Much like SWG is remembered now. Another vehicle to shamelessly pimp out the Star Wars intellectual property by any means possible. You figure Lucas would just get embarrassed at some point ...

DAoC > old school WoW (although some Arena seasons were nicely balanced). Looking forward to GW2 PvP. This game probably has the worst PvP I've seen, large part of that deriving from the horrible engine. Given the heavy focus on "story", acting and questing, I suppose it shouldn't be too much of a surprise but with the gigantic budget and how new it was all supposed to be, I was hoping for a lot more.

More interested in paying $$ for a game that has realized its potential, not the promise of something better. I played for Ops and PvP. 1.2 failed the latter in spectacular fashion and given the tiny size of the new Op and the missing difficulty level, the former was underwhelming as well.

Considering the ridiculous advantage ranged specs have in the style of WZ maps they put in this game, I doubt that will happen.

GW2 Warrior or Diablo 3 Barb. Looking forward to no sub $$ for PvP.

Seriously? Hey grats on SWTOR Ops. You're like the world's tallest midget.

Ridiculous. Well, maybe less so in this game, but they've assured us in the guild summit that they're going to try and fix that. This lack of restriction trivializes the challenge in those games. Oblivion and Skyrim, while loads of fun, were painfully simple. More importantly, they lack the social organization and execution component required to defeat the content that you're disregarding. MMOs are team games. No, they actually come with pass/fail mechanics and throughput checks that both need taken care of if you're going to beat an encounter (well, the better encounters). But again, this game simply tacks on a ~15% between 'modes' so I can understand your confusion.

^^ This. I guess the Anni superstars posting here don't run into healers who know they have a cleanse amongst their abilities? First couple of times that happened, I spec'd out. It may have a slightly higher ceiling than Carnage (which is underrated IMO), but having your damage shut down so easily with no response in your arsenal is just too crappy an experience for me to run it regularly. Also, not sure why Annihilate gets compared straight up to Massacre so often when the latter can be spammed -- and on a 1 second GCD every time you hit 30 stacks. They're used in entirely different ways; Crit Scream would even be a closer analogy given the function they serve (i.e. burst).

^^ I'm amazed at how low people's expectations have dropped. Do people compare other consumer products that are launched now to products that were launched 7 years ago? I hope not, but I guess it's your money. The fact of the matter is you shop vs. what is in the marketplace today, not in terms of hypotheticals. I hope TOR enjoys the lull between major releases, because that is the sole reason they're still hanging onto my $. If GW2 flops and TOR shows they can fix their raid game and PvP mess, then they will hang onto it longer. If not, well, I guess they'll still have the old SWG/IP loving crowd. WoW's launch redefined the market reach of the genre. Even they were unprepared for the deluge. BW has had 7yrs and ~$300M to prepare. They could have done much better.

Sums up my feelings too. Excellent post. Although I'm not sure where the OP's high expectations for raiding in TOR came from in the first place (maybe it was the game in general).

Attempting to tune 8 man content to be on the same footing as 16 accomplishes only ONE thing -- it trivializes your overall raid game. BW admits to building 'slack' into the larger format as a means of lowering the difficulty. What they're trying to ignore is that the best, most rewarding, raid encounters in *any* game have required excellent throughput and execution from every raider, not just a subset of better performing raiders. It's a team game. MMOs are social by nature and building a team is part of that socialization. Assembling a well oiled, high performance 16 man team is a more difficult accomplishment than coming up with an 8 man team. BW might as well have standardized their raid size if they're going to consciously submarine the larger track anyway. TOR's raiding is already on such shaky footing due to a lack of difficulty and incentive to run 'Nightmare' (lol) modes. This would just nuke it IMO.

Intervene vs. Intercede Intimidating Shoud vs. Intimidating Roar ^^ found those particularly funny.

Yes, the Shockwater was being used in a way that wasn't intended ... however it only shone a light on TOR's broken PvP "progression" system: - The medal system rewards the wrong behavior in the first place - The medal system penalizes ACs that are incapable of achieving either guard or heal thresholds Nope, it doesn't make much sense but this isn't really a PvP focused game so I expected it to be all kinds of broken ... and it is!

Not sure what the hell you've been used to in the past, but the most important information I've gotten from WoL in the past is exactly the kind of information that you think is devalued. Interrupts, dispels, trinket use and dozens of other key metrics can be measured in other games. Effective DPS is a small part of the value of combat logs. Sounds like you've had some painful PuG experiences? Oh well.

Yes, the Shockwater was being used in a way that wasn't intended ... however it only shone a light on TOR's broken PvP "progression" system: - The medal system rewards the wrong behavior in the first place - The medal system penalizes ACs that are incapable of achieving either guard or heal thresholds Nope, it doesn't make much sense but this isn't really a PvP focused game so I expected it to be all kinds of broken ... and it is!

Welcome to 8 years ago. Expectations have been raised.

There's no point including epeen. "Nightmare" mode betrays the meaning of the word. Raiding in this game is a massive disappointment.

Got excited by this thread, logged in, queued up. Nope, same horrible combat engine that's been implemented since release. Here is the fundamental problem from a design standpoint - they prioritized style and art over feel and responsiveness. My toon looks amazing going through his lightsaber sequences, but combat is disconnected (i.e. delay, de-synched damage vs. animation etc.). God I hope this isn't some permanent new direction from design studios, as the last two MMOs I've tried suffered from the same thing. EDIT - what the guy above me said. It honestly seems unfixable.

I thought so too initially, but when I looked at Quinn's spells 3 out of 4 were instant.

Oh man, that's a relief. Thanks for the response. Her eyes actually look red atm, but if the Codex entry is bugged then I'm not concerned.

I just got Jaesa. I'm trying to figure out how I ended up with a LS version of her when: - I had a Dark alignment of 6400 going in (Dark III) - I guess some of these are technically spoilers... I actually read this thread before getting her as a companion ... I don't see how she could have possibly ended up LS. Is her Codex entry just bugged or what? (likes helping others etc. ... ***?!)

Ran 20 missions across my 2 companions today and have *almost* broken even. I'm sure BW has excellent data to draw from so I have to assume that this is intended? I'd like a comment one way or another before dropping Slicing for something beneficial. I may give it another day to see if you can average a modest profit from missions but I'm not seeing the value at the moment; aside from it returning a net loss, it now compares very unfavorably to other options. I think the above was the real issue. Slicing seemed fine at max level, it's just stupid at lower levels.