Valkirus Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Some Screens, why SWTOR is the most Hardware Killer Application, named MMO you ever see. First off all, the first screen proofs, that already on the Login Screen your Hardware goes in stress mode. http://www.swtor-mmorpg.com/img/gpu_temp2.png The second screen shows you that there is enough only to make SWTOR to run as Icon, that the temps goes instant down to the normal. http://www.swtor-mmorpg.com/img/gpu_temp3.png The third screen shows you, how SWTOR will kill your hardware in not very long time, as my friends Laptop Toshiba Qosmio X300-15Q (2.500$] was killed in only 3 Days. http://www.swtor-mmorpg.com/img/gpu_temp4.png Compare with another MMO: Aion http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp5aaulr.png Lotro http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp6icxji.png Videocard: MSI N560GTX-Ti Twin Frozr II 2GD5/OC - Grafikkarte - GF GTX 560 Ti, V238-248R http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1297685175JTkEbytVuw_1_2_l.jpg CPU Cooler Noctua NH-D14 http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=21175 http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp2sd11j.png http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp3ee35v.png http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp4913w0.png I donot have anything specail as far as my computer...a I7 2600 CPU..Radeon 6850 GPU...10GB ran and win 7. But I can not hear my computer fans running while playing TOR or anyother game for that matter. And the game does not lock up and I have the settings on high. So I serously donot beleave your post is correct for most players. One thing I donot do tho is...force anything in my Cataly's control and I never overclock anything. Been playing TOR sence the second wave of early access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MocnyBrowarek Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well... PvP on Ilum killed my old good Geforce 9800GT after 4 years of good work. I rezurected it after week it was dead again. I bought new ATI Radeon 4850 on DDR5 and guess what? After 4 days I land on Ilum 2 make some PvP... now my new Radeon 4850 is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Well... PvP on Ilum killed my old good Geforce 9800GT after 4 years of good work. I rezurected it after week it was dead again. I bought new ATI Radeon 4850 on DDR5 and guess what? After 4 days I land on Ilum 2 make some PvP... now my new Radeon 4850 is dead You may have some other issues going on which is killing your video cards. Smoke? Is the computer set in a enclosed space with not much air circulation? Are you overclocking anything? When was the last time you blew out the dust from inside your computer? Or you may simply have some hardwire that is going bad and causing heat to build up too much. Faulty case fans can do that. Edited February 24, 2012 by Valkirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RohanEagle Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Let me assume you're a better network engineer than you are a tech. Say you have an active-passive pair of F5's. They continuously share session state. Do you expect them to run at the same temperature, or would the passive one run cooler? That is all bs, what you are talking about. If you read my post, I solved my issue with enabling the Vsync limiter and bandicam. IT WAS A SETTING ISSUE WHICH COMES WITH THE SWTOR CLIENT (Software issue, mot a cooling issue.) http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp8e6zjp.png But go on, feel free to flame, I don't care of people like you. Edited February 24, 2012 by Averran German language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostalTwinkie Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 What OS you running? If its not a server OS then you are yet another person that drank the kool-aid. 32bit OS can manage up to 4G total (3G actually), 64 bit can manage up to 8G. Only a server OS can manage more than 8G. Putting 16G of memory into a desktop OS is a waste of memory and money. Awesome, another person that thinks they know what the hell they are talking about, but really doesn't. a 32-Bit OS can address up to 4GB of memory, the address table is large enough. Where people get "derp derp" is they think memory is just your standard system memory. Which is a massive misconception, as memory is all physical memory in all your hardware that your system has to address. This includes system memory, memory on the video card, if you have a high end audio card that has memory, it is included as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_limit The above link is a simple and easy to understand wiki article on 32-bit OS. Should you feel adventurous enough there are more technical articles you can Google that will further your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoojo Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Every new mmo release there are bunch of claims that it killed PCs from people that have no clue about what they are talking about, and I do mean every new mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I can agree with this, i have to jack up my GPU's fan to 75% while playing this game or the card heats up very quickly. Mind you, i have a GTX 590, and the game runs pretty bad when shadows are enabled .. very disappointing. you got a case of crappy/conflicting drivers no way it runs perfectly fine on my dinosaur 9800gtxs with everything but AA maxed out, and even then , i can max aa out on most places but i keep it down to elminate hitching /stuttering when in fleet.. i dont get it , i wish i could tell you just what the hell i changed that made my game run a millon times better, but i honestly did a lot of driver changes / tweaking to eventually get it smooth all i can say is , download driver sweeper, reboot in safe mode, driver sweep your gpu drivers there, reboot and install the new drivers for it , nine times out of ten its old registry entires and .dlls left over by previous driver instalations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MocnyBrowarek Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 You may have some other issues going on which is killing your video cards. Smoke? Is the computer set in a enclosed space with not much air circulation? Are you overclocking anything? When was the last time you blew out the dust from inside your computer? Or you may simply have some hardwire that is going bad and causing heat to build up too much. Faulty case fans can do that. I had no problem with my geforce 9800GT for YEARS. I don't OC anything. Temp. on GPU while playing games 55-65C (over 75 while PvP on ilum, 65 on highest in Crysis 2). And radeon... ye it has ****** cooling system but come on I was playing only 4 days! It had about 65-70 C when I was playing SWTOR and over 90C on Ilum... No more PvP on Ilum for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If you read my post, I solved my issue with enabling the Vsync limiter and bandicam. IT WAS A SETTING ISSUE WHICH COMES WITH THE SWTOR CLIENT. No. Like a couple other posters, you "fixed" the problem by shackling your hardware to avoid the actual issue. To make the obligatory car analogy: Your car engine was overheating and you blamed it on the gas you were using, but you "fixed" it by taping a block of wood behind the accelerator to make sure it never tried to go too fast. The real problem is --of course-- the fact that your engine cooling sucks, but since your "fix" worked, you assume that you must be right... regardless of the fact that your "fix" and your (incorrect) guess at the cause are not at all related. Whatever. You're doing better and that's great. Just don't try to teach others about hardware. I already waste too much time on forums trying to correct people's misconceptions about hardware/software that they learn from people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 IT WAS A SETTING ISSUE WHICH COMES WITH THE SWTOR CLIENT If you read my post, I solved my issue with enabling the Vsync limiter and bandicam. (Software issue, mot a cooling issue.) http://www.abload.de/img/gpu_temp8e6zjp.png I'm glad you found a solution to your particular problem. A solution that if I recall corrrectly was offered to you multiple times in the first pages of this thread. Like most things in life, there is not a single causative factor, it's an inter-relation of causes. And this is true in your particular case. If Vsync worked to resolve your particular issue, it indicates that your particular system (hardware, drivers, OS, etc) were not (for whatever reason) frame rate limiting the graphics AND was capable of running very high frame rates on static graphics (ie: the log in screen). The fact that setting vsync active on your system pretty much proves this. That said, we should also note that at no time did your cpu or graphics run hot enough to trigger the system safegards, right? They just ran hotter then you were confortable with in one particular corner case (the login screen). Your complaint is that somehow one software application behaves differently then another in your particular hardware configuration. Welcome to real life in computers. It happens. Now, strictly speaking, that is not a software issue on the game side of things. Imagine now if SWTOR artifically throttled your frame rate..... the outcry from the players would be deafening. Besides which, how exactly would they do this in a bug free manner that covers all the tens of thousands system configurations? Note: Running an overclocked high performance chip set, in the absense of equivalent tweaked up cooling (ie: tweaked cooling to go along with tweaked clocking and voltage settings) is in fact a design mistake in your hardware/firmware in this equation. So it IS A FACTOR in your particular situation. But also not the only factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RohanEagle Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) No. Like a couple other posters, you "fixed" the problem by shackling your hardware to avoid the actual issue. To make the obligatory car analogy: Your car engine was overheating and you blamed it on the gas you were using, but you "fixed" it by taping a block of wood behind the accelerator to make sure it never tried to go too fast. The real problem is --of course-- the fact that your engine cooling sucks, but since your "fix" worked, you assume that you must be right... regardless of the fact that your "fix" and your (incorrect) guess at the cause are not at all related. Whatever. You're doing better and that's great. Just don't try to teach others about hardware. I already waste too much time on forums trying to correct people's misconceptions about hardware/software that they learn from people like you. "speaking of witch"...car's Please don't waste OUR time with your tryin to correct, because that's all wrong. If you need the real explanation of this case, you will need to translate it and learn about. Das Problem ist weder im Programm Code noch in der Hardware sondern sehr einfach. jedes Spiel hat irgend eine Form der FPS Begrenzung, Vsync ist die begrenzung für FPS die es immer gibt, die aber eigentlich nur dafür sorgen soll das wir kein "screen tearing" haben, was bei SWTOR passiert ist das wenn man Vsync ausschaltet es keine Begrenzung mehr gibt, das heist deine Grafikkarte versucht so viel FPS zu erzeugen wie nur irgend wie möglich. Das wiederum heist das, das gute stück immer wärmer wird bis es so warm ist das der P-State verringert wird um die Leistungsspitzen zu verringern und damit die abwärme. Was dann wieder rum zur folge hat, das weniger Leistung zurverfügung steht die Grafikkarte aber immer noch versucht so viel FPS zu "erzeugen" wie möglich und dann kommen die Perfomance Probleme. Wenn man jetzt eine Externen/Künstlichen FPS Begrenzer einschaltet wie Vsync oder Bandicam merkt man recht flott wie die Grafikkarte immer mehr in einen ruhe zustand zumindest bei meiner HD 5800 hab ich dann nur noch 25% Aktivität heufig sogar garkeine mehr stats 80-90% bei eines Konstanten Ruckelfreien FPS Zahl. Was dann natürlich auch die Abwärme und die nötige Kühlung wesentlich verringert. Das alles hätte von anfang an verhindert werden können in dem SWTOR entsprechend der Norm programmiert worde wäre wenn man sich mal errinern möchte nach einiger zeit in wow hatte man auf einmal in den Optionen eine Einstellung wie viel FPS den Maximal sein sollte, andere Spiele haben das auch meistens ist der Wert aber eine feste Vorgabe. Alles nach 30 FPS ist eh nur noch schwer bis garnicht Biologisch Warhnembar egal was mansch so ein "Elite" Shootergamer sosagen mag der Sehnerv leistet es einfach nicht. Also sehr einfach wer einen guten Rechner hat sollte wenn er kann Vsync zuschalten, das kann man zwar nur in Vollbild einschalten aber es bleibt dann auch an wenn man auf den Fenstermodus geht(wo per se Vsync so oder so ansein sollte aber das scheint bei SWTOR nicht zufunktionieren). Das bringt aufjeden fall schon erleichterung für euren Rechner er hat ein Ziel 60 oder 120 FPS(Danke für die Info wusste nicht das 3D Screens 120MHz haben) jetzt kann man je nach Grafikkarte noch paar sachen machen der neue NVIDIA Treiber(Beta) hat ja einen FPS Limiter schon mit dabei und wenn man ATI nutzer ist kann man die Software Bandicam verwenden. Diese kann auch ohne eine Aufnahme laufen zulassen ein FPS Limit auf ein Programm legen und somit ein sehr Angehnemes Spielen ermöglichen. Ich empfehle 40 FPS als Limit wenn man unbedingt unter die 60 möchte, das gibt dem Rechner genug Wasser nach oben das wenn Leistungsspitze kommt er nicht unter die 25 fällt. Für die 3D Leute kann ich leider nicht sagen da ich die Hardware dafür nicht habe aber da wird es denke ich ähnliche möglichkeiten geben. @Andryah Note: Running an overclocked high performance chip set, in the absense of equivalent tweaked up cooling (ie: tweaked cooling to go along with tweaked clocking and voltage settings) is in fact a design mistake in your hardware/firmware in this equation. So it IS A FACTOR in your particular situation. But also not the only factor. I don't realy think that is my issue. Read my first post about my Case and cooling. Infact is only a FPS limiter issue. 1.)The NV Driver comes by default with application setting. That means the application will decide how the driver works. 2.)In SWTOR is the Vsync disabled. 3. You will need to set the NV driver Vsync enabled. 4. Why this SWTOR client setting has such agressive impact of the hardware? Other MMO's has Vsync too, but no effect of the temperature. Edited February 24, 2012 by RohanEagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holskabard Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I won't argue there may be issues with certain hardware / software setups that require tweaking either on the user end or optimization of the client.. Just posting to add to the stats: Monitoring software is allways active on my machine and logging to txt because I'm running a slight OC on stock cooling: CPU: I7 2600K @4.2 Ghz (just FSB 1:1 OC and a slight BLCK bump, no manual voltage tweaking or multiplier changes). Idle: 26-30°C Highest measured temp: 63°C which was on Illum. Avg: 42°C GPU: Asus EAH6970 DCII/2DI4S/2GD5 Idle:30-34°C Highest measured temp: 74°C Avg: 58°C mem: 2 x Corsair Vengeance 4GB DDR3 (8-8-8-24 @1600) Edited February 24, 2012 by Holskabard added mem as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcSDeadDeer Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 "omg, my computer died, it's bioware's fault" Did you ever think that maybe it's your computer? I have an Intel I5 2500k overclocked to 4.0, 8 gigs corsair sniper RAM oc'd to 1600 and I was ALWAYS at about 40-42 degrees Celcius WHILE using an NVIDIA 570 1.2g overclocked gpu. I was getting atleast 80 fps on fleet, about 112 everywhere else. Only time I dropped low was intentionally. Some guild mates and I ran through reg BP, got on our speeders, and aggro'd EVERY enemy possible. Once we got to the part where there is the jedi and the 2 jedi medics, we let the aggro's catch up. I think I dropped to 8 FPS because of the sheer amount of enemies and blaster fire (and I was recording, so that didnt help) If you have a desktop PC look at installing a Corsair Hyper 212 Plus Cooling unit. Its what i used, and with a 4.0 oc'd intel I5, 1600mhz overclocked RAM, an NVIDIA 570 overclocked to ~1.2 i was at most 45 degrees celcius ^^Also, use Artic Silver thermal paste. you can't afford to skimp when it comes to thermal paste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungpaoshizi Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I laugh at newbs who do not understand binary relations to hardware functionality... HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickyickytricky Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 you've been an it tech for 16 years, and you don't know the difference between minimized and maximized app? Do your supervisors know? Let me assume you're a better network engineer than you are a tech. Say you have an active-passive pair of f5's. They continuously share session state. Do you expect them to run at the same temperature, or would the passive one run cooler? noobie!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I use an Asus 560Ti and my GPU peaks at about 60c. perhaps you better stop playing SWTOR in a sauna to start with. Bwahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglec Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 There are optimisation issues BUT I run TOR on a laptop with intel HD 3000 gfx and it copes and hasn't died (not good enough fps for flashpoint or pvp though). I also run it on a pc with an nvidia 9800gtx and it runs fine. Finally I run it on my media centre pc which has minimal cooling to keep noise down. That one has an ATI6850 with passive cooling and runs in Hd with all the gfx option bar anti-aliasing turned up At excellent frame rates. Been using TOR on all three setups since launch and they're all fine. Put simply even extremely high load software does not damage hardware. Bad hardware and bad maintenance damages hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luhgnuts Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'm overclocked 30% hotter on my CPU, and nearly 40% overclock on my 560ti. I never shut down, never lock up, never crash, and my fans are sitting at 50% speed. People that say software kills hardware, don't understand hardware. OR computers, or overclocking. Go get a console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 "speaking of witch"...car's Please don't waste OUR time with your tryin to correct, because that's all wrong. If you need the real explanation of this case, you will need to translate it and learn about. When your argument isn't working, try making it in a different language! Maybe the person won't understand! Or maybe they'll be too busy to respond! At the very least, no one else will easily see that you're making the same argument that has been debunked a dozen times over! Sorry, that argument doesn't even work in German. This is the same argument that happened with Starcraft II and the answer is the same as it has always been: No matter how many frames a card renders per second, if that load causes the card to overheat, then the primary blame lies with the cooling for the card. It should not be the responsibility of any piece of software to limit itself in an effort to ensure that the video card doesn't overheat. From a software/OS/hardware design perspective, that is simply stupid. That is not the game's responsibility. If a card cannot handle drawing 600fps, then it is up to the hardware to limit the framerate. This applies similarly to the idea of heat generation and cooling. If you manufacture a card and it is capable of generating 600fps on static frame renders, then you need to test it for its ability to run cool at that load. If it has 800 shader pipelines, then you should be able to use every single one of them at full load and not have the card overheat. If it has 2G of VRAM, then you should be able to do full memory load/dumps as fast as the system bus will handle, without overheating the card. So, here's the next point: Most manufacturers (the good ones, at least) do test their cards like this. However, that isn't a guarantee against overheating, as they cannot control how the card is installed or what sort of cooling will be in place to help it. The proper operation of that card is dependent upon sufficient power, a required quality of power, and a certain ambient temperature. If you cannot supply all of those things, then the fault for improper operation lies with the builder of the system. Again: No where in this situation does software play a controlling role. A video card should not care whether its rendering 600fps of a menu screen or 5fps of photorealistic cutscenese. If it is properly manufactured and installed, it should run within spec for either. Your claim that software is somehow broken unless it contains a framerate limiter is simply wrong. Software should not --and for many reasons: cannot-- be responsible for monitoring the performance of a video card and ensuring proper behavior. At most, that would be an OS-level function. Putting that sort of limiter in application software is precisely the sort of crappy, hackish, duct-tape "fix" that I referenced earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHChrist Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It does kill hardware....The game is so bad people slam their laptops down on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It does kill hardware....The game is so bad people slam their laptops down on the ground. I'm sure you thought that was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optic Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I have a ASUS Nvidia 275 and had heating issues with only Old Republic. I was using the most up do date drivers for my card on ASUS website. I had to change to regular Nvidia Beta drivers just to bring it down 5 to 10c on average hanging around 60 to 65c with those Beta drivers. Sense updating to newest Nvidia drivers updated on the 21st it now is sitting 68 to 70c. I use ASUS smartdoctor who run in temperature mode and keeps the game from and my system from crashing. Computer is fully clean and well aired with average room temperature at 68f. My roomy has a ASUS Nvidia 560 ti and has also noticed only TOR causes it to go above his normal and runs in temperature mode also on smartdoctor to keep it safe. My friend who has two 400 series Nvidias in SLI not sure on the model number was having heat issues and now cannot even play TOR anymore. I also run my fan at 100% when it gets above 55c and still is resting higher then any other game including BF3 on high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Tom's Hardware article posted a few pages back even stated the game is rather demanding for what it is. I posted it and demanding does not equal breaking hardware. And it states it's demanding when running the game on high settings. SWTOR does not break peoples hardware. It is not possible. People break their hardware or their hardware is failing for other reasons, not software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 go get a console. q f t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 TOR is more demanding then it should be. Says who, you? That's a logical fallacy. You don't make up the requirements, the developers did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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