"The Qyzen Fess Problem" -- Am I alone?

[Blackavaar]

Yes, I have had the same issue, but I found a way around it.

 

When entering combat I send Qyzen in first, then I pick a target and CC. This way Qyzen goes to other active targets after he has taken out the first, since the first wasn't CCed.

 

This same problem occurs with many of the melee companions and the same work around applies. I agree the work around should not be necessary and the issue should be fixed.

 

[GnatB]

To be fair, I think Companions attack YOUR target... or something attacking them. My experience playing in a group is if I initiate the fight by sending in my companion (hotkeyed to mouse 4), even if I'm healing my companion is usefully occupied through the fight.

 

edit: Presumably because when you send in your companion first, *then* CC, the mobs have all picked your companion as their target already, so he gets hit, thus adds all those mobs to his threat list.

Edited February 22, 2012 by GnatB

[J-Sheridan]

I generally try not to be rude on the internet, but this is one of the worst responses I've gotten in a while. ...really? For the time being, Qyzen is the only companion I have. The next companion I get is a healer,which is useless since I am a dedicated healer. I don't need a tank, and am not using Qyzen as a tank, because my friend's Trooper tanks. I just need Qyzen to consistently deal damage while I'm keeping the party alive. Also, how did you level your characters "exclusively" using healing companions when neither class gets a healer companion until several planets in? Of course I'm going to toss Qyzen out on his *** once I get my sniper, but that's over a planet away for me.

 

Thank you for being so helpful. I'm glad your so smart.

 

:shakes head:

 

You only have three options in that case.

Ranged Tank - Hoth

Ranged DPS - Balmorra

Ranged Healer - Nar Shaddaa

 

Companions have two modes and one of those modes is ALWAYS a DPS mode. That healer companion can be acquired by 20 easily enough and if your a healer... switch him to DPS mode. Not only will he do DPS but you will NOT have to order him to attack anyone because anyone that shoots you will automatically become flagged by that NPC and blasted unless they are stunned.

Bonus points, when he then heals you OR your tank player the NPC will be attacked and naturally take some hits which AGAIN causes him to flag everything that touched him.

 

Although... its pretty obvious your completely clueless or a blatant liar.

Your 'Sniper' is a planet away - If your talking about Zenith then your in the 30+ bracket so why are you using the Melee tank when you should already HAVE that healing companion ?

 

Sage will get their healer by the end of the 3rd planet - completely possible to bypass Taris and if you have another player with you. Content should be hilariously easy regardless. Since you mentioned Trooper companion I will go out on a limb and say he is a Smuggler varient.

 

Incidentally... you do know that the droid that comes with your ship is ia healing companion... and can be equipend AND has the same abilities AS the actual healing companion you get later... he just cant use any weapons.

Bonus fact: The droid companion uses the same gear as the fail lizard.

 

Result: Your stuck with the lizard or Khem until you get your ship, after that you do have another option for a companion and even a healer player can still get use out of that ESPECIALLY if your running with another player.

[Aloro]

I've seen some related issues. The most common (and very reproducable) issue happened towards the outside of my range (maybe 25-30m) when I manually told Qyzen to attack a foe. When Qyzen's foe was dead, he'd walk back to me slowly, even though everyone else (i.e. friend and friend's companion) was still fighting.

 

Qyzen will keep fighting if you attack a new foe, or manually tell him to do so. Otherwise, he seems to lose interest and walk away.

 

My suspicion is that this is a function of range; Qyzen seems to think if I'm out of range of the combat (from his point of view), and his current foe dies, everything's done.

[FenraelWolfmien]

I *think* he's a he, although, of course, as a reptile, i.e. non-mammal, that 'rack', male or female, can't be what you think it is

 

I submit to you Diana from the original V: The Final Battle.

[Batmanandahalf]

It's great if I have the time and luxury to be able to direct Qyzen around wherever I want him to be at all times, but in a tough fight that's not an option..... He's yet to cause a party wipe, but that's probably because my friend and I are always a little higher level than the area we're questing.

 

What? Maybe it's the way your keybinds are set up? I have target select set to scrollwheel up and friendly select to scrollwheel down. If you're soloing, scrollwheel down will select Qyzen no problem. I can scrollwheel up to select an enemy no problem, use my keybind to order Qyzen to attack, and scroll back down to select him in a matter of second. Not seconds. This game is super easy mode. The only thing playing a sage/sorc requires of you is a little multitasking. I know you want the game to be played for you while you mindlessly mash buttons on your keyboard. And I know a design flaw is no excuse for a bit of difficulty. But seriously? Complaining about having to tell your pet who to attack when it literally only takes a second of your time?

 

Go solo some champions and practice switching between fighting and healing, it's not difficult. If anything I wish the class played like a shaman from warhammer and I have to do damage in order to do better heals. Now that was 10 times more difficult than anything this game has thrown at me and I healed with the best of them.

 

Multitasking. Not everyone can do it, but some could benefit from at least trying.

[DregorThule]

Yes, yes, YES! I posted about this before and got a lot of weird looks, but I know exactly what you mean. I've only gotten Theran or whatever his name is as well, but he seems to have similar problems.

[CulannHS]

In retrospect..this sounds vaguely familiar..it's hard to recall tho cause I dumped Qyzen as my official bulkhead scrubber when I got Tharan Cedrax.

 

Of course, I play a Shadow tank which would explain that, but in regards to Qyzen specifically...that does sound vaguely familiar.

[Kubernetic]

It would be nice to be able to go into a fight setup and have a few buttons near the Companion's widget that let you give specific controls.

 

For Melee, you could give them specific orders to attack certain mobs in sequence, and ignore specific mobs.

 

For Ranged, you could give them specific spots to stand and attack from.

 

And then two buttons for Free Attack (which lets them roam freely according to threat as is currently the case) and Form Up (which instructs them to get beside you and keep with you).

__

 

I had a problem similar to the Quyzen problem, but a different side of it. I was supposed to tranquilize a Killik Joiner Guardian to bring it back to the scientists on Alderaan, and I couldn't do it with the first 3 because Kira kept charging in and killing him.

 

So I'd give her instructions to attack the others, and set her on the biggest mob and I went after the Joiner. I had him down to a low enough health where I could begin trying to tranquilize him, but since it's got a timer on the tranquilizer, Kira finished her mob and came over and killed him before I could tranquilize him. LOL

[ExiledinElysium]

I'm quite aware of how to do that.

 

I'm quite resistant to having to constantly turn it on & off between fights.

 

Pets should be smart enough to avoid AOE if a CC'd opponent is within range.

 

I hadn't thought of it that way, but I certainly see your point. In the simplest sense, it's good that we can set which abilities we want our companions to use based on what role we want them to play, but from a more realistic perspective one would think the companion should be able to tell when using an AoE would be bad. I'm sure it's practically impossible to fully program that sort of consideration, but perhaps it would behoove them to at least prevent the companion from using such an ability when a CCd enemy is within the effect radius. I wouldn't know whether that's an easy program.

[ExiledinElysium]

Yes, I have had the same issue, but I found a way around it.

 

When entering combat I send Qyzen in first, then I pick a target and CC. This way Qyzen goes to other active targets after he has taken out the first, since the first wasn't CCed.

 

This same problem occurs with many of the melee companions and the same work around applies. I agree the work around should not be necessary and the issue should be fixed.

 

 

Now this is interesting. That works? I generally send Qyzen in after I Lift a mook, but I'll see what happens when I send him elsewhere first. Are you using Qyzen as a tank? Maybe this problem is even more narrow than I had thought--not just healer player characters, but healer player characters using a companion for DPS because they have a party member who is tanking. If Qyzen were tanking for me, I imagine it would be fine, since enemies would be attacking him and he would attack in kind until they're all dead. However, I've got Qyzen set for dps and my friend's Trooper character tanking and taking all the threat, so Qyzen rarely gets attacked. Do you think your duct-tape method would still work if Qyzen isn't getting attacked after he jumps in the fray?

[ExiledinElysium]

A bunch of crap that disregards or misconstrues most of what I'm saying

 

/ignore

[ExiledinElysium]

What? Maybe it's the way your keybinds are set up? I have target select set to scrollwheel up and friendly select to scrollwheel down. If you're soloing, scrollwheel down will select Qyzen no problem. I can scrollwheel up to select an enemy no problem, use my keybind to order Qyzen to attack, and scroll back down to select him in a matter of second. Not seconds. This game is super easy mode. The only thing playing a sage/sorc requires of you is a little multitasking. I know you want the game to be played for you while you mindlessly mash buttons on your keyboard. And I know a design flaw is no excuse for a bit of difficulty. But seriously? Complaining about having to tell your pet who to attack when it literally only takes a second of your time?

 

Go solo some champions and practice switching between fighting and healing, it's not difficult. If anything I wish the class played like a shaman from warhammer and I have to do damage in order to do better heals. Now that was 10 times more difficult than anything this game has thrown at me and I healed with the best of them.

 

Multitasking. Not everyone can do it, but some could benefit from at least trying.

 

Is there just a douche-mode that activates in people's brains on the internet? I'm not complaining about having to multitask. I'm complaining about having to perform an additional task in that series because my companion stares at a dead guy on the ground when people are fighting two feet away from him. It's unnecessary and frustrating. Yes, I certainly can account for it, but the point is that I shouldn't have to. I'm not a power-gamer. I'm not going to spend extra money on a mouse with spiffy side buttons that allow me to direct my companion a few seconds more efficiently. I shouldn't have to. It's an obvious flaw in the companion AI programming that can and should be fixed. Also, you're a douche.

[JediGreymere]

Not isolated to Qyzen Fess all companions have this behavior as a part of thier basic AI,

 

Point blank area of effect or area of effect attacks does not trigger your companion to attack a target however you being attacked by something or your companion being attacked by something does initiate agro for your companion. As well as single target attacks.

 

Additionally any form of CC(mezz or stun) will make a companions AI switch targets to something not currently stunned or incapacitated and if none of those are available stand still looking at the target till said mezz effect ends. Stuns that dont break from damage pets ai will attack thru, though they still exshibit target changing preferences

 

Tip i recomend is send Qyzen to attack something before you forcelift and right before your tank intiates agro, that way he gets tapped by everything so he wont have to be told to join in all battle.

 

Another tip Id suggest is just tossing around a short cooldown attack onto all the opponents in the fight and qyzen remembers them all on his agro list(dots work nicely for this)

[Blackavaar]

Now this is interesting. That works? I generally send Qyzen in after I Lift a mook, but I'll see what happens when I send him elsewhere first. Are you using Qyzen as a tank? Maybe this problem is even more narrow than I had thought--not just healer player characters, but healer player characters using a companion for DPS because they have a party member who is tanking. If Qyzen were tanking for me, I imagine it would be fine, since enemies would be attacking him and he would attack in kind until they're all dead. However, I've got Qyzen set for dps and my friend's Trooper character tanking and taking all the threat, so Qyzen rarely gets attacked. Do you think your duct-tape method would still work if Qyzen isn't getting attacked after he jumps in the fray?

 

No, he's mainly just DPS. My duo partner does the tanking.

 

[CecilTellyn]

I'm a Guardian tank spec. I don't think the AI is programmed to just attack who you do.

 

A lot of times, I'll use Kira (our second companion and the main DPS at that stage) and she tends to pick her own targets and try to take them down. In fact, if I want her to focus fire with me on a target, I have to tell her to, otherwise she feels like she needs to get more kills than me and goes to town This is actually helpful during boss fights because when you've got a boss with two trash MOBs next to him, I can concentrate on the boss and she will take out the two other MOBs by herself without being told to (usually... sometimes I have to point her to the first one but she will then go to the next one herself).

 

Not terribly helpful, I know, but I do think it illustrates the point that companions don't always just attack who you are attacking.

 

 

Mind you, they all have their little quirks. Risha, I've found, may be a starship engineer, but she has an incredible talent for getting confused by elevators. Many's the time I've got myself killed by stepping off an elevator, launching into battle against a group of nearby mobs... and only realising too late that Rish', for some reason best known to herself, is still standing around daydreaming next to the elevator platform on the floor above.

 

 

Yeah, all the companions are too stupid to use elevators. I've had that same exact scenario where I get off the elevator and rush into a group expecting back up and then... nothing because Kira is still staring at the top of the elevator in horror

Edited February 22, 2012 by CecilTellyn

[J-Sheridan]

Is there just a douche-mode that activates in people's brains on the internet? I'm not complaining about having to multitask. I'm complaining about having to perform an additional task in that series because my companion stares at a dead guy on the ground when people are fighting two feet away from him. It's unnecessary and frustrating. Yes, I certainly can account for it, but the point is that I shouldn't have to. I'm not a power-gamer. I'm not going to spend extra money on a mouse with spiffy side buttons that allow me to direct my companion a few seconds more efficiently. I shouldn't have to. It's an obvious flaw in the companion AI programming that can and should be fixed. Also, you're a douche.

 

I'll make it simple so you understand

 

Companions ONLY attack targets under three conditions

A) You attack them first

B) Target attacks the companion

C) Target attacks you

 

This is because companions effectively use the same threat / aggro mechanic as the enemies you are attacking.

If noone attacks you - no threat,

If noone attacks them - no threat

If you dont attack them - no threat

 

Using Fess as a DPS is completely worthless if you have a player tanking as the TANK will take the aggro and then you will take aggro for healing that tank and THEN Fess MIGHT react when you get hit.

 

Your only options to make Fess attack is to manually send him after everyone or initiate combat first and take hits..

 

Although even then your STILL boned because ANY Companion DPS would STILL do the same thing because YOU ARE NOT DIRECTLY ENGAGING IN COMBAT by healing. The only exception is the healer companion who will automatically heal anyone in the party who is hurt and by extention draw aggro to themselves which in turn causes them to respond automatically.

 

Companion AI is reactionary and thus they need to be MADE to attack targets unless that target has directly or indirectly triggered the conditions for them to engage on their own. This wont change either because an aggressive AI presents a lot more mechanic issues.

[Gharlane]

At least he doesnt break the CC and yes its annoying but on the other hand when you finish off the others hes standing by the forcelifted mob and attacks as soon as you break the CC

[Shadyne]

I'm a Guardian tank spec. I don't think the AI is programmed to just attack who you do.

 

A lot of times, I'll use Kira (our second companion and the main DPS at that stage) and she tends to pick her own targets and try to take them down. In fact, if I want her to focus fire with me on a target, I have to tell her to, otherwise she feels like she needs to get more kills than me and goes to town This is actually helpful during boss fights because when you've got a boss with two trash MOBs next to him, I can concentrate on the boss and she will take out the two other MOBs by herself without being told to (usually... sometimes I have to point her to the first one but she will then go to the next one herself).

 

Not terribly helpful, I know, but I do think it illustrates the point that companions don't always just attack who you are attacking.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, all the companions are too stupid to use elevators. I've had that same exact scenario where I get off the elevator and rush into a group expecting back up and then... nothing because Kira is still staring at the top of the elevator in horror

 

Ive wondered about Kira. I have several 30 chars and a 48 trooper, but just got my knight to Kira. And I have never noticed another companion do what she does.

 

Which seems to be run from random mob to random mob smacking them once or twice then moving on to the next.

[Deyjarl]

Bind the companion attack to a button, say the G key and this really isn't an issue if you want him attacking your current target.

[usblues]

Another similar problem is your healing companions will stop healing you if you have a monster CCed and that's the only monster still alive.

 

For instance: you CC one out of a pack, kill the other ones, and want to heal up before taking on the CCed one.

 

Well your healing companion will just stand there and not heal you while your health is low. You have to manually click each heal one by one till you finally decide to engage the CCed monster, at which point they start healing again.

[Strawwberry]

They're all like that. Some are worse though. My friend and I are always yelling at Vette because she broke my cc. And he's always yelling at me to make Khem (before I got Andronikos) go attack something.

 

Really, it's my friend's fault because he didn't turn off her aoe. But it's frustrating and fun at the same time. So we like to yell at our computers I can live with that.

 

I do wish there was an aggressive mode though I could turn on at pull & off after so we don't pull another set.

 

As a healer it's a pain targeting who I want my companion to attack while I'm also trying/needing to target one of us to heal. There are times it gets chaotic (thanks to Vette breaking my cc darn her ) and my companion of choice stands around doing nothing because I can't take the time out to target an enemy and tell him to attack. And I have zero or very little threat because my tanking friend uses his shield on me to reduce threat on me and my companion has no threat because the one target I started him attacking on is already dead.

 

 

I have another sorc and it's easier to deal with when I solo since I went madness tree and am using Andronikos. Double dps with bubbles for all is fast and a lot less companion micromanaging.

[GnatB]

Ive wondered about Kira. I have several 30 chars and a 48 trooper, but just got my knight to Kira. And I have never noticed another companion do what she does.

 

Which seems to be run from random mob to random mob smacking them once or twice then moving on to the next.

 

I think that is answered by:

 

Additionally any form of CC(mezz or stun) will make a companions AI switch targets to something not currently stunned or incapacitated and if none of those are available stand still looking at the target till said mezz effect ends. Stuns that dont break from damage pets ai will attack thru, though they still exshibit target changing preferences

 

Half of my JK's attacks have some sort of short stun/incapacitate built in (such as Force leap). Whenever that occurs, Kira will attack something that isn't stunned if there's anything else in the "threat list". Which is presumably the henchman mobs whacking on me.

 

So I suspect it's just a happy coincidence.

 

Edit: And for those healers out there with companions/tanks: target targets target is a great function to have hotkeyed. Makes it easier to swap back and forth between an ally (say, your tank) and what he's tanking (say, the enemy) and back.

Edited February 23, 2012 by GnatB

[Calastrophe]

While I'm sure it would be nice for companions to read our minds and be completely independent, I think people need to realise that companions will never be the equivalent of a real person.

 

Yes the companion AI is not perfect, but for every concern there is an easy way to counter it, mostly involving actually managing your companion a bit. If you don't want to manage your companion then fine, but please realise that the AI will never be perfect. If you want a partner who can think for themselves then go team up with another person.

[ExiledinElysium]

Bind the companion attack to a button, say the G key and this really isn't an issue if you want him attacking your current target.

 

I don't want to be rude to you since you haven't been overtly insulting as have others, but am I speaking a different freaking language here? The problem exhibits precisely because I don't have a target, because i'm focusing on keeping my party alive![i/]. I fully realize there is a way for me to "fix" this problem myself, by making small changes to the way I play. That's what I'm doing anyway because the AI code hasn't been changed (obviously). I'm on these forums because the developers ought to change that code.

 

Let me once again be perfectly clear. I know how companions are programmed. I know why Qyzen has been acting like a complete idiot. I know how I can work around his stupidity. I still think it's a glaring flaw in the AI. There's a big difference between wanting the game to do everything for me, and expecting my companion to behave with the most basic common sense notion that one shouldn't stare at a dead body when one's allies are being killed two feet away. I only recently realized this problem even existed, because it was only last weekend that my friend and I moved on to a new planet and encountered a few tougher fights. In most fights, I'm doing both offensive and defensive work, so it's not an issue. I'm not positive, but I think he has been attacking enemies that I have targeted with force powers, even while I go back to healing. The problem rears its head when I get into a really tough fight with lots of elites, because I spend all my time popping force shields on everyone and keeping my tank alive.

 

Honestly, I may be just a different sort of gamer than most of you guys who are telling me I should just shut up and learn to multitask. The extra effort and focus it would take for me to tell Qyzen which next enemy to attack after one is taken down, while I'm watching everyone's health meter and my cooldowns, is not something I think I should have to worry about. I'm a casual gamer. I play this game because the story is interesting and the gameplay is generally fun and relaxed. I don't do warzones in this game, and I didn't play battlegrounds in WoW, because I don't like the high-stress hyper-competitive atmosphere. I've got enough stress in my life--I shouldn't have to add 'Qyzen staring at the ground like an idiot' to the list. If you can't see the sense in what I'm saying, then there's no point talking to you (or y'all, as it were).