centurion and champion gear. So if you are running in there with greens or lvl ~50 ish custom gear and no expertise, yes expect to get crushed. And don't even think about trying to take down a battlemaster. A fully geared out BM will tear through fresh 50s like tissue paper.

 

Last, I'd like to add that marauders are the most difficult class to play well right now. they require the best cooldown use, timings, priority ability usage, and you have to know when to pick your fights. And there is no shame in hitting force camo so that you live long enough to get a heal.

 

And just to show that I'm not full of crap, here are some scoreboard screenshots of a few decent PvP matches (I am Aluvian, sith marauder). I get at least 300k on all but the most brutal games, and have even hit 500k. I think my record of all time was 600k, but that was before bracketed pvp so it was kind of cheating.

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1408/screenshot2012022517483.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1674/screenshot2012022309295.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4585/screenshot2012011421311.jpg

 

Also notice: as Annihilation spec Marauder, not only do I do great damage and lots of kills, but also substantial healing (135k healing + 500k damage in one warzone). Not exactly a full fledged healer, but nothing to sneeze at.

[jhnnybgood]

79 kills and 0 deaths?

 

Oh PLEASE buff Marauders!11!!1

 

My main is a 50 Jugg Immortal specced in mostly Champ/dash of Cent, and I gotta say I love it. Huttball is really where I feel I am most effective. I can move around that map so damn fast it's not even funny.

 

The only time I really felt inadequate the entire game was when I first hit 50. Those were some brutal hours shortly after that. Once I started getting geared though I have had no real issues with the class.

[lordofdamornin]

Warrior/Knight PvP is all about the two B's:

 

If geared well, and played well, they are a Beast.

 

If not played well, they are a...you get the picture.

 

Sounds to me like you are the former, and your friend is the latter, at least for the time being. Once I learned a few things (most notably, how to not Leap like a noob), my PvP experience got much, much better.

 

Riôt

[iTzKushy]

I love pvping on my marauder, some games you go untouched and some games your the focus for everyone. I really dont have any pvp gear atm, rank 27 valor lol. I played a warrior on wow so I know all about how it is to be melee in pvp. The only thing I dont like about the class is that the one stun you get as a marauder atleast, you have to channel and cant do anything other then channel it. Almost every other class has atleast 1-2 stuns. Having a stun would be nice, not complaining just if they implemented one that would be sweet. Edited February 26, 2012 by iTzKushy

[KhealThar]

I just hit 50 on my Jugg, I'm rage spec in soresu form and do about 200-300k damage 40-70k protection a game.

 

My server usually has a lot of healers that queue into randoms for some reason but it lets me stay a live a bit longer

 

but no, Juggs are definitely not weak, it's just Rage is a very gimmicky spec and smash can be very frustrating to use on a moving target because it's range is very short.

[Shakydvs]

He just tells me that he is constantly stunned to death or knocked back all the time (so much for having a CC breaker on a 2min CD). To me though, it seems that having a charge means you should save it for that moment. I dont know the CD on it however, so it's hard to judge.

 

When I play my BH, I treat it like a melee and I always go for the healers or the ranged in the back because I know they are the true threat and it keeps me from getting gibbed quickly. I'm fairly resilient being in heavy armor and having good CD's, but a good bout of focused anything and I crumble just like any other class. Maybe he doesnt know fully well what he is doing? He seems to be on the bottom when it comes to dealing damage, objectives, medals, etc... Where I'll get like 80-100 commendations per WZ, he gets maybe 50-70...Is that just how it inherently will be due to my ranged advantage?

 

A good marauder will pwn people fast and they also have great control on the battle field (depending on how you're spec'd) It sounds like hey loves to rush in without a thought in the world which leads him to get cc'd like no tomorrow. As a marauder you're supposed to pick your targets and not be the first in. you wait until the Jug has charged in drawn all the attention then you go for the target you want.

 

As far as escaping abilities he has so much, 99% reduction to dmg for 5 seconds, stealth for 4 seconds, (healing if he is specced for it). So much its actually pretty crazy.

 

tbh it doesnt sound like the Marauder is his style of play. maybe tell him to play a merc for 1 button i win.

[Scinald]

Sith Warriors, like all melee classes in any MMO that I have ever played, are more difficult to play well in a pvp warzone than ranged classes. This is inherent; it is a given, however melee also has some great tools to compensate, and for those of us that love melee, chasing (as opposed to being chased/kiting) is half the fun. This does not mean that melee is worse, it simply means that you will need to play better and harder to achieve what ranged can with less effort.

 

 

Heh....I appreciate the spirit of your post Aluvi, but if you have to play better and work harder to achieve the same results that ranged does, then by definition you are in a worse position i.e. melee are worse than ranged by most metrics this game has to offer.

 

It's nice to console yourself with thoughts that you are taking the road less travelled and have more skill than your opponents, but that does become cold comfort when you get roflstomped by a team of Vanguards, Commandos and Sages....esp since the Vanguards can do the melee thing too.