Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Suaine]

This is awesome and I've decided it's my new official theory for why they won't speak.

 

Also, can we make cool tin foil hats for our conspiracies? The plain skullcap type is so boring.

 

I think we should have little tinfoil umbrellas.

[MusedMoose]

Yeah, there is some wacky stuff out there about this. The stuff about the concerns about the ESRB changing the game's rating in particular are pretty crazy. There are a lot of bad things that can be said about the ESA (of which the ESRB is basically an arm), but they actually have a pretty good record on gay issues (they've done a lot of work with GLAAD to start anti-homophobia in gaming ad campaigns, just as an example).

That's really good to hear. I've heard about movies being given higher ratings by the MPAA for homosexual content - don't quote me, but I think it was something about a m/f kiss being PG but a m/m or f/f kiss being PG-13. That kind of double standard really sucks, and it's good to know that the ESRB won't go the same route. I'd be really upset if TOR had to get re-rated just because of homosexual content.

 

Having said how weak I think speculation is at this point. I have to speculate a little and say, I think it is hard not to read BW's current silence as an attempt to avoid inflaming the various family values groups that are currently boycotting EA becuase of SGR in TOR. They took a similar stance of keeping their heads down and hoping it will all blows over during the controversy over ME1 (something which got a lot more "old media" coverage than this so far has). That strategy worked then, but this isn't five years ago or a single player console game. I think BW will eventually realize that as an MMO they need to be more concerned with not alienating current subscribers, rather worrying about what Fox News might have to say on the subject.

That wouldn't surprise me too much. No business wants a ton of bad press (even if it's from closed-minded groups), especially with a new product. Considering that one 'family' group was trying to get BioWare not to implement SGRs just last month, I can see why BW might have decided to just stay quiet about this until it's ready to be put into the game.

 

But I agree that it's not the greatest decision, if that is what they decided. Press reactions, negative or positive, should not decide the flow of information for a game. And besides, while the addition of SGRs might make some people quit, it also might get some people interested in the game who weren't before. Just a thought.

 

This is awesome and I've decided it's my new official theory for why they won't speak.

Also, can we make cool tin foil hats for our conspiracies? The plain skullcap type is so boring.

Seconded on both counts.

[Suaine]

Clearing the questions from the thread for next week's Q&A or from the discussion thread for this past week's Q&A?

 

They removed it from the discussion thread, not the new Q&A thread. But, uh, that's still kind of annoying. I get pretty tired of this topic being singled out like that. Skimming through the last two pages there are a bunch of people discussing other unanswered questions, so that explanation is kind of a cop out.

 

This is literally the only topic that gets policed like this. And sure, some of it is protecting us, but a lot of it just makes me tired and angry. I appreciate the mods' work but I hate that this topic is treated differently.

[Uluain]

Also, can we make cool tin foil hats for our conspiracies? The plain skullcap type is so boring.

Of course we can! Skullcaps are so very John Paul II. For hats with real flair, I recommend this site for inspiration (Safe for work. Unless you work for die-hard antimonarchists). I am an HM Margrethe II of Denmark fan, myself.

 

Seriously, though, I think BioWare Austin is kind of stuck in a situation of their own making. Moose may have a point that the September Announcement was a generous gesture at the time, but it is no longer satisfactory because the situation has changed.

 

They are no longer addressing content of a game yet to be released with people we hope will want to play it. It is a dialogue (or, more to the point, the absence of one) regarding a currently live game, with people who may well not have been around for earlier discussions, and who are paying good money to play.

 

All well and good to be told, second hand by Community Support peeps, what was said five months ago. But I would rather hear for myself, now, what the Dev Team has in mind for same gender content and what they are doing about it. Not an unreasonable expectation.

 

No one can compel them to comment, and plainly they would rather not. But I think that reluctance is easily prone to misinterpretation - optimistically or pessimistically - because that is what happens when people have to guess.

 

"Wait and see" is not satisfactory when, really and truly, romantic content ought never have been implemented without same-gender content to begin with if BioWare Austin a.) wants this to be an attractive perk of the game (and they have pimped it awfully hard on FB lately) and b.) wish to be - or even be perceived as being - inclusive.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Uluain

[MusedMoose]

"Wait and see" is not satisfactory when, really and truly, romantic content ought never have been implemented without same-gender content to begin with if BioWare Austin a.) wants this to be an attractive perk of the game (and they have pimped it awfully hard on FB lately) and b.) wish to be - or even be perceived as being - inclusive.

I can't see the Facebook page because I didn't accept cookies from Facebook - I have some issues with how FB handles privacy, but that's neither here nor there. Can you give me a description or maybe get a screenshot of this? Because it seems strange that they'd be pimping the companion romances, and it's got me thinking.

 

Hold on, let me don my Wishful Thinking Hat - kind of the antithesis of the tinfoil skullcap, it's a tasteful fedora.

 

My moment of wishful thinking is that BioWare is trying to drum up more interest in the companion romances because they're soon to expand said romances. It would make a certain amount of sense. People expect companion romances not from MMOs, but definitely from BioWare games (going all the way back to Baldur's Gate II), so if BW is pushing this aspect of TOR, it could be a sign of more news to come.

 

Like I said, this is merely a hope on my part. But it seems unusual to me that they'd be talking about this a lot when it's not what usually draws people to MMOs. Time will tell.

[kharistos]

Well im a pretty optimistic person but all the silence is gnawing at my heart. You know im sorta tired of waiting and even a thing like we arent currently able to implement SGRAs would be a better answer then all this silence.

[kharistos]

The problem is that it isnt really all that hard to come in and tell us any scrap of information. How much time does that take?

 

The community in this thread is really not asking for too much. Even a minor scrap of information would be suffice, instead there is a glaring silence.

 

On a side note i really do hope SGRAs will be implemented for current companions, its just a case of more choice versus less.

[Cythereal]

I believe the term for the current state of affairs with SGRAs is a deafening silence.

[Uluain]

I can't see the Facebook page because I didn't accept cookies from Facebook - I have some issues with how FB handles privacy, but that's neither here nor there. Can you give me a description or maybe get a screenshot of this? Because it seems strange that they'd be pimping the companion romances, and it's got me thinking.

Nutshell is they ran a series of polls regarding favorite romanceable NPC, with the winner (who, incidentally, was Mako) featured in a special desktop image. Then, so no one would feel left out (HAH!) they released desktops of other companions as well. This was a days-long event. Pure fluff, but hitting the romance pretty hard, presumably for Valentine's Day.

 

I suggested a screenshot of the Dune Sea, with not a soul in sight or even so much as a shadow on the horizon as representative of the current degree of same-gender inclusiveness.

 

I can grab some screenshots if you care to see them, but that summary pretty much covers it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Paralassa
reponse to removed post

[DarthRamette]

Nutshell is they ran a series of polls regarding favorite romanceable NPC, with the winner (who, incidentally, was Mako) featured in a special desktop image. Then, so no one would feel left out (HAH!) they released desktops of other companions as well. This was a days-long event. Pure fluff, but hitting the romance pretty hard, presumably for Valentine's Day.

 

I suggested a screenshot of the Dune Sea, with not a soul in sight or even so much as a shadow on the horizon as representative of the current degree of same-gender inclusiveness.

 

I can grab some screenshots if you care to see them, but that summary pretty much covers it.

 

My original post asked for patience on this matter, that the game is only 3 months old and that they need to fix things that are broken in the game before adding this. How is that being over the line and going into a touchy area.?

Edited February 27, 2012 by Paralassa
response to removed content

[Ruliya]

I suggested a screenshot of the Dune Sea, with not a soul in sight or even so much as a shadow on the horizon as representative of the current degree of same-gender inclusiveness.

 

Maybe a shot of the endless frozen wastes of Hoth would of been better? To show that we've been left out in the proverbial cold in regards to answers?

[Nozybidaj]

My original post asked for patience on this matter, that the game is only 3 months old and that they need to fix things that are broken in the game before adding this. How is that being over the line and going into a touchy area.?

 

Do people actually not realize that the folks fixing broken stuff aren't the same people adding the new stuff (to put it simply). It's like BW can only ever work on 1 issue at a time.

[DarthRamette]

Do people actually not realize that the folks fixing broken stuff aren't the same people adding the new stuff (to put it simply). It's like BW can only ever work on 1 issue at a time.

 

Oh I know that, but it seems that when Bioware works on multiple things they tend to break more then they fix. Perhaps they have this ready but are not ready to implement it. What irked me was having posts removed for simply asking people to be patient and not rage quit over this. If that is offensive then I don't understand.

[Uluain]

"Ragequit" is a pejorative term, which minimalizes and condescends to players who have chosen to cancel or not to renew their subscription to a game which does not support their play style.

 

This is hardly the only issue over which people are leaving the game and by and large their exits are less dramatic than those you can see announced daily in General Discussion or the Suggestion box.

 

Where is your condemnation of those cancellations? Where is your call to people to be patient for sittable chairs, or character recustomization? What makes same-gender content the sole game issue for which you feel it necessary to visit the single thread dedicated to that content to tell people their concerns are unreasonable?

 

Do these points clarify why your participation in this thread, and means of expressing it, have not been well recieved? I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am trying to give you the perspective of those who have been keeping this thread moving forward over the past month plus.

[Nozybidaj]

Oh I know that, but it seems that when Bioware works on multiple things they tend to break more then they fix. Perhaps they have this ready but are not ready to implement it. What irked me was having posts removed for simply asking people to be patient and not rage quit over this. If that is offensive then I don't understand.

 

Edit: Uluain said it better than I did.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[hurriedcorgi]

"Ragequit" is a pejorative term, which minimalizes and condescends to players who have chosen to cancel or not to renew their subscription to a game which does not support their play style.

 

This is hardly the only issue over which people are leaving the game and by and large their exits are less dramatic than those you can see announced daily in General Discussion or the Suggestion box.

 

Where is your condemnation of those cancellations? Where is your call to people to be patient for sittable chairs, or character recustomization? What makes same-gender content the sole game issue for which you feel it necessary to visit the single thread dedicated to that content to tell people their concerns are unreasonable?

 

Do these points clarify why your participation in this thread, and means of expressing it, have not been well recieved? I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am trying to give you the perspective of those who have been keeping this thread moving forward over the past month plus.

 

You're right - no one calls for patience in the other threads. Only same gender relationships; personally, I think they are being marginalized in the name of other game play issues.

Edited February 27, 2012 by hurriedcorgi

[EvanSnowWolf]

You're right - no one calls for patience in the other threads. Only same gender relationships; personally, I think they are being marginalized in the name of other game play issues.

 

Uh.. yeah, you're right. They don't tell the people complaining about others threads to be patient. They flat out tell them to shut up. Bioware has been EXCEEDINGLY nice to this community in that respect. Any comment telling anyone in this thread to shut up would be deleted in the span of time it takes to get a glass of milk from my fridge.

 

Sorry, but this argument doesn't hold. The amount of negativity allowed here is borderline zero. Compared to what I saw going on in a thread about nerfing Sorcerers this morning, this place is a paradise of harmony.

[losdia]

You're right - no one calls for patience in the other threads. Only same gender relationships; personally, I think they are being marginalized in the name of other game play issues.

 

One of the real problems with how people talk about this is that a lot of people seem to view SGR as something like custom ship interiors. They see it as a purely cosmetic "Role Players" issue. The story is a huge part of what sets TOR apart as an MMO, and the companions are a big part of the story. Companion story arcs make up a big chunk of mid-game content, and while your exploring those stories Romance is really pushed by a few characters. Also it is something that adds a lot more content. You can play the game without romance, but there is a limit to how much you can explore of companions stories without it. I can't believe more power gamers aren't in favor of SGR on existing companions just on the grounds that it would open up about half a dozen new quests for their characters.

[EvanSnowWolf]

I can't believe more power gamers aren't in favor of SGR on existing companions just on the grounds that it would open up about half a dozen new quests for their characters.

 

At this point I don't think it is the player base. The number of people I've seen that flat out refuse to have it in the game are incredibly small. Assuming it is true (and I don't), that the SGRA crowd is less than 10% of the player base, then the true anti-group is less than 10% of even that number.

 

This is pretty much completely on Bioware's end. The l337 PvP guy in full Battlemaster screaming at Huttball? I seriously doubt he could possible care less if two lesbians are engaged in a conversation he can't even see aboard a ship he can't get on.

[Uluain]

You're right - no one calls for patience in the other threads. Only same gender relationships; personally, I think they are being marginalized in the name of other game play issues.

You misunderstand me - I am addressing that particular poster, and how she has chosen to present herself here. I don't dispute that other issues have their detractors. I only point out that those who come here to object generally have same-gender content as their sole point of objection, and tend to ignore any points actually under discussion in the thread, instead proceeding from an assumption of motives and purposes which is not only inaccurate but actually offensive.

 

Many people have posted in this thread who want clarification on how same-gender content is to be implemented, as this has bearing on how they want to approach the game at present. If same-gender romances will only be available to companions encountered after level 50, then players know that they may as well level the classes they want to play. If, however, current companions are also given same-gender content (a possibilty yet to be determined last September, which is the most recent information available), then they wish to wait on the opportunity to romance a particular companion which might be missed by levelling that class now.

 

That is just one example out of the many provided throughout this thread here, and in its two prior versions. It ought not to be necessary to summarize all of these in order to satisfy the walk-in detractor that this issue is a legitimate concern for no small number of players. Given the limited scope permitted on these forums to discuss these concerns (same gender content has two threads - that's it), I don't think it is too much to expect some courtesy in familiarizing oneself with the topics under discussion before leaping in with a tangental objection to ideas neither held nor espoused by those posting here.

[Kioma]

At this point I don't think it is the player base. The number of people I've seen that flat out refuse to have it in the game are incredibly small. Assuming it is true (and I don't), that the SGRA crowd is less than 10% of the player base, then the true anti-group is less than 10% of even that number.

 

This is pretty much completely on Bioware's end. The l337 PvP guy in full Battlemaster screaming at Huttball? I seriously doubt he could possible care less if two lesbians are engaged in a conversation he can't even see aboard a ship he can't get on.

 

I truly believe most players don't care if SGRA is in or not. I don't believe people who claim 'the majority don't want this', not for a second.

[EvanSnowWolf]

But after slightly more than five months we're still here....

 

I keep hearing this over and over and over again, but to be fair... it hasn't been five months. They said it would be a post launch feature, and launch was December 13th for EGA. So, its actually been less than 90 days. I know that sounds like nitpicking, but hearing this 5 month thing ad nauseum is really bordering on hyperbole. Worded that way, it makes it sound like it was promised IMPLEMENTATION 5 months ago and that is not true.

[Kioma]

I keep hearing this over and over and over again, but to be fair... it hasn't been five months. They said it would be a post launch feature, and launch was December 13th for EGA. So, its actually been less than 90 days. I know that sounds like nitpicking, but hearing this 5 month thing ad nauseum is really bordering on hyperbole. Worded that way, it makes it sound like it was promised IMPLEMENTATION 5 months ago and that is not true.

 

Evan, yes, you're right about that but wrong about something else: this thread is a request for discourse, not necessarily implementation. They haven't released any more information about the matter and that's the biggest thing this thread is about.

 

Of course we want it implemented but we're already aware they're going to (at some point). It's the lack of discussion this thread is primarily aimed at.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Evan, yes, you're right about that but wrong about something else: this thread is a request for discourse, not necessarily implementation. They haven't released any more information about the matter and that's the biggest thing this thread is about.

 

Of course we want it implemented but we're already aware they're going to (at some point). It's the lack of discussion this thread is primarily aimed at.

 

I'm not a computer programmer, and my last computer class involved Hypercard on an AppleIIe, but I don't think it would kill someone to come in here in bright yellow text and say "THIS IS HOW FAR WE'VE COME ON IT." If they were trying some big "We got it all done at once, suprise!" I don't think it is worth the current stress.

[MajikMyst]

I rather resent that. I haven't been doing anything of the sort. Thank you for making a blanket statement that covers every pro-SGRA poster in this thread regardless of actual individual activity, very kind of you.

 

That wasn't directed at anyone specific so please do not take offense.. I am refering the hijacking of the Feb 24th Q&A blog response thread.. The 2nd post in the thread was a rant about how many gold stars something has and how Bioware didn't answer the same sex issue.. It didn't end their and people were not allowed to talk about much of anything else..

 

Again, this was not directed at anyone.. Just in the general terms..