1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[iceperson]

All the NEW things they add will be vendored off in the next patch if we let this precedent go through.

 

if you let?

 

the sky is falling!

[Ranebow]

Stop bumping this worthless thread! Bioware is temporarily putting these vendors in the game to siphon credits from the economy. Why is this so hard to understand? They are not killing rarity and achievement, as there will be NEW things to achieve in 1.2. They simply want to give the economy a fresh start and reward players that have stuck around for 3 months with something that is only offered for a limited time. Let it die.

 

 

This is becoming a really cheap excuse to cover up what Bioware is really doing.

 

There is no economy, because a free trade economy requires multiple parties to have an investment of either time, money or both in order to work.

The vendors in these games are not real people or more to the point, they do not actively trade - nor does their status, their wares, their goods or their availability/stock change based on what real human players do.

To have a portion of the community spend large amounts of money with these vendors is only half the battle to 'balancing the economy' because the other half is having an economy to begin with. And price gouging isn't a full proof method - it will only cause people to hire goldfarmers or buy credits online to compensate.

 

PEOPLE WILL ABSOLUTELY PAY TWENTY DOLLARS TO GET A WHITE CRYSTAL - ESPECIALLY IF IT WILL BECOME OBSOLETE FOREVER AND EVER!

Is Bioware this ignorant? You can buy 2.5 million credits for less than twenty dollars at some places.

 

The arguement that it will "siphon" the money pool and help balance the economy is highly flawed.

 

In order to spend money, you have to have something worthwhile and consistent to spend it on - this is Bioware's fault, not the players - as there is nothing worth buying. The things necessary to buy, like stims and medpacks, are either a moot point because everyone went Biochem and use Rakata (Another Bioware oversight), or people cannot afford them consistently because they have little money because they keep having raid repairs due to all the deaths in the operations as a result of all the bugs in the operations(thank you again developers).

 

The reality is that Bioware realizes that despite all the supposed preorders and the hype being lived up to, the subscription rates have already taken a turn for the worst, people are catching onto the fact that it's WoW/Aion/Rift with a Star Wars badge on it, and they're already starting to leave.

 

Bioware's great idea is to do what all MMO companies do when they need a pick me-up...they bring out the fluff. The majority of MMO players are carebears and socialites, and if there's one thing they love, it's fluff. So out comes the expensive cutlery and dinner plates a.k.a. the speeders and special color crystals.

People will eat them up like the flying mounts in Warcraft and thus stick around to enjoy them.

Bioware saves face with their declining subscriptions and can 'afford' to move forward.

[shadowfoxe]

there is more they are rolling out , just because you were the first to obtain these status items does not mean there will not be more upcoming items to seek.

 

Everyone should be glad for this because its kinda unnecessary to make variety limited to only a few, i understand its nice to stand out but allow for everyone to have a bar to shoot for is key. This means you pressed on and got it first well now they will release stuff soon that is another thing for you to search for.

 

its never going to be left alone with nothing to go after for this is a MMO and they are banking on the fact that with monthly sub's to roll out PROGRESSIVELY new things for people to seek

[Dumpiduke]

*SNIP*

 

The arguement that it will "siphon" the money pool and help balance the economy is highly flawed.

 

In order to spend money, you have to have something worthwhile and consistent to spend it on - this is Bioware's fault, not the players - as there is nothing worth buying. The things necessary to buy, like stims and medpacks, are either a moot point because everyone went Biochem and use Rakata (Another Bioware oversight), or people cannot afford them consistently because they have little money because they keep having raid repairs due to all the deaths in the operations as a result of all the bugs in the operations(thank you again developers).

 

*SNIP*

 

/sigh

 

Did you not read the blog regarding the economy changes? They are essentially reinventing how crew skills work at 50 and are shifting the economy to a more player driven system in 1.2. Whether or not they'll be successful is yet to be seen, but it's what they're trying to accomplish here. They ARE siphoning money out of the economy in hopes that it will bring balance to an over inflated credit market.

 

Credit farmers/sellers are a necessary evil in any MMO that has a satisfying player driven economy. It's inevitable, and I welcome it because it's a worthy sacrifice for a legitimate in-game economy.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Dumpiduke

[Ranebow]

there is more they are rolling out , just because you were the first to obtain these status items does not mean there will not be more upcoming items to seek.

 

Everyone should be glad for this because its kinda unnecessary to make variety limited to only a few, i understand its nice to stand out but allow for everyone to have a bar to shoot for is key. This means you pressed on and got it first well now they will release stuff soon that is another thing for you to search for.

 

its never going to be left alone with nothing to go after for this is a MMO and they are banking on the fact that with monthly sub's to roll out PROGRESSIVELY new things for people to seek

 

More to come? What could they possibly put in the game that would make any difference?

If we're talking items, nothing can be more crucial to the center mass and existence of the Star Wars theme, than the light saber, where the most prominent feature is the colored light(or color of the light).

And if we're talking content, well it's too early for that, way too early.

And if we're talking mechanics, that will not happen. The engine will stay, the algorithms will stay. SWTOR was/is just a cash cow for more Mass Effect development and ultimately a cash cow for everyone in the Lucas industry.

 

You mentioned variety limited to only a few.

 

Which sounds worse, items that are BUYABLE (through means that involved very little effort or time - the antithesis of MMORGP) for a limited amount of time, or items that are OBTAINABLE(via a-typical MMORPG methods, i.e. raids) for an indefinite amount of time.

 

 

How things are remembered :

 

EverQuest scenario :

 

New player(Analyn) 'Hi where did you get your sword'

Thanador 'a hello young lass. This here sword is Fordinad, a gift from an ancient Goddess '

Analyn 'Oh wow how did you get that?'

Thanador 'Long ago we, the children of Firiona Vie, met the minions of Lanys T'vyl in the forest of Kithicor. There, we battled the hordes of evil until at a decisive moment in the battle, Lanys distorted time and space to escape the wrath of Firiona.

Analyn 'Then what happened!?!?'

Thanador 'If Kithicor were a city, it would lay in ruins. The trees, the grass, the animals... all a smoulder, and the sunlight blocked with an ethereal mist, a shroud of darkness. Now Kithicor is a place of unspeakable evils, a haven for the undead - constantly in a state of night time, the fallen soldiers of the bloody battle roam the hillsides seeking vengeance on the living. Those who dare to pass through it, be warned.

Analyn 'that's really cool, and you were actually there' 'I hope I get to do something like that one day'

 

 

 

Star Wars scenario:

 

New player Holister 'Hi where did you get your light saber?'

Captain Janis 'Ah, bought it at a vendor some months ago'

Holister 'Oh is the vendor still around, do you need special tokens?'

Captain Janis 'Nah, just credits, and vendor is gone'

Holister 'Oh....well that sucks'

 

 

 

Que awkward silence

 

 

/sigh

 

Did you not read the blog regarding the economy changes? They are essentially reinventing how crew skills work at 50 and are shifting the economy to a more player driven system in 1.2. Whether or not they'll be successful is yet to be seen, but it's what they're trying to accomplish here. They ARE siphoning money out of the economy in hopes that it will bring balance to an over inflated credit market.

 

Credit farmers/sellers are a necessary evil in any MMO that has a satisfying player driven economy. It's inevitable, and I welcome it because it's a worthy sacrifice for a legitimate in-game economy.

 

You mean where they prattle on about how they'll reinvent the wheel (strawman I know) with their crafting overhaul?

 

And the fact you just openly admitted to supporting gold farming is not a massive worry - what's scary is you think it's appropriate as a means to a "legitimate in-game economy"

You realize what you're saying? Sounds like you've been kicked down enough times by MMO developers, that you've given up the fight.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Ranebow

[Hxxr]

Magenta crystal schematics - dropping from world bosses - 250 000 CR in crystal vendor

Cyan crystals - obtained only through PvE lvl56 gear (and as build-in PvP Champion sabers) - 125k from crystal vendor

Purple crystals - obtained only through PvE lvl56 gear (and as build-in PvP Champion sabers) - 250k from crystal vendor

+41 Expertise crystals - expertise gear obtained only through PvP bags - 125k from crystal vendor

 

For one "built in" crystals can't really be used as such ... because they're built in, so why name them here? And it is really obvious what Bioware is trying to do here ... give us diversity - some crystals have their restrictions removed and I have yet to see cyan crystals on the Imperial side as of yet, so it will be something new. Just as new as Expertise crystals, wich don't exist yet.

 

Or white crystals. And you really want to tell me you shake 5 mil out of your sleeve to have a dual wielding char fire white projectiles?

Yes, it's just currency. And it's quite a lot for most people - would I not be one of the largest Stim suppliers on my server, I woulnd't see how to come up with that kind of cash.

Reading between the lines I just see how a lot of folks don't want to play the economy game ... but then you won't get vendor-only items. Like someone who doesn't raid won't get shiny epics. Nothing wrong with that.

 

And the speeders? They're probably sold to everyone to make room for new ones coming with 1.2.

[Dumpiduke]

 

And the fact you just openly admitted to supporting gold farming is not a massive worry - what's scary is you think it's appropriate as a means to a "legitimate in-game economy"

You realize what you're saying? Sounds like you've been kicked down enough times by MMO developers, that you've given up the fight.

 

I don't support gold farming, but I realize that it is a by-product of a successful in-game economy. I've never bought in-game currency before in my life, nor do I intend to. I want a useful economy in game, yes, it's unfortunately that gold farming becomes more prevalent as a result. I'll fight by not supporting them, and I'll encourage others to do the same.

[ShogunAvitus]

Cant find any info on WHEN this patch will hit our servers?

Anyone knows this?

[Lord-Caedus]

You know, it is not like they are suddenly selling Armor sets. People are crying about Color crystals being temporarily available and saying that bioware is totally selling out, but they are not. In KOTOR 1 & 2 all of these color crystals were available everywhere, there is no reason why they shouldn't be available now. Will it cut down on the awe factor of somebody seeing you with your magenta lightsaber? Maybe. I am not mad about this because the magenta lightsaber crystal was NOT BoP. Right now if you have it, all it means is that you have a lot of spare credits, not necessarily that you earned it.

 

Lightsaber/Blaster colors may become more common, but armor for you "high end raiders" is still going to make you stand out. They are just making the game more enjoyable for people in general. It is still a great game.

 

Enjoy it.

[Comaeus]

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8541/42511729406856064905010.jpg

[Cuillin]

I don't raid so not an issue for me.

[Overlord_Orcus]

As soon as companies realized they could not only make a profit from gamers, but become filthy rich off of us, the "ZoMg special uber leet lolhardcore" content stopped.

 

Personally, I haven't seen NEAR the crybabying for this game that I have seen for others. People don't seem to care about the current endgame (the lack thereof) or what color crystal anyone has.

 

Hell.. if they offered everything on vendors that was available through every type of "endgame" (PvE/PvP/Crafting/Dailies/etc)... who cares?

 

They could attach a title to the achievements of doing it the "hard" way. They could give the title "Laziest of Carebears" to people who just bhttp://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3090943uy it. I know I'd wear the title proudly... along with THOUSANDS of others.

 

It's a video game. Modern developers realize that gaming is a hobby, it's not a lifestyle (for 97% of gamers.. and yup, statistics online are always true), and one that most people do for fun. Healthy people feel accomplished in real life and don't need to parade around in something purple to think they completed some hard task.

 

The shed they built in the backyard or alternator that was replaced in their 2002 Mercury Cougar (Look it up.. it ain't easy) means more than killing pixels over and over to get a drop.

 

I used to spend 40+ hours a week raiding, farming for repair bill/mats, crafting for raid nights, officer meetings.. etc... etc... etc..

 

That was before I had children, a wife, a college degree, and a career. Sure, I could still be all LOLHARDCORE and get things done, but it's just not important... just as it's not important for a majority of gamers.

 

The loud minority that cares about accomplishing something in a video game should keep looking. SWTOR will never have what you are looking for, nor will any other mass marketed MMO. Your hardmodes will be nerfed, your gear will be had by all, your titles mean little when 6 months later, people solo content to get them.

 

MMOs, by design, are meant to be enjoyed by as many people as possible (unless your market is Asian only, or it's EvE online). Why would companies spend so much money for content that few, comparatively, will experience? Blizzard tried to go back to LOLHARDCORE. They were rewarded with less than 6% of players actually doing it. They lost millions of subscribers. They backpedaled somewhat. They got subscribers back... somewhat.

 

People spend so much time ranting and raving about a video game... jeebus. If it's important enough to post about, and you don't think it will change, just quit the game. There is no contract that forces anyone to continue playing something they dislike.

 

You are wrong with something you said. There is no such thing as EvE online. It is EVE Online

 

It never has, never will be, and never is EvE except in the hands, eyes, and hearts of *******.

 

Having said that, love your post, and completely agree.

[Sevvy_Boo]

I love the fallacy that is constantly committed on gaming forums that goes something like this:

 

If you have a spouse, children, a job, a college degree, a house, an apartment, or any material object/status marker that erroneously indicates one "having a life," then that means that games should "just be games" and should never be a challenge.

 

If you do not have these status markers, then you do not have a life. You live in your mother's basement with no ambition and only gain satisfaction through being challenged in a game, because, since your life is so empty, you find no challenge or fulfillment elsewhere.

 

Obviously these statements are both ultimately false because they are broad generalizations. One thing that is true however is that the people who espouse these views are all, in fact, complete idiots.

 

See my signature for further guidance.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sevvy_Boo

[Overlord_Orcus]

I love the fallacy that is constantly committed on gaming forums that goes something like this:

 

If you have a spouse, children, a job, a college degree, a house, an apartment, or any material object/status marker that erroneously indicates one "having a life," then that means that games should "just be games" and should never be a challenge.

 

If you do not have these status markers, then you do not have a life. You live in your mother's basement with no ambition and only gain satisfaction through being challenged in a game, because, since your life is so empty, you find no challenge or fulfillment elsewhere.

 

Obviously these statements are both ultimately false because they are broad generalizations. One thing that is true however is that the people who espouse these views are all, in fact, complete idiots.

 

See my signature for further guidance.

 

I love how you, yourself, make broad generalisations. I also love how you imply that the post I quoted, states that those who do not have such things have no life. he merely stated that he has a life, has these things, thus plays games as a hobby and not a lifestyle.

 

Also no where does it say that there should be no challenge, and that the game should be easy mode.

 

However, I must add that, in my experience, themepark style games, like this, while they may contain enemies that have high stats, are still generally NOT challenging in any real sense. After all, it is simply a matter of using x attack combo for max dps, x skill combo for tanking, heal tank. There is little need for thought.

 

And since we are so restricted in what we can equip, and what powers we can use, there is no variety like there is in the likes of FFVII, VIII, Oblivion, etc

 

TOR, like most themeparks, and all the ones I have personally played, is easy mode. Hard modes just require better gear, they still add no real challenge.

[Sevvy_Boo]

I love how you, yourself, make broad generalisations. I also love how you imply that the post I quoted, states that those who do not have such things have no life. he merely stated that he has a life, has these things, thus plays games as a hobby and not a lifestyle.

 

Also no where does it say that there should be no challenge, and that the game should be easy mode.

 

However, I must add that, in my experience, themepark style games, like this, while they may contain enemies that have high stats, are still generally NOT challenging in any real sense. After all, it is simply a matter of using x attack combo for max dps, x skill combo for tanking, heal tank. There is little need for thought.

 

And since we are so restricted in what we can equip, and what powers we can use, there is no variety like there is in the likes of FFVII, VIII, Oblivion, etc

 

TOR, like most themeparks, and all the ones I have personally played, is easy mode. Hard modes just require better gear, they still add no real challenge.

 

 

Stop feeling singled out and pretending that this thread hasn't been nearly 100 pages of nerd raging.

[Norke]

See what we get:

- Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor.

- Social speeder for credits with no social rank requirement (added since edit below)

- VIP speeder from vendor

- all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved.

 

 

1. So? You still have to put in the work to get the crystal. And it's not like if you want Magenta bad enough you can't just buy it off the GTN. (Gone by 1.2)

2. Until 1.2

3. Until 1.2

4. Until 1.2

 

The main reason for 1.1.5 in all honesty is to attempt to shrink the economy and get some credits off of some players that are hoarding them. Will some people be walking around with some of this stuff? Sure! But that'll only make up a small portion of the player base. Once you factor out the people who can actually afford the stuff from the vendor and then subtract the people who actually want to buy the stuff from the vendor, it's really a bigger deal on paper then practic.

 

And as far as the mounts, after 1.2 a lot of those go away, so you can feel like a special care bear then when your one of the few months down the line that has one.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Norke

[Dayfax]

However, I must add that, in my experience, themepark style games, like this, while they may contain enemies that have high stats, are still generally NOT challenging in any real sense. After all, it is simply a matter of using x attack combo for max dps, x skill combo for tanking, heal tank. There is little need for thought.

 

[...]

 

TOR, like most themeparks, and all the ones I have personally played, is easy mode. Hard modes just require better gear, they still add no real challenge.

 

Pre-nerf hardmode Rags would like a word with you. So would KJ, for that matter.

[Cruorpunctis]

The crystals you can get in the 2 weeks of 1.1.5 are nothing but a money sink to decrease the amount of credits floating around. The crystals you can buy in 1.1.5 for exorbitant prices will become outdated in 1.2 due to the fact that a new tier of gear is being released.... Artiface will be far more viable as a crafting profession then it is now.. and not just for selling crystals.

 

And for those complaining about the valor changes... you do realize that they are also temporary right? right??

No one gives a **** about the battlemaster title in its current state and nothing will change about that in 1.1.5. Battlemaster does not equal skill. They are only making it more easily attainable currently so that more people will be on an even playing field gearwise for 1.2 with ranked warzones, a revamp of the current pvp gearing system, and a new tier of pvp gear which will be better then battlemaster gear is currenty >.>

Edited March 4, 2012 by Cruorpunctis

[Sky_walkerPL]

1. So? You still have to put in the work to get the crystal. And it's not like if you want Magenta bad enough you can't just buy it off the GTN. (Gone by 1.2)

2. Until 1.2

3. Until 1.2

4. Until 1.2

We all are perfectly aware that it's only till 1.2. It changes exactly: nothing.

And: Yea, we need to put a work in crystal itself, but it removes half of the fun people had with World Bosses. And these folks collecting all the schematics to be a bit of an "unique crafters" (something BioWare wanted to create in a first place) are now completely screwed by pricing all their effort at 250k

FOR NO REASON.

 

There is nothing to justify giving away magenta schematics from vendor.

Yes, nothing.

1. They already HAVE established way of obtaining them, one that doesn't collide with ANYTHING and gives people a reason to actually go and hunt for World Bosses - with schematics vendored there isn't any real motivation for it.

2. It's not a money sink. 250k is like.... 1 day for dailies - how do they plan to sink any money from economy when earning money to obtain all 3 magenta crystal schematics will take less time than this patch will be online in a first place.

 

So... what the heck BioWare?! You just make poo on people's head just for a sake of making it?!

 

The main reason for 1.1.5 in all honesty is to attempt to shrink the economy and get some credits off of some players that are hoarding them.

Problem is two fold:

1. It changes exactly nothing. At lvl50 there's still NO money sinks to help remove cash pumped-in by dailies. And to make it more funny: Patch 1.2 as far as we know it will make it only worse by adding new series of dailies and allowing crafters to stock-up money in huge amounts thanks to orange-crafting.

2. There are better ways for it than allowing ppl to buy rare items AND removing restrictions from items AND screwing Artifice economy - as if it wouldn't be bad enough already.

[Atreiya]

It won't.

 

It's the patch 1.2 that you look for.

 

1.1.5 will give items from vendors - the items you gonna be able to craft in 1.2.

So sorry mate, but thanks to 1.1.5 I won't need your Artifice anymore. I'll gear up, buy few crystals in reserve for alts and your artifice will be as useless as it was till now.

 

Oh, wait: Actually it will be more useless cause currently you can craft something unique: magenta crystal. After the patch you'll be screwed more than you are now.

 

Really? Because I've made a fair bit selling artifact-level OHs - I don't even bother with crystals because it's clear that people are selling them for so little that there's no point in it on my server (unless you have a magenta schematic). Sooner or later, other people would have gotten the schematic anyway and put an end to your monopoly. The new patch is just doing this a little faster, and you should be able to adapt - even if you sell for less than 125k or whatever the price ends up being, I imagine you'd still be making a profit. If not, you can switch to crafting something else.

 

I'm a raider with my WoW guild, and I've gotten gear, achievements, and titles the hard way. In my opinion, if you know that you did something the "honest" way (as it were), you should be able to find satisfaction enough in that (I do on my enhancement shaman). As far as 1.1.5 goes, I don't really have a problem with people temporarily being able to buy a "special" speeder or a couple of color crystals. And even if the crystal thing were permanent, I wouldn't care all that much if they compensated by providing us with better schematics for OHs and other craftable items.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Atreiya

[Divona]

 

There is nothing to justify giving away magenta schematics from vendor.

 

 

Really? Im looking again and again and again and what i see, they putting on vendor magenta schematics that give +33 stats while new and better crystals are also on next patch and with major update 1.2

 

Even if they wouldnt put magenta schematics on vendor who would buy crystals lvl 49 that have lesser stats than new crystals coming in couple weeks with major crafting overhaul?

 

 

No one will go near that world boss after patch 1.2 unless they put better version of that crystal schematic on loot table.

 

 

But im sure you still will continue your crusade here, for the sake of it. But few more days left

[FryChikN]

unfortunately WoW pretty much killed MMO's being a challenge. and feeling rewarding. im not even a hardcore gamer or anything(infact i garantee i have less play time than everybody on this thread and i started playing during beta, hell i dont even have a lvl 50 yet.) and SADLY i think its just something we as a community have to accept, video games in general are no longer about testing skill and mastery over something. or just being fun,intense,and challenging. nope. its about giving people what they want no matter what pretty much. I mean look at the last few years in video games, the only game that prides itself that it has some sort of challenge is dark souls. every other video game doesnt care and infact they are just beyond easy. the highest selling game last quarter? skyrim, that game is so *********** easy its beyond stupid. but thats what gamers want.

 

i dont play this game that much, but i do like my character actually being superior to another if i am actually a superior player, or have done superior feats or whatever. as people say, its just a game, you shouldnt be worried if my character is superior than yours if i put in the work.

[Vulgram]

However, I must add that, in my experience, themepark style games, like this, while they may contain enemies that have high stats, are still generally NOT challenging in any real sense. After all, it is simply a matter of using x attack combo for max dps, x skill combo for tanking, heal tank. There is little need for thought.

Ridiculous. Well, maybe less so in this game, but they've assured us in the guild summit that they're going to try and fix that.

 

And since we are so restricted in what we can equip, and what powers we can use, there is no variety like there is in the likes of FFVII, VIII, Oblivion, etc

This lack of restriction trivializes the challenge in those games. Oblivion and Skyrim, while loads of fun, were painfully simple. More importantly, they lack the social organization and execution component required to defeat the content that you're disregarding. MMOs are team games.

 

TOR, like most themeparks, and all the ones I have personally played, is easy mode. Hard modes just require better gear, they still add no real challenge.

No, they actually come with pass/fail mechanics and throughput checks that both need taken care of if you're going to beat an encounter (well, the better encounters). But again, this game simply tacks on a ~15% between 'modes' so I can understand your confusion.

[RealAeiouy]

People who can not deal with change should not play mmogs. How and why various items are obtained will change. If it is an issue this is not the right game genre

[Windst]

People who can not deal with change should not play mmogs. How and why various items are obtained will change. If it is an issue this is not the right game genre

 

No should or shouldn't. Stop being elitist. If people like playing and paying for a game. They should do what they want whether or not it satisfies you. If you dont like the people. Quit mmos