glenbruton Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come. Terrified? Really?! methinks he doesnt know what terrified means. Edited February 27, 2012 by glenbruton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Except my analogy was based on effort involved. You are apparently of the opinion that effort should not be rewarded. We both pay $15, I put in 20-30 hours to get a specific mount, then next week someone gets that exact same mount for 1-2 hours of work. You WERE rewarded. You got to see the endgame content first and use all the toys 2 months before anyone else. If you think that's fair, I hope to god you don't carry that belief into real life. And I think you should stop conflating a videogame with real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 See what we get: - Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor. - Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor These two are not rare. Damn near everyone on my server has magenta crystals, because there are so many people who already have the schematics. With other things being released (+41 stat black-yellow pre-oreder crystals from vendor) the Magenta ones aren't even that good by comparison anyway. All BW is doing is making it so future people do not need to farm world bosses for a week to get a cut that nobody wants. And the Ops speeders are not "very rare." The drop rate on boss mounts in swtor is nowhere near as crappy as they are in WoW. In fact, just this week after clearing EV and KP on norm, BOTH end bosses dropped the mount. My HM runs also had one drop. The only reason I can see to complain about making them any easier to get than they already are must be that "I wanna be special" feeling. With another Ops coming out, I'm guessing BW is assuming people will not run these Ops anymore. The PvP mounts, well, nobody has them on my server, but I think its more that nobody wants them. They're easy enough to get, the only hard part is getting the Valor level, which is grindy, but in no way hard, nor rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 These two are not rare. Damn near everyone on my server has magenta crystals, because there are so many people who already have the schematics. With other things being released (+41 stat black-yellow pre-oreder crystals from vendor) the Magenta ones aren't even that good by comparison anyway. All BW is doing is making it so future people do not need to farm world bosses for a week to get a cut that nobody wants. And the Ops speeders are not "very rare." The drop rate on boss mounts in swtor is nowhere near as crappy as they are in WoW. In fact, just this week after clearing EV and KP on norm, BOTH end bosses dropped the mount. My HM runs also had one drop. The only reason I can see to complain about making them any easier to get than they already are must be that "I wanna be special" feeling. With another Ops coming out, I'm guessing BW is assuming people will not run these Ops anymore. The PvP mounts, well, nobody has them on my server, but I think its more that nobody wants them. They're easy enough to get, the only hard part is getting the Valor level, which is grindy, but in no way hard, nor rare. Yah, they really are blowing this way out of proportion. It's not like bioware is putting Rakatta or battlemaster gear on the vendors. It's just color crystals and speeders. Who the hell cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xJeTsTaRx Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Except my analogy was based on effort involved. You are apparently of the opinion that effort should not be rewarded. We both pay $15, I put in 20-30 hours to get a specific mount, then next week someone gets that exact same mount for 1-2 hours of work. If you think that's fair, I hope to god you don't carry that belief into real life. Sad but this happens in the real world all the time. Im not agreeing that its fare especially not in the specific context it originated from. However your analogy is flawed, most things depreciate in value in the real world. Take a car for example, go buy yourself a car today and see how much you can get that same car for in 2 years. PS: These vendors a temporary... Edited February 27, 2012 by xJeTsTaRx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yah, they really are blowing this way out of proportion. It's not like bioware is putting Rakatta or battlemaster gear on the vendors. It's just color crystals and speeders. Who the hell cares? And even then, they are doing it because too many people were QQ'ing about how hard it is to get color-crystals, and they are all stat dependent, and that it should just be your choice what color you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The part of this analogy that fails hardcore is that you're not a star employee. From Bioware's POV, you're just one type of player and the other guy is another type of player. You both pay $15 and neither is worth more than the other. I'm not understanding your argument, not even close. So you think that every piece of gear, every mount, every crystal etc. should eventually become available to whoever wants it so long as they have the credits for it? Everything will be devalued, even prior to them becoming available to everyone because many of the people who would've put in the work to get the item beforehand will now just wait it out and buy it. It's called supply and demand. Increase the supply of something, the demand goes down and soon after so does the price. I'd rock the magenta crystal right now if I had one but if everyone had one I wouldn't be caught dead with a pink lightsaber. You will decrease the wow factor of items if people know soon enough they'll be able to get one for themselves if they just wait a month or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) You WERE rewarded. You got to see the endgame content first and use all the toys 2 months before anyone else. Wait, you're talking about raiding? I'm talking about rare items in general, I dont give a crap if their raid drops or world drops or 2 month long epic quest rewards. Keeping people out of endgame content has never been mentioned or even considered in my arguments. And I think you should stop conflating a videogame with real life. Well, I apologize for not thinking i'm entitled to whatever I want simply because I want it, I was actually raised with the mentality of "you want something, you put in an effort to get it". Seriously, what sooo wrong with just having rare items that STAY as rare items? Keeping the "special snowflakes*" playing is just ridiculous. If somebody grinded for months because they wanted that specific item, making it free to all or not is gonna have no effect on whether they go after the next tier of stuff. Same with people who get it simply because it's rare. They're gonna go after the next tier because it's also rare, not because you made their old stuff common. *The fact that people actually feel the need insult those of us who like rare items is frankly kinda pathetic Edited February 27, 2012 by Akirator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not understanding your argument, not even close. So you think that every piece of gear, every mount, every crystal etc. should eventually become available to whoever wants it so long as they have the credits for it? No, that's not how the model works. The casuals want to see the content too, so that old gear will still be on the same bosses, but the bosses will be severely nerfed so casuals can beat them. It's a successful model. These vendors are temporary. It looks like those crystals and speeders will become schematics that artificers and cybertechs can use, and then the vendors will be removed in 1.2. I'd rock the magenta crystal right now if I had one but if everyone had one I wouldn't be caught dead with a pink lightsaber. GOOD. Crystal color choice should have always been a favorite-color thing anyway, not a status symbol. You will decrease the wow factor of items if people know soon enough they'll be able to get one for themselves if they just wait a month or two. History says it doesn't work that way. The unique snowflake types are ALWAYS willing to put in the effort to be 2 months ahead of everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hello everyone, We wanted to remind everyone to check out the Developer Tracker - we've had some posts from Georg recently regarding 1.1.5. You can also find the preliminary notes for 1.1.5 in our Public Test Server forum as well. Patch Notes - 1.1.5 Additionally, we do want to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in the forums as well as this topic is becoming heated. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks Please stay on topic. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post. Thank you! Make sure you check out the Developer Tracker frequently for the latest information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xJeTsTaRx Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not understanding your argument, not even close. So you think that every piece of gear, every mount, every crystal etc. should eventually become available to whoever wants it so long as they have the credits for it? Everything will be devalued, even prior to them becoming available to everyone because many of the people who would've put in the work to get the item beforehand will now just wait it out and buy it. It's called supply and demand. Increase the supply of something, the demand goes down and soon after so does the price. I'd rock the magenta crystal right now if I had one but if everyone had one I wouldn't be caught dead with a pink lightsaber. You will decrease the wow factor of items if people know soon enough they'll be able to get one for themselves if they just wait a month or two. I have to pop in here and put in my opinion . I dont mind them doing what they are doing, because they are only temporary vendors. So think of it as a perk for people that were here pre 1.2 especially considering that 1.2 is the first BIG update. I also think with 1.2 there will be lots more things to come that were not available yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnyxHero Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 All these crystals are 56 anyway... who knows, maybe they'll add some 58 in raids to match, you know rakata level and BM level for Artificing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuckered Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 its a gimmick to try and get some subscribers back before 1.2 hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 While leveling I got the longspur recon speeder (think thats the name) off of Revan in the foundry, I was pretty stoked. Then I saw that you could buy it from the pvp vendor for a fairly low amount of commendations and I was a bit bummed, what I thought was a rare drop really wasn't rare or solely a drop. I don't want everything to be handed to me. I wanna work for the shinies I get and I want others to have to put in the same amount of work to get theirs, what is so wrong with that? The sense of entitlement some people have is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 While leveling I got the longspur recon speeder (think thats the name) off of Revan in the foundry, I was pretty stoked. Then I saw that you could buy it from the pvp vendor for a fairly low amount of commendations and I was a bit bummed, what I thought was a rare drop really wasn't rare or solely a drop. I don't want everything to be handed to me. I wanna work for the shinies I get and I want others to have to put in the same amount of work to get theirs, what is so wrong with that? The sense of entitlement some people have is astounding. It wasn't that rare to begin with. I've seen it drop a good 4 or 5 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Next you will be telling me that developers need to cater to the Hardcore Raiders because people look up to you. No, but I do think diversity and different levels of rewards is good for the game. If everyone was running around in the same gear, with the same speeder, the same color crystal choices and the same titles none of them would have any meaning or stand out from the rest. I think there should be rewards for those that enjoy questing more than other aspects of the game, like a title for completing X amount of quests along with some unique gear or mount or RP item. But understand that many of the hardcore raiders are going to go for those rewards as well just to have them and then we're back to square one and the casuals complaining that the raiders get all the good stuff. It's just the way it is. Don't fault the raiders for the rewards they get from raiding. If you want the stuff they get then go raid and get it. I just don't see any way to make content that only casuals can gain access to, the hardcore player will always be able to get what they can get if they want it. The opposite isn't true, not everyone has the time or skill to clear harder content. It's just the way it is and devaluing everything and offering it from vendors so that nothing is special isn't the answer. Edited February 27, 2012 by Arnathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No, but I do think diversity and different levels of rewards is good for the game. If everyone was running around in the same gear, with the same speeder, the same color crystal choices and the same titles none of them would have any meaning or stand out from the rest. That has never happened and there's no evidence to suggest it will happen here now. So why are you even asking this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 That has never happened and there's no evidence to suggest it will happen here now. So why are you even asking this question? what question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No and you can't make us. Raid or die is dead in MMO's Bioware and every other developers knows this, in fact Arenanet absolutely loathes Raiding and the raider mentality...even Blizzard is scrambling to offer more things for their non-raider players. Face it you are a microscopic minority and your days of best gear and exclusive content are pretty much over I think you're seeing things in your head that aren't really happening... BioWare wouldn't have copied the WoW raid model 1:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think you're seeing things in your head that aren't really happening... BioWare wouldn't have copied the WoW raid model 1:1 Don't taunt him bro, he'll at you, you don't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 what question? You're right, I phrased that poorly. Why are you using the argument that destruction of all diversity is bad when there's no destruction of all diversity going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plompkin Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think you're seeing things in your head that aren't really happening... BioWare wouldn't have copied the WoW raid model 1:1 Which is awful because we don't want WoW Raiders. Those entitled little buttholes are the reason the arena in WoW hasn't been balanced in ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_True_Izanagi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 1.2 is introducing a new tier of gear so bioware is doing this to catch everyone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 1.2 is introducing a new tier of gear so bioware is doing this to catch everyone up. I wonder if it'll be as ridiculously ugly as the other three tiers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 You're right, I phrased that poorly. Why are you using the argument that destruction of all diversity is bad when there's no destruction of all diversity going on? Are people not arguing that after a set amount of time rare items should become available to everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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