Same gender relationships clarifications?

[MajikMyst]

There are far, far too many reasons why giving us an update - or even just openly acknowledging our concerns - would be of enormous benefit.

 

The problem is.. Nobody should have any concerns at this point.. We don't have enough info to even be concerned about anything..

 

Really, all we should be concerned about is simply the 'If' which has already been answered.. We know that same sex flirting will be added.. The only other thing is really the 'When'.. I am sure they don't know the when either..

 

As for the how??

 

Sure we can give them ideas and input as things we would like to see happen.. But they make the final decision and they are the ones that actually have to do it.. The 'How' in many ways is meaningless to us..

 

You cay they are going to alter existing companions?? They may or may not.. We don't need to know that until it is actually done and about to be released.. Or at the very least give a teaser of things to come in the game.. They have done that before.. Again it falls to the 'When'..

 

But in the end, there is nothing we should be concerned about.. We know it is going to added.. It may not be added on our time schedules.. Like a million other things in life.. It is what it is..

[Raiellyn]

Ok.. Let me qualify.. I grew up with the original movies.. I was 9 years old when I first saw Star Wars on May 25, 1977.. The closest we got to romance in the original 3 movies was Han Solo screaming 'You can use a good kiss!' inside Echo base on Hoth.. 'Scruffy looking Nerf herder' was a close 2nd of most romantic lines of Star Wars trilogy..

 

Han being froze in carbonite? That is the decisive scene on Han Solo's sexiness. Whenever I see a discussion about Han Solo's romance, the line always comes up. While I may have zero interest in that end of the gender-pool, even *I* get shivers at it (being the hopeless romantic I am. )

 

Leia: "I love you!"

Han: "I know."

 

Notice he didn't say it back. If he had, that would have "mellowed" his bad-boy cred. Those are just two lines in the entire trilogy. And they change an entire relationship. See the parallel?

 

Romance has always been a part of Star Wars. Whereas in the prequels it drives the plot, in the originals, it is persistently moving in the background. You don't get three thousand scenes of them making lovey-dovey eyes at eachother. You get short, meaningful scenes that get to the point and let bigger events overshadow them.

 

Likewise, the in-game scenes are few and short, but they pack more meaning in than some of the planet story-lines. Why do I care about Taris as a smuggler again? Meanwhile,

 

 

choosing between Jorgen and my imaginary-romance Dorne for who to be my lieutenant as a Trooper? *That* hits home. Do I promote Jorgen, who has better field-experience as an officer and lost his rank wrongfully? Or do I choose Dorne, risking preferential treatment?

 

 

For a game whose only real selling point is making choices in a grand story, it really fails at this aspect with me. I don't get a choice here. I get to be straight, or lonely. It's a bit like being forced to either play Jedi Knight or quit the game. It's not a choice; it's a restriction.

 

(DISCLAIMER; read your other posts, and find myself mostly agreeing with you. Just saw that bit about romance in the OT, and went off that tangent on a rant. Don't take this as an attack or anything.)

Edited February 27, 2012 by Raiellyn

[MajikMyst]

And if they think I'm going to spend more money for a chance to experience an aspect of the game in a year or two that others are experiencing now, they are mistaken.

 

Hell, I would resent paying credits in-game to unlock same-gender content.

 

If that's the way they choose to go with this content, then it's too bad, but they'll be doing it without me.

 

That is of course your choice.. You have every right.. Like I said.. It is all speculation..

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenReid

Official statement follows:

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

That is the sentence that gives me fits.. It is almost like deciphering some ancient text or something..

 

Theoritically speaking.. They could give us the new companions by simply doing a quest chain.. I seriously doubt they are just going appear on our ships unannounced.. Wich something as big as a new companion.. I would disappointed if it was just a simple quest chain to unlock it.. I would like it to be more story driven like all the others were.. Which most likely means when they add the next chapter to our stories.. In an expansion..

 

But again.. It is hard to say what is exectly being said in that statement.. I read it to say as when new expansions are added.. The word expansion is being used.. It talks about new companions.. With additional romance options..

 

Again me, that also says they aren't going to change the current ones..

 

This is all speculation and may be proven as being wrong in the future.. I can only go by the statement above..

[Kioma]

The problem is.. Nobody should have any concerns at this point.. We don't have enough info to even be concerned about anything..

 

Really, all we should be concerned about is simply the 'If' which has already been answered.. We know that same sex flirting will be added.. The only other thing is really the 'When'.. I am sure they don't know the when either..

 

Only each individual can decide for their own self what they 'should' be concerned about.

 

The 'how' can greatly affect whether people decide to stick around for it or not.

 

For me one of the most vital things is that they've welcomed us discussing this, and told us all feedback and suggestions reach the right place. If we're to give actually useful feedback, rather than paddling around in the same circle day after day arguing about something they've already (potentially) made a ruling on, then we need more information. And the only source of information, in this case, is the developers.

[MajikMyst]

Han being froze in carbonite? That is the decisive scene on Han Solo's sexiness. Whenever I see a discussion about Han Solo's romance, the line always comes up. While I may have zero interest in that end of the gender-pool, even *I* get shivers at it (being the hopeless romantic I am. )

 

Leia: "I love you!"

Han: "I know."

 

Yes yes.. I know.. I was trying to be funny.. Those lines are reversed on Endor..

 

Han: 'I love you!'

Lea: 'I know.'

 

Then she shoots a couple of troopers in the face..

 

But those examples are hardly romantic though.. He gets frozen and she shoots a couple troopers..

 

You would probably be closer with 'Into the garbage shoot fly boy!'.. Now there is a line!!

[Raiellyn]

But again.. It is hard to say what is exectly being said in that statement.. I read it to say as when new expansions are added.. The word expansion is being used.. It talks about new companions.. With additional romance options..

 

Again me, that also says they aren't going to change the current ones..

 

This is all speculation and may be proven as being wrong in the future.. I can only go by the statement above..

 

That quote from Reid really is a marvel of double-talk. "Content expansion" is not the same as "expansion pack." The former can be used as a general catch-all term while the latter refers to specific methods of extending play. Patches are content expansions, because they expand content. So it could be a patch. Or could be a pack. Both expand content.

 

And on the current ones, hasn't Reid also stated that our current cast of companions is still "on the table"? The very definition of a non-answer. It allows the possibility, but gives us no actual information. See the pattern?

 

This is why it is so frustrating. LGBT gamers have like five total quotes, with three pointing back to the first and one essentially shrugging its shoulders coyly like the tease it is.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Raiellyn

[Raiellyn]

You would probably be closer with 'Into the garbage shoot fly boy!'.. Now there is a line!!

 

As a romantic line?

 

Implications... unpleasant.

*cough*

[MajikMyst]

Only each individual can decide for their own self what they 'should' be concerned about.

 

The 'how' can greatly affect whether people decide to stick around for it or not.

 

For me one of the most vital things is that they've welcomed us discussing this, and told us all feedback and suggestions reach the right place. If we're to give actually useful feedback, rather than paddling around in the same circle day after day arguing about something they've already (potentially) made a ruling on, then we need more information. And the only source of information, in this case, is the developers.

 

Sadly if people leave then that is their choice.. People have to make that decision on their own..

 

I see nothing wrong with simply waiting.. It isn't going to kill anyone to wait.. If the only reason someone bought this game was for the flirting options and they can't tolerate the current schedule?? Perhaps they bought the game for the wrong reasons.. I certianly didn't buy this game to flirt.. It is nifty that it is there, but not at all needed..

 

The only ruling we know of for certian is that they will be addind same sex flirting.. That is all we really need to know.. I don't know why people continue to paddle around in the same circle day after day arguing about something we already know.. I honestly have no clue..

 

I would like to see some ideas, and things that bioware can actually use..

[Uluain]

Really, all we should be concerned about is simply the 'If' which has already been answered.. We know that same sex flirting will be added..

No. We DON'T.

 

We know that same-gender companion character romance will be added.

 

That says nothing about the far more prevalent and frequently encountered options to [Flirt] - which are another matter people are requesting clarification on because nothing has been said.

 

That is of course your choice.. You have every right.. Like I said.. It is all speculation..

 

That is the sentence that gives me fits.. It is almost like deciphering some ancient text or something..

 

Theoritically speaking.. They could give us the new companions by simply doing a quest chain.. I seriously doubt they are just going appear on our ships unannounced.. Wich something as big as a new companion.. I would disappointed if it was just a simple quest chain to unlock it.. I would like it to be more story driven like all the others were.. Which most likely means when they add the next chapter to our stories.. In an expansion..

 

But again.. It is hard to say what is exectly being said in that statement..

Which is why we are wanting clarification. Because it is ambiguous.

 

No, of course they can't and won't tell us everything. But having opted to make same-gender affection second class, they could soften the blow a bit by sharing some of the development process - as they did with countless aspects of game design that still can be read in the Developer Blogs from pre-launch (unlike the thread in which the notorious September Announcement appeared).

 

We are going to have to be patient for this content in any case. That is neither right nor fair, but those are the breaks. The content will come when it comes.

 

But they could discuss it now. That would be something. Which is more than what we have, which is nothing.

[MajikMyst]

That quote from Reid really is a marvel of double-talk. "Content expansion" is not the same as "expansion pack." The former can be used as a general catch-all term while the latter refers to specific methods of extending play. Patches are content expansions, because they expand content. So it could be a patch. Or could be a pack. Both expand content.

 

And on the current ones, hasn't Reid also stated that our current cast of companions is still "on the table"? The very definition of a non-answer. It allows the possibility, but gives us no actual information. See the pattern?

 

This is why it is so frustrating. LGBT gamers have like five total quotes, with three pointing back to the first and one essentially shrugging its shoulders coyly like the tease it is.

 

Oh I hear you.. But it should also go to show that Bioware doesn't know either.. So while many of us are here frustrated and don't understand what is going on.. It could just be a matter of, they don't know what is going on either.. So there is really nothing they can tell us that wouldn't confuse us more.. Which brings me back to simply being patient and waiting.. Which is all I have ever said..

 

We know that at some point it will be added.. Why can't we discuss how we would like it to be added, instead of pouring over every line of text from Bioware as if it is gospel, in hopes figuring out what it is do or do not know..

 

I just feel that we need to focus on helping the issue.. Giving Bioware something to work with.. That is all I am saying..

[Raiellyn]

We know that at some point it will be added.. Why can't we discuss how we would like it to be added, instead of pouring over every line of text from Bioware as if it is gospel, in hopes figuring out what it is do or do not know..

 

This is the thread's third namesake. We have gone through nearly every issue that comes to mind, without being too specific and therefore largely useless.

 

And we have exactly the same amount of info as when it began.

 

 

We're running out of things to discuss, essentially.

[MajikMyst]

As a romantic line?

 

Implications... unpleasant.

*cough*

 

Hey!! I am happily married to my wife of 13 years.. You learn to make anything romantic.. Is is the only way to keep life interesting..

[MajikMyst]

This is the thread's third namesake. We have gone through nearly every issue that comes to mind, without being too specific and therefore largely useless.

 

And we have exactly the same amount of info as when it began.

 

 

We're running out of things to discuss, essentially.

 

So what exactly do people want to know??

 

I thought the issue was same sex romance with companions?? Now the issue is also the random flirting that happens in the game?? Does that matter?? If so why??

[Suaine]

Chasing our own tails, that's what a discussion thread feels like when there is no new outside information.

 

I brought this up in the SG flirt thread, but maybe here it'll be of more use. In the absence of dev information, I'd like to know more about how flirting is currently coded into the game. We know so little about how it works - do non-class NPCs have class-specific reactions to flirts? Is a Smuggler more likely to get a fade to black than a Consular? Do the same flirt prompts even show up for different classes? Obviously class npcs only need to be coded for gender, but then how does it work if you play class quests with someone of a different class (or gender!) - if they play with a Smuggler do they get drawn into, for example, the rather uncomfortable conversation with Azalie or the nobles on Alderaan?

 

SGRAs are coming, but will they fix the assumption inherent in the current conversation mechanics that, at every turn, my Smuggler is not just straight but literally assumed to be flirting with every girl he sees? I've never once chosen a flirt option with Akaavi, for example, but when faced with one of her companion convos that asks my romantic intentions, I get the options "yes", "yes" and "can't a guy flirt without someone assuming he's into chicks with horns". None of those options allow for my character to be gay, not even closeted. He is either straight and interested, or straight and a jerk.

 

Even if they add new companions with "additional romance options", it's a minefield of exclusion to wade through before that. The only way this is going to work for me is if there is attention paid to content already in the game. People are crying out all over this forum that this needs to be fixed and that doesn't work as it should. Well, romance needs to be fixed, it doesn't work as it should.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Suaine
clarity/typos

[Suaine]

So what exactly do people want to know??

 

I thought the issue was same sex romance with companions?? Now the issue is also the random flirting that happens in the game?? Does that matter?? If so why??

 

Why? Because the romance with companions mostly defines their character. The flirt options mostly define our character.

[Uluain]

"Gospel" specifically denotes good news.

 

Of course BioWare Austin knows more than they have told us. They are the ones who know how the game is made, and what is involved in implementing content. They are the ones who write the dialog and hire the actors to record it. They know whether or not this is happening. Or else their business is in complete chaos and will be lucky to last another month.

 

We would very much like to focus on constructive comments. Which is precisely why we would benefit from information. Is discussion along the lines of Point A going to be useful, or is it irrelevant given how they are approaching things? Kioma already said this, but it seems it wasn't heard.

 

We aren't unruly children who don't understand why we can't have the goodies on the grocery store shelf now. We pore over what slim information we have (a small parcel of remarks beyond the September Announcement) to try to fill in what blanks we can.

 

Otherwise, all we can do is let BioWare hear what we want (content for current companions) and what we don't want (waiting for an expansion pack that includes one companion per faction which is romanceable by the same gender - as soon as you reach the next level cap! That would, after all, fulfil the promise in all particulars).

 

Part of that is stating what our deal-breakers are. Negative? Yes. Constructive? If BioWare is smart, quite possibly.

 

And since when did it become "we", anyhow?

[Uluain]

I thought the issue was same sex romance with companions?? Now the issue is also the random flirting that happens in the game?? Does that matter?? If so why??

Why is opposite-gender flirting in the game?

 

Why, in 2012, need there be any more reason to include same-gender content?

[mrcaptainpants]

The problem is.. Nobody should have any concerns at this point..

 

For my part, I happen to agree with you in that I am not concerned about whether or not SGRA's will be in the game. But to make a blanket statement that nobody should have any concerns is, I think, going a bit too far. You may feel free to not share other people's concerns, but I don't think you should be telling them that they shouldn't have them. The fact is, they do have them.

 

What concerns me is why the Devs and Community Team members are capable of posting in other threads about other concerns without having every single last little detail, but not this one.

 

Part of my frustration is that some people seem to be acting as though we are asking for either:

 

A) Instant implementation of SGRA's'

 

or

 

B) Complete details of how absolutely everything will be implemented and on what exact date.

 

 

Neither of these are true. And Bioware continues to stick its fingers in its ears as the people in this thread that love this game and want to support it begin giving up and moving on. By the time they're ready to puff out their chests and proudly announce "Look what we have for you guys!", how many will be left to care?

Edited February 27, 2012 by mrcaptainpants

[MajikMyst]

Why is opposite-gender flirting in the game?

 

Why, in 2012, need there be any more reason to include same-gender content?

 

I don't know to both and don't care to either..

 

I never asked for flirting to be added.. I still don't see the need in it..

 

We all know that they will add it.. I just don't see what the further issue is.. That is what I am asking.. Why can't we move on and discuss other things??

 

Like how it might be added.. How we would like to see it added.. What types of characters we might like to see..

 

I think for Bioware it is going to be easier to simply create new companions than to go through and edit the existing ones.. As for the flirt issue, that can easily be solved buy just adding additional flirt options to conversations..

[MajikMyst]

For my part, I happen to agree with you in that I am not concerned about whether or not SGRA's will be in the game. But to make a blanket statement that nobody should have any concerns is, I think, going a bit too far. You may feel free to not share other people's concerns, but I don't think you should be telling them that they shouldn't have them. The fact is, they do have them.

 

You very much took what I said out of context.. I never said that nobody should have any concerns..

 

Stating that people already have all the information they can have and shouldn't currently have any concerns is completely accurate.. We shouldn't have any concerns.. We know all there is to know at this point in time.. We should be happily discussing the how we would like it done and the who we would like to see.. Not worrying about questions that can't be answered at this point or things that even Bioware does not know..

 

I'm sorry.. I made no blanket remark that nobody should have any concerns.. Could please not take my statements out of context.. Thanks..

Edited February 27, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Kioma]

Like how it might be added.. How we would like to see it added.. What types of characters we might like to see..

 

What..? 'How will it be added?' is one of the primary things we discuss in this thread. o.O We want more information, yes, but we're still discussing how we'd like to see it done. We're not asking 'if'. We know it's coming.

[Uluain]

We all know that they will add it..

NO, WE DON'T, because BW ain't talking about it. "It" being same-gender [Flirt]s beyond companion romances. Which, if one espouses a stance of being "all for equality", obviously follows if BioWare wishes to be inclusive in fact, rather than in token.

 

If it's to be in token, better for everyone if it is just left out. I prefer honesty.

 

I just don't see what the further issue is.. That is what I am asking..

Then go back and read. Because we have been explaining all night.

 

I gotta say, getting us to talk in circles must be amusing for you, but pretending to care about an issue you obviously have no interest in is starting to look a little flimsy.

 

Especially when you ignore very good answers to your questions.

 

We've been discussing just such further issues here for the past six weeks. Nice of you to suddenly care after being all annoyed by us bringing the matter up in the Q&A thread, but you'd do better to go back to the first post of the first version of this thread and get up to speed, if you have any actual interest.

 

If you are here to troll, carry on. You are doing a stellar job. Are you in marketing?

Edited February 27, 2012 by Uluain

[mrcaptainpants]

I'm sorry.. I made no blanket remark that nobody should have any concerns.. Could please not take my statements out of context.. Thanks..

 

I seriously wasn't intentionally misrepresenting what you were saying. That is the way that it sounded to me.

 

For what its worth, I'm happy to hear that I simply misunderstood you.

[MajikMyst]

What..? 'How will it be added?' is one of the primary things we discuss in this thread. o.O We want more information, yes, but we're still discussing how we'd like to see it done. We're not asking 'if'. We know it's coming.

 

I'm sorry.. I have been in this thread for a good number of pages.. I have not seen a single idea put forth about how it should be done.. What personalities or companions should have?? As you said in your ealier post.. We are paddling around in circles arguing about stuff.. Not exact words but close..

 

I would love to participate in a discussion about what could be done.. New characters that might or might not be added.. What changes we would like to see to existing companions?? Is Coroso going to stay a simple redneck?? Is Doc going to stay stuck up and full of himself?? What about Kira?? She seems like a teenager to me.. All the 'Tough guy' comments and of course on planet 'Have you seen what the sith are wearing? It is if all the fashion designers went to the dark side.' comment..

 

What personality changes if any are the existing companions going to need.. Are there options to perhaps opening up other companions for romance?? If so who??

 

I wish those converations took place here.. Those are the ones I am interested in having..

Edited February 27, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

I seriously wasn't intentionally misrepresenting what you were saying. That is the way that it sounded to me.

 

For what its worth, I'm happy to hear that I simply misunderstood you.

 

No worries.. I am glad it is all worked out..