Suaine Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I wish those converations took place here.. Those are the ones I am interested in having.. We've had those discussions several times, but why don't you start with what you'd like to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 NO, WE DON'T, because BW ain't talking about it. "It" being same-gender [Flirt]s beyond companion romances. Which, if one espouses a stance of being "all for equality", obviously follows if BioWare wishes to be inclusive in fact, rather than in token. Originally Posted by StephenReid Official statement follows: Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options. How does the hi-lighted sentence not say that it will be added?? It will be added.. That is their official statement.. It will be a post launch feature.. Or after launch.. Like I have always said.. We don't know when.. But that says they will.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiellyn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 We know all there is to know at this point in time.. We should be happily discussing the how we would like it done and the who we would like to see.. Not worrying about questions that can't be answered at this point or things that even Bioware does not know.. For happy fun-time discussion see; threads 1 and 2, clocking in at 200 pages worth of discussion. We have covered; -Current companions and how to implement them in s/s romance. -Issues with current companions, such as Corso's chivalry which may or may not be based in his sexuality or simply his upbringing. -The toggle. 'Nuff said. -New companions we would like to see. A few found the idea of a Cathar interesting, since they apparently mate for life and the low population might discourage same-gender relationships. -Whether or not NPC flirts would be included in this update. It even has a spin-off thread. -What it would take for Bioware to complete this content. All they need are a few voice-clips for each companion, along with re-records for swapped pronouns in certain lines, the technical know-how on how to change the values for gender being brought into dialogue options (essentially, setting all values to either male or female, and tailoring the flags to respond to that one.), and... That's pretty much it. What, pray tell, should we discuss next? Because off of one quote five months ago, I really have nothing else to offer Bioware without further information. Bringing up random companion concepts for the "future" companions is next to pointless, since the odds of any ideas being up-to-par with what Bioware wants to write are slim to none and with no info on how they will be handled (shared between classes? Each faction? One male, one female? More? Less?), we might as well just scream into a pillow for all the good it does. If you want a metaphor, picture a car. A perfectly fine car. It works just as it should. But hey, it's out of gas. We can spend all day looking over the engine, the brakes, the tires, and the windshield wipers. But when push comes to shove, the car is still out of gas and that little inspection got you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 NO, WE DON'T, because BW ain't talking about it. "It" being same-gender [Flirt]s beyond companion romances. Which, if one espouses a stance of being "all for equality", obviously follows if BioWare wishes to be inclusive in fact, rather than in token. Official statement follows: Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options. How does the hi-lighted sentence not say that it will be added?? It will be added.. That is their official statement.. It will be a post launch feature.. Or after launch.. Like I have always said.. We don't know when.. But that says they will.. Look at the fragment you've quoted. Uluain specifies 'beyond companion romance'. The sentence you highlighted specified companion romance. Therein lies the discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 we might as well just scream into a pillow for all the good it does. Mmm. Images. >.> What, just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiellyn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mmm. Images. >.> What, just me? ... ... Awwww yeah. Slightly more on-topic! Um... Well... Dorne is looking very pretty this morning, I suppose? Can I just have a kiss on the cheek from her, Bioware? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 We've had those discussions several times, but why don't you start with what you'd like to see? What would I like to see?? Disclaimer: The following assumptions are being made.. Any changes made to existing companions will be noticeable by any and all players.. No switch turning off new romantic arcs has been installed or will be.. No offense to anyone is meant by this post.. I am on the fence on wether or not current companions should be modified or altered for new romance arcs.. The issue is that the destict personalities they all have.. I don't think this change should alter who they are personality wise.. Corso should still be the lovable back country hick he always is.. I still want to laugh my butt off on his drunk conversation.. But on the same note, I can see Corso swinging both ways.. He does seem to have that persona about him.. Like how he names all his guns.. That could just be me.. Bottom line here is that if the current companions can be changed without altering who they are currently.. Then I am all for it.. If their personalities can't be preserved, then they need to create new companions.. At least 2 per class.. One male and one female.. Oddly enough, the female troopers that players get.. They would be perfect for a same sex romance.. But they are players.. The female troopers strike me as being butch.. I would like to see a female companion version of that.. Basically a female Sgt Rusk type character.. There was a girl in the smuggler quests on Coruscant.. Kixxi or something like that.. She was a slicer.. From the short time I saw her, she was the nerdy type.. The type that was beautiful and brainy that it scared you at the same time.. She would be a great match for a female Rusk.. Personality.. This game and companions is all about personality.. I would love to see some new characters made spefically for this.. With their own personalities and their own little sayings.. I don't think we should settle for altering the existing ones.. But if they can do with the personality intact.. I am all for it.. As for the general flirt option that you rarely bet with some quest givers.. I see no reason why they can't add some more random flirt options to balance it out.. Flirting with a quest giver hasn't even got me a date.. Just a Senator that later resigned.. Makes me glad I have Risha in my cargo hold.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Look at the fragment you've quoted. Uluain specifies 'beyond companion romance'. The sentence you highlighted specified companion romance. Therein lies the discrepancy. Perhaps because there is nothing to talk about.. So they add a few flirt options going the other way at random places.. It is about the same as what is there for everyone else.. What is there to say about it?? Isn't that nit picking a little?? Shouldn't we just worry about he larger issue and that is having our flings with our companions?? There is no romance beyond companions.. So you get one maybe 2 lines with the flirt option on a single quest giver.. From 1 - 50 I maybe saw 4 or 5 quest givers in all that gave you the option to flirt.. The amount is miniscule.. Not even work the mention.. Like I said they can add all of about 20 flirt options, 10 on the republic side and 10 on the emperial side and be equal to everyone else.. So really.. There isn't much to say aobut it.. They should probably just take them all out as they are pointless to begin with.. They don't lead to anything that I have seen.. Not even an email.. Edited February 27, 2012 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Perhaps because there is nothing to talk about.. So they add a few flirt options going the other way at random places.. It is about the same as what is there for everyone else.. What is there to say about it?? Isn't that nit picking a little?? Um... You said you couldn't see how the StephenReid quote didn't address Uluain's comment. I was pointing out how it doesn't. That's all. I'm not nitpicking anyone's posts, just doing my best to clarify, so as to iron out misunderstandings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandilar Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oddly enough, the female troopers that players get.. They would be perfect for a same sex romance.. But they are players.. The female troopers strike me as being butch.. I would like to see a female companion version of that.. Basically a female Sgt Rusk type character.. Female Trooper = Female Commander Shepard from the Mass Effect series. They used the same voice actress (Jennifer Hale), and unfortunately she gave both characters a very similar voice, and their personalities seem similar... At least to me, anyway. I have trouble separating them in my head. It is one of the problems I have with my female Trooper. (Strangely enough, this isn't true for me for Jo Wyatt's f!Agent vs f!Hawke, despite their similar voices... And I don't know why.) I'd be careful about using the butch label too, just because she's a tough soldier doesn't mean she can't be femme. There was a girl in the smuggler quests on Coruscant.. Kixxi or something like that.. She was a slicer.. From the short time I saw her, she was the nerdy type.. The type that was beautiful and brainy that it scared you at the same time.. She would be a great match for a female Rusk.. She was a pretty good NPC. However, I think I prefer Elara Dorne for my f!Trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What, pray tell, should we discuss next? Because off of one quote five months ago, I really have nothing else to offer Bioware without further information. Bringing up random companion concepts for the "future" companions is next to pointless, since the odds of any ideas being up-to-par with what Bioware wants to write are slim to none and with no info on how they will be handled (shared between classes? Each faction? One male, one female? More? Less?), we might as well just scream into a pillow for all the good it does. I don't have any answers for this.. Other than to say that screaming in our pillow does more good than paddling around in circles arguing about stuff.. While I see your point about needing input from Bioware.. All I can say is, I am sure they will give it to us when they have it to give.. So I am left with be patient.. Or you could just go scream in your pillow.. I can say that I was not there for the other threads.. Sorry I missed them.. But in the hear and now.. I guess there is nothing to talk about until we get some new info.. I don't mind sharing ideas anyways.. You never know when someone comes up with a totally awsome idea.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Okay then, let's make wishlists again. I guess there is some value in repeating what exactly it is we want. 1. All currently romanceable companions should be made available. I want them all, even if personally I might never end up choosing them. This should not be too difficult - as we've repeatedly been told by the nice folks coming here and doubting the importance of this issue, it's not that much content. This includes their reaction to me flirting with someone else and companion-on-companion jealousy. 2. Flirt options outside of companion content need to be made equal, either by making them all gender neutral or adding a significant amount for gay (and female!) characters. How many times it actually goes anywhere or even finds a sympathetic ear is unimportant to the main issue - that flirt options help define the sexuality of my player character for me. 3. New romance companions should either all be hero-sexual, meaning that they are available to everyone of either gender, or there should be an exclusively gay character for every straight one, with a couple of bisexuals to round out the offering. Personally, I prefer the all-hero-sexual route because it gives each individual a larger amount of choice in their play. 4. Old content needs to be looked at to fix some of the issues where a character can accidentally be locked into a fade-to-black scene without choosing a flirt option and several conversations that are either "flirt or jerk" responses. A good way to fix the issue with the game assuming a character's sexuality without input would be to make all flirt and romance options an additional choice located on the left side of the convo wheel while offering all the non-flirt choices the other gender/non-romance currently gets on the right side. 5. Old companions should receive new content, like new quests and conversations beyond what is currently in the game. For people who have already played through the original content on their max-level character this should offer a second chance to romance a companion, regardless of gender. These are all things that this thread has discussed again and again. Beyond that, we're going into fantasy la-la-land. We shouldn't have any influence on the actual nuanced writing of the characters - that way lies bad story-telling. If we want to start making up characters, we can, but that's really nothing more (or less!) than writing fanfiction. If they want us to help shape specific characters, they need to tell us so. But frankly from a copyright perspective alone that seems somehow ill-advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Um... You said you couldn't see how the StephenReid quote didn't address Uluain's comment. I was pointing out how it doesn't. That's all. I'm not nitpicking anyone's posts, just doing my best to clarify, so as to iron out misunderstandings. I wasn't refering to you as nit picking.. Sorry.. I must be getting tired or something.. Lots of people misunderstanding me.. Sorry guys.. I am calling it a night!! Talk to you laters!! I think I am going to go scream in my pillow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'd be careful about using the butch label too, just because she's a tough soldier doesn't mean she can't be femme. I was using the butch label as more of an adjective instead of a label.. This was also why I put the disclaimer in.. I am not good at knowing words are ok to use and what words aren't.. Goodnight!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) While I see your point about needing input from Bioware.. All I can say is, I am sure they will give it to us when they have it to give.. So I am left with be patient.. Or you could just go scream in your pillow.. Or we could, I don't know, start a thread asking for Same gender relationship clarification?Or post in the Q&A. The latter, by the way, was the specific advice of Customer Service, in answering an email to swtorfeedback@swtor.com: We encourage you to continue to post in the Q&A thread, however, as the Community team may be able to provide you with further information from the developers on the subject. I took that as encouragement to continue to post to the Q&A thread - which, as I recall, is what brought you in here all gung ho to tell us it was pointless, and to stop "spamming". Why so buddy-buddy now, anyway? Edited February 27, 2012 by Uluain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The issue is that the destict personalities they all have.. I don't think this change should alter who they are personality wise.. Corso should still be the lovable back country hick he always is.. I still want to laugh my butt off on his drunk conversation.. But on the same note, I can see Corso swinging both ways.. He does seem to have that persona about him.. Like how he names all his guns.. That could just be me.. Bottom line here is that if the current companions can be changed without altering who they are currently.. Then I am all for it.. If their personalities can't be preserved, then they need to create new companions.. At least 2 per class.. One male and one female.. Please, please let's all remember that personality and sexual preference have literally nothing to do with each other. There is no causation or correlation. Changing a character to include SGRAs will not change their personality. Unless they have explicitly stated they would never be involved in a romance with the same gender, it doesn't even have to change their political or social attitudes (and if they have stated such, it could be a slow process like getting Fenris to fall in love with a mage in DA2). I realize people bring this up because they have some significant stereotypes stuck in their heads, but it's really a non-issue. The only effect sexuality has on personality is that of being part of an oppressed group, but this, I hope, turns out to be a non-issue in a galaxy far, far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozybidaj Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well apparently people are now going to be allowed to troll the thread at will for no reason other than to antagonize the people who actually want to post about the issue. Good thing my time is running out. Later folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozybidaj Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Okay then, let's make wishlists again. I guess there is some value in repeating what exactly it is we want. 1. All currently romanceable companions should be made available. I want them all, even if personally I might never end up choosing them. This should not be too difficult - as we've repeatedly been told by the nice folks coming here and doubting the importance of this issue, it's not that much content. This includes their reaction to me flirting with someone else and companion-on-companion jealousy. That is the main point far as I am concerned. Without this the whole discussion is a moot point anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozybidaj Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I took that as encouragement to continue to post to the Q&A thread - which, as I recall, is what brought you in here all gung ho to tell us it was pointless, and to stop "spamming". Why so buddy-buddy now, anyway? Because he is trying to continue doing so without his posts getting deleted. Apparently that is enough to fool the moderators as to his intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'd be careful about using the butch label too, just because she's a tough soldier doesn't mean she can't be femme. Female Troopers romancing Aric Jorgan get a funny bit of this. One of the first overt signs of the romance is when Aric gives the Trooper some jewelry. One of the options in response is "[Flirt] Looks kinda girlie" which leads to "Couldn't you get me something more practical next time, like thermite?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamaranis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 ...it feels like being back in high school... A terrible fate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenpsych Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) 1 - A rough eta on same sex relationships (flirting ect) Were not after a nailed down etched in stone, be all end all date, Just a rough idea. A week/Month maybe 3 ect ? 2 - Those that happen to pick the "wrong" gender at creation are currently missing out with regards to there story arc, In my example Female sentinel missing out with Kira. There are 2 ways I see to fix this. 3 - This is more of a given I think, but will there be more customization options for your companions. For example something to just change your companions hair color or skin tone. (I say its a given because its something so obvious that can be expanded upon and require very little work) Which do you prefer option 2a or option 2b ? #1 is inviting trouble #2 2a is completely unfeasible and sloppy. 2b could work but is very sloppy and would only get bashed for leaving something again with less than perfect implementation. #3 What does this have to do with the topic? My own thoughts: hear a lot of arguing that from the SGRA because the SGRA's are loudest and most forceful (pun intended) that for some reason that means they should get answers. I would say this argument should be left out of everything you post in the future if you want a community to be behind you. We would all love some more intriguing story arcs with our companions, but the loudest group about a rather niche request is going to be the most despised group, and developers have a priority to the game as a whole well before a loud, yet small group of forum posters. If they went through all the work to implement, for example 2A, before they fixed and implemented a huge number of things in this game that are far more important to overall gameplay, I would quickly cancel. Not because i don't want the same things as you, but because it only shows that their priorities would be so out of whack this game would quickly deteriorate into something I would never want to touch. Its a game and an RPG, and the largest groups of people subscribing and playing are not going to be the loudest on the forums, but they will be the ones who quit when their unheard wishes don't come true in lieu of a few poorly implemented same sex story lines to sate the wishes of a minority group (who I don't see clamoring for new WZ's, or animation timing changes, or crafting changes, or innumerable bug fixes...) who are at this point asking for entirely new content from a team who is going to be banging their heads against the wall for a year after a fresh release just to get the current bugs and problems fixed. You want to be loud, and all you are going to be is polarizing. Edited February 27, 2012 by Noviru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 ^ Another person misunderstanding every single thing we are asking for, we demand nothing, we do not claim to be the most important, we want information on something they promised nearly half a year ago and have said nothing about since. Way too many of you are not reading anything properly and assuming everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenpsych Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Here is you in the Q&A thread, complaining that the largest crowd was not answered... "SGRA crowd, the biggest crowd in the last Q&A thread, has been ignored completely, again, I see." Thats passive aggressive, and exactly my point. I don't lack understanding of what you want, just how you choose to go about illustrating your wishes. And here's the response you should and will get everytime you ASK for information about something that must be developed. "TBA" or "TBD" Nothing more. Edited February 27, 2012 by sevenpsych Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't want it to be a matter of 'if'.... ...I want it to be a matter of 'when'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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