Sorcs and Sages need 2 Stances so they cannot Heal and DPS at the same time.

[silentsurfer]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

It's funny how many people will doubt you, but after seeing these numbers on the board, I know it's just a matter of time and gearing before it's more common, and even then people will dispute that it happens.

 

/Agree

[Acyu]

On respawn - bubble up. By the time you get to the action, you're ready for double bubble time.

 

 

 

That would almost guarantee you to NOT benefit from double bubble except in voidstar.

 

 

All this double bubble thing is based on assumptions, except for your alderaan example, which is applicable to any class positioning and posturing themselves in preparation for a visible, incoming fight. A sorcerer pre-casting a bubble is just a class using their mechanic to prepare for an incoming fight. It's the same as stealth remaining stealth and getting in position, or a melee LoSing using the node to make sure a range class doesn't jump them from range or a melee doesn't open on them with a leap.

 

Double bubble is only useful in situations where you're guaranteed to be damaged as soon as you enter combat, or where damage is forseeable in the future.

 

That is simply not the case in most situations, and is more prevalent in 1v1 fights or duels.

 

Most sorcerers are simply not "attacked" as soon as they respawn and join a fight, so double bubble is completely negated because it's not used.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Acyu

[Sjofel]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

I agree actually even tho i have a Sorc, but this should apply to all classes that is able to heal.

[EternalFinality]

That would almost guarantee you to NOT benefit from double bubble except in voidstar.

 

 

All this double bubble thing is based on assumptions, except for your alderaan example, which is applicable to any class positioning and posturing themselves in preparation for a visible, incoming fight. A sorcerer pre-casting a bubble is just a class using their mechanic to prepare for an incoming fight. It's the same as stealth remaining stealth and getting in position, or a melee LoSing using the node to make sure a range class doesn't jump them from range or a melee doesn't open on them with a leap.

 

Double bubble is only useful in situations where you're guaranteed to be damaged as soon as you enter combat, or where damage is forseeable in the future.

 

That is simply not the case in most situations, and is more prevalent in 1v1 fights or duels.

 

Most sorcerers are simply not "attacked" as soon as they respawn and join a fight, so double bubble is completely negated because it's not used.

 

Uh, what. In Huttball, bubble as you're leaving the spawn. You will find a fight within 10 seconds usually.

 

On Alderaan, bubble when you land from the speeder. You will find a fight within 10 seconds usually.

 

Or just use your head and get the timing right. It's not hard for most Sorcs, clearly.

Edited February 24, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Tallymon]

AS DPS spec we have two heals. One takes 1.5s and heals for 1100-1500, the other one takes 3 seconds and heals for 2400-2800. Hardly anything to complain about.

[Scoobings]

I don't know about you guys but I'd tear up sorcs in a matter of seconds if they didn't have shield.

 

If they were to impliment stances they'd need to have shield still in dps mode.

[pinkfreudHC]

AS DPS spec we have two heals. One takes 1.5s and heals for 1100-1500, the other one takes 3 seconds and heals for 2400-2800. Hardly anything to complain about.

 

Well, technically the bubble is a heal too.

 

But if we do this then I say that all classes that can heal or DPS should fall under this restriction.

 

And no more tanky-DPS either!

 

Or you simply L2P.

[Xecutive]

You know, I think the sage/sorcs are powerful and all but it's not that bad. They don't need a stance to dance with, although if done right it could be pretty cool. (i loved my shadowpriest)

 

But all in all I think what gets me the most is how much power/utility you get from these hybrid specs. It's a little tipped but not zOMG ***!!111 Maybe just move some of the really good talents up a tier or two forcing the person to go deeper into one tree therefore they can't get the best of both worlds.

 

I don't know of any other class that can invest so little into a talent tree yet synergize so well.

 

 

Just my 2 cred...

[RobNightfall]

I can get behind this for healing stance for Sorcs, and that stance be required to use the bubble, and Force Speed be forbidden in that stance.

 

So essentially you want to tank a class that has no capacity to withstand damage except a force power and take it away from them while at the same time demanding they stand still? Yeah that makes sense

[RobNightfall]

I don't know about you guys but I'd tear up sorcs in a matter of seconds if they didn't have shield.

 

If they were to impliment stances they'd need to have shield still in dps mode.

 

As a tank shadow I tear up sorcerers now and I'm not even in full BM. Use your interrupts and learn to play.

[savionen]

AS DPS spec we have two heals. One takes 1.5s and heals for 1100-1500, the other one takes 3 seconds and heals for 2400-2800. Hardly anything to complain about.

 

Still a lot better than a class that... has no heals at all.

 

Also Sorcs have 500 Force, taking up 10.5% of your resources to heal for 2400-2800 is actually pretty damn good compared to Operative and Mercenary heals. Takes like 25% of a Mercenary's resources to heal for that much.

 

Obviously you're not going to sit at melee range with a Marauder on you and try to spam-heal heals, but it's definitely an advantage to be able to, when you're stuck in combat, or LoS, etc.

Edited February 24, 2012 by savionen

[sahrinity]

Because, if you "allow" them to do it - double bubble is overpowered. Thank you for admitting it.

 

Besides, a Sorc is NEVER situationally aware either. Nope.

Rofl, I think pvp should all be turn based now, blow for blow, no moving, no "cheating" by paying attention and using some ability to your advantage that another class doesn't have. That will solve everything.

[Niddhog]

All of the above is also very true for Sages/Sorcs. It is a myth that they can just last forever and have no energy issues at all. That's bollocks. Most people don't even get the difference between being hit by a Sorc or an Assassin and complain and mix up abilities like pull.

 

On a serious note though, speaking of healing specs. You are limited by your force, period. You really are. Especially in PVP. Yes, you can theoretically lasy forever, but I'd argue that your healing output when maintaining a constantly high level of force will be same or lower than a Combat Medic or a well played Scoundrel.

 

People just think that those 600 force plus return through lifetap is some magic formula for spamming huge heals endlessly and that's not the case at all. If you want to conserve your force you'll be running a strict rotation, which is not that powerful at all in PVP. If you even want to build up force, because you had to dish out a few emergency heals, you're not an effecient healer at all for the time being.

 

Yes, Sages/Sorcs can dish out more big heals in a row and short duration than the other two classes. But after a good few of them, they're done. They'll have to built up their force again.

 

Basically you might see Sages/Sorcs casting around forever somewhere, but that kind of casting won't save anyone from getting nuked over. Just like the other two classes.

 

The idea is that a sage/sorc can burst far longer than a scoundrel/commando can. With 600 force they can enter burn phases of heavy healing for longer periods, with no crippling penalties afterwards. Whether at 599 or 0 force a sage regens the same rate. Take a scoundrel that low and hes at base 2/second. I think commandos are the same? Yes they have other ways to regen/cooldown to refil, but a sage has abilities as well (free noble sacrifice through procs, etc) on top of 600 pool.

[Arrys]

I'm assuming you're suggesting these stance changes for Operatives, Scoundrels, Troopers, and Mercenaries too, correct?

 

So no healer should be able to dps, and no dps should heal outside of their own stances.

 

Doing dps and healing is not anything unique to Sorcs/Sages.

 

Give me a stance remove Tactical Advantage from the game. Please, Please, Please....

[Mavnas]

Still a lot better than a class that... has no heals at all.

 

Also Sorcs have 500 Force, taking up 10.5% of your resources to heal for 2400-2800 is actually pretty damn good compared to Operative and Mercenary heals. Takes like 25% of a Mercenary's resources to heal for that much.

 

Obviously you're not going to sit at melee range with a Marauder on you and try to spam-heal heals, but it's definitely an advantage to be able to, when you're stuck in combat, or LoS, etc.

 

If you look at it that way yes. 55 force is 7 seconds worth of regen. Op/merc heals don't take that much regen worth. Yes, you have free NS, but if you do that, you have 27 points in Seer and you're not doing anywhere near as much damage.

[Akiva_IC]

There are WAAAY to many anti-sorc/sage people in this thread who have obviously never played a second of the class. No only are the bulk of you crossing assassin/sorc abilities, but the complaints about resource pool are just ridiculous. I have multiple ALTs and the sorc drains just as fast as anyone else does in crunch time. It's all a matter of resource managment and, in reality, sorc/sage doesn't have the magic "get X amount of resources back" button like, say, BH and Trooper.

 

I run a level 50 pure-healing sorc. You wanna complain about 600 force? Do you know how much it costs to USE some of these things? My entire quickslot is 40, 65, 80, etc. The biggest AOEs heals and DPS (force storm and revivvification [which was already nerfed, thank you very much ...]) cost about 100 EACH.

 

I can completely drain this guy in under 30 seconds if I'm in trouble and the only way to get any of that back is wait ... and wait some more. Regen is a consistent 8. 8 out of 600. Do you know how FREAKIN long that takes?

 

Fact of the matter is, people get all whiny whenever they have trouble with a class. If you ask me, the operative infini-stabstabstabstabstab is completle BS, as is the merc tracer missle BS. Truth of the matter is, any halfway decent DPS, with a little effort and concentration, can take down the light-armor casting classes (im not talking about assassin/shadow). "Oh, boo-hoo, bubble and force speed..." Please. Force speed last two seconds. I can't count the number of times I've thrown up the bubble, punched force speed to break LoS only to have some maurader/sentinel or ranged class come at me. What then? "Ooooh, you can outheal the damage.. boo-hoo..." Yeah, maybe. For a little while. Im not goin to be able to go anywhere and I have to pray to GOD that no one else on your team shows up, or I might as well just roll over and wait for the respawn, because the odds of taking down an equally-equipped DPS are pretty much NIL with my grand total of about 5 attack skills. Oh! I know! I have 67 strength! Maybe I can hit you with my lightsa...nope. Dead.

 

Beyond ALL of that though, what every single one of you has failed to realize is that by making the healer punch force speed and flee for his life (seriously? you're complaining about a class that's #1 tactical response is "run like a squirrel?"), you've done as much damage to the team as you would have by killing him outright.

 

Seriously. I hate even saying this, because I know a couple hundred noobs will read it and some of them are bound to be on my server, but if you make the healer flee, its the same as killing him to the rest of the team, because every second he sits hiding behind that box self-healing drains his resources AND means he's not doing what he's there to do - healing his teammates. There have been times where I've ROLLED OVER and let people kill me, because I knew respawn would be quicker than the time it takes to self-heal AND get enough force back to be useful for more than 4 seconds in the next fight.

 

"They can run away!" Good lord, people. For real? A healer who's not healing someone else is useless dead weight. If you made him high-tail it halfway across the map and spend 30 seconds healing himself and another minute to regen force, congratulations. That was better than killing him.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Akiva_IC

[Kalarie]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

so your solution is to complaicate the UI a little bit and ultimately add 1 GCD to their time between casts if it's in the other school?

 

Seriously though, if you see a dps sorc healing it means two things, 1) they are low enough on hp to be worried in which case you need to burn them, and 2) if you apply pressure they will be out of force very soon, in which case you will burn them. So how about you learn to interrupt and learn to use your burn phase at the right time as they are the squishiest class?

 

If you see a healing sorc dpsing, 1) laugh off their dps cause it's low as heck, 2) interrupt their 2 'big' heals. Eventually you will oom them and then you burn them.

 

If a sorc is giving you enough trouble that you are here to complain about them then you are either undergeared or getting outplayed. Time to go research ho to best play your own class.

[fungihoujo]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

You mean like shadow priests?

 

Sure, add in an aoe fear, and make it so all damage done in shadowform heals the sorc and team, restores mana, and the form also adds great damage mitigation- and shields can still be used of course.

 

 

You want s-priests, you should maybe remember all the things spriests have first.

[TheronFett]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

I can get behind this. I agree that stances (@ 100% Force cost like others) would go a long way towards a much needed nerf for the caster classes in this game.

 

I don't complain much. However, I will QQ about Sage/Sorc all day long because they truly are overpowered. I still say that the dev team must've all played weak caster classes in their MMO playing days because they certainly made the cloak wearers too strong in this game.

[RedMix]

You mean like shadow priests?

 

Sure, add in an aoe fear, and make it so all damage done in shadowform heals the sorc and team, restores mana, and the form also adds great damage mitigation- and shields can still be used of course.

 

 

You want s-priests, you should maybe remember all the things spriests have first.

 

 

Different game sir, Stances are in this game and Bioware has already shown that they don't want classes being able to Tank and DPS at the same time (nerfing Shadow/Assassin stance dancing) So why should Sorcs be special and be above that rule when it comes to Healing and DPSing? No other class can take Top Dmg and Top healing in the same WZ, its broken.

[bellok]

Actually I find it that the healer hybrid is quite blanced. Even though they can deal moderate damage, and heal moderate damage, they cannot deal high damage or heal for high amounts. Here is a comparison:

 

a) full spec'd healers usually heal 300k-400k damage.(mostly due to their AOE heals)

 

b) full spec'd Damage dealers usually deal 300k-400k damage.(mostly due to their AOE attacks)

 

c) Hybrids with more healing usually heal 150k-200k, and deal 150k-200k damage.

 

I tend to find this balanced actually. Of course you will find some healing hybrids who deal more than 200k damage, or heal 200k damage but usually when they do so they sacrifice one category for the other. For example if they deal 250k damage, they usually only heal for 100-150k damage total. It's balanced.

[GrandMasterDarth]

Flat out prevent them from casting heals/shield while in DPS stance or make them take 2x as long to cast them or something. these Sorcs doing 500k Dmg and Healing at the same time is just ridiculous.

 

Amen brother!

 

This is something i have been thinking for a while now, why keeps my merc from doing uber damage and healing at the same time....

 

2 things:

 

1 heal = 25% of my resources(3 ammo), and if i go below 8 ammo out of 12, i regenerate slower and slower....

Stances, i get good bonuses from using one or another...

 

 

The funny thing is they nerfed the SHADOW/ASSASSIN hybrid spec for doing too well, but somehow they totally missed sages/sorcerers....

 

So please BIOWARE, nerf the sage/sorc hybrid spec... the dps ones are fine but the fact that they can compete for most dps and most healing during the same warzone is a bit too much....

[bellok]

Amen brother!

 

This is something i have been thinking for a while now, why keeps my merc from doing uber damage and healing at the same time....

 

2 things:

 

1 heal = 25% of my resources(3 ammo), and if i go below 8 ammo out of 12, i regenerate slower and slower....

Stances, i get good bonuses from using one or another...

 

 

The funny thing is they nerfed the SHADOW/ASSASSIN hybrid spec for doing too well, but somehow they totally missed sages/sorcerers....

 

So please BIOWARE, nerf the sage/sorc hybrid spec... the dps ones are fine but the fact that they can compete for most dps and most healing during the same warzone is a bit too much....

 

Pics or the 500k damage on both sides is b.s.

[Lalush]

I want to know this pro sorc who can do 500k damage and 500k healing at the same time.

I know this is not wow but something like shadow priest shoeuld work fine. Remember priest can't heal in shadow form.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Lalush

[bellok]

and one last thing. Aside from the heal rejuvenate for sage(and the sorcs equivalent), there is no way a sage/sorc that is a hybrid healer/telekinetic balance spec can heal and do damage at the same time. It is always one or the other. They don't have the luxury of having the Salvation heal where they heal multiple targets over time like a fully spec'd healer can. Rejuvenate does not heal that much overtime, and I doubt it is the one heal that is going to make or break things and push hybrid healers over the edge with "500k healing and 500k damage at the same time" in any warzone whatsoever.