What happened to MMO Communities?

[Optimism]

People today are playing an MMO but don't want to play an MMO.

 

To further elaborate, the new wave of MMO is to find a group, raid, pvp all with one single click of a button. You know like how console games are setup and played.

 

People want an xbox live community instead of an mmo community. That's the problem in MMO's right now and that "other" game shifted the genre towards this.

[Akash]

The idea of a community like we had back in the days of EQ1 are not what gamers today will pay for, and those days just aren't coming back.

 

We want things faster now, more easily accessible, and we have options when one environment fails to provide those things.

 

Back in the days of EQ1, you had very few options. You took the good with the bad and made the most of what was available.

 

Now there are many more options if you want to play an MMO, and with that competition has come an environment where developers have to meet customer demands or the customer goes elsewhere.

 

The only way to regain any sense of community is to provide incentive for cooperation.

 

Oddly, many of the things that are attacked as destroying communities in some games have helped build great communities in others. It's a mystery, in some ways. I hear folks talk about cross-server LFG destroying communities, yet in my experience its brought people together. I hear folks talk about performance meters creating elitism, yet in my experience its fostered mentoring and friendly competition.

 

It might be that game-wide cooperation in order to achieve common goals is perhaps a key missing ingredient in SWTOR that is keeping it from realizing that "community feel". I'm not sure.

 

I know something is missing.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Akash

[Frigidman]

Server forums absolutely help with a community. Guilds, events, PVP organization and planning and just getting to know people and being able to connect when you can't game. You sound like you enjoy the single player MMO format that BW has created.

 

Keep in mind that forum users make up an extremely tiny percentage of the overall player base (million+ players, maybe 5k forum posters?). A tiny percentage that is strung out across hundreds of servers and thousands of guilds. Any sort of community that exists on the forum, is clique at best.

 

It is far more important to generate community inside the game. "Most" players never bother with the forums. I can say that with certainty, as if we had even half of the million+ users here, these forums would be impossible (and the server would choke ha).

 

Just saying. Don't put so much emphasis on something a handful of players bother with.

[XenonParsec]

Most of the so called "old timers" themselves really don't want the old-school mmo community. You guys aren't students in your late teens/early 20's anymore, with all the time to devote to building any of that. Some of you have families, work and social obligations. There just isn't the time to dump into video games anymore, and why should you, video games are worthless. They don't pay bills, or provide raises or promotions.

 

Most of the younger kids would likely form communities given the tools in-game, since they're adept at it irl via social networking tools, but developers now are on a mad race to compete with WoW, in the desperate hope they can approach some of that ridiculous recurring revenue. Just look at this game, millions spent on VO for a superb single player experience, but no LFG tools. No guild tools. No server specific forums. Baby's first MMO-style chat and friend options. You can't even friend a person if they're offline.

 

The tools needed to build communities are placed under game features that need to be rushed out the door yesterday, so Company XYZ's stock can get a bump from box sales and a quarter of monthly subs.

 

So what happened to MMO communities? Progress.

[Jeffor]

Keep in mind that forum users make up an extremely tiny percentage of the overall player base (million+ players, maybe 5k forum posters?). A tiny percentage that is strung out across hundreds of servers and thousands of guilds. Any sort of community that exists on the forum, is clique at best.

 

It is far more important to generate community inside the game. "Most" players never bother with the forums. I can say that with certainty, as if we had even half of the million+ users here, these forums would be impossible (and the server would choke ha).

 

Just saying. Don't put so much emphasis on something a handful of players bother with.

 

If so few people use them then why did BW site an inability to keep up moderation on them as a reason for not having them? You are just making excuses for them. What about the in-game examples? They haven't done much there either. And I am not talking about forum cliques. I'm talking about an official place to recruit for PAs, organize PVP or plan other events. Remember that guild leaders and PVP leaders would be the type to use the forums (at least in other games I've played) and that can affect a load of people that don't come to the forums. Also, just because a person doesn't post doesn't mean that they don't come here for information.

[Frigidman]

If so few people use them then why did BW site an inability to keep up moderation on them as a reason for not having them?

 

Because they have their hands full of the hate posts and whiners that spew out countless drivel in General and PvP forums. Five thousand complainers can make a crap ton of work to moderate. And face it, the forums are mostly used to complain on, not hold civil 'community discussions'. Server forums (on its predecessor), were nothing but a festering ground of name calling and elitist fights between a few players on each server.

 

Moderating that, in addition to the filth everywhere else on the forums. Is something Bioware just doesn't want to bother with good reason.

 

You want quality community. Forums are not where that occurs.

[ConsularZ]

I agree to society getting worse respect wise. It isn't only in games. It is everywhere.

 

When I played Final fantasy online, and then wow, I remember being helpful and getting help. By the time I quit wow I couldn't even ask a question without rudeness. ANY question. If i saw a question, and knew the answer, I would help the person.

 

I have found more friendly people here. If I see you around I will buff you, heal you, or answer a question.

[TheDevilHimself]

I also think that it has something to do with the average gamer getting older. I certainly have become less patient over the years.

Since the vast majority of folks online are complete idiots (and yes, that includes you), I don't even bother trying to socialise.

[Uvirith]

The good, friendly helpful oldschool-community play lord of the rings online or Warhammer Online. The douchebags are always playing the current mmo/onlinegame, and thats ToR at the moment.

Wait for Diablo3, that game will draw all the morons like a lightbulb draws the mosquito.

[Metaspark]

I'm always open to meeting new people, playing together, and all that stuff, but my biggest obstacle is myself. I'm pretty socially awkward, in that I have trouble initiating anything. I find it much easier to be the second person to say 'hi'

 

 

even then I'm a pretty quiet person, and I'm sure I've rubbed off as a sort of rude guy to quite a few people, but I'm not trying to be. for instance, the other day I was complimented by someone in a game of Huttball that I was the reason we won the previous warzone, and it took me the entire match just to think of a response

 

 

tl;dr: if you ever come across me on Sanctum of the Exalted (Ma'rii) don't think I'm ignoring you or anything. I'm just an awkward person

[RabidPopcorn]

(In WoW) In response to a question my lv85 asked about the LFR tool, I received the following reply (or at least something to that extent):

"****, wow, buy your account on ebay much, noob."

[Dawgtide]

I know that I'm probably going to get a lot of "you old fogie" hate for this, but it's a question I can not stop asking myself lately. I've played MMO's for just about 11 years now. Started off with Everquest and have adventured my way through multiple others. The one thing that really drew me in to the genre was it's sense of community and companionship. I thought it was awesome that your character lived in a world with thousands of others.

 

Not only were the vast majority of those people helpful; they were friendly to boot! People actually went out of their way to help another player that they didn't know from a hole in the wall. It was astounding.

 

Now, however, I feel like every game that comes out gets worse and worse in regards to it's community. People live to grief, harass, and flame the **** out of each other. The worst part is that it's become accepted as the norm. No one says anything because they've given up trying to fix it.

 

So, is it just me? Is anyone else as disappointed as I am?

 

OP, haven't read the whole post, but did you ever try LOTRO? I found that to be a great community. The problem with it was the epeen mentality of PVP areas. The PVE was a great community that I found.

[xNyos]

There was a time that MMO's were for "Nerds". MMO's were much tougher and more complex and had an older player base. This was the golden age of MMO's when the players were mature. Vanilla WoW started with this player base but as Blizzard dumbed down the game more and more, it became more accessible to a larger group of people. Players who normally played shooters where the only communication is normally flaming your opponent now were playing MMO's since they were starting to become cool.

 

The biggest blow to the MMO community though is the large number of children (-18) that are now playing the game. The vast majority are selfish, immature, and rude.

 

I really hope an MMO company makes a more complex game aimed for adults. I think the MMO community will thrive again without selfish children running around everywhere.

[ConspicuousTree]

Had someone buff me and /smile at me.

 

I returned the favour and almost felt guilty for not asking if they wanted to group.

 

The community is in the people. If there's a problem with the MMO community, it'll be the people playing them. And I suspect communities formed when the sub numbers were in the thousands instead of the millions.

[Baldness]

I know that there are plenty of exceptions to the generalization, (and I appreciate every single one) but it's the mentality of it that gets to me. For altruism, and the desire to work together to accomplish something, to be rare is appalling.

 

It isn't about being "nice" it is about having a stable and level playing field with not so many options for people to get equivalent gear/progression by doing solo play.

 

Communities need baddies as well as goodies.

[BitterPill]

Nothing even come close to the Old EQ and DAoC communities.

[jcwatchdog]

iknorite. people are constantly saying things like:

 

Despite having so many players, WoW never really had fanboi issues... and tbh, I never really expected to encounter such huge fanboi resistance in a game until I played SWTOR.

 

Are you serious? Wow never had any fanboi issues? Not sure what world you're living on.

[LordStark]

You just have to find the guild forums that enjoy outsiders visiting for this sort of community. These sorts of forums here are fail for community building. And I'm still so disappointed that we don't have actual server forums. I don't think these guys understand how desperately we want/need them.

 

I soooo agree on this with you...

BW is not doing anything from there side to Build a good Community.

[Soultranna]

It's all about respect, really.

 

Used to be, respect was fairly easy to get. You meet people, face to face, and how you presented yourself, how you acted, was what people based their ideas of you off of.

 

Now, it's all online, and you can present any image of yourself you want. So the image, the behavior, no longer drives the respect. Instead it's all about 'prowess', this e-peen behavior, of having a better PvP rating, or better gear, or any of a hundred thousand variables that separate the accomplished from the also-rans.

 

And in so doing, we FORGET that on the other side of the keyboard, there is another human being.

 

Respect the human being. All the other crap doesn't matter.

[SaibotLiu]

Yes in game communities have been better in the past, but I think a lot of that was how new and exciting the genre was at the time. When I first played SWG I couldnt wait to log in just to play with other people. I was an extremely sociable player, though that was not always for the good. I suppose I was a bit of a character of sorts, I'd start arguments and declare "war" on certain guilds, stir the pot, usual drama.

 

But looking back on it none of it was venom laced hatred you see today, and generally it was in good fun and after some PVP smack talk for 30 minutes most times you could still have a decent conversation with the person on the other end. This encouraged commradarie and a fraternity of sorts, not so unlike the NFL. Competitive but still respectful enough to not wish anything bad on the other guy. You may have wanted to kill him in game, but still realized that you needed those people.

 

This anti-hero element is definitely missing from the games today, even the hero element, everyones pretty much a snob who has better things to do then to talk or interact with you, including myself. Because people have lost the desire to form any kind of connection with other players, so you dont see them display strong character traits and thinking about what they say. Wether its making someone laugh or starting a fight, its still interaction and thats what these games are supposed to be about.

 

Im not sure how, if ever, this is supposed to change. I think its far too late to encourage any kind of community spirit in MMO's regardless of how the mechanics may encourage it.

[Inat_mivea]

this community is so friggin weird. . . .

 

I'm 35 - I know, old, right? But not that old - 40 is the new 22 , right?

 

Here's what I find to be weird:

 

Getting berated by fellow faction members in WZs

Getting berated in general chat if you ask a question

Not really knowing any opposing faction guids

 

^^ That is the big one! I love having an "enemy" guild and more specifically, a nemesis player - I can't even name an Empire guild - let alone a player!

 

I dunno, maybe perhaps given the fact the SWG community was so small, it allowed a more intimate interaction but here, it's just friggin odd.

 

As others alluded to - it's an age thing. I am an IT manager who recently got the pleasure of taking over the Help Desk / Desktop groups where the staff is relatively young (24-28). These kids are weird - like "aspergers weird"

[MMornard]

You know...

 

Bioware should just create a new server type that is for the GIVE ME NOW type players. Set it to give everyone everything on character creation. Level 50 in an hour, and quick travel to every spot on a 1 second cooldown. Nothing is discovered, Nothing is worked for, Nothing is difficult or time consuming beyond 5 seconds.

 

Then all those kinds of people can go to those servers and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy an MMORPG

 

Just make it cost real money. They'll be rich.

[MMornard]

Hmm.

 

Once upon a time the Internet was IP addresses. If you wanted to find a site, you had to know the IP address. Yes, this is pre-1993. The Web changed a lot.

 

Back then, everybody online knew who you were, and if you were a knob, you got cut off. Behavior was self correcting.

 

And now, well, it's not that way.

 

Plus... I'm older. I'm 56, married, about to get my second master's degree (From an Episcopal seminary.) I'd love my guild to be great, as good as the one good guild I encountered in 5 years on WoW... but I don't have the time to devote to it.

 

Sad, I am.

[RudyRoo]

Ive enjoyed reading alot of the responses in this thread ,it lets me know there are still nice,mature players out there. I feel the same way as the OP..i wish they would put some kind of age restriction on mmos or maybe some company make an old style mmo(the ones that were actually challenging...UO EQ) with updated graphics.I know that wont happen tho bc everything has become about the bottom line for developers and quick purple items for most of the players. i have a question: Do people still play video games for fun or has it all become about epeens?? bc thats what it seems like to me...makes me sad.

[Quantum]

I know that I'm probably going to get a lot of "you old fogie" hate for this, but it's a question I can not stop asking myself lately. I've played MMO's for just about 11 years now. Started off with Everquest and have adventured my way through multiple others. The one thing that really drew me in to the genre was it's sense of community and companionship. I thought it was awesome that your character lived in a world with thousands of others.

 

Not only were the vast majority of those people helpful; they were friendly to boot! People actually went out of their way to help another player that they didn't know from a hole in the wall. It was astounding.

 

Now, however, I feel like every game that comes out gets worse and worse in regards to it's community. People live to grief, harass, and flame the **** out of each other. The worst part is that it's become accepted as the norm. No one says anything because they've given up trying to fix it.

 

So, is it just me? Is anyone else as disappointed as I am?

 

 

A couple of things have happened to change this, and yea I mourn it's loss at times too...

 

But here are my theories on what has happened.

 

1. Enter the Snowflake Generation
   
2. Development of "Clone" games
   
3. The ingrained desire to "Keep up with the Jones' "
   

 

Enter the Snowflake Generation

 

Let me start off with this, I expect and ask for nothing in the way of handouts from anyone, either in real life or in game. I'm also of the age to be considered part of this generation of young adults (35), so don't think I'm an old fart sitting around complaining about kids. I also work in a business dominated with 20 somethings, and they terrify me. These kids are being overly pampered, when I was 16 I worked 40+ hours a week usually and went to school and never once complained. Through my mid-20's a typical work week was 80 hours. I never once asked for or expected anything, I knew the value of what I was doing and honestly in my current employment I've completely confused some of my bosses (unfortunately also 20 somethings) as I make it a point to delve further into my job and learn more about it. None of my co-workers take any interest in broadening their horizons inside the company nor care, they expect everything to just "happen".

 

The same is happening in the MMO market, the average age of a MMO player is about 33 this means a large portion, of the current, and the bulk of the future generations of MMO players will be of the "Snowflake Generation". Expecting maximum gratification for the minimal effort. The Development studios know this, and are adjusting accordingly.

 

It also means there are less and less reasons for players to band together and form a tight knit community as everything you need to play comes closer and closer to being handed to you. Back in the late 90's playing Ultima Online one of the best ways to get skill trained was by visiting "The Bone Wall" in one of the dungeons. This worked as long as the players there worked together. Today you can easily conquer most content in the game solo if you apply the right template to a character. Crafting was pretty much replaced with easily acquired items, and skills were even put into place to allow crafters (which almost everyone now has one) to custom create equipment the surpasses all but the very best of Artifact quality loot drops, rendering player to player interaction almost non-necessary.

 

This leads to point 2.

 

Development of Clone Games

 

With Mechanics and concepts being borrowed from older games to be included in newer one's the lack of necessity for player to player interaction is continually suffering. Games are being built with diminished potential for community. How many games can you name with dynamic or semi-dynamic environments? You know where you can interact with almost every door, chair, plant, tree or item in the game? How many games do you see built with the potential for real role play? I'm not talking about talking "In Character" that's not role play, but having the openness to not only speak but act in a manner befitting the character you envision with little limits.

 

Those things describe a Sandbox, a true Sandbox game. Those aren't being made or when they are they aren't successful because they keep trying to borrow from the currently more popular Theme park games. The two are different beasts, and do not mesh very well, mainly through design of various necessary mechanics.

 

Which leads to point 3

 

The ingrained desire to "Keep up with the Jones'

 

The Developers here may have a desire to keep us happy because if SWTOR is a huge success it's another notch on their Resume, and a boost to their marketability in the future, as well as job security. But do you really think the top people at EA, Warner Brothers (owners of Turbine), Sony or Vivendi (owners of Activision thus Blizzard) really care about us the subscribers? We're numbers on a profit report, nothing more. They want to make money and thus they want the developers to do the grunt work to try and ensure we're happy.

 

To do so developers have to make choices, not all of them are choices they wish to make, and at times their vision of what a game will be and what the end product is can be very different. Often developers are pressured to include aspects that are outside their vision because they are popular in other titles. They wind up in an endless hunt to "Keep up with the Jones' " much like us as players do the same...

 

See as players we all want to be competitive to some respect, it's human nature. If player A has gear that gives (X) boost to stats, we want one that gives as good or better. If (Y) title has a system we enjoy in that game we want it included in (Z) title in the future for us to enjoy.

 

Know what, we're not experts on Game Development, we play games, we've probably played many games. But how many of you, the players have ever been listed specifically, not as a thanks for Testing, on the Credits for a game title?

 

All this leads back to step 1. Our desire for competitiveness, and lack of insight into the limitations of a specific games Engine all suffer even greater damage due to so many people having this expectation for instant gratification.