Healers unbeatable solo

[JiUasp]

You are all posting in a troll thread.

 

Says a poster!

[Jesmcalli]

I don't think it's heals that are OP per se, but the combination of guard + heals that is OP. A two man team of a tank + healer is nigh immortal. Can't CC/silence the healer long enough to kill the tank, and with guard up + heals, you can't kill the healer either.

[Zalgred]

I am a healer, and i am honest when i said this: Healers should get a debuff for melee attacks if they use heals, like -75% outgoing damage for the next 10 to 15 seconds (only on pvp areas), and if they use offensive skill they should get a debuff for heals, same as before -75% outgoing heal.

 

This way healers will have to choose a role in pvp... i am sick and tired of seeing how sorceress, sages, commandos, etc. (specially sorceress that everyone knows they are overpowered) can do a **** ton of damage and still be able to heal themselves if attacked.

 

We need to stop this now, like other games have also done.

 

This i something i want to see only in pvp, cause in pve it has no impact if you can heal and dps at the same time, and implementing it will affect the solo experience this game offers.

 

I came from lotro and the same thing happened there with minstrels (healer class). They were able to dps like crazy and if needed the simple drop the attack stance and started healing without a problem. In this game they added the system i state in this post and the game was once more balanced.

[MariusZane]

Pfft, a oprerative/scoundrel healer in equal gear is way better. You have 2 HoT's 1 of the AoE, 2 instant heals where 1 removes some negative effects. No need to channel, have cast-times or any of that jibberish. Cant be interrupted except in a way, with stuns. Which just gives 1 of the HoT's time to gather Upper Hand so you can rapid heal after the stun.

IMO, beats a sorc healer any day in PvP. Sorcs/Sages are overrated.

Edited February 22, 2012 by MariusZane

[Brittaany_Banks]

i am a healer, and i am honest when i said this: Healers should get a debuff for melee attacks if they use heals, like -75% outgoing damage for the next 10 to 15 seconds (only on pvp areas), and if they use offensive skill they should get a debuff for heals, same as before -75% outgoing heal.

 

This way healers will have to choose a role in pvp... I am sick and tired of seeing how sorceress, sages, commandos, etc. (specially sorceress that everyone knows they are overpowered) can do a **** ton of damage and still be able to heal themselves if attacked.

 

We need to stop this now, like other games have also done.

 

This i something i want to see only in pvp, cause in pve it has no impact if you can heal and dps at the same time, and implementing it will affect the solo experience this game offers.

 

I came from lotro and the same thing happened there with minstrels (healer class). They were able to dps like crazy and if needed the simple drop the attack stance and started healing without a problem. In this game they added the system i state in this post and the game was once more balanced.

 

healers already get a -30% debuff when engaged in pvp combat. How are you mouth breathers not figuring this out?

[theoleon]

In addition to Healers please nerf Hazard terrain! I tried to CC it and it just shrugged it off like ***. I was all BOooooYAH terrain *** interrupt and and it was like FU bish you still fell 1000 feet. That's just OP! BW if this isn't resolved I will quit and so will the 23405972349056712389047 people in my guild. Obviously BW favors the terrain class by giving them such huge AOEs and making them basically immune to damage! Interrupt doesn't wokl, how can you interrupt lava you say? Well that's not my problem. BW needs to figure that out!

 

 

 

NERF TERRAIN DMG!!!!!!!11one!!!1

[Bushranger]

don't feed the troll!!!

[AlonzoOdantis]

this thread is a perfect example to bioware of why you shouldn't listen to people who whine on the forums about thigns being OP.

 

 

It is clear that this thread was started by someone that is new to pvp, has no concept on how to fight a healer, so instead of learning took to the keyboard.

 

Learn to interrupt, the fact that you think it doesn't work tells me you're in need of lessons.

 

Learn to disrupt when your interrupt is down.

 

It's a gear game, if you're wanting to compare someone in full bm/rakata then you better be in full bm rakata yourself. Otherwise, go get better gear.

 

Check your spec, maybe it's just your spec (that you probably got from a guide online) that is so weak against healers. It is possible to screw yourself against a certain class. For instance, try playing as a full spec healer and killing a decent marauder that knows how to do the above and has the same gear/consumables. You may be able to stay alive, but you certainly' won't be killing them anytime soon.

 

pvp is not balanced for 1v1 in this game, it is balanced for groups.

 

 

 

 

 

tl;dr: "l2p"

[rgizzie]

Currently healers are simply unbeatable as a solo melee class.... MIANLY sages/sorcers that have that channeled heal that gives ridiculous amounts of health back, can knockback, bubble and 10 other defensive ways

 

The damage we do on healers is outhealed easily for specced healers and you can barely put them under 40% before losing your own powerpool if you are not a force user with 500 force or focus mechanic...

 

Their damage might be weak but they are immortal since sages cant die from your damage and have a lot of force to use compared to the limited powerpool classes like (assassin,op,bounty,sniper etc)... If you manage your powerpool well then you cannot do enough damage since they can outheal it in a second and have more time to do damage on you since oyu cant heal HAHA....

 

They can also even use consumables and be even more immortal than usual...

 

interrupt doesnt help since you may stop the good channeled heal but they are just going to spam their other 2-3 heals for slightly weaker effect and still survive AND USE THE CHANELED HEAL IN 4 SECONDS while you cant interrupt them....

 

Stuns or cc make them even more godlike since they can pull of a high heal if you have already used your cc breaker in the first attempt to cc>heal...

 

 

In short, healing needs to be reduced in this game to balance things out...

 

But are they killing you while they are healing? If not the game works as it should

[Slackfumasta]

healer = dead in about 12 gcds max, if they are really good at kiting and have every defensive skill up, and are mercs/commandos

 

This.

 

Against a merc/commando, you will win. You might not burst them down because they have tools to counter that, but once those tools are used, they can't keep themselves healed longer than you can dps them, and they sure as hell can't do enough damage to you to kill you.

 

Sages/Sorcs are another story - not only can they keep themselves healed, they can kite you, dot you, and use lightning/pebbles to kill you while not breaking a sweat, and you will die.

 

Op/Scoundrel healer? Better hope there's no pillar around to hump.

[SWImara]

This.

 

Against a merc/commando, you will win. You might not burst them down because they have tools to counter that, but once those tools are used, they can't keep themselves healed longer than you can dps them, and they sure as hell can't do enough damage to you to kill you.

 

Sages/Sorcs are another story - not only can they keep themselves healed, they can kite you, dot you, and use lightning/pebbles to kill you while not breaking a sweat, and you will die.

 

Op/Scoundrel healer? Better hope there's no pillar around to hump.

Sage Sorceror healing absurdity (in PvP and PvE) is one of the things slated to be addressed in 1.2. I don't play one so I don't understand the specifics of the mechanic that is not working as intended, but they are not supposed to be as much better than the other healers as they presently are.

[LoL-K-Noob]

Learn to play issue. Sage/Sorc healers are the easiest to kill solo.

[Slackfumasta]

Learn to play issue. Sage/Sorc healers are the easiest to kill solo.

 

I suppose for some class/spec combos that may be true. It definitely isn't the case for mercs/commandos.

[GrandMasterDarth]

While i can eventually kill Bh/Comando healers after they wasted their cooldowns(tho i have met some really good players i couldn`t kill in like 25s or so and after that they got help), i have big issues with Sages/Sorcs and Scoundrels/Operatives as a shadow.

 

Scoundrels/operatives just run arround healing everyone with me chasing them giggling when they get a proc of upperhard/tactica adv. like a bad comedy show.... and if i do somehow get crits and manage to drop them, they cc me and by the time it`s over they are fully healed...

 

Sorcs can do the same, their shield will be up and it`s like 4k more hp for them every 20 seconds, while they slow me/use force speed to get range then they use their channeled ability to slow me some more while doing very good damage to me for a healer... hard to say with no combat log but i`d bet that`s close to the damage a DPS class does...

 

I still think it`s wrong it takes more damage to kill a healer while he is healing himself compared to the damage it takes to kill a tank.... and much more time...

 

Yes if you focus down the healer he goes down like 3 seconds faster than the tank, but if there are only 1-2 people on it, he will be up for a very long time compared to a tank.... especially if the 2 players on him are not pure dps, and not everyone in a warzone is pure dps...

[GrandMasterDarth]

Brb thinking you should be able to solo a healer in the first place. Stupidity knows no bounds on this forum.

 

Also, it's easy to solo healers who aren't very competent. As for the competent ones, you shouldn't be able to solo them in the first place. This is about group PvP, quit being an idiot.

 

Well then mate, let`s make it so every class gets enough self healing so healers can`t solo them either, it`s stupid how a very good healer can solo ANY dps/tank class in a 1v1, yes i said any...

 

You don`t think that`s a bit too much? Where does it say healers can only be killed by an army?

 

In a game where you need to HOLD points, that`s very OP...

[Dezeit]

Just a tip in a WZ, when you see a healer flag them.

 

Stick that nice big symbol above their heads and shout healer marked.

If people can quickly identify a healer then they are going down fast.

[ScipioAemilianus]

just my thoughts and observations here.

 

sages are not that hard, yeah it takes some work. I have seen an influx of troopers which 2 of us were putting every bit of dps we had on him and he actually started to dance while doing his heals. Then his 2 friends showed up and that was that.

 

before the l2p and learn interups, the issue with the heals, along with many problems in pvp is that most games have inturps, however when you use these yes they do stop the chanelesd ability that is being activated, but they can then start that ability as if it didn't happen. the interupt has a cool down.

 

while I'm not siting any specific game, most have it wher eif you are interupted that school or skill line of abilities is not accessable for 8-10 secs (thats a gues, but it means you can't use a line for a bit) As is the current system the interups are useful fo r2 interups, maybe 3 but the resolve kicks in on one of the abilities and the end result is that they just keep spaming hte heals like it was not much of an annoyance.

 

Its not just with heals that this is happening, but the skill in pvp has always been the management of cds along with the target choosing and teamwork. Thi I think personally if implimented with this game would solve many problems, ie cc spaming, chain heals, the list goes on. While you can flame me all you want, most games that have that global cd as well as the interupts working uner this system don't seem to have the issues with the pvp that we have here. You can't argue with success. The other point is the sr. pvp person in bw was brought from war hammer. . .how did that work out? I'm not bashing BW, but you won't need a magic 8 ball to see where this is going. They need to listen to people for a bit that actually play the game. Unfortunatly the community is starting to disintigrate into a bunch of /b/tards and flamers. A bad community alone can kill agame and get it going down the wrong road.

[DiabloMuerto]

All i can say to the OP is so what? Don't get me wrong I get as frustrated as the next guy over healers but in all honesty PvP is not a solo sport. The only time not being able to kill a healer solo really hurts you is if you're trying to cap a console in Ald solo or trying to bomb a door in VS while the heals is defending solo. In any case, that's what the team is for, coordinate and get someone to help you.

 

Killing the healer solo is not a requirement for victory in any WZ I know of. Also, killing a healer isn't required to remove their effectiveness from a fight. As long as you keep them tied up enough so they can't really heal anyone else or focus on stopping your group mates, then that is successful. My healer is only 46 and while I don't die all that often to a single person they certainly can keep me running around so that I can't really focus on keeping my team up.

 

This isn't to say healers might not need some looking at but in PvP the object is to win, not to just kill people. I've been on a healer and had them do the emote "laughs at you" then we take the objective, sure he go his laugh that I couldn't kill him but I distracted him long enough for us to get the objective. I care about the win, not the kills, he can hop around all day heh.

[Kel-vin]

If someone is in full BM gear and outplaying you, they deserve to kill you if you are in quest gear/partial centurion.

 

See though, that's the problem. Gear! Maybe they do deserve to kill that person, but that doesn't make the system and the way it works right.

[Mertissielle]

Where does this notion of "you shouldn't be able to kill a healer 1v1" come from exactly? I can understand that if you're attacking Mr DPS Guy then Captain Healsalot should be able to keep DPS Guy up but when I'm directly attacking a healer with my full toolkit of three interrupts, DoTs and Mortal Strike, why shouldn't I be able to kill them? If you look at my class' abilities, I'm pretty much specifically designed for this purpose after all.

 

And I can eventually whittle them down usually but it takes a while, especially if they have decent gear. Once you have three or four healers in a WZ though, it becomes difficult even for 8 DPS to make any sizeable dent. Ever get your 300k damage medal before your 10 kills medal? Yeah...

 

 

Anyway, to my mind there are three main issues with healing in the game at present:

 

• The main one is that Expertise results in a net bonus to healing when all things are equal since damage and mitigation offset each other. Even if you think it's totally balanced now, it's not scaleable (or, rather, it scales too well).
  
• The second is that in other games healers have a finite amount of resources. Even if it takes forever without making a dent in their health, eventually they will run out of mana. In this game, compounded by the Expertise issue above, small or medium heals can be interwoven pretty much constantly without ever running out. There are also no resource-affecting debuffs which are the usual counter to healing classes - Mana Burn, for example.
  
• The final issue is that interrupts only lock out a single spell rather than the school of magic being cast. Perhaps the least important of the three because, over time, one can learn which to interrupt and which to leave.

 

Now as I say, I'm not too concerned about healers right now because I can kill them eventually, even if it takes a while. However, the way Expertise works simply means that healing will vastly outstrip damage as Expertise increases.

 

As I say, mitigation and damage offset one another if their Expertise values are equal, which makes each individual heal proportionally more powerful. Let's also consider that new gear will likely have additional Endurance. This means that, within a tier or two more of gear, healer Effective Health will get to the point where it will be a significant balance issue. Rather than hit all healers with a giant nerf bat, I'd prefer if Bioware were able to address those scaling issues sooner rather than later. I suspect they won't, however, and we'll end up with a lot of angry healers

[BDutch]

Resource fatigue/draining, and it having a significant impact on a healer's survivability, is a missed mechanic here that would add some depth/complexity to fights. It should be as important as range is to melee. Otherwise you end up with stun/burst being the only thing that matters, (I know it will always matter, but it doesn't have to be the only thing that matters).

 

Saw the same thing in WoW at some point, (no idea how it is now), and the same thing in Rift. I generally don't have a problem with the amount of healing/survivability a class has so much as whether or not it's an endless supply.

[Dhag]

Interrupt is broken. Yes, I can interrupt a healer casting a healing spell, but they just start casting the same spell again immediately after. I use my other interrupt (play vanguard) and interrupt the SAME spell. They re-cast same spell immediately and my interrupts are now on cooldown.

 

I have NO problem with Sorcs who don't cast heals, since interrupts works as intended. Sadly, they don't work for the healing tree and is even less nuisance than pushback (I actually have a sage now).

[Methenu]

I'll preface this with my characters:

 

50 BH: Powertech (Shield spec)

50 SI: Sorcerer (Corruption spec)

42 SW: Marauder (Annihilation spec)

 

My Sorc has insane survivability as a heal spec 1v1. If you can survive the burst damage, you can wear down the opposition with DoTs and instants. Bubble, HoT, channeled heal, AoE HoT, etc. We have a lot of options in the healing department plus mobility and escape possibilities.

 

My Powertech has almost zero chance 1v1 of being able to burn down a good healer. Not enough burst damage to get through the heals. The battle can drag out awhile due to tank survivability, but unless I get a few lucky crits and/or interrupt at the right time, the battle is going to the healer.

 

My Marauder eats healers like popcorn. The constant DoT damage combined with bursts (Annihilate or Ravage if they hold still to do a long cast). Deadly Throw also cuts down the effectiveness of their heals by 20% for 15 seconds. Marauders and I would assume Sentinels are made to kill healers. I don't even have saber throw yet (30m range execute that can only be used when target is at 30% or less health) which is going to add more ka-pow to the mix at 46.

 

Anyway, those are my impressions. Yes, healers have it good, but they are not 'god mode' by any means and CAN be taken down depending on your class, spec and playstyle.

[ShatteredVision]

I could teach you the ways of the force. I won't though. Just play bad some more. Anyone can be beat, healers included. You might have to think during the fight, though. Edited February 22, 2012 by ShatteredVision

[ColdLogic]

Currently exceptional healers that are experts at their class and outplay me in every way are simply unbeatable as an average, slow, uncoordinated, solo melee class....

 

 

Fixed the OP's post.

Edited February 22, 2012 by ColdLogic