Same gender relationships clarifications?

[wainot-keel]

I have seen nothing to convince me that being able to choose my orientation at character creation is a bad idea. I've seen tons of people use straw man arguments by referring to civil rights examples or try to equate sexual preference with being evil or good but they all fall flat.

[...]

 

Noone is trying to convince anyone of anything. I doubt that's the case. People are just expressing their opinions.

 

Anyway, I think such a feature it's unnecessary, sends the wrong message and it's mildly offensive, because, let's be honest, the toggle is to hide "teh gay". Without the inclusion of SGR, I doubt people would be asking settings for romance options in the character creator.

 

I agree with you that sexual preferances aren't the same as being 'evil' or 'good'. Not by a long shot. There's no clear segment of the population that's "good" or "evil", there's no community or group like that. So if you're creating an option to remove all the Dark Side options from the start, no one will complain or feel personally offended by it.

 

On the other hand, there is a segment in the population that is not straight. What you're doing with the toggle is single them out and implying that such lifestyle is morally "wrong" or "offensive" in some way that deserves the posibilty of having a tool to remove it entirely from the game. That's what it is offensive.

[wainot-keel]

It sucks atm. I don't want to talk to risha or elara right now. Yet they both want to chat with my smuggler and trooper. I don't want to miss anything so having to ignore them until this is added.

 

I thought about it, but that sucks too. It's nice to play the romance progression with your character's story progression. I mean, what would be like ? You reach endgame and then, at some point via patch or expansion, you have a streamlined series of convos you do in one sitting ? That wouldn't be so satisfying, not for me.... So much

uncertainty

[Calimwulf]

I'd want to see sexual orientation as a choice at character creation as well. That way I can choose how I will RP.

[ZenMondo]

I'd want to see sexual orientation as a choice at character creation as well. That way I can choose how I will RP.

 

Not setting a bitflag in the software as to how you are oriented has no impact on your choices as you RP. What I don't get is how does NOT setting an orientation limit your RP in ANY WAY?

[JediElf]

Can we just have them already?

 

Please Bioware?

[Calimwulf]

Not setting a bitflag in the software as to how you are oriented has no impact on your choices as you RP. What I don't get is how does NOT setting an orientation limit your RP in ANY WAY?

I'd suggest you relax just a little. Yelling at folks just because you don't agree with them is quite uncivil. If I am RPing a heterosexual character, why should I see homosexual choices?

[emusan]

I'd suggest you relax just a little. Yelling at folks just because you don't agree with them is quite uncivil. If I am RPing a heterosexual character, why should I see homosexual choices?

 

Why give your character the choices? Because they're just that, choices.

 

Everyone, every day, in every conversation has the choice to flirt with the other person, whether or not they are appealing isn't relevant. Sure, 99.9% of the time a straight male wont flirt with another man, but the choice is still there.

 

Maybe your character thinks he could get a little bonus on a mission by flirting with someone of the same gender. Sure not everyone would do it, but the choice is still there(it's particularly fitting for smugglers, though could be carried over to really any class).

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not stating that your sexual orientation is a choice, just that in a normal dialogue with another human being, you have choices in what you say...

Edited March 1, 2012 by emusan

[Suaine]

I'd suggest you relax just a little. Yelling at folks just because you don't agree with them is quite uncivil. If I am RPing a heterosexual character, why should I see homosexual choices?

 

Why do you see light side choices on a dark side character? It gives you the chance to make your RP decisions on the go instead of just pre-loading everything. Isn't more choice as you play a better option?

[Kioma]

I'd suggest you relax just a little. Yelling at folks just because you don't agree with them is quite uncivil. If I am RPing a heterosexual character, why should I see homosexual choices?

 

Others have already said it but I'll reiterate. Having multiple options doesn't restrict your capacity to play your character. That's how you play your character - by selecting choices.

[Calimwulf]

I fully understand that most of you folks in this thread that support homosexual relations in the game are looking at this as a social issue. I won't comment on that. What I will say is that exactly as I can choose whether or not I want flashes on my screen when skills go off cool down, I should also have the option whether or not I want to see homosexual and or heterosexual flirt choices. Have fun and bye bye.

[Innocentone]

I find it funny that some try to argue that just because children play this game that SGRA shouldn't be added . For those parents this game does have a rating on it . http://www.swtor.com/info Blood Gore , mind language, sexual themes and violence . Rated T . If your getting offended by SGRA getting added to the game just because your kids may play it. Then they shouldn't be playing it anyway. It's your own fault as a parent for ignoring the rating when you purchased the game. Adding SGRA would fall under the rating given for the game. I am also sure everyone that is playing the game has had to accept certain agreements before actually playing the game. Your arguments are null and void. Have a nice day.

[amnie]

I fully understand that most of you folks in this thread that support homosexual relations in the game are looking at this as a social issue. I won't comment on that. What I will say is that exactly as I can choose whether or not I want flashes on my screen when skills go off cool down, I should also have the option whether or not I want to see homosexual and or heterosexual flirt choices. Have fun and bye bye.

 

nobody is saying you aren't allowed to .have. an opinion. doesn't change the fact that your opinion is... well... kinda... uh... nope, can't think of a nice word here.

[Kioma]

nobody is saying you aren't allowed to .have. an opinion. doesn't change the fact that your opinion is...

 

...allowed to be disagreed with.

[amnie]

I find it funny that some try to argue that just because children play this game that SGRA shouldn't be added . For those parents this game does have a rating on it . http://www.swtor.com/info Blood Gore , mind language, sexual themes and violence . Rated T . If your getting offended by SGRA getting added to the game just because your kids may play it. Then they shouldn't be playing it anyway. It's your own fault as a parent for ignoring the rating when you purchased the game. Adding SGRA would fall under the rating given for the game. I am also sure everyone that is playing the game has had to accept certain agreements before actually playing the game. Your arguments are null and void. Have a nice day.

 

I'm fairly sure a flirt prompt or a kiss from a companion is not nearly as bad as certain story arcs (at this point I love to tell you about the scene where the sith warrior can kill some dude and later have a three-some with dude's wife and Vette...)

 

morals... some people have them wrong

[ZenMondo]

I fully understand that most of you folks in this thread that support homosexual relations in the game are looking at this as a social issue. I won't comment on that. What I will say is that exactly as I can choose whether or not I want flashes on my screen when skills go off cool down, I should also have the option whether or not I want to see homosexual and or heterosexual flirt choices. Have fun and bye bye.

 

Those are two different beasts. A cool down graphic is a pure UI issue. Dialog choices is a content issue. Same Gender Romance Arcs are not a mere cosmetic change, it speaks to the content of the narrative and it means something.

 

Bioware has time and time again stated how storytelling is a pillar of this game. In that pillar is the possibility for romance. However Bioware has also put out a "Gays need not apply" sign on the romance arc.

 

Now each of us is free to shape our own story by the choices our characters make. What the introduction of SGRA will do is offer ALL players more choice.

[Uluain]

I fully understand that most of you folks in this thread that support homosexual relations in the game are looking at this as a social issue. I won't comment on that. What I will say is that exactly as I can choose whether or not I want flashes on my screen when skills go off cool down, I should also have the option whether or not I want to see homosexual and or heterosexual flirt choices. Have fun and bye bye.

I fully understand that you do not have a single, rational argument why what you want to see on your screen is more important that what anyone else wants to see on their screen, and am therefore completely unsurprised that you avoided answering my question.

 

However, this is not a social issue. It is a game-play issue, relating directly to my enjoyment of a game that I pay the same money to play as anyone else, but without the inclusion of what others already enjoy. Don't stick around to answer in any case - I won't be able to see it. That is an option we all have that I for one am glad for.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Uluain

[MGriffith]

I'd want to see sexual orientation as a choice at character creation as well. That way I can choose how I will RP.

 

I much rather not have a flag that must be set at character creation, but if that is the only way Bioware is going to give us this then so be it.

 

My preference is that the game initially offers both same and opposite flirt options but gradually reduces the frequency of offering those options that are not use. Flirt with guys and guys will start (or keep) flirting back. Flirt with girls and the same happens. Flirt with both and, well, you can probably guess that you wilil be popular at parties and get a lot of invitations.

And if you consistently ignore the flirt options then the NPCs will eventually think you a grouch and stop flirting with you entirely.

Edited March 1, 2012 by MGriffith

[Kioma]

And if you consistently ignore the flirt options then the NPCs will eventually think you a grouch and stop flirting with you entirely.

 

Do you mean the same NPCs or all NPCs? Like, you ignore enough heterosexual flirt prompts on Tatooine and then all male NPCs on Alderaan won't flirt with you either?

[emusan]

I much rather not have a flag that must be set at character creation, but if that is the only way Bioware is going to give us this then so be it.

 

My preference is that the game initially offers both same and opposite flirt options but gradually reduces the frequency of offering those options that are not use. Flirt with guys and guys will start (or keep) flirting back. Flirt with girls and the same happens. Flirt with both and, well, you can probably guess that you wilil be popular at parties and get a lot of invitations.

And if you consistently ignore the flirt options then the NPCs will eventually think you a grouch and stop flirting with you entirely.

 

My only problem with your idea is that while I'm attracted to both, that doesn't mean I'm attracted to everyone, I may flirt with one girl/guy and not another... If they do add multiple of each gender at some point I'd still rather be able to be with either even if previously my bisexual character has only expressed interest in one. As you say though, if it must be this way(or one in which there is a toggle), I would grudgingly accept it.

 

Honestly though I don't see this discussion going much of anywhere at this point. Those that want a toggle(whether at character creation or not) usually want it because they just don't want to "see" that such content exists. Those that do not want one don't think that is a good enough reason(and bring up points to support that)... Neither side is going to convince the other, it's really up to bioware at this point.

Edited March 1, 2012 by emusan

[ZenMondo]

I much rather not have a flag that must be set at character creation, but if that is the only way Bioware is going to give us this then so be it.

 

I seriously doubt there will be any such thing when SGRA is introduced. The no-gays filter and all the variations of it is just one of those tenacious bad ideas that will not go away until a word -- any word -- comes from Bioware to say otherwise.

 

 

My preference is that the game initially offers both same and opposite flirt options but gradually reduces the frequency of offering those options that are not use. Flirt with guys and guys will start (or keep) flirting back. Flirt with girls and the same happens. Flirt with both and, well, you can probably guess that you wilil be popular at parties and get a lot of invitations.

And if you consistently ignore the flirt options then the NPCs will eventually think you a grouch and stop flirting with you entirely.

 

This is also a VERY BAD IDEA. Let me explain why, say I get a variety of flirts from guys I just don't find appealing. This is not an indication that I don't like men, just that I do not like THOSE men. There may be some charming gentleman I would not mind fading to black with around level 34 but if it is keeping a counter of the flirts I did not pursue and gets the (mistaken) idea that I am just not into dudes then it is by a mechanism taking out my choice from the game. I don't want to be categorized as straight or gay if being bi simply means I can't be picky.

[Kioma]

This is also a VERY BAD IDEA.

 

I think 'very bad idea', especially in capitals, is a bit harsh. I think it's a very interesting idea but I feel that implementation issues would make it a little too complex to instigate.

 

There's an important matter of incoming and outgoing flirts with a system like this - that is, the flirts you're getting versus the flirts you're giving out.

 

I can imagine this as being a great system for incoming flirts in a small area - word gets around you don't flirt back so people just stop showing interest in you - but I don't think that should alter outgoing flirtation opportunity. That allows, as Zen says, someone to be picky. If the target of your flirt expresses confusion or surprise because you're known to be unresponsive to flirtation, too, that could add an interesting twist.

 

However, like I said, the implementation issues would make this a nightmare given how many different areas and how many different NPCs there are. You'd find your 'flirtation reputation' would reset all the time because you were travelling to different planets, to start with.

 

Of course the other point is that there just aren't that many incoming flirts in the game. Most NPCs can be flirted with but rarely initiate flirtation (unless you're a Smuggler).

Edited March 1, 2012 by Kioma

[Lurkz]

I think that an option at character creation, while possibly the most acceptable option, is still a poor decision. Maybe I don't know for sure at character creation whether I want that character to be straight or gay or bi? My smuggler was intended to be straight all the way and then I met Corso and Risha. The former I can't stand, the second is awesome and so my character, in my head, became at least somewhat bisexual. If I had had to pick "straight" at character creation then I'd be left without any way to follow through on my changed perspective (assuming that was an option which it's currently not with SGRAs). And that's just not cool.

 

(unless you're a Smuggler).

 

It both saddens and amuses me how much this particular phrase is relevant (and I play a smuggler).

[Innocentone]

I am not gonna reroll just to get this when my smugglers already 50 with good gear , medals and other stuff =P . After having to do that already since there was no ac change. I would most likely just end up quitting this game if that was our only option. Not running back threw all that again just for this. To much time wasted. 43/67 datacrons that were annoying to get as well! I can assume there are others out there that have similar scenarios. Edited March 1, 2012 by Innocentone

[Aloro]

An option at character creation would prevent our characters from growing organically. I'm a straight guy, but my female trooper has found Elara Dorne to be pretty damned intriguing, and, sure, I'd play that option out if I had a chance. I hadn't planned on it, didn't expect it, but that's how their story has developed.

 

That's how a game like this works best, IMO: allow us to just choose whatever makes the most sense to us at the time, and our stories can grow naturally out of those choices.

[ZenMondo]

I think 'very bad idea', especially in capitals, is a bit harsh. I think it's a very interesting idea but I feel that implementation issues would make it a little too complex to instigate.

 

Don't read too much into my caps I OVERUSE them for EMPHASIS when I SHOULD NOT. It comes from decades of habit of communicating on fora where there is no text formatting beyond CAPS or *asterisks* or _underline_ . I will try to do better.

 

Why I thought such a sliding system was a very bad idea beyond the game mechanics I pointed out, as a programmer, I can do a back of an envelope calculation on how complex such a system would have to be for what is little pay off that can just as easily be accomplished by giving everyone the same 3 prompts with the flirt in there and leave the choice up to the player.

 

[*snip*]

 

 

However, like I said, the implementation issues would make this a nightmare given how many different areas and how many different NPCs there are. You'd find your 'flirtation reputation' would reset all the time because you were travelling to different planets, to start with.

 

Of course the other point is that there just aren't that many incoming flirts in the game. Most NPCs can be flirted with but rarely initiate flirtation (unless you're a Smuggler).

 

 

I see we are on the same page on this just the cost to develop such a system (not just money but time, and resources) for what it would do just does not balance. Preference algorithms are very tricky things and places like TiVO and Netflix pay bounties on algorithms that can just make better movie recommendations by just a few percentage points of accuracy. To have a romantic interest recommendation algorithm seems to me to be a bit overkill as opposed to just giving us the choice to flirt regardless and letting us choose.

Edited March 1, 2012 by ZenMondo
Broken quote tag