1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[devyne]

i could do it but people dont get that other people want to feel special. like i said i dont care about the mounts really or the color crystals but its like the community is now run by working fathers and wives or 12-14 year old kids but i guess thats because these days older teens and college kids are never themselves so their afraid sorta say to play an mmo or something stupid like that. either that or this decade of gamers is bad lol. any for the person that said i could still do it that way it does not make one unique. you dont get get it im not following the croud and saying i do it for fun or others do it for fun im putting out there loud and clear for kids that are afraid to say it SOME PEOPLE RUN RAIDS FOR GEAR AND TO BE "More unique" THEN OTHERS. plain and simple. if casuals truly dont care about what hardcores have then why would they care if they cant get one or two mounts because they require time and effort. also for pvp its very simple they should come up with some sort of pvp system later on that basiclly ranks you according to gear or ranked wz level when that comes out ooor valor. so people who just hit 50 and are valor 10 wont be thrown in with battlemasters, and casual gamers will stop moaning. Edited February 25, 2012 by Meluna
language

[Solomace]

i could do it but people dont get that other people want to feel special. like i said i dont care about the mounts really or the color crystals but its like the community is now run by working fathers and wives or 12-14 year old kids but i guess thats because these days older teens and college kids are never themselves so their afraid sorta say to play an mmo or something stupid like that. either that or this decade of gamers is bad lol. any for the person that said i could still do it that way it does not make one unique. you dont get get it im not following the croud and saying i do it for fun or others do it for fun im putting out there loud and clear for kids that are afraid to say it SOME PEOPLE RUN RAIDS FOR GEAR AND TO BE "More unique" THEN OTHERS. plain and simple. if casuals truly dont care about what hardcores have then why would they care if they cant get one or two mounts because they require time and effort. also for pvp its very simple they should come up with some sort of pvp system later on that basiclly ranks you according to gear or ranked wz level when that comes out ooor valor. so people who just hit 50 and are valor 10 wont be thrown in with battlemasters, and casual gamers will stop moaning.

 

Holey wall of text batman...

 

Sorry couldn't read it.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Meluna

[devyne]

So because a game that has been out for 8 years and is basically still the same format as it was in 2004, is proof that casuals have basically ruined the game? Could it just be that people are getting tired of the WoW universe?

 

I could argue that WoW became as popular is it did because it was made for "casuals".

 

No death penalties, corpse runs and a lighter vibe to the whole MMo experience.

 

10 mil is not my idea of a dying game.

 

Still not buying this argument.

 

How many people in WoW still get to see end level high raiding content? Isn't that the one thing the devs say that it's still only 1% of it's player base?

 

As I have said before, an MMo needs all types of players, however I think you will find it's the hardcore players that need the "casuals" around to keep said game going or you can kiss the game goodbye. The same cannot be said the other way round.

 

 

yup thats exactly it. firstly i guarentee you 1+ million of wows subscribers are gold farmers and another 5+ million are standing in there captial citys doing nothing at all. its not a dying universe either just go to any raid guild and count the amount of raiders you refresh monthly in vanilla/tbc youd see maybe 1 person quit a month now its on a weekly basis sorta like with SWTOR because their handing out gear like blues in earlier wow. lets not ******** and lets not be crying loosers if your a casual and play the game for fun then why do you care that the other person kills you in pvp. because he invested the time? and if you make that rediculous argument its the same as people who think they should get a new job and immdieatly get paid asmuch as everyone else. also dont make the whole irl vs game argument because you know what people try when there in games even casuals do dont ******** me and say when your in a warzone your not trying to win its the same idea.

[Solomace]

yup thats exactly it. firstly i guarentee you 1+ million of wows subscribers are gold farmers and another 5+ million are standing in there captial citys doing nothing at all. its not a dying universe either just go to any raid guild and count the amount of raiders you refresh monthly in vanilla/tbc youd see maybe 1 person quit a month now its on a weekly basis sorta like with SWTOR because their handing out gear like blues in earlier wow. lets not ******** and lets not be crying loosers if your a casual and play the game for fun then why do you care that the other person kills you in pvp. because he invested the time? and if you make that rediculous argument its the same as people who think they should get a new job and immdieatly get paid asmuch as everyone else. also dont make the whole irl vs game argument because you know what people try when there in games even casuals do dont ******** me and say when your in a warzone your not trying to win its the same idea.

 

Please m8, punctuation.

 

Still cannot read.

[JediElf]

I think vanilla wow just before BC came out had it about right. Casuals could still play and have fun and pvp and run ZG AQ and prob Ony and MC, but maybe not BWL and Naxx. You had to be pretty hardcore to experience that. I see this as necessary. Even though I spent a lot of time playing WoW I never got passed MC/AQ/ZG and I never cared. I looked at the T2 T3 or HWL geared guys in wonder and it made the game seem very big and limitless in scope to me. SWTOR the end is clearly visible and easy to reach.

 

MMO developers learned a long time ago that spending money, time, and art assets on something that only 2% of the population would see, was a big waist of resources.

 

In a way I feel that we are all better off, because of that realization.

Edited February 25, 2012 by JediElf

[Thaed]

MMO developers learned a long time ago that spending money, time, and art assets on something that only 2% of the population would see, was a big waist of resources.

 

In a way I feel that we are all better off, because of that realization.

 

Then developers realised they could make hardmodes for a fraction of the cost and included cool, unique rewards for those.

 

Then Bioware handed out those cool, unique rewards for easy to obtain credits. For no apparent reason.

[lilbuddhaman]

How many people in WoW still get to see end level high raiding content? Isn't that the one thing the devs say that it's still only 1% of it's player base?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2656-Dragon-Soul-Difficulty-Changes-Impact-Blue-Tweets-Comics-MMO-Report

 

sample size ~5.6 million, 400k cleared

 

400k / 5.6 mil = 7.1 % of population have cleared Dragon Soul (the last tier of raiding in Cata) on Normal or Heroic. This does not include LFR players who are also experiencing end game content. Basically everyone who *wants* to go and see the end game, can. There is no progression for it, no social aspects, just click "looking for raid", and wait to be teleported to the instance.

[Solomace]

So anyway,

 

Where's my purple ls please.

 

It should have been available to everyone on both factions and from a low to mid level.

 

Keep the high level ones for raids and ops with major stats on, but produce the low/mid level ones with even a 0 stat on it.

 

I just want the colour because as I have mentioned before in other posts - Aesthetics are a huge part of avatar identification.

 

Go go Mace...

[Solomace]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2656-Dragon-Soul-Difficulty-Changes-Impact-Blue-Tweets-Comics-MMO-Report

 

sample size ~5.6 million, 400k cleared

 

400k / 5.6 mil = 7.1 % of population have cleared Dragon Soul (the last tier of raiding in Cata) on Normal or Heroic. This does not include LFR players who are also experiencing end game content. Basically everyone who *wants* to go and see the end game, can. There is no progression for it, no social aspects, just click "looking for raid", and wait to be teleported to the instance.

 

Hmm okay. Not sure how these figures bolster the argument though? 1%/ 7.1% still are really really small numbers.

 

Even 20% would be small.

[Crazylor]

Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come.

 

Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something.

 

See what we get:

- Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor.

- Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor

- PvP and daily speeders for 1M+ from vendor

- VIP speeder from vendor

- all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved.

 

What the heck?!

 

My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it.

Now everyone will get it for 25k

 

I took part in Ops god-knows how many times and still don't have cyan color crystal, and each time I see player with PvE saber using it I see someone who achieved something I thrive for (ps. Screw the rakata black-core saber, it's a joke) - now you plan to give it away for some spare cash I earn by selling one high-grade item on GTN.

 

I won't even say anything about introducing more black-core sabers, especially for lvl50 players which is A HUGE IMMERSION BREAKER. Now all the ppl who care nothing about lore will run with this joke in Star Wars looking like a training saber being absolutely sure it makes them "l33t" and "special" cause they preordered (ps. it's not about being jelaous - I got preorder, I got rakata saber, it doesn't change anything) or bought stuff for 25k at vendor

 

Ps. Before someone pop-up telling that it won't hit the live servers - give me a quote. Otherwise it's just random opinion.

 

REMARKS:

- It's not about "feeling special" - it's about having an objective in game. And keeping things people worked for worthwhile. And having the point in keeping subscription instead of just getting all the stuff from vendor in moment one hits lvl50.

- Patch 1.1.5 won't make your crafting useful. 1.2 will but we aren't talking about that patch. Also: The artificers get screwed most of all by 1.1.5 cause we won't need you anymore after 1.2 - all the crystals majority of people thrive for will be handled to us from vendors already.

- I'm a casual player, not "hardcore raider" as majority of people falsely assume here. And as casual I ask for keeping achievement items as an achievements instead of give-away stuff

 

I like having diversity, +1 for having different colors straight out at 50.

[darthtoph]

Purple is the new blue, just saying. Think I'm gonna grab myself a plain blue crystal since no one will be using it no more.

[JediElf]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2656-Dragon-Soul-Difficulty-Changes-Impact-Blue-Tweets-Comics-MMO-Report

 

sample size ~5.6 million, 400k cleared

 

400k / 5.6 mil = 7.1 % of population have cleared Dragon Soul (the last tier of raiding in Cata) on Normal or Heroic. This does not include LFR players who are also experiencing end game content. Basically everyone who *wants* to go and see the end game, can. There is no progression for it, no social aspects, just click "looking for raid", and wait to be teleported to the instance.

 

LFD and LFR were created out of a need for people to experience the whole game. Their was no point in spending hundreds of man hours just to please a tiny fraction of the population. Exclusionary attitudes are a part of human nature, people will find ways to make sure that other folks don't experience things, so that they are 'the only ones'...and it was to a breaking point in WOW.

 

People were sick of grinding mats for the top dog guilds, they were sick of having nothing to do at end game, sick of having to do favors and 'play nice' with big guilds in order to progress.

 

Other gamers woke up and refused to fund the raiders fun, while they themselves got 50% of a game, they wanted something to do for their 15 bucks a month.

 

Developers finally realized that it's better to give the whole game to their customers, and just create difficulty curves so that people can play at any level that they choose to.

 

Their are 'hardcore' games out there, and Ever Quest is still alive and well. Take this game for what it is, a fun ride through a fantastic story, with challenges and excitement all woven into the Star Wars universe.

 

Well...that's my two copper on the matter.

[Lethality]

LFD and LFR were created out of a need for people to experience the whole game. Their was no point in spending hundreds of man hours just to please a tiny fraction of the population. Exclusionary attitudes are a part of human nature, people will find ways to make sure that other folks don't experience things, so that they are 'the only ones'...and it was to a breaking point in WOW.

 

People were sick of grinding mats for the top dog guilds, they were sick of having nothing to do at end game, sick of having to do favors and 'play nice' with big guilds in order to progress.

 

Other gamers woke up and refused to fund the raiders fun, while they themselves got 50% of a game, they wanted something to do for their 15 bucks a month.

 

Developers finally realized that it's better to give the whole game to their customers, and just create difficulty curves so that people can play at any level that they choose to.

 

Their are 'hardcore' games out there, and Ever Quest is still alive and well. Take this game for what it is, a fun ride through a fantastic story, with challenges and excitement all woven into the Star Wars universe.

 

Well...that's my two copper on the matter.

 

It doesn't make sense to give the whole game to everyone... I think Blizzard realizes that. In a progression-based game, there has to be things that people can achieve for putting in extra effort and becoming more skilled.

 

End-game raids are tough because they are the best of the best content and best of the best rewards. But they also happen to be where the big story moments are... or at least the climax of them.

 

I think there still needs to be things out of reach unless you put in extra effort. Otherwise there's no reward for progression, only participation... and I can tell you as the recipient of a "participation award" on my youth bowling team years ago, it just didn't have the same feel as "winning".

[Korghal]

This is my main issue with almost EVERY mmo nowadays, it takes to little time to get yourself geared. The game is "over" way too quickly.

[Walkiry]

It was a mistake to make crystals have stats to begin with, and an even worse mistake was to make some of them very rare and gated behind large Ops/PvP/etc.

 

There is room for very rare stuff for the different playstyles that is not available to everyone. But those items shouldn't be key cosmetic elemets, as the colour of the lightsaber IS.

 

City of Heroes went through the same thing with their craftable costume parts. A whole category of them, Wings, was gated behind somewhat rare drops that were, at the time, quite expensive to acquire by trade (the Marketeers were hoarding recipes to jack up the prices, quite naturally as it was desirable and not very abundant to begin with). The devs finally got a clue and made them drop a LOT more often AND introduced very rare gear drops - purple crafting recipes - which satisfied the hardcore players and the Marketeers.

 

Of course, there were many flames exchanged while these changes happened.

 

The OP is absolutely right in demanding something to strive for in his particularly favoured play style, something that is useful and desirable. I just don't think different coloured crystals should be it.

 

Which of course sucks if you already went through all the effort of acquiring them already.

[daMarek]

-Hey thats a really cool looking sparkly twinkly saber you got there. How did you get it?

 

I crafted it

 

-How did you craft it?

 

Like normal, you know, send your companions on missions and stuff

 

-Oh so you send your companions on missions to stack up on rare crit mats then travel several worlds to get the rest of ingredients to perform the secret steps of the dark ritual to spawn the master of worldkilling, defeat him and take his chipped tooth and medidate at an altar with 8 other people and hope to be the chosen one to be blessed with the knowledge of the cool looking sparkly twinkly saber?

 

Nah u crazy? Who would wanna do that? Just send your companions on mission and sell the mats. They go like hot bagels for the default price on GTN. In about two days when you have enough credits go to the vendor across the hall here. He has piles of sparkly twinkly sabers. Cool speeders too.

 

-Sounds kinda coo-... that actually sounds kinda f***** up.

 

U mad?

 

-YA I MAD!

 

Yeah i quoted myself

[JediElf]

I think there still needs to be things out of reach unless you put in extra effort. Otherwise there's no reward for progression, only participation... and I can tell you as the recipient of a "participation award" on my youth bowling team years ago, it just didn't have the same feel as "winning".

 

I guess I'm a little older then hehe. We didn't have any rewards for participating, we had just winners and losers. I didn't mind it. However I really don't think you can apply that to a game that you pay money for.

 

Think about it this way, would you pay for Skyrim if only 5 people could see the end of the story, that's it, full stop, you paid sixty bucks for a game you can't completely play.

 

Yes I understand that there needs to be some things that can be out of reach, but the reality ofi it is that so many 'hard cores' what everything to be out of reach tot he average player. They want it all to themselves and just leave the average player as a lowly peon who pays for their high level content.

 

MMO devs realized that this was bad for business, players of all levels need important content. They need goals and they need uber things as well. No one is gonna pay 15 bucks a month to farm mats for top gilds anymore, those days are long gone, people wont put up with it.

 

People play games (and make no mistake this is a game) to relax and have fun, and in that respect, we should all be able to have some fun in a game we pay a subscription to.

Edited February 26, 2012 by JediElf

[Vecke]

They're not catering to some lower life form here. They're doing exactly what they've always done. They're giving something to work for and a sense of accomplishment. Since this game is geared toward a more casual crowd, they're giving them that sense of accomplishment.

 

For a lot of players (myself included) paying over a million credits for each one of those items is a steep price.

 

To me, giving good rewards to a great minority of the players and leaving the majority of players out is just bad game design.

 

That's predicated on the premise that people who previously attained this equipment are in the minority. That's an assumption based on what I'm seeing on these forums and in-game. If I'm wrong there, then obviously my point is stupid.

[daMarek]

I guess I'm a little older then hehe. We didn't have any rewards for participating, we had just winners and the rest of us. I didn't mind it. However I really don't think you can apply that to a game that you pay money for.

 

Think about it this way, would you pay for Skyrim if only 5 people could see the end of the story, that's it, full stop, you paid sixty bucks for a game you can't completely play.

 

Yes I understand that there needs to be some things that can be out of reach, but the reality ofi it is that so many 'hard cores' what everything to be out of reach tot he average player. They want it all to themselves and just leave the average player as a lowly peon who pays for their high level content.

 

MMO devs realized that this was bad for business, players of all levels need important content. They need goals and they need uber things as well. No one is gonna pay 15 bucks a month to farm mats for top gilds anymore, those days are long gone, people wont put up with it.

 

People play games (and make no mistake this is a game) to relax and have fun, and in that respect, we should all be able to have some fun in a game we pay a subscription to.

 

I payed 60 bucks for skyrim and never saw the end. I got bored of it halfway through (swtor might or might not have something to do with it). Am I pissed I payed 60 bucks and only got 30 bucks worth out of it? no. I could have finished it if I wanted to but jsut didn't bother.

 

Anyone CAN see all the content if they decide they want to invest the time and effort, which may include joining a group of likeminded people. Some chose to do so, some don't.

 

You can go to see a movie, buy the dvd, bluray, directors cut and remastered digital 3D edition, or you can just read a review... which makes more business sense?

[NoxiousAlby]

Having no interest to raid, ever, I see no problems with this.

 

Agreed, OP says it not about feeling special but I would challenge that and say it's about feeling unque. And after all isnt unique just another way of saying special.

[barringerlr]

Casual entitlement ruins mmo's. This vendor and the content nerfs are bull ****. Casuals have content to play through, it's called normal mode ops. EV can be cleared in 1.5-2 hours total. And you have a whole week to do it. By putting in less effort, you deserve less rewards. Simple as that.

[NoxiousAlby]

I payed 60 bucks for skyrim and never saw the end. I got bored of it halfway through (swtor might or might not have something to do with it). Am I pissed I payed 60 bucks and only got 30 bucks worth out of it? no. I could have finished it if I wanted to but jsut didn't bother.

 

Anyone CAN see all the content if they decide they want to invest the time and effort, which may include joining a group of likeminded people. Some chose to do so, some don't.

 

You can go to see a movie, buy the dvd, bluray, directors cut and remastered digital 3D edition, or you can just read a review... which makes more business sense?

 

Same clap trap time & time again and as usual you miss the entire point. Players dont raid because it's no longer viable sorce of end game content, rather than you carrying on about equal chance to do it you need to accept the fact that for some players it is out of reach.

 

In fact why have raids at all? why persist with the "holy trinity" system when the majority of players subsidise content that only the minority of players get to enjoy.

 

Rather than worrying about everyone else as wannabe hardcore raiders tend to do focus on your own enjoyment of the game.

[NoxiousAlby]

Casual entitlement ruins mmo's. This vendor and the content nerfs are bull ****. Casuals have content to play through, it's called normal mode ops. EV can be cleared in 1.5-2 hours total. And you have a whole week to do it. By putting in less effort, you deserve less rewards. Simple as that.

 

Attitudes like this ruin communities, players more obsessed with others and less about themselves. Entitled has nothing to do with it, show me 1 single post where players have asked for what BW is intending to offer.

Reactions like yours and others are in fact displying attitudes of entitlement.

[justregularjoe]

Wow... I'm amazed.

 

So seriously folks - you don't care about achieving anything and seeing all the stuff handled to you on a silver plate is fine?!

 

Now I'm even more astonished.

 

 

 

Are you really that astonished ? Seeing the Patch video make me sick - rare lightsaber crystals on a vendor for anyone to get with ZERO work.

 

If I had not already un-subbed, that would have made me.

[daMarek]

Same clap trap time & time again and as usual you miss the entire point. Players dont raid because it's no longer viable sorce of end game content, rather than you carrying on about equal chance to do it you need to accept the fact that for some players it is out of reach.

 

The olympics are out of reach for me. Give me a gold medal for $5 or I will stop running.